MORE INFORMATIONS ON THIS NEW STUDY ABOUT FOR INTERCYTEX? SOME IDEA WHEN IT LEAVES? THANKS.
Next week 
» MORE INFORMATIONS ON THIS NEW STUDY ABOUT FOR INTERCYTEX? SOME IDEA WHEN
» IT LEAVES? THANKS.
Maybe i have a nice news, but i have to wait for post it…
My opinion is that the in vitro coltivation is the FIRST generation of HM, that icx want release before the end of the study about TRC… trc seems to be the SECOND generation of HM, the definitive futurist non-invasive solution…
first generation, is a cooperative work between hair transplant doctors and hair moltiplicator scientists… so remember the contracts between ADERANS (with Bosley) and ICX, and the hair conferences with transplant doctors…
**
i don’t know nobody that “work inside”, i speak only for personal rational opinions, so consider this post like a personal and not sure consideration…
» » MORE INFORMATIONS ON THIS NEW STUDY ABOUT FOR INTERCYTEX? SOME IDEA
» WHEN
» » IT LEAVES? THANKS.
»
» Maybe i have a nice news, but i have to wait for post it…
»
» My opinion is that the in vitro coltivation is the FIRST generation of HM,
» that icx want release before the end of the study about TRC… trc seems to
» be the SECOND generation of HM, the definitive futurist non-invasive
» solution…
»
» *
» first generation, is a cooperative work between hair transplant doctors
» and hair moltiplicator scientists… so remember the contracts between
» ADERANS (with Bosley) and ICX, and the hair conferences with transplant
» doctors…
»
» **
» i don’t know nobody that “work inside”, i speak only for personal rational
» opinions, so consider this post like a personal and not sure
» consideration…
Don`t they have to start a new study for this hair cloning procedure? So it seems not logical that they can release it before trc…
» » » MORE INFORMATIONS ON THIS NEW STUDY ABOUT FOR INTERCYTEX? SOME IDEA
» » WHEN
» » » IT LEAVES? THANKS.
» »
» » Maybe i have a nice news, but i have to wait for post it…
» »
» » My opinion is that the in vitro coltivation is the FIRST generation of
» HM,
» » that icx want release before the end of the study about TRC… trc seems
» to
» » be the SECOND generation of HM, the definitive futurist non-invasive
» » solution…
» »
» » *
» » first generation, is a cooperative work between hair transplant doctors
» » and hair moltiplicator scientists… so remember the contracts between
» » ADERANS (with Bosley) and ICX, and the hair conferences with transplant
» » doctors…
» »
» » **
» » i don’t know nobody that “work inside”, i speak only for personal
» rational
» » opinions, so consider this post like a personal and not sure
» » consideration…
»
» Don`t they have to start a new study for this hair cloning procedure? So
» it seems not logical that they can release it before trc…
It’s clearly that this is a step before the TRC; TRC is better… this technique maybe is born around the research for the trc… is in the middle, from transplant to the perfect HM… Maybe they think about a release of this first solution before the complete study of the trc Trc need still time and research, it means years… In the protocol of vitro coltivation they say that this technique is working, so is possible that they have done trials without pubblic reports…
My opinion is that the in vitro coltivation is the first generation of HM, the second is the TRC…
» it seems not logical that they can release it before trc…
» It’s clearly that this is a step before the TRC; TRC is better… this
» technique maybe is born around the research for the trc… is in the
» middle, from transplant to the perfect HM… Maybe they think about a
» release of this first solution before the complete study of the trc
» Trc need still time and research, it means years… In the protocol of
» vitro coltivation they say that this technique is working, so is possible
» that they have done trials without pubblic reports…
I appreciate your contributions to the forum, but it’s very obvious you’ve only been following HM a short time and don’t know about the history of ICX and TRC, or Aderans, or any of their predecessors.
ICX-TRC is NOT better than the in vitro procedure, because the in vitro procedure allows them to insert hairs much more precisely and allows them guarantee a certain number of new hairs, while TRC does not allow them to do either of these things.
The in vitro procedure will allow them to guarantee both the number and positioning of new hair follicles. They will literally be able to say, we will put exactly 5000 new follicles in this area, we will arrange them exactly just so, and we will tell you exactly what their position and orientation will be.
The injection procedure cannot even remotely ensure any of that.
Therefore the in vitro procedure will be vastly better than the injection procedure. The in vitro procedure is a quantum leap in technology beyond the injection procedure for a lot of reasons.
