Dr. Wong/5129 Grafts/One Session/One Year /Strip

» Its bad that you are trying to push strip transplants.
»
» I’ve seen a guy who did a strip transplant that shaved his head. It was
» not pretty. Its a frightning zipper scar with stitches like a football
» running from ear to ear. It looked like he had been operated on by Dr.
» Frankenstein.
»
» Please do not push strip transplants. They take away a bald man’s last
» refuge which is to shave it off.
»
» You know it is wrong to be pushing this sh&t so even if you want to shill
» for Wong, please do so ethically. There are a lot of strip scar victims
» out there some of whom have gotten so depressed they’ve committed suicide.

one thing about fue which I think is oversold hype is that they say you can cut your hair very short or even shave your head, well after seeing so many fue pics on this and other boards I am starting to believe that it is only possible if you have no more than 300-400 grafts on a virgin head with good density. The truth is that almost every person who had fue done still needs to keep the hair in the donor site long, i have never seen a shaved fue look that is near spotless!

» » »
» »
» » Diamond! care to share your results of surgeries with dr.woods??
» Absolutely- You can see my in progress results in his site. More has come
» in and I will post ( If I can figure out how to on this site) photos in
» the next month. I would say there is a 80 to 90% improvement since I
» started. No visible scarring and I will show the donor site ( beard area
» completely shaved down) Like the zaydan & topcat repairs, I was one of
» the worst cases on the net. So when viewing people like us compare apples
» to apples. Here are a couple for now. I am the guy in the black tee shirt
» on the beach.
»


»

thanks for sharing…hope you will be able to put up a thread of your results in coming months…and as for your criticism of strip,i do think H&W to be top notch and as for the safe area thinning around strip scar,have you noticed the extraction zone for FUEs??..most docs go beyond the safe donor area to get the numbers…and if a doc does limit himself to safe donor it will be hard to get the numbers required for norwood5,6,7 with fue(without thinning the donor considerably)…i think strip becomes a necessity for some patients but yes those with minimal hairloss can go FUE way!!

I worked for a clinic called New Beginnings in Orlando Florida in 1996 to 2001. My close friend still runs this place and sees transplants from all over till this day. BTW he wears a system. I also have close friends from Pennsylvania who run a clinic Advanced Hair clinic who see transplants from all over the world. They too tell me that that strip is not worth it. It always helps to hear from NON Sales people- who do not sale HT’s. I am not saying that all strip is bad but I have seen and had too much to ever, ever recommend it. I got my License in Cosmetology in 1995. I attended the Boca Raton Beauty Institute on Federal Hwy. I have been a Professional Hair Replacement person who graduated from the ONRITE institute in Fort Lauderdale. I knew Andy Rite from years ago. I have also met many Doctors in conferences who are not on this site and a couple who are on this site & attended many, many seminars on hair transplants. I again rephrase my last post. Let all Doctors do all of the work, no techs and no strip. This is the way this sleazy, sleazy business should work. It will never get the regulation it needs. H&W remind me of MHR in the 90’s. Nice photos, even MHR showed strip donor videos in 1990. Old Old stuff. Send your doctors to learn FUE and let them do all the surgeries themselves. If you want more info on my education and experience in this field I would be glad to provide it.

P.S. Why don’t your doctors offer Beard Hair transplants? For a cutting edge clinic you should offer it.

» To start with a strip only transplant? Are you saying to start with strip
» first and then do fue later? but then the reason to do fue is to avoid the
» scar so that doesn’t make a lot of sense either, please clarify.

sure, an experienced strip surgeon can remove a significant number of grafts without a wide scar. H&W undermine the lower aspect of the incision which helps a lot (although there are some potential issues with this approach). Another poster mentioned stretch back but this is not a problem and stretch back is not the same as scar stretching. The advantage of strip is the ability to move much more hair from the sweet spot of the safe zone compared with FUE.

