Dr. Gho, Hitzig, Cooley, Armani . . there are plenty of docs who fall somewhere in the gray area between honesty and fra_ud. They aren’t going to intentionally wreck your head like a Bosley hair mill but you cannot trust everything they claim to be capable of doing either. Dr. Nigam would not be alone in this.
I’m not sure if all of these were directed at me. For example, I didn’t call Nigam’s lab a “kitchen”. I’m only interested in the serious matters of the apparent deception that Nigam has engaged in on these forums. I also don’t particularly care if his competitors put him down.
Surely people can see that what Nigam himself has done and presented is enough to at the very least raise some very red flags, and that the concerns raised by members of this forum (complete with loads of photographic evidence) are not without merit.
Given his checkered and very unprofessional history of using photoshopped pictures on his website, defending those photos until he realized they were indefensible, and posting deliberately obfuscated photographs here, I think it’s very reasonable to apply a high degree of scrutiny.
We would only be lucky that we had somebody doing so many experiments and sharing the results with us if that person were honest. We have no reason to believe that he is at this stage.
Perhaps the most important of your points is number five. Of course we do want researchers to share information with us. However, we want them to share trustworthy, reliable information. If we can’t trust the information, then it’s absolutely worthless. Has Nigam posted anything at all that demonstrates that his various procedures work at all? Until his procedures are submitted for independent review, we’re getting nothing of value from him. If he had been less deceptive from the beginning, perhaps we could have given him more of the benefit of the doubt, but the benefit has all dried up.
Note for example, that Dr Wesley submitted his piloscopy procedure to an IRB for independent review. I’m not suggesting that Nigam publish papers. Obviously, we are interested in results, and new hair. But if we can’t trust him, what good is it. If he really did somehow manage to do what no other researcher could do, then how could he possibly not take advantage of that by having it verified, and making millions of of it. What he’s suggesting he can do is that revolutionary.
The involvement of Dr. Mwamba, if it pans out, is a good step in the right direction. If Nigam had much sense, he would lay low until those results are in.
Cal, you are absolutely correct that there are different degrees of deception, and Gho, Armani and others have practiced deception to different degrees on that scale. However, rarely do we have someone engage in the sort of ridiculously blatant and artless deception that we’ve seen here.
[quote]1. I think that what Dr. Nigam underestimated the level of stupidity and rudeness he would find at the fori.
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Some of the rudeness is the true and real fr@ud rather than anything Dr. Nigam has done. For example, calling Dr. Nigam’s lab a “kitchen” or calling his machinery a “Pizza Oven” really amounts to fr@ud because I have it on good authority that his lab is genuine and his machines are the real deal.
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So what if one of his competitors put him down? What would you expect from one of his competitors?
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He has posed not one pic that I’ve seen which demonstrates some outlandishly big amount of regrowth. His photos demonstrate modest hair growth is all. Indeed, his photos have me believing that he needs to do more research and try to improve the cell-therapy techniques to improve the results. So to me his photos are not an effort to convince us that he’s growing more than he really is because to me his photos indicate he’s not regrowing enough hair.
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If Dr. Nigam were to do what you want him to do - get his results viewed by independent researchers, submit articles for peer-review and publication then the next time you hear from him will be about 2 years from now and then you will complain that the researchers aren’t sharing info with us often enough.
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Dr. Nigam comes here to share info because he thinks that’s what we want. He thinks we’re all in on finding a cure together and he wants to give us immediate updates. What you want him to do would take result in us having to wait years before we got updates from him and it would slow down his progress too because he would be waiting for peer reviews of each step he takes before proceeding to the next step. That’s what the other researchers are doing and we are always complaining that we wish we could get information from them and that they won’t share information with us. And then we talk about trying to set-up interviews with them because we’re starved for information from them.
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We are lucky that this one guy will do so many experiments and share info with us in real time. That’s what we say we want them all to do.
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You’re just picking on him and you lack the good sense to realize it.
As one of the doctors and researchers he met said, Nigam talks a good talk.
Although I’m not trying to suggest outright that he is one, that’s what good con artists do. We’ve been through this path before, and that’s why people are so sensitive about this issue. I think Nigam severely underestimated the level of critical thinking and rigor on these forums before he started posting.