The in vitro procedure is to the injection procedure as digital TV is to analog TV.
I and many others here have followed ICX-TRC and Aderans Research Institute for a long time, very closely, and we have read all their public documents, press releases, patents and reports, as well as long interviews with Dr. Kemp and Dr. Washenik, and many others involved in researching HM, plus extensive press coverage, all in English, for years.
The in vitro procedure is, in practical terms, a “second generation” form of HM. It works much differently from the injection procedure, but practically speaking, it’s a more advanced version of what we all call “hair multiplication”. The fact that a surgeon’s talents are required to implant the new follicles is not really a drawback; it’s a great advantage, because it provides the accuracy and precision of HT along with the theoretically unlimited hair supply of HM.
In fact, with the in vitro procedure, the hair supply is even more unlimited than with injections, because with injection-based HM, there is no guarantee that any given injection will produce hair – it’s a crapshoot. There will be problems with yield and different patients will respond differently to injections. With the in vitro procedure, all the new follicles are grown in the laboratory first, even before they’re inserted into the scalp. So an exact number of new hairs, and an “unlimited” supply, can be virtually guaranteed to each patient!
By the way, none of this is any mystery to us. We know exactly what procedure Intercytex is currently testing in clinical trials – they have described in many, many times, in public documents, and they have specifically told us, and their investors, and the regulatory authorities, that it is the injection procedure and only the injection procedure.
So, the truth is exactly the opposite of what you are saying, and in fact, what you are saying is diametrically opposed to the truth, and couldn’t be more untrue. It is a complete 180 degree reversal of the truth.
The only procedure that ICX currently has in human clinical trials is the injection procedure. They started seriously developing this procedure FIRST, before the in vitro procedure. With respect to official, government regulatory agencies like MHRA in the United Kingdom, only the injection procedure is currently under official review in trials and that means that it will reach the market first. The in vitro procedure is not even in human clinical trials yet, so please tell me, how will it reach the market first, in your view?
» The in vitroprocedure is not even in human clinical trials yet,so please tell me,
» how will it reach the market first, in your view?
Hi John… the answer of this question is inside your same speech!
In vitro could be released before TRC, for this clearly fact:
» with injection-based HM, there is
» no guarantee that any given injection will produce hair – it’s a
» crapshoot. There will be problems with yield and different patients
» will respond differently to injections. With the in vitro procedure, all
» the new follicles are grown in the laboratory first, even before they’re
» inserted into the scalp. So an exact number of new hairs, and an
» “unlimited” supply, can be virtually guaranteed to each patient!
What means that? Means that TRC is a more complex technique, more refined, more “simply” but at the same time more difficult to do, and if you compare this “state-of-art” biotech solution with a rude and 30 (or more) years old techinque like the transplant, needed for the in vitro coltivation, you can logically understand that now, is more simply make an in vitro transplant than a perfect cell injection! The techinque for the in vitro is already here, is working by a lot of years.
The trc cell injection, is a research that want change the classical technique, is a work that run to the technique of the future medical treatments (like others biotech,laser,dna ecc ecc), so this still require study and research, only because when this will be ready, this will become the perfect operation, simply, fast and perfect… so…
in your mind, what is more simply:
-make a transplant, a surgical operation, make rude bots in a head.
-or make simply injection of biological material that automatically born and automatically change your skin texture etc?
This is the reason that make me sure about the release of the in vitro before the TRC…
an hair transplant with in vitro hair could be possible tomorrow… a robotical cellular injection is the future…
It seems like you are not reading what I wrote, and you are not reading anything published by ICX.
You are just assuming that because YOU THINK a certain procedure is more advanced, it will be released later.
In fact, the very procedure you believe is more advanced (the injection procedure) is exactly the one which is TECHNICALLY MUCH LESS ADVANCED.
Are you even reading what I’m writing?
The in vitro technique IS NOT ALREADY THERE FOR 30 YEARS.
The in-vitro procedure is NOT A HAIR TRANSPLANT!!!
Also, you are completely ignoring the FACT that they can only release a procedure that has finished human clinical trials first. This is not just someone’s opinion. This is a legal and regulatory fact.
SPQR, do you live in Rome? I visit Italy and Europe all the time, I just returned to the USA from Italy (1.5 weeks ago), and I will be going there again in mid-November. I speak only poor Italian, but I’d be glad to discuss this with you on a much more personal basis.