Further surgery by strip is good for some but will depend on tension which would then lead to a wide scar as well as its impact on the periphery of the scalp (ie lifting the nape). Once the scalp has relaxed to the extent that it will relax then FUE could be an option for many BUT… unlike strip FUE will not remove skin so can have a more noticeable impact on the donor. Also unless done very well it can damage the peripheral follicles of every hair removed (halo effect). The direction of many donor hairs left after surgery can be altered if too many are take (the Mexican wave effect) which limits further surgery strip or FUE. On the other hand, FUE in a second round can be used to make the donor scar almost invisible with a very short hairstyle and of course, since not so many grafts would be taken as it is the second round, then unlike strip it will not risk the potential for a wider scar in the second round. There are many other issues but both have a place.

Unfortunately there are still too many clinics out there that are doing both bad strip and fue work. Bad work includes these low dense walls of hair for hairlines along with unacceptable scarring. I still can’t believe clinics are still doing this to young men. H&W by all indications is producing some very good work and seems to be very ethical in my opinion.

I agree with Marco, except I would recommend that patients start out with fue by a highly skilled ethical clinic first. I say this because it gives them a chance to see what they are getting into without making a huge commitment. This is very sensible advice in my opinion. It is less likely to lock them into anything which can have a huge negative psychological affect. Forcing them into continued procedures. If the patient decides somewhere down the line that they would like to pursue strip because they believe that it will give them additional donor then that is their decision. What is most important is to fully understand the implications of each procedure, and then there should be no regrets.

Sometimes repair patients might be misunderstood as being angry. Speaking for myself I must say this is not the case. Of course I wish that it didn’t happen, but part of life is making bad decisions. As long as one can learn something from it, then it does have some value. I guess it’s all about perception. So many good things came out of this experience for me, that although I would like to change it, sometimes I think if I had the chance to go back in time, it might be a bad idea.

The only thing that angers me is to see this constant never ending flow of desperate young men that are still making reckless decisions, even when presented with the information. For some of the less than ethical clinics it’s like shooting fish in a barrel. Maybe some of these younger patients deserve what’s in store for them. But it’s hard not to show some concern and compassion because many of us were the same way when we were younger and we probably wish that there was someone there to help advise us.

Diamond it takes a tremendous amount of courage to post your photos like this. I consider you a person of very strong character. Too many others just hide in the shadows and do not offer their help, yet are all too willing to expect help from others.

Overall this is a nice result from H&W.

Thanks for the kind words Topcat. I do hope that I am wrong about H&W. Perhaps they are more ethical than I think. I have been burned and seen a lot of others who have been also so others please realize what I have gone through. I have nothing to hide and try to be as honest as I can. My only thoughts though are that if a clinic only offers strip then it can’t repair some of the most severe disfiguring cases. I wish the topcats & Zaydens of this world & all others who have been burned by this industry the best in their repair courses. I also do not not Jotronic so I can only hope that he will guide these young men in the right direction. Hair Transplants are something that a person will live with forever so please, please use caution when deciding upon this surgery. Best to all!!

By the way, the idea that you can cover an NW5 with even a thin coverage with under six thousand grafts is not realistic. Seven thousand is the least that will give reasonable coverage on an average sized head. for instance 180cm2 which would be the average bald area for an NW5 would take 9000 fus to cover at 50 grafts/cm so at best you will get 50fu at the frontal third and 35 for the rest. By the time someone is NW5 their donor is likely to be no more than 75-80fu/cm. If it is higher than that then it is extremely likely to deplete to this density within five to ten years. The accessible donor by any technique is unlikely to be more than 200-m2 giving circa 16K fu. if you don’t want to go below 50fu /cm in the donor then you have about 6000 grafts available. The area in the strip sweet spot is usually by far the most densely populated and this makes strip a good choice for many who want reasonable coverage. Although the most difficult issue to nail down, strip also has a tendency to reduce the area of the donor rather than making it thinner which again is problematic with FUE.

i am not a proponent of wither technique but this thread has become so unbalanced that the case for and advantages of strip need to be highlighted