Given the types of pictures he has posted, both here and on his website, the backlash is entirely expected. There’s a limit to how much we can take too.
You ask a very good question. What researcher in his right mind would show up here time and time again in the face of those attacks. His behavior is totally bizarre for a serious researcher. One very possible answer is, one who is out to gain exposure and draw people to his clinic, to make a quick buck.
Again, I’m not saying that I, or anybody else knows for sure whether Nigam is legit or not, but he certainly hasn’t behaved legitimate in many cases.
If he wants to treated as a legitimate researcher, he should act like one, get his results verified by an independent review board, publish them, and he’ll be one of the most famous cosmetic surgeons on the planet.
[postedby]Originally Posted by Freddie555[/postedby]
His website is shoddy no doubt and he himself admitted to it. As to why he does not fire his webmaster, I don’t know.
But he is definately no con artist. He’s hung around here posting detailed info on what he’s up to, posted (rather lack luster) before & after pictures of his research, posted about his meetings with other doctors & researchers (which those other researchers have verified), posted his medical license, posted evidence of himself meeting other researchers and info on their research before it became common knowledge …and taken ALL manner of abuses from idiots here.
There is surely a limit as to how much one man can take.
Which researcher in their right mind would show up here time and again with the above attacks daily. Certainly not one out for a quick buck.
[postedby]Originally Posted by licht[/postedby]
[postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby][/quote]
Dr. Nigam mostly lost me at photoshopped pics.
The guy demonstrates quite a bit of understanding about the subject and effort but that doesn’t mean he is growing any hair.
I’ve tried to keep an open mind because the standards of acceptable salesmanship may be far different where he’s from. But so far all we have is several cases which were given a lot of fanfare at the outset and then suspiciously weren’t followed up. Not much else. Combine that with the deceptive practices and the picture gets grim.
What means he’s growing hair is the photographic evidence which depict modest regrowth of hair. any reasonable fair-minded person can see that he’s growing a modest amount of hair.
Yeah. That’s a lot worse then stealing people’s money and selling them worthless therapies right ? Can you point me to ONE (!!) happy patient ? I can point you to several failed cases on the other hand.
Ask your sources again and see if they can find if the lab is even his. Cause it’s not, he’s just renting some place.
[quote]
3. So what if one of his competitors put him down? What would you expect from one of his competitors? [/quote]
Not sure what you mean with this.
He hasn’t posted a SINGLE photo that can be considered of ANY evidence of regrowth at all. Some photo’s are obviously photoshopped, in some he changed patients, they’re all of very low quality and he’s using every trick in the book on every single photo (like lighting). How can he get results when he’s even got the theory wrong anyway ? As we now know injecting ‘activated’ stemcells CAN NOT even in theory grow hair, so how would you expect that to happen in practice ? And you do realize he charges $3900 for that specific ‘therapy’, which is not even inclucing travel costs, hotel and accomadation ?
[quote]
5. If Dr. Nigam were to do what you want him to do - get his results viewed by independent researchers, submit articles for peer-review and publication then the next time you hear from him will be about 2 years from now and then you will complain that the researchers aren’t sharing info with us often enough. [/quote]
LOL. So researchers should just stop posting their results in scientific manner ? Yeah that will surely bring us closer to a cure 
[quote]
6. Dr. Nigam comes here to share info because he thinks that’s what we want. [/quote]
No. He comes here to make some buck out of our misery by selling useless treatments to desperate baldies.
[quote]
7. We are lucky that this one guy will do so many experiments and share info with us in real time.[/quote]
Oh really. Then can you tell me ONE thing that we’ve learned from him that we didn’t know yet ? Apart from that just injecting some stemcells obviously won’t work and if you split grafts in half with a knife you damage both parts too much and they’ll both die ?
This the best summary of Dr Nigam I’ve read so far. Totally agree, cal
[quote]Cal, you are absolutely correct that there are different degrees of deception, and Gho, Armani and others have practiced deception to different degrees on that scale. However, rarely do we have someone engage in the sort of ridiculously blatant and artless deception that we’ve seen here.
