Gho offering a 50 graft proof session

Stem cell; cell based hair therapy
41

» » » » » » Checked the HSI website today and noticed something new under
» » rates.
» » » » Gho
» » » » » is
» » » » » » now offering 50 grafts for 500 euros as a proof session, next
» to
» » » this
» » » » » rate
» » » » » » was the word “Proef”. This is Dutch for proof/test as far as I
» » » » believe.
» » » » » I
» » » » » » thought this was interesting. Any takers!!
» » » » »
» » » » » A sucker born every minute…
» » » » »
» » » » » Some unscrupulous mining companies used to ‘salt’ the core
» samples
» » to
» » » » show
» » » » » higher concentrations of the mineral (e.g gold) in the core -
» they
» » » » would
» » » » » simply put in gold in the core sample pulled out of the ground to
» » » show
» » » » » higher concentrations of the deposit.
» » » » »
» » » » » How can anyone be sure Gho doesn’t transplant a hair from the
» back
» » of
» » » » the
» » » » » head instead of a HM hair? is it possible that he could ‘salt’
» the
» » » » » samples…
» » » » »
» » » » » This forum doesn’t need to collect 500Euro to prove Gho’s
» » procedure.
» » » » Gho
» » » » » should do this procedure under strict supervision on controlled
» » » » patients
» » » » » and environment at his cost to prove the concept.
» » » » »
» » » » » Wouldn’t it be funny if 10 of the 1000 HM hairs were actually
» » » original
» » » » » hair from the back of the head thus making people bele3ive there
» » was
» » » » some
» » » » » sort of success rate. I"m not saying Gho is doing this ,but how
» can
» » » » anyone
» » » » » be sure of the procedure if it’s not controlled by an INDEPENDENT
» » 3rd
» » » » » party.
» » » » »
» » » » » if anyone can do it, it will be ADERANS
» » » »
» » » » that is precisely what we would like to find out.
» » »
» » » Exactly and 500 Euros are a small fee for finding the truth and end a
» » for
» » » my opinion too long discussion.
» » »
» » » And as i stated before i would gladly be accompanied by someone from
» » this
» » » forum, i dont care.
» »
» » Exactly lets just get it done and stop talking about what if this and
» what
» » if that. A spokesperson for the forum should contact Dr Gho directly
» and
» » tell him of what we are looking for. If he agrees then we can go about
» » selecting someone to go and sorting out finance. But please lets stop
» » talking about it at this stage. Some people think he is a complete liar
» » some think he is a genius. Everyone has had their say on what they
» think
» » now lets just get actual documented proof.
»
»
» So guys iam waiting, are we gonna do this or what?
»
» Iam absolutely ready to go

Leroy contact him directly about this explaining everything and see how he reacts to it and we can take it from there. i will back this to should he agree to it