» Thanks for the kind words Topcat. I do hope that I am wrong about H&W.
» Perhaps they are more ethical than I think. I have been burned and seen a
» lot of others who have been also so others please realize what I have gone
» through. I have nothing to hide and try to be as honest as I can. My
» only thoughts though are that if a clinic only offers strip then it can’t
» repair some of the most severe disfiguring cases. I wish the topcats &
» Zaydens of this world & all others who have been burned by this industry
» the best in their repair courses. I also do not not Jotronic so I can only
» hope that he will guide these young men in the right direction. Hair
» Transplants are something that a person will live with forever so please,
» please use caution when deciding upon this surgery. Best to all!!

this whole transplant thing is very deceiving, if it wasnt for propecia youngsters wouldnt go near transplants because on their own they cannot achieve much due to donor availability. docotrs wouldnt dear to take huge strips that flirt with the nw6 area and these transformations wouldnt be possible so people wouldnt fall into the trap.

With strip if propecia stops working you are in deep trouble and can never take the way out which is shaving it all off. Its not that easy with FUE as well but with strip you will look like Frankestein

» Thanks for the kind words Topcat. I do hope that I am wrong about H&W.
» Perhaps they are more ethical than I think. I have been burned and seen a
» lot of others who have been also so others please realize what I have gone
» through. I have nothing to hide and try to be as honest as I can. My
» only thoughts though are that if a clinic only offers strip then it can’t
» repair some of the most severe disfiguring cases. I wish the topcats &
» Zaydens of this world & all others who have been burned by this industry
» the best in their repair courses. I also do not not Jotronic so I can only
» hope that he will guide these young men in the right direction. Hair
» Transplants are something that a person will live with forever so please,
» please use caution when deciding upon this surgery. Best to all!!

Diamond,

I appreciate your time to explain your history. You said that you don’t know me so let me introduce you to my history. It is not as long as yours but it is there just the same.

In 1992 I was suckered into not one but two mini-graft procedures by Dr. Richard Norris in Knoxville, Tn. I was a 22 years old and had no desire for a hair transplant (NW2 to NW2A, thinning crown) but I was there to lend support to my best friend who’s loss was more noticeable than my own. We both wound up in the chair (after the doc scared me to death about hair loss) where the doctor did most of the work himself with his wife and daughter assisting. My hair loss continued for the next nine years till I was beyond a NW6 but not quite a NW7. The only hair on my head that was noticeable were 300 mini-grafts that made up my hairline and the frontal half. I also had two wide donor scars stacked one over the other.

No one would ever look me in the eye because they were always looking at my hairline. There were 47 grafts making up my frontal hairline, from one temple all the way around to the other temple, with each graft consisting of no less than 10 hairs each with some having 15 to 20 hairs. I was never in a job that I could wear a hat so I simply learned to deal with it. After my divorce in late 2001 I had to do something to make myself look normal for the dating scene. Not good, not fantastic. Just normal. Enter Dr. Wong and H&W.

My first surgery with Dr. Wong was not performed with any plans for more work afterward. Dr. Wong pulled 2406 grafts from my donor area along with BOTH donor scars. This was in March 2002 where the largest virgin scalp sessions barely scratched the 2500 graft mark much less any higher. This was attributed to what Dr. Wong referred to as my “mutant” laxity. This was the time frame that “Jotronic” was born.

I created a website with my free Yahoo account to show my family that I was in good hands and that I wasn’t getting hacked up like I did before. I then showed a few guys on another forum some of my photos on my site. I included photos of my grafts being dissected, my grafts being placed and my procedure in general. NO ONE had EVER done this before. I then started showing my immediate post-op shots, my day 1, day 2, week 1, week 2, month 3, month 4 progress and so on. I documented my thoughts, my feelings, and what my hair looked like at various stages and in various locales in close to real time. I did not know what my result would truly be like but I was documenting it anyway. My site eventually evolved into it’s current iteration, Hair Transplant Mentor.com. I and one other patient of Dr. Hasson’s (Futzyhead) were the first patients to do this. I did this to show others what surgery is actually like and what to expect. I did this because no where else on the internet could this be found and I was contributing what I could to educate others.