[postedby]Originally Posted by cal[/postedby]
Dr. Nigam mostly lost me at photoshopped pics.
The guy demonstrates quite a bit of understanding about the subject and effort but that doesn’t mean he is growing any hair.
I’ve tried to keep an open mind because the standards of acceptable salesmanship may be far different where he’s from. But so far all we have is several cases which were given a lot of fanfare at the outset and then suspiciously weren’t followed up. Not much else. Combine that with the deceptive practices and the picture gets grim.[/quote]
And of course we can always count on the dimwitted moron Hairman to support a baseless incredulous attack.
Hey moron (that would be you Hairman) why don’t you start using your brain when you type your posts so you can stop posting/producing evidence that you’re an idiot. Only a buffoon can’t see that there’s regrowth in the pics depicted in the link below:
http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/search.html?search=dr nigam&category=0&ao=and&page=23
The link isn’t going to the exact specific page/post I was refering to so just follow the link and then go page 23 and see the post wherein Dr. Nigam displays black and white beofre and after photos of a man’s crown and note that the after pic displays irrefutable evidence the man’s balding crown has completely filled in.
[quote]This the best summary of Dr Nigam I’ve read so far. Totally agree, cal
Cal, you are absolutely correct that there are different degrees of deception, and Gho, Armani and others have practiced deception to different degrees on that scale. However, rarely do we have someone engage in the sort of ridiculously blatant and artless deception that we’ve seen here.
[postedby]Originally Posted by cal[/postedby]
Dr. Nigam mostly lost me at photoshopped pics.
The guy demonstrates quite a bit of understanding about the subject and effort but that doesn’t mean he is growing any hair.
I’ve tried to keep an open mind because the standards of acceptable salesmanship may be far different where he’s from. But so far all we have is several cases which were given a lot of fanfare at the outset and then suspiciously weren’t followed up. Not much else. Combine that with the deceptive practices and the picture gets grim.
[postedby]Originally Posted by hairman2[/postedby][/quote]
LOL, that’s the quy with the changed mole position. But that’s all good in your book of course. I’m pretty sure these guys are brothers.
One happy customer? Sure? How about that guy in the black and white before and after pics who got his crown completely filled in??? Do you think he’s happy or unhappy? I don’t think we even need to ask him to realize that he’s very VERY happy. What do you honestly think?
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby]
One happy customer? Sure? How about that guy in the black and white before and after pics who got his crown completely filled in??? Do you think he’s happy or unhappy? I don’t think we even need to ask him to realize that he’s very VERY happy. What do you honestly think?[/quote]
Again, he switched patients in that photo. How else could a mole suddenly change position ?
http://drnigams.weebly.com/uploads/2/4/6/8/24682492/5477984.jpg?544
These guys are brothers.
And again, how can he even book a success when he’s got the theory wrong ? Hair does NOT grow by simply injecting stem cells. Nor did anybody but Jahoda succeed at culturing DP cells without losing their follicle inducing ability. Or do you really thing he managed to improve Jahoda’s culturing process to retain gene expression beyond 22% ? Haha. If you believe that you’re even way more delusional than I currently think you are.
Remember that Nigam is using more techniques than Jahoda used. He is using multiple cell techniques at the same time and in repeat injections, and doing so could have an addative effect. Jahoda has not tried this concept. Jahoda tries one technique per experiment.
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by Lindo[/postedby]
And again, how can he even book a success when he’s got the theory wrong ? Hair does NOT grow by simply injecting stem cells. Nor did anybody but Jahoda succeed at culturing DP cells without losing their follicle inducing ability. Or do you really thing he managed to improve Jahoda’s culturing process to retain gene expression beyond 22% ? Haha. If you believe that you’re even way more delusional than I currently think you are.[/quote]
[quote]Remember that Nigam is using more techniques than Jahoda used. He is using multiple cell techniques at the same time and in repeat injections.
[postedby]Originally Posted by Lindo[/postedby]
And again, how can he even book a success when he’s got the theory wrong ? Hair does NOT grow by simply injecting stem cells. Nor did anybody but Jahoda succeed at culturing DP cells without losing their follicle inducing ability. Or do you really thing he managed to improve Jahoda’s culturing process to retain gene expression beyond 22% ? Haha. If you believe that you’re even way more delusional than I currently think you are.
[postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby][/quote]
The ONLY way to biogenerate hair is to do what Jahoda and Tsuji did: stick epethelial cells to DP cells and that’s it, hair will grow. But nobody succeeded yet at expanding DP cells while retaining more than 22% gene expression. And how do you think dr Nigam managed the angle of the new hairs, LOL. He never even talked about that ! Tsuji used a very smart way of guiding the hairs along some small lines, to get the angle correct and prevent ingrowth of the hair and cyst forming. Do you think Nigam did that too ? LOL.
The only results Nigam got were from switching patients and photoshopping.
Will you prove it please? You’re making an accusation and the only honorable thing for you to do is prove your allegations are true. Please prove he switched patients in the black and white before and afters I referenced. If you prove it I will admit that you proved it.
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by Lindo[/postedby]
LOL, that’s the quy with the changed mole position. But that’s all good in your book of course. I’m pretty sure these guys are brothers.[/quote]
[quote]Will you prove it please? You’re making an accusation and the only honorable thing for you to do is prove your allegations are true. Please prove he switched patients in the black and white before and afters I referenced. If you prove it I will admit that you proved it.
[postedby]Originally Posted by Lindo[/postedby]
LOL, that’s the quy with the changed mole position. But that’s all good in your book of course. I’m pretty sure these guys are brothers.
[postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby][/quote]
It’s already been proven, man. Look at the moles: http://drnigams.weebly.com/uploads/2/4/6/8/24682492/5477984.jpg?544
They both have one only in different positions. Moles obviously don’t change position like that, lol. And it also turned out via photo header analysis that they were taken only 2 months apart, instead of the 7 months Nigam claimed.
This is not the same guy. They have quite a few similarites too though, that’s why I think they’re brothers.
[quote]. If you prove it I will admit that you proved it.
[postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby][/quote]
Hehe somehow I highly doubt that 
Talking to you about Nigam is like trying to convince a religious fanatic that god doesn’t exist. Tons of them believe the earth is only 5000 years old, as dictated by the bible. Whatever proof you show them that they’re wrong, they won’t admit it. People WANT to believe, exactly like you WANT to believe in Nigam. Logic and reason don’t matter anymore to guys like you.
First of all these pictures are not taken at the exact same depth and angle. The moles you’re comparing might not even be the same moles. The different angle/depth of the photos could result in two different moles showing up in the two different pictures.
For example, if you change where you are standing when you look at a glob the angle you see it from changes and you will see different landscape. Or if you stand in the exact same place when you look at the globe both times but you tilt the globe a little bit differently and have the globe slightly different distances from you then you will see different landscapes.
The similarities between these two men are profound. I’m not convinced that they aren’t the same man. Look at the nose. Look down near the bottom of the nose - he has two dark lines in both pics and the dark lines look the same. Look at the shading under the eyes starting in the duct - the shading is beyond similar. It’s the same. In one pic where his face is smaller I’m not even sure the arrow is pointing to a mole. It looks like it could be a pimple or something. The ear in both pics have a VERY slight bump near the top of the outer rim at the same point in both pics. It looks like there’s a minute scar at the edge of the eyebrow on the inside of the eyebrow (the side of the eyebrow where the nose bridge is but where the eyebrow begins not at the nose bridge). These men could easily be the same men and the only reason for you seeing a difference in the alleged mole could be due to the pics showing slightly different skin (due to different angles and depth/size) and the different coloration in the pics. In one picture the darker coloration could make that mole more visible whereas in the other picture the combination of the picture being lighter colored plus the different angles and depth of the picture (creating different face sizes and making different areas visible and invisible) could all be working together to make the mole, or whatever it is, less visible and what you are calling a mole in one of the pics may not even be the same thing, and it may not be a mole in at least one of the pics.
The angles look different in more than one way. It looks like in the larger faced pic the head is turned a little more and facing downward a tiny bit more. This changes the view.
In both pics by the nostril near the bridge there is the same small round brown spot.