42

» » » » » » » Checked the HSI website today and noticed something new under
» » » rates.
» » » » » Gho
» » » » » » is
» » » » » » » now offering 50 grafts for 500 euros as a proof session, next
» » to
» » » » this
» » » » » » rate
» » » » » » » was the word “Proef”. This is Dutch for proof/test as far as
» I
» » » » » believe.
» » » » » » I
» » » » » » » thought this was interesting. Any takers!!
» » » » » »
» » » » » » A sucker born every minute…
» » » » » »
» » » » » » Some unscrupulous mining companies used to ‘salt’ the core
» » samples
» » » to
» » » » » show
» » » » » » higher concentrations of the mineral (e.g gold) in the core -
» » they
» » » » » would
» » » » » » simply put in gold in the core sample pulled out of the ground
» to
» » » » show
» » » » » » higher concentrations of the deposit.
» » » » » »
» » » » » » How can anyone be sure Gho doesn’t transplant a hair from the
» » back
» » » of
» » » » » the
» » » » » » head instead of a HM hair? is it possible that he could ‘salt’
» » the
» » » » » » samples…
» » » » » »
» » » » » » This forum doesn’t need to collect 500Euro to prove Gho’s
» » » procedure.
» » » » » Gho
» » » » » » should do this procedure under strict supervision on controlled
» » » » » patients
» » » » » » and environment at his cost to prove the concept.
» » » » » »
» » » » » » Wouldn’t it be funny if 10 of the 1000 HM hairs were actually
» » » » original
» » » » » » hair from the back of the head thus making people bele3ive
» there
» » » was
» » » » » some
» » » » » » sort of success rate. I"m not saying Gho is doing this ,but how
» » can
» » » » » anyone
» » » » » » be sure of the procedure if it’s not controlled by an
» INDEPENDENT
» » » 3rd
» » » » » » party.
» » » » » »
» » » » » » if anyone can do it, it will be ADERANS
» » » » »
» » » » » that is precisely what we would like to find out.
» » » »
» » » » Exactly and 500 Euros are a small fee for finding the truth and end
» a
» » » for
» » » » my opinion too long discussion.
» » » »
» » » » And as i stated before i would gladly be accompanied by someone
» from
» » » this
» » » » forum, i dont care.
» » »
» » » Exactly lets just get it done and stop talking about what if this and
» » what
» » » if that. A spokesperson for the forum should contact Dr Gho directly
» » and
» » » tell him of what we are looking for. If he agrees then we can go
» about
» » » selecting someone to go and sorting out finance. But please lets stop
» » » talking about it at this stage. Some people think he is a complete
» liar
» » » some think he is a genius. Everyone has had their say on what they
» » think
» » » now lets just get actual documented proof.
» »
» »
» » So guys iam waiting, are we gonna do this or what?
» »
» » Iam absolutely ready to go
»
» Leroy contact him directly about this explaining everything and see how he
» reacts to it and we can take it from there. i will back this to should he
» agree to it

if it wasnt a long distance call 4 me ide contact him & tell em to fuc|< himself

43

Leeroy, where are you located? We should see if another HairSite member lives in your city. Also, would you mind contacting Gho on our behalf given that you are closest to him and also the most likely candidate for the test? Perhaps the best message would be to explain to him there are a large number of people interested in his HST technique but, understandably, are cautious. We therefore like to do a test case for the benefit of many interested parties, which if successful, will naturally result in more publicity for his clinic.

44

Leeroy,

I am way too far away from Gho’s clinic to be of any use. I sent them a few e-mails, but since none of them were regarding a consultation, I haven’t gotten any replies.

If you can somehow contact a person that knows what they are talking about (i.e. Dr. Gho or an HST affiliate), I’ll back this experiment in any way I can.

Ask them for significant proof (i.e. high-quality photos of regrowth in extraction and recipient sites/a significantly balding person being brought back to NW1 or NW2) and ask if you can be a test dummy.

45

» Leeroy,
»
» I am way too far away from Gho’s clinic to be of any use. I sent them a
» few e-mails, but since none of them were regarding a consultation, I
» haven’t gotten any replies.
»
» If you can somehow contact a person that knows what they are talking about
» (i.e. Dr. Gho or an HST affiliate), I’ll back this experiment in any way I
» can.
»
» Ask them for significant proof (i.e. high-quality photos of regrowth in
» extraction and recipient sites/a significantly balding person being brought
» back to NW1 or NW2) and ask if you can be a test dummy.

OK, just got an email from a former Gho patient. He is a little shy and doesn’t want to send photos, and English is also not his first language, but here is a summary of what he said (I am posting only an excerpt of what he said as per his request):

  • He has had two sessions - one in 2008, one in 2009, and going for one in July this year (sessions have to be spaced at least 9 months apart, but preferably 12)
  • He was a NW4 before any treatment
  • He did measure donor regrowth during the first session and estimates that 75-80% of the grafts grew back, which he was happy with. He did not measure recipient growth but said that there was obvious recipient growth as he could see it
  • He did not measure donor regrowth during the second session. He was too busy
  • His view is that HST does work and plans to get more done for density. However, he mentioned two drawbacks. Firstly, the process is very time consuming and Gho can only really do about 1000+ grafts per session (effectively 1000 grafts per year). Secondly, he believes that Gho is not the best designer. If he could do things again and had unlimited funds, he would get his hairline done by someone else, and then have Gho’s HST for density
  • He was generally positive about his experience

The email was encouraging, but bear in mind it is just one data point. Additionally, it seems to me that if HST works consistently, it would be great to have this in the hands of Armani, etc, who are great designers. Artistic talent extremely important in my view.