Eventually hair greed set in since the first procedure turned out so well so I went in for #2 and continued my documentation. Shortly afterward I started working for H&W on SALARY not commission because I didn’t want anyone thinking that by having surgery my pockets would be lined just that much more.

Had I not been to Dr. Wong I would be more vocal about the evils of strip surgery than you or anyone else. I would have gone down the FUE route and who knows how I would have turned out but I can assure you this much. I would not have nearly the coverage I do now. No way, no how. I actually wanted to shave my head before anymore surgery but the one thing that stopped me was the graft work. Sure, I had two donor scars but the graft work, as shaved little stubbles, would have been far more difficult to explain.

So I’ve never worked for a clinic that did the old style work and have never tried to convince someone that plug work looks natural when obviously it didn’t. I was only a patient of one such clinic but now I am a patient of and work for a clinic that does some of the best work on the planet. The thing that separates us from your insulting MHR 1990 video reference is that our videos are publicly available, show more detail than any other clinic in the business, and are shot in HD with weekly updates. Oh, and we aren’t MHR, which should count for something:)

We want people to see as much detail as possible. No one on any forum can point to a single clinic that has more video results than we do, with as much detail in the comb throughs (showing the hair exiting the scalp), shot in HD and showing the donor scars and all angles of the result. We have over 100 such videos with new ones added weekly. We don’t hide behind bad lighting and funky angles. We don’t wet the hair in before photos and show dry hair in after photos. We don’t use blurry video screenshots. Did you know that I started a personal crusade several years ago to teach patients about how clinics trick them with photos? Flash photography makes hairlines looks twice as thick as reality. It also softens harsh coarse hairs in the hairline and completely misrepresents the truth. There are dozens of posts by me talking about this important yet somehow ignored topic. I have preached about this and encouraged other clinics to stop doing this. Some have listened but most have not.

Are we perfect? Of course not, but neither is anyone else but to reference us as outdated and obsolete is hardly fair much less accurate. The patients that come to us are not looking to shave their heads. They are looking for hair, be it densely packed, to cover a large area, to recreate the crown whorl or all of the above and they want it to look and behave naturally. The ones that do want to shave their heads, or admit that it is a possibility are thanked for their time and politely declined surgery. The notion that we are a mill because it isn’t one doctor doing all of the work is ridiculous. No one doctor can deliver the transformations that a highly skilled team can deliver. No one doctor can transform a high NW into a low Norwood in one session.

What you will not get from me are claims of no scarring. What you will not get from me is a smoke and mirrors show with blurry photos, poor lighting or photos taken from ten feet away claiming how good we are and how hard we work. You will not get a line saying that your results will look just like anyone else’s. You will not get a sob story to tear at your heart strings when I post a hard luck repair case.

What you WILL get from me are results from my clinic because that is what matters. The photos will be clear. The photos will be large. I will then post a high definition video showing even more details. I will show you as much of the result as the patient allows. I will answer questions about what we do honestly and without marketing BS designed to show you what good guys we are and how easy it is to talk to us. We are nice people but that is not what matters. The results are what matters.

So there is my history and who I am with regards to this field. I’m a patient first and am waiting patiently for my little soldiers to pop through from my latest HT with Dr. Wong just over two months ago. Oh, and my donor scar (singular)? I’m not going to shave my head for you but I can go shorter than one would think after 9360 grafts in four surgeries because Dr. Wong has done a solid job for me.

So, I wish you the best in your repair and truly hope that you get what you are looking for. I mean this too. I’ve seen Dr. Woods do solid work, online and in person, so I expect nothing less for you. But please, don’t jump into my threads with posts saying how strip sucks and it should be banned and how it is outdated and obsolete. It may be your opinion from your history (which is understandable) but just because we perform strip does not mean we do what everyone else does. Our history proves this.

