Getfitinib hair growth on nose......probably sunburn also

Stem cell; cell based hair therapy
41

» you really still wanna try the stuff orally now? Is Gentifib less of a
» risk then Leflunomide for the lung issue or something?
»
»
» I dunno.
»
»
» I agree that a 85-out-of-5043 risk doesn’t really seem that high. But I’d
» feel a hell of a lot more ballsy about trying this stuff if I knew the
» rest of the 4958 patients didn’t get ANY lung damage for sure. It just
» sounds like this could be a shades-of-gray problem with any usage, like I
» suspect is the deal with Finasteride and sexual side effects.
»
» And the study also really shoots down the loading-dose standard procedure
» for Leflunomide. For all I know it might take weeks to get the effect
» functionally up to our needed levels without that. If the EGF-R inhibition
» has to be started by a few days after the wound, you’d need to have started
» that way ahead of time just to make it work at all. Either that or you at
» least compromise the strength of the loading dose.
»
»
»
»
» How does Gentifib stack up?
»
» Is the lung issue of the same kind of frequency/severity as Leflunomide
» seems to produce?
»
» Is the loading dose necessary with Gentifib (and if not, maybe it’s just
» that much more risky when starting it than Leflunomide)?
»
»
»
»
»
» Honestly I don’t have a lot of faith in the natural EGF-R inihbitors.
» Folica spelled out that it had to be unnatural in their eyes. And more
» importantly I just think it’s much more likely to have been stumbled upon
» by now if there was an effective natural alternative. The “Folica method”
» might not have been around for centuries, but plenty of people have gotten
» skin injuries while taking natural substances. I just feel like we should
» have a little more anecdotal evidence of it if this was possible.

Why not just try it topically first and see what happens?

42

Cal,

I suppose one could crush up some of the pills in dermovan or cetaphil (folks have used these as spiro carriers in the past).

The isoflavone patent is posted here in another thread. You’d have to read that for yourself. I have no idea whether it works or not.

Lidocaine isn’t a “natural”, its a medicine for pain relief in a topical gel…but it has a bad effect on epidermal cells, so who knows…

43

I don’t know what I’ll do now.

I don’t want to start trying a lot of things because each time I do a wound that buys me into the test for several months. (Who knows how long it’ll be before that area’s been healed up enough to withstand another round of dermabrasion? Next thing I know I’ve got a leopard-spotted head from all these tests.)

And there’s the multiple unknown variables issue. Maybe I can no longer guarantee learning the answer to the BIG question from my test if it’s not done orally, but that still doesn’t mean I want to increase the variables any more than I have to.

Man, I just wanted to do this procedure 1-2 times exactly right and get an answer.

I’m perfectly willing to toss the $100 worth of Arava pills that I’ve got and buy $400 worth of Gentifib or something else if that’s the best plan. But I don’t wanna throw the kitchen sink at my head for months in random attempts.

If you guys have got any further ideas to throw at me, I’m listening.

:frowning:

44

» I don’t know what I’ll do now.
»
»
» I don’t want to start trying a lot of things because each time I do a
» wound that buys me into the test for several months. (Who knows how long
» it’ll be before that area’s been healed up enough to withstand another
» round of dermabrasion? Next thing I know I’ve got a leopard-spotted head
» from all these tests.)
»
» And there’s the multiple unknown variables issue. Maybe I can no longer
» guarantee learning the answer to the BIG question from my test if it’s not
» done orally, but that still doesn’t mean I want to increase the variables
» any more than I have to.
»
»
»
»
»
» Man, I just wanted to do this procedure 1-2 times exactly right and get an
» answer.
»
» I’m perfectly willing to toss the $100 worth of Arava pills that I’ve got
» and buy $400 worth of Gentifib or something else if that’s the best plan.
» But I don’t wanna throw the kitchen sink at my head for months in random
» attempts.
»
» If you guys have got any further ideas to throw at me, I’m listening.
»
»
» :frowning:

Personally, I feel its all a crap shoot right now. Just what is this “secret compound” Follica’s being so tight lipped about? This , i feel is probably the linchpin or the key to its success or failure. The thing is, this so called magic potion is in their patent isn’t it? or at least the ingredients that make it up. The key is figuring this piece of the puzzle out and frankly I just don’t see that happening unless someone has access to a research lab with many skin grafted rats at their disposal.

45

» Personally, I feel its all a crap shoot right now. Just what is this
» “secret compound” Follica’s being so tight lipped about? This , i feel is
» probably the linchpin or the key to its success or failure. The thing is,
» this so called magic potion is in their patent isn’t it? or at least the
» ingredients that make it up. The key is figuring this piece of the puzzle
» out and frankly I just don’t see that happening unless someone has access
» to a research lab with many skin grafted rats at their disposal.