You are making a lot of excited, enthusiastic ASSUMPTIONS about ICX-TRC which aren’t based on even the slimmest facts, announcements from the company, or official documents, but rather on your own intuition and sketchy ideas about HM. And you’re assuming that’s all true, just because it makes sense to you. Big, big mistake.
Intercytex has been giving us first-hand information about this for years. Have you read any of it?
» It seems like you are not reading what I wrote, and you are not reading
» anything published by ICX.
»
» You are just assuming that because YOU THINK a certain procedure is more
» advanced, it will be released later.
»
» In fact, the very procedure you believe is more advanced (the injection
» procedure) is exactly the one which is TECHNICALLY MUCH LESS ADVANCED.
»
» Are you even reading what I’m writing?
»
» The in vitro technique IS NOT ALREADY THERE FOR 30 YEARS.
»
» The in-vitro procedure is NOT A HAIR TRANSPLANT!!!
»
» Also, you are completely ignoring the FACT that they can only release a
» procedure that has finished human clinical trials first. This is not
» just someone’s opinion. This is a legal and regulatory fact.
»
» SPQR, do you live in Rome? I visit Italy and Europe all the time, I just
» returned to the USA from Italy (1.5 weeks ago), and I will be going there
» again in mid-November. I speak only poor Italian, but I’d be glad to
» discuss this with you on a much more personal basis.
»
» You are making a lot of excited, enthusiastic ASSUMPTIONS about ICX-TRC
» which aren’t based on even the slimmest facts, announcements from the
» company, or official documents, but rather on your own intuition and
» sketchy ideas about HM. And you’re assuming that’s all true, just
» because it makes sense to you. Big, big mistake.
»
» Intercytex has been giving us first-hand information about this for years.
» Have you read any of it?
Michael McHugh is a co-ordinator for the Farjo Clinic.I remember reading a post by him on one of the other hair loss forums.
In the post he wrote he was stating that they was cloning hair follicles and planting them with success,I think - anyone else read this,if so what forum.
» The in-vitro procedure is NOT A HAIR TRANSPLANT!!!
John, i read you and you read me… but sure you don’t have read the patent of what we are speaking about! It’s clear that in vitro is not a transplant, but the scientists are not multiplicating hair in vitro for have joy time, the in vitro coltivation is needed for give an illimitated hair transplant donor! This invention addresses one of the problems of current hair transplantation techniques that there is a limit to the available donor hair. The total number of human scalp hairs is fixed after birth. Similarly the donor hair source for an Alopecia patient is restricted. As hair transplantation does not create any new hair, it simply transfer hairs from one location to another, there is a need for a method of producing further hairs.
Surprisingly, we have found that a partially formed follicle structure (proto-hair) generated in vitro will also develop into a mature hair when transplanted
The in vitro tech is sure for the transplant business! Is the solution before the release of trc, i think that is clear! Only beacuse when the TRC is out, nobody need a transplants! (maybe the doctors of transplant, but with other techinque, so if in vitro come out for the hair transplant, and trc is the next step, in this sitaution the transpl become useless!)
» Also, you are completely ignoring the FACT that they can only release a
» procedure that has finished human clinical trials first. This is not
» just someone’s opinion. This is a legal and regulatory fact.
Yes, and at the same time ICX is a PRIVATE company, so they can do all the study that they wont without say nothing to the mass… (sure in respect of law)
» SPQR, do you live in Rome? I visit Italy and Europe all the time, I just
» returned to the USA from Italy (1.5 weeks ago), and I will be going there
» again in mid-November. I speak only poor Italian, but I’d be glad to
» discuss this with you on a much more personal basis.
Yes, i’m frome Rome! Nice to meet you if i’m in rome when you come!
» » The in-vitro procedure is NOT A HAIR TRANSPLANT!!!
» John, i read you and you read me… but sure you don’t have read the
» patent of what we are speaking about! It’s clear that in vitro is not a
» transplant, but the scientists are not multiplicating hair in vitro for
» have joy time, the in vitro coltivation is needed for give an illimitated
» hair transplant donor!
I know that. That is exactly what I’m saying.
» of current hair transplantation techniques that there is a limit to the
» available donor hair. The total number of human scalp hairs is fixed after
» birth. Similarly the donor hair source for an Alopecia patient is
» restricted. As hair transplantation does not create any new hair, it
» simply transfer hairs from one location to another, there is a need for a
» method of producing further hairs.