There is also another former patient who posts on a forum called Haarweb. It’s in Dutch so you will need to use Google translator. His name is Roloff and seems happy with his experience with Gho.

Leeroy, if you wish to contact HSI, it may be better to call them. They are not as responsive on emails. You can ask to speak to Gho or one of the senior doctors. I based in the US, so as much as I would like to be there in person, I can’t do it. I will however contribute my share and do whatever I can to help.

46

Posted by Shooter on 28.05.2010 at HairSite …

» Leeroy,
»
» I am way too far away from Gho’s clinic to be of any use. I sent them a
» few e-mails, but since none of them were regarding a consultation, I
» haven’t gotten any replies.
»
» If you can somehow contact a person that knows what they are talking about
» (i.e. Dr. Gho or an HST affiliate), I’ll back this experiment in any way I
» can.
»
» Ask them for significant proof (i.e. high-quality photos of regrowth in
» extraction and recipient sites/a significantly balding person being brought
» back to NW1 or NW2) and ask if you can be a test dummy.

Posted by Shooter on 28.05.2010 at xconomy.com …

» Tk, I know what you’re saying with HST… but honestly, I think its another ACell.
» I just don’t agree that the science works, it sounds way to “easy” to me.
» Gho has been doing this procedure for years and there hasn’t been a single “wow”
» result. I just don’t think it’s as good as he’s hyping (unfortunately).
» I hope I’m wrong, but who knows.

Funny …

And what the hell has the HST-technique to do with a regenerative medicine like ACell ???

And WHERE is Dr. Gho “hyping” his technique - WHERE ???

47

» There is also another former patient who posts on a forum called Haarweb.
» It’s in Dutch so you will need to use Google translator. His name is Roloff
» and seems happy with his experience with Gho.

By the way …

… I already mentioned the user “Roloff” several times here at HairSite. :wink:

Anyway, good work Leonard!

48

Iron_Man, chill out!

Stop being so confrontational. I’m a poster on a website, not a doctor.

My statements aren’t even contradictory.

I don’t know what Dr. Gho has. I’m skeptical. I don’t think it works (personally).

That doesn’t mean I can’t support an honest investigation into this technique to find out for sure.

Nice investigatory work. You’ve succeeded in creeping me the hell out.

49

ACELL may have not worked for hair regeneration for whatever reason…but it definetly isnt hype…at least the Department of Defense doesnt think so

Pitt gets $12 million from U.S. to treat tissue loss
Wednesday, May 26, 2010
By Pohla Smith, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Michael Henninger/ Post-GazetteCpl. Isaias Hernandez speaks about his wounded leg.A television is credited with saving Cpl. Isaias Hernandez’s life in Iraq when an indirect artillery round aimed at his convoy hit in front of him and another GI. The other soldier was killed.

“I was carrying a TV for our convoy to use, and it was covering my vital organs, and the doctors said it acted like a shield,” said Cpl. Hernandez, 24, a native of Bristol, Conn., now living in San Antonio. But the mortar blew the front muscle out of his right thigh.

He underwent several surgical procedures, including the transplant of part of a back muscle into his leg, but a hole remained in the tissue.

Then Cpl. Hernandez got a chance to undergo a new type of treatment developed by the McGowan Institute for Regenerative Medicine, a joint effort of the University of Pittsburgh and UPMC. He received an injection of extracellular matrix, or ECM, a naturally made cell scaffold that recruits stem cells to injury sites to regrow normal tissue rather than scars.

The result was a 12 percent to 15 percent increase in muscle mass and a similar increase in strength, said Dr. Stephen F. Badylak, deputy director of McGowan and the physician who helped to pioneer the use of this matrix. He developed the material that the team used on Cpl. Hernandez at Brooke Army Medical Center at Fort Sam Houston in San Antonio. He also was part of that team.

Dr. Badylak is the senior Scientific Advisor of ACell, Inc.
http://www.pitt.edu/~msrc/personnel/faculty/steven_badylak.html

Now, thanks to a $6.3 million contract with the U.S. Department of Defense Office of Technology Transition, which was announced Tuesday, as many as 80 people with massive tissue loss in major muscles will also undergo the procedure over the next two years.