I’m not concerned that it’s that complicated. Regardless of what they’re trying to package & market, we know that the EGF-R inhibition is the basis of their concept. EGF-R and maybe WNT signalling too, but EGF-R is the most important thing.

I’m gonna beat on this point again –

I am ONLY trying to lock down a firm “yes” to the question of whether their basic idea is gonna feasibly work on humans. Right now, I DO NOT have my heart set on figuring out precisely what Folica will use for the best possible results-per-pass.

Given that, I think this should be do-able. Any way to get the EGF-R inhibited, without hurting the WNT signalling and/or wrecking the wound environment in the process, would suit me fine right now.

46

Cal,

Here is an idea for you:

Behind your ears, before your hairline starts, is a small area you can “test” this on. Up underneath your hair on the back of your neck (*if you dont buzz your hair short back there) is enough room to test three or four different little places). A small spot on one of your eyebrows (most people have eyebrows that aren’t perfectly identical, with one slightly larger than the other). The abraded area only has to be something like 1.5 cm in diameter. That isn’t even one third of a penny, so it need not be large. Several different methodologies could be tested in this way.

Over at HLT, Orin has said he got some frontal growth with just plucking–three day wait—wounding----and the application of lithium oronate several days later to areas around the wound. He took a day or so break from washing the area, and just used water to wash for about 10 days according to him. He got “some” new hair, but not a bunch of it. He too is looking for natural EGF inhibitors to add to the process. He was one of the guys way on back that was trying really outlying stuff like needling minox, etc. He has read the patent now and knows what is up and is basically wanting to do it with a natural EGF-antagonist.

I suppose if one was “determined” there are several areas of the body (like the tops of feet) that dont have hair where one could test little spots, etc. TCA-peels might prove more useful than abrasion for things like this…

I feel pretty damned confident that its going to work. When I read EX. 7 again and noticed that subsequent experiments did the same thing…only the human immune system could stop follica from going in us—and we have cyclosporin for that. The fact that it made hair in -hairless-mice with no hair beforehand makes me think this really should work if we do it right. Ive always had that one wild hair on my left temple half an inch away from my eye where I cut myself so many years ago that never goes away…Ive almost assuredly had EDIHN…on that one little spot myself. I didn’t have that hair in school.

47

Yeah, the Folica project really seems like it’s a done deal.

I get the feeling they’re not even thinking very hard about whether it’s gonna work anymore. All that focus on commercializing & optimizing everything.

I wonder about Gentifib topicals. Could it be as simple as just crushing some pills and stirring it into a cream-based carrier? I don’t know how stupid or realistic that idea sounds.

If Folica is trying Gentifib topicals, then they don’t seem to have systemic concerns about using the stuff topically. And I don’t think their specific formulation could alter that characteristic much, do you Benji?

48

»
» I’m perfectly willing to toss the $100 worth of Arava pills that I’ve got
» and buy $400 worth of Gentifib or something else if that’s the best plan.
» But I don’t wanna throw the kitchen sink at my head for months in random
» attempts.
»
» If you guys have got any further ideas to throw at me, I’m listening.
»
»
» :frowning:

For me it will not be proven not to work before someone does wounding + Gefinitib. I have yet to see a picture of Arava regrowth. Gefinitib has some evidence already.

49

I dunno if they will want to put ppl on immuno suppresive drugs for this treatment. … I mean they should. And I would be open to do it myself. But still it may scare few ppl off.

Another thing I can think off that can stop it from working on the scal is the fact that there already are follicles. Your body may not grow so many follicles there if your sebaceous glands are already taking too much of space there.

Anyway gefinitib guy shows it should grow at least somehow decent results for some.

50

The patents listed a handful of drug possibles for the EGF-R, and Leflunomide was in the same breath as Gentifib.

Gentifib probably got more attention from them because there’s more precedent to think it’ll absorb through the skin than Leflunomide. But if you were doing it orally then Leflunomide should be a viable possibility to work on hair too. (I don’t expect Folica to sell the method with leflunomide, but I’m just talking about theoretical effectiveness.)

51

» I wonder about Gentifib topicals. Could it be as simple as just crushing
» some pills and stirring it into a cream-based carrier? I don’t know how
» stupid or realistic that idea sounds.