» Surprisingly, we have found that a partially formed follicle
» structure (proto-hair) generated in vitro will also develop into a mature
» hair when transplanted
» The in vitro tech is sure for the transplant business!
Yes, but the procedure itself is not a hair transplant procedure, because the most important thing that characterizes this is NOT THE INSERTION OF THE HAIRS (that is incidental). The most important thing is how the hairs are developed, and the fact that they’re developed from dissociated, mulipliable cells which are harvested from the patient’s scalp.
The implantation/transplantation aspect is just an added benefit – the ability to now deliver the follicles into the scalp in a more precise and predictable way than “cell therapy” (injection) HM. Cell therapy (injection) HM was developed many years ago, principally by Dr. Gho, but he wasn’t successful in perfecting it for commercialization, so his HM business failed.
But my point is that injection HM is actually the older procedure, not follicles grown in vitro.
Follicles grown in vitro for surgical implantation is the NEWER AND MORE ADVANCED procedure which heretofore had never been perfected by anyone, but according to Intercytex, they have now perfected this or at least developed it to the point where they think it can be commercialized.
ok, your point is respectable, my is different, but no problems… we can only wait some official news for know more about the situation…
» Yes, and at the same time ICX is a PRIVATE company, so they can do all the
» study that they wont without say nothing to the mass… (sure in respect of
» law)
That’s not really true. They can do all the studies they want, as long as they’re legal and NOT ON HUMAN BEINGS.
In order for them to test this on human beings, they have to go through a regulatory authority like the FDA (in the USA) or the MHRA (in the UK), and get official approval, and that fact will always be in the public domain. The scientific details can be kept confidential, but the fact that the official clinical trials are being done, is by law, public information. And most of the time, a public company like Intercytex wants to, and has a strong motivation to, announce that information publicly. Intercytex has a track record of announcing ALL HUMAN CLINICAL TRIALS publicly. Why would they not to it? They’re a public company and this kind of thing boosts the value of their stock.
In Italy, the rules are a little bit different. There are subtle but important differences in the way Italian businesses work. Most Italian businesses, even big businesses, are privately held or family-held. Even big Italian businesses which are publicly traded on the stock market, still operate in some respects like privately-held corporations, and are more secretive. The Italian regulatory regime is also not as transparent as those in English-speaking countries. This is just a fact.
for close the speech, i repeat my opinion:
TRC is the technique that in future will make the end of the classic transplants, so if the in vitro coltivation is a study that need the transplant for become useful, for a logical reasoning, in vitro coltivation will be released before the TRC…
I think that this is the more logical statement… everybody are free to think it different…
» ok, your point is respectable, my is different, but no problems… we can
» only wait some official news for know more about the situation…
OK. When I’m in Italy around 20 November, you can call me on my TIM mobile phone, 39 33 4830 0169. I will be in the north of Italy.
» for close the speech, i repeat my opinion:
» TRC is the technique that in future will make the end of the classic
» transplants, so if the in vitro coltivation is a study that need the
» transplant for become useful, for a logical reasoning, in vitro colt. will
» be released before the TRC…
No. Your thinking is reversed exactly 180 degrees from reality.
TRC is NOT THE ULTIMATE TREATMENT.
TRC and cell injections, in general, have problems because of what is called “YIELD”.
When you get an injection, they cannot guarantee that that injection will produce new hair. The yield is less than 100%. It will vary a lot among patients.
It is only by virtue of doing a lot of injections over a single area, that they can be sure that some hair will grow.
It is like a farmer putting seeds on a field. The farmer cannot guarantee that every single seed will produce a plant.
You may get 1000 injections in a certain area, but only 300 of those injections might produce hairs; the other 700 injections might produce NOTHING.
This is a basic, fundamental problem with injection-type HM.
With in vitro HM you don’t have that problem.
Why would this person bullshit?
It’s all hotting up again on this subject, the amount of interest generated is unbelievable. Although I hasten to add that I am not directly involved in this, I do have a closer link via Dr Farjo of course. At the moment phase 2 is continuing and more volunteers have been added to the program. However, I do know there have been some exciting developments. At the recent International Hair Research conference in Vancouver (where Dr Nilofer Farjo was invited speaker), Intercytex demonstrated growing hair follicles in the lab out of the multiplied cells (cloned cells). Dr Farjo says it’s exciting because pending further research and trials it could mean the future is about planting hairs produced out of cloned cells rather than simply planting cells. He added that this would potentially make growth and aesthetics far more predictable.
I hope this adds a bit of light.