“The military will supply at least half of the patients,” Dr. Badylak said after a news conference at Soldiers & Sailors Memorial Hall & Museum in Oakland.

Forty of the procedures will be done by the Pitt team; then the pioneers will teach the procedure to personnel at four other institutions, who will do the rest of them.

The $6.3 million is part of a total $12 million, two-year deal the McGowan Institute struck with the Office of Technology Transition.

Another $3.9 million will go toward a clinical trial that examines the effectiveness of a type of bone cement to spur new growth in craniofacial defects. The first phase of the study will enroll 10 military and 10 civilian patients. Made of calcium and phosphorus, the cement is absorbed by the body. This eliminates the need to implant metal plates, which can increase the risk of infection.

The remaining $1.8 million will examine the usefulness of injections of human fibroblasts, a type of connective tissue cell, into burn scars that have shrunk. The aim is for the fibroblasts to soften the skin and allow more freedom of movement in affected joints. Phase II clinical trials are expected to begin this year with 20 patients expected to receive the fibroblast treatment.

The important aspect of the contract is its two-year length, as the Defense Department office came to McGowan looking for speedy help for its soldiers. The goal for the three projects is to go from research to patient within that period, said Alan Russell, director of McGowan.

“We put thought into the specific things we could do. … We took the technology that for Pittsburgh seemed most promising. Two years is incredibly aggressive,” he said.

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10146/1060721-114.stm#ixzz0pL58Sflg

50

Jeez, you guys are relentless!

I never hated on ACell. I loved the fact that people on various forums took the initiative to put it into the hands of willing doctors. I also think we should take similar steps to verify HST.

Nevertheless, my personal opinion is that both HST and ACell, although they SHOULD work in theory, will be less than impressive in practice (for the purpose of duplicating hair growth).

51

Not trying to attack you Shooter…just read that atricle about Acell this week (Im from Pittsburgh where it is being studied) in the Post Gazzette and it seemed relavent here…I know you didnt attack it but many forum members did and I could never understand why they wouldnt want to see it tried ??? And then accused us of having ties to the company and trying to push it on this forum…that was just nuts…I just thought it would be great to see if a doctor would try something that looked promising…

52

» » There is also another former patient who posts on a forum called
» Haarweb.
» » It’s in Dutch so you will need to use Google translator. His name is
» Roloff
» » and seems happy with his experience with Gho.
»
» By the way …
» [kliniek] Coen Gho's Hair Science Institute in Amsterdam - Pagina 81 - Haarweb Forum
»
» … I already mentioned the user “Roloff” several times here at HairSite.
» :wink:
»
» Anyway, good work Leonard!

Seems Roloff (and others) commented in English in the meanwhile …

53

Acell are liars. They lied with the fingertip story, and they lied about the Dr. Jones experiment.
Also, Dr. Hitzig is a liar, posting misleading photos at his website. We exposed him a while ago in this forum.
Cooley also participated with Hitzig in his hypes. Later, Cooley had to backpedal from Hitzigs claims.

re. the army experiment, 15% increase in muscle mass is crap, you can get that by simple exercise.

» Not trying to attack you Shooter…just read that atricle about Acell this
» week (Im from Pittsburgh where it is being studied) in the Post Gazzette
» and it seemed relavent here…I know you didnt attack it but many forum
» members did and I could never understand why they wouldnt want to see it
» tried ??? And then accused us of having ties to the company and trying to
» push it on this forum…that was just nuts…I just thought it would be
» great to see if a doctor would try something that looked promising…

54

» This essentially allows us a relatively cheap way to test the procedure
» which is of prime concern to us. James Bond - would you be willing to
» administer this? You seem to have by far the greatest knowledge of any of
» us in this area.

Sorry for the late reply. I’m in the middle of a massive software engineering project with a brutal deadline.

I’m going on vacation the last two weeks of July. I’m considering going to Holland to check out Gho’s work. What do you mean by “administer?” Are you asking me to tattoo the head with semi-permanent dots and perform the photo documentation?

55

» My only concern is if I were gho i’d say “I’m willing to give anyone a 50
» graft test proceudre with 100% monitering, documentation, and data with
» facts along the way + pictures. If the test fails I guarantee your money
» back in two folds”. Then we’re talking business. In my business I am so
» confident in our services I tell my potential customers if they’re not
» satisfied with my service simply cancel and we’ll refund the full 30 days
» back.