The more i read the story the more i think people should stay away from transplants 4 surgeries in 9 years just for hair means cutting pieces of your scalp and ugly duckling phase for 4 years out of the 9. Add to that being a slave of propecia because if you stop it you might end up nw7 and then nothing saves you from the scars showing.

you must be very desperate to go through all this. I understand if you are a repair case like joe who wants to look normal again but for virgin scalps i say stay away from this thing becuase it never ends. Maybe autocloning or something will change that but until then a shaved scalp is the best, the most economical and carefree option

At least with FUE even if it doesnt work you can go back to look somehow normal again with a very short buzz. With strip you are almost doomed if something goes wrong…these operations are very expensive and very risky.

Well I am not totally sold- since it is still strip surgery. There really is nothing new to report on this technique other than the Tri closure technique. I still say stay with fue and a doctor that performs every aspect of this surgery. There will be happy clients from this clinic as well as non happy ones. This is the case from every clinic. I have pretty much received a miracle in sorts with Dr. Woods since almost every area of my scalp was disfigured. I started in 1986 with Dr. Deyarmen - Then of Beverly Hills and Had 2 surgeries with him- They were the very early surgeries at 21 who by the way were strip. Next was Nu- Hart of Pittsburgh, Pa. Dr Joel Siegal did two more surgeries of punch grafting. Next was Dr. Brandy whose “Hairlift” Procedure really did me in. The scarring was so bad on me that every person looked at my hairline and not me. Next was Bio-Medic who employed Dr. Shelly Friedman- He did strip and was not a bad Doctor. Then there must have been some sort of disagreement with him and they replaced him with Dr. Matt Leavitt ( MHR). He even gave me his home phone number at the time so I thought he was a great guy. Not so. By the time I was done with all of this I was used in a Info video for MHR.
They said I was happy- Not true at all. They grew my hair long and never did a shot of my back or sides. The video showed all of these supposedly happy clients. Well years later we all know how bad MHR is. I hope H&W does not follow this history. Perhaps they won’t. Many of the techniques though have no real breakthroughs other than the needle sizes are much smaller so yes the overall look is better today. But no Doctor can replicate on a high norwood scale a great looking head of Hair. If any clinic states this then they would have to use auxiliary hair from either the beard or Body. Thank God Dr. Woods did this for me because I only had about 700 scalp grafts and perhaps 600 nape area grafts. I now look really good from a frontal view. My crown is coming in better and the left side is looking much better. My right side which was just done in Sept of this year is still in the improving stage. I am truly glad that I received what I did. I never expected my teenage head of hair back and that is a very big point that I think HT people try to oversell. Dr. Woods did tell me that I would be greatly Improved but never oversold me so I was pleased he was so honest. In fact I have received much more than I ever expected to. Of course I am greedy to. We all want that full head of hair and nobody could ever tell me that this is not true. People must realize that in HT’s the supply is much more limited than the demand. This is very true in the Higher norwood scales. A young man losing his hair at 21 will most likely be very, very bald in later years. One must consider this in HT’s. So please do not sell these young men a pipe dream for a few years because later it will be a disaster. I have heard of proper planning but this is not always done. Again this industry does not have a good rap. In the outside world when I talk about HT’s there is very very little understanding of them. Most people think you will get this thick Elvis Presley head of hair. We all know this is not true and should be driven home to every client. I am glad I have what I have & am thankful I was able to ditch a full cap wig. Yes Dr. Woods has done a great job. I am just grateful for the Beard Hair because without this I would have never, ever been able to be repaired. Sorry for this long post but I try to be as insightful as I can be. Each and every prospective client should see in person as many patients as they can. Get off this net and spend a few days in the clinic you are considering. If for some reason the clinic will not let you do this run the other way. There should be no reason to hide any of there patients. If they are repair patients the clinic should inform you of this. A good Ht can give you a real lift on life but a bad one can give you a lifetime of problems. I also recommend seeing a few old videos one was on Dateline from 1997 called " Splitting hairs" Much of this info still holds true. Dr. Manny Merritt states " If something sounds too good to be true it probably is". The other report is from 1993 on 20/20. It featured Dr. Walter Unger on it. These reports are old but still hold much info that is insightful today. Perhaps you can access these from You- Tube. Not sure as I am not a computer Geek. Good luck again to all!!