Mick Mchugh Patient coordinator for Drs. Bessam and Nilofer of the Farjo Clinic in England
See link
http://hair-restoration-info.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1466060861/m/4321018633?r=7041028633#7041028633
» Why would this person bullshit?
»
» It’s all hotting up again on this subject, the amount of interest
» generated is unbelievable. Although I hasten to add that I am not directly
» involved in this, I do have a closer link via Dr Farjo of course. At the
» moment phase 2 is continuing and more volunteers have been added to the
» program. However, I do know there have been some exciting developments. At
» the recent International Hair Research conference in Vancouver (where Dr
» Nilofer Farjo was invited speaker), Intercytex demonstrated
» growing hair follicles in the lab out of the multiplied cells (cloned
» cells). Dr Farjo says it’s exciting because pending further
» research and trials it could mean the future is about planting hairs
» produced out of cloned cells rather than simply planting cells. He added
» that this would potentially make growth and aesthetics far more
» predictable.
» I hope this adds a bit of light.
»
» Mick Mchugh Patient coordinator for Drs. Bessam and Nilofer of the Farjo
» Clinic in England
»
» See link
»
» http://hair-restoration-info.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1466060861/m/4321018633?r=7041028633#7041028633
Excuse me, but who said any of this was bullshit? I sure didn’t.
And I’m not denying that Intercytex actually has physically grown the hair follicles in vitro and have actually implanted them into the skin of at least one real, live human. It would actually stand to reason that they have. And this is probably what Mick McHugh is talking about.
But that’s different from conducting official clinical trials.
Since they’re implanting follicles that have been grown from cells in a lab, this is similar to injection-based HM (in the sense of using cells and cell cultures) and therefore it would almost certainly require officially-approved human clinical trials. That is, Phase I, Phase II, and maybe Phase III – all before it is approved for commercial use.
But there is no record anywhere in Intercytex’s statements that they are doing official clinical trials of this in vitro procedure for the MHRA. Tell me where they have announced this.
By contrast, they HAVE announced that they are doing clinical trials of TRC, which is an injection procedure, not an in vitro cultivation procedure.
There’s a big difference between doing the in vitro follicle procedure on 1 or 2 human beings, and having clinical trials. Intercytex could easily get away with doing the in vitro procedure on 1 or 2 human beings (as Dr. Kemp had his own scalp injected with cells before the official clinical trials for TRC even started). A publicly-traded company in the UK cannot get away with doing secret human clinical trials of a procedure like this. We would be seeing news of the trials all over the UK media.
In order to have human clinical trials – which I’m sure will be REQUIRED, for commercial approval of this – they’d have to go through the MHRA first, and apply, and would have to have the application for trials granted, and this would all be public record, mentioned all over the media, in ICX press releases, on their website, in newspaper articles, etc., etc., etc.
Where is it?
» Why would this person bullshit?
»
» It’s all hotting up again on this subject, the amount of interest
» generated is unbelievable. Although I hasten to add that I am not directly
» involved in this, I do have a closer link via Dr Farjo of course. At the
» moment phase 2 is continuing and more volunteers have been added to the
» program. However, I do know there have been some exciting developments. At
» the recent International Hair Research conference in Vancouver (where Dr
» Nilofer Farjo was invited speaker), Intercytex demonstrated
» growing hair follicles in the lab out of the multiplied cells (cloned
» cells). Dr Farjo says it’s exciting because pending further
» research and trials it could mean the future is about planting hairs
» produced out of cloned cells rather than simply planting cells. He added
» that this would potentially make growth and aesthetics far more
» predictable.
» I hope this adds a bit of light.
»
» Mick Mchugh Patient coordinator for Drs. Bessam and Nilofer of the Farjo
» Clinic in England
»
» See link
»
» http://hair-restoration-info.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1466060861/m/4321018633?r=7041028633#7041028633
Very interesting, thank’s for this link baldie…
John, it’s only a TRANSPLANT, the hairs before the implants are checked, if they are sure that this hairs are like a normal hair, they don’t need any authorization…
Baldie, that interview is essentially the exact same interview, word-for-word, as an interview with Dr. Kemp that appeared here on HairSite well over a year ago. Maybe David can find the interview. I don’t remember the NHS coverage question being asked, but other than that, the wording is very similar – in fact, for the question about direction, it is practically 100% word-for-word the same, and JB and I have already discussed the possibility that when Dr. Kemp gave that answer in the original interview, he didn’t think about his answer before he gave it.