This thing is easy to test. I asked Gho in the past if he would be willing to for me to fly the Holland and test donor regrowth. He said he would be glad to do it. I don’t expect him to pay anything for it. I’d do it out of my own pocket. I need to call him, but it’s difficult due to the time lag from the U.S. to Holland. I’m working on a really intense software engineering project with a brutal deadline, so I’m falling behind on everyday life stuff. I expect to be done with this project by the end of June, and I’m going on a much needed vacation the last two weeks of July. I’m going to try to find the time to contact Gho and see if he can fit me in for a 50 graft visit or perhaps a full session. If I go, I’ll bring my GF and have her place the tattoo dots and fully photo-document the procedure.

I should say, my GF is pushing me for an alternate vacation, so I can’t guarantee I’ll end up going this time around.

56

» How can anyone be sure Gho doesn’t transplant a hair from the back of the
» head instead of a HM hair? is it possible that he could ‘salt’ the
» samples…

I suspect you have not read Gho’s research article. Here is how to test the procedure:

  1. Shave the head to a crew-cut.
  2. Tattoo a 0.5 cm^2 area in the donor region and a 0.5 cm^2 area in the balding crown using a tiny acupuncture needle and semi-permanent tattoo ink.
  3. Take high resolution photos of the test areas.
  4. Have Gho take 50 grafts from the donor test area and implant them into the crown test area.
  5. Photo document the results for the next couple of weeks using a high-pixel-count digital camera.
  6. Enlarge the test areas to fit on a large high-resolution computer monitor in order to count the hairs. Count the hairs prior to the grafts being removed, just after the grafts are removed, and as they grow in over the next few weeks.

Now just how exactly is Gho going to fake these results?

This test is easy to perform and will provide conclusive results. I contacted Gho a few years ago and asked if he would be willing to have me fly over and test the donor regrowth. He said he would be happy to take part in a test to prove donor regrowth. SD said I was untrustworthy and would fake the results, so I never bothered. (The skepticism around here is off the charts. It’s healthy to be skeptical, but people are pushing it way too far. Just do the test and stop freaking out already.)

Lately, I want to do a test for my own curiosity and could care less what others think. I’m seriously thinking of restoring my hair and want to do it using the best possible methodology or combination of methodologies. I’m willing to share my results. If others want to perform a test in order to help verify the result, that’s even better.

I’m considering getting a traditional FUE with a top surgeon to restore the hairline and using HST to restore the crown. This will allow me to save donor hair for future fallout. It’s a catch-22 because traditional FUE results in scarring and loss of donor, but HST probably does not deliver a good hairline in one pass.

57

» » This essentially allows us a relatively cheap way to test the procedure
» » which is of prime concern to us. James Bond - would you be willing to
» » administer this? You seem to have by far the greatest knowledge of any
» of
» » us in this area.
»
» Sorry for the late reply. I’m in the middle of a massive software
» engineering project with a brutal deadline.
»
» I’m going on vacation the last two weeks of July. I’m considering going to
» Holland to check out Gho’s work. What do you mean by “administer?” Are you
» asking me to tattoo the head with semi-permanent dots and perform the photo
» documentation?

Hey JB no problems. No, I just meant that you would be best placed to help us design the experiment - how to go about it, how to document it, etc. It looks like you have already done that however in your other post. I don’t mean for you to actually be there in person, that would be asking too much.

I have contacted HSI, but given that I’m just asking for information, they aren’t as responsive to me. I flagged the possibility of a 50 graft test case but have not heard a reply yet. They don’t seem to be desperate for customers, nor did they try to give me the hard sell. I think they have quite a lot of patients already. JB - perhaps you can try contacting Gho? He may be more responsive to you since you know him better.

Also, I managed to speak to a former Gho patient who was generally positive about his experience. He did mention though that while HST is great for density, he might have gone to another doctor to get the perfect hairline. The other Gho patient I emailed has not replied.

Good luck with everything at work!