You have definitely not proved these are two different men, and of course it’s clear why you have to say they are brothers because you yourself know that there are some striking similarities, minute stuff, in these two photos.
I would not call Dr. Nigam a fr@ud on the basis of these two photos and anyone who does is playing fast and loose with the truth. It’s very irresponsible, rude, and paranoid even to call Dr. Nigam a fr@ud on the basis of this evidence.
Up near the top of his noise, just a little under the bridge, the skin has a rectangular looking shape that’s slightly darker than the rest of the skin and that feature is in both pics and it looks like the EXACT same shape.
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby]
What means he’s growing hair is the photographic evidence which depict modest regrowth of hair. any reasonable fair-minded person can see that he’s growing a modest amount of hair.[/quote]
Of the pictures he has shown, we can categorize them as: obvious, blatant photoshopping, very suspicious pictures, with evidence of his deception in the photo headers, moving moles, etc, and a few pictures where the regrowth is nothing more than regular FUE could achieve, yet he claims that it is as a result of his experimental procedures.
Given the amount of shadiness he has already engaged in, it would take an enormous leap of faith from any reasonable, fair-minded person to believe that this guy is for real.
I would say the same thing about you Lindo. You might want to try getting a globe and putting it in front of you at a desk. Tilt it a little bit and watch how the visible landscape you see changes. Tilt it more than one way (up plus to one side or the other) and watch how dramatic the view can change. Take a picture of it 6 inches from you and 1 foot from you and see how that changes the view of what you see. Do all of these things together - tilt it up, tilt it to one side, and move different distances from the globe and take pictures with these slight changes and watch how your view changes. And then add different flash coloring and see what happens. The different pics could be striking but it would still be the same globe.
I’m surprised you question the existence of God. You don’t seem smart enough to realize that it’s doubtful that God exists.
[quote]. If you prove it I will admit that you proved it.
[postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby]
[postedby]Originally Posted by Lindo[/postedby]
Hehe somehow I highly doubt that Talking to you about Nigam is like trying to convince a religious fanatic that god doesn’t exist. Tons of them believe the earth is only 5000 years old, as dictated by the bible. Whatever proof you show them that they’re wrong, they won’t admit it. People WANT to believe, exactly like you WANT to believe in Nigam. Logic and reason don’t matter anymore to guys like you.[/quote]
Jahoda readily admits that he did not use growth factors, but Dr. Nigam does. Jahoda also uses one technique at a time whereas Nigam combines different cellular techniques/cells. Nigam also uses Sonic Hedge Hog and Jahoda has not done that. You don’t know what combining all of this stuff will do. Nobody’s done it except Nigam as far as I know so for you to say that doing so won’t grow hair is really nothing but an assumption on your part. And then there’s the fact that Nigam uses repeat injections.
And then there’s the fact that Aderans studies show some regrowth so Aderans has also grown some hair using cellular treatment and Nigam does everything Aderans plus adds more things into the mix.
[quote]Remember that Nigam is using more techniques than Jahoda used. He is using multiple cell techniques at the same time and in repeat injections.
[postedby]Originally Posted by Lindo[/postedby]
And again, how can he even book a success when he’s got the theory wrong ? Hair does NOT grow by simply injecting stem cells. Nor did anybody but Jahoda succeed at culturing DP cells without losing their follicle inducing ability. Or do you really thing he managed to improve Jahoda’s culturing process to retain gene expression beyond 22% ? Haha. If you believe that you’re even way more delusional than I currently think you are.
[postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby]
[postedby]Originally Posted by Lindo[/postedby]
The ONLY way to biogenerate hair is to do what Jahoda and Tsuji did: stick epethelial cells to DP cells and that’s it, hair will grow. But nobody succeeded yet at expanding DP cells while retaining more than 22% gene expression. And how do you think dr Nigam managed the angle of the new hairs, LOL. He never even talked about that ! Tsuji used a very smart way of guiding the hairs along some small lines, to get the angle correct and prevent ingrowth of the hair and cyst forming. Do you think Nigam did that too ? LOL.
The only results Nigam got were from switching patients and photoshopping.[/quote]