In the patent, they give two concentration ranges for the topical EGFR inhibitors: 0.001% to 0.1%, and 0.000001% to 10%. Obviously, they are not interested in advertising the exact concentration they intend to use (the concentration may/will be different depending on the exact drug they use - some of the EGFR inhibitors are more potent than others on a per mg basis.)

If they choose a Rogaine-like vehicle (alcohol + propylene glycol + water), then a 5% solution of gefitinib (which is at the high end of the ranges given) would yield 50 mg of the drug per ml. If you use minoxidil as a basis - two 1 ml applications per day - then you would be putting 100 mg of gefitinib on your scalp per day. That’s a significantly smaller dose than the normal 250 mg per day cancer dose. Since only a small fraction of the topical dose is likely to get absorded systemically, you’d probably only get exposed to much less than 100 mg (in the case of minoxidil, two 1 ml applications per day at 5% will cause about 2-to-5 mg to be absorbed systemically).

52

» » I wonder about Gentifib topicals. Could it be as simple as just
» crushing
» » some pills and stirring it into a cream-based carrier? I don’t know
» how
» » stupid or realistic that idea sounds.
»
» In the patent, they give two concentration ranges for the topical EGFR
» inhibitors: 0.001% to 0.1%, and 0.000001% to 10%. Obviously, they are not
» interested in advertising the exact concentration they intend to use (the
» concentration may/will be different depending on the exact drug they use -
» some of the EGFR inhibitors are more potent than others on a per mg
» basis.)
»
» If they choose a Rogaine-like vehicle (alcohol + propylene glycol +
» water), then a 5% solution of gefitinib (which is at the high end of the
» ranges given) would yield 50 mg of the drug per ml. If you use minoxidil as
» a basis - two 1 ml applications per day - then you would be putting 100 mg
» of gefitinib on your scalp per day. That’s a significantly smaller dose
» than the normal 250 mg per day cancer dose. Since only a small fraction of
» the topical dose is likely to get absorded systemically, you’d probably
» only get exposed to much less than 100 mg (in the case of minoxidil, two 1
» ml applications per day at 5% will cause about 2-to-5 mg to be absorbed
» systemically).

If you use dmso in your delivery vehicle I think some of it will get absorbed systematically.

53

Im just going to cut and paste this…I’ll let you guys interpret what you think of it:

IRESSA® (gefitinib tablets) contain 250 mg of gefitinib and are available as brown film-coated tablets for daily oral administration.

Gefitinib is an anilinoquinazoline with the chemical name 4-Quinazolinamine, N-(3-chloro-4- fluorophenyl) -7-methoxy-6- [3-4-morpholin) propoxy] and the following structural formula:

It has the molecular formula C22H24ClFN4O3, a relative molecular mass of 446.9 and is a white-colored powder. Gefitinib is a free base. The molecule has pKaS of 5.4 and 7.2 and therefore ionizes progressively in solution as the pH falls. Gefitinib can be defined as sparingly soluble at pH 1, but is practically insoluble above pH 7, with the solubility dropping sharply between pH 4 and pH 6. In non-aqueous solvents, gefitinib is freely soluble in glacial acetic acid and dimethylsulphoxide, soluble in pyridine, sparingly soluble in tetrahydrofuran, and slightly soluble in methanol, ethanol (99.5%), ethyl acetate, propan-2-ol and acetonitrile.

The inactive ingredients of IRESSA tablets are: Tablet core: Lactose monohydrate, microcrystalline cellulose, croscarmellose sodium, povidone, sodium lauryl sulfate and magnesium stearate. Coating: hypromellose, polyethylene glycol 300, titanium dioxide, red ferric oxide and yellow ferric oxide.

Brand Name: Iressa

Why do I have a feeling they are going to use a cream or mousse-kinda topical with this stuff? Wouldn’t an alchoholic carrier promote more systemic absorption than a cream? My knowledge of topicals is fairly limited…I know that skin creams arent’ supposed to be systemically absorbed but are indeed supposed to penetrate the epidermis.

I mean, Emu oil could get it right through the skin, but it would go too deep and get to the blood stream right?

TAGOHL, any thoughts on the lidocaine? Ive got a tube of that…

I also posted a patent concerning genestein being a egf-antagonist in another thread. The patent applicants certainly seemed to think it does so…Use of natural EGFR inhibitors to prevent side effects due to retinoid therapy, soaps, and other stimuli that activate the epidermal growth factor receptor - Regents of the University of Michigan

54

I’m not sure how worried I would be about a small amount of systemic absorption. A couple days ago there was still talk of swallowing it orally for the whole deal.

If I had a bottle of Gentifib in front of me, I’d probably try it in emu oil and see what happens.