Best,
Leo

58

» » How can anyone be sure Gho doesn’t transplant a hair from the back of
» the
» » head instead of a HM hair? is it possible that he could ‘salt’ the
» » samples…
»
» I suspect you have not read Gho’s research article. Here is how to test
» the procedure:
»
» 1) Shave the head to a crew-cut.
» 2) Tattoo a 0.5 cm^2 area in the donor region and a 0.5 cm^2 area in the
» balding crown using a tiny acupuncture needle and semi-permanent tattoo
» ink.
» 3) Take high resolution photos of the test areas.
» 4) Have Gho take 50 grafts from the donor test area and implant them into
» the crown test area.
» 5) Photo document the results for the next couple of weeks using a
» high-pixel-count digital camera.
» 6) Enlarge the test areas to fit on a large high-resolution computer
» monitor in order to count the hairs. Count the hairs prior to the grafts
» being removed, just after the grafts are removed, and as they grow in over
» the next few weeks.
»
» Now just how exactly is Gho going to fake these results?
»
» This test is easy to perform and will provide conclusive results. I
» contacted Gho a few years ago and asked if he would be willing to have me
» fly over and test the donor regrowth. He said he would be happy to take
» part in a test to prove donor regrowth. SD said I was untrustworthy and
» would fake the results, so I never bothered. (The skepticism around here is
» off the charts. It’s healthy to be skeptical, but people are pushing it way
» too far. Just do the test and stop freaking out already.)
»
» Lately, I want to do a test for my own curiosity and could care less what
» others think. I’m seriously thinking of restoring my hair and want to do it
» using the best possible methodology or combination of methodologies. I’m
» willing to share my results. If others want to perform a test in order to
» help verify the result, that’s even better.
»
» I’m considering getting a traditional FUE with a top surgeon to restore
» the hairline and using HST to restore the crown. This will allow me to save
» donor hair for future fallout. It’s a catch-22 because traditional FUE
» results in scarring and loss of donor, but HST probably does not deliver a
» good hairline in one pass.

Leeroy Jenkins is also willing to have this tested so maybe you should talk to him and you both could work something out.

59

» Seems Roloff (and others) commented in English in the meanwhile …
» [kliniek] Coen Gho's Hair Science Institute in Amsterdam - Pagina 81 - Haarweb Forum

… and in the meanwhile, James Bond is asking the Dr. Gho’s patient “roloff” (age 54) serious questions, and roloff already told him his (interesting) experiences with HST:

60

» Good luck with everything at work!

Thanks Leo. You’ve been doing a great job gathering information, and I appreciate your effort. I have tried to email Dr. Gho without a reply, I have emailed the clinic and got no reply, and I filled out a contact form on their website and got no reply.

The clinic is either extremely busy or their email is bouncing. I will have to call Dr. Gho directly and see what he has to say. That’s kind of difficult for me because of the time lag, and currently, my phone will not allow calls out of the U.S. (I dumped my landline a couple of months ago and went with cell phone only). At any rate, I’ll figure out how to call Holland sooner or later.

For the first time, I am considering getting my hair restored. Prior to now, I haven’t felt the technology was advanced enough, consistent enough, and safe enough to risk getting my head cut. I am strongly considering getting the hairline done by one of the well-known hairline experts. I have contacted Cole, Bisanga, and Keser for opinions and graft estimates. For the hairline, Cole said 1000, Bisanga said 2500, and Keser said 1500. That’s quite a range. All do good work, so I think a person has to figure which surgeon’s style best suits them. Also, the cost per graft each clinic charges varies widely, so that’s something to consider.

I would really like to get proof (on my own scalp) of how well Gho’s procedure works prior to sitting with another surgeon. Once you use up all your donor, it’s game over. I want to conserve as much donor area as possible while still obtaining excellent and natural looking results. Unfortunately, Gho’s clinic is so busy, it looks like I will have to put off a visit until January. Thus, I might get the hairline done in the meantime by one of the other clinics. A lot depends on my upcoming conversation with Dr. Gho.

BTW, if someone is going to get the 50 graft proof, it is imperative to have Gho agree to the proof and mark both the donor and recipient area. Make sure to take good, well lit, high resolution photos prior to the procedure, and continue to photo-document both areas for at least 2 weeks. I will be glad to talk to Dr. Gho and help design the mini-study in such a manner that the outcome cannot be refuted (whether good or bad).