Hello Dr. Nigam!
Please respond!
Yes,Jarjar…
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby]
Hello Dr. Nigam!
Please respond![/quote]
Dr. Nigam we need to put an end to baldness as soon as we can. And there is no reason to allow it to go on any further because now there is finally a potentially breakthrough treatment available - sort of. It’s not available everywhere but it is allowed to be sold in some places. For example, it can be sold in parts of Asia and in The Caribbean.
Lots of people still talking about Histogen’s HSC. Repeat treatments with Histogen’s HSC could be the big breakthrough we are all waiting for. But Hitogen’s HSC is owned by a company that won’t release it until it completes all phases of studies and that could be years since Histogen’s HSC is in a delay and has been in a delay for some time. Nobody knows when the delay will end.
But there’s a drug just like Histogen, but it’s probably better Histogen because the drug is what nature built to do the same job that Histogen is trying to do. Our own bodies produce the same growth factors to do the same thing that Histogen is trying to do. Those growth factors can be found inside of our own adipose stem cells. But It can’t be any adipose stem cells. It’s a very specific group of adipose stem cells. A company in Korea has found a way to extract these growth factors from (our own) correct adipose stem cells. It’s a treatment and it looks pretty effective. It’s basically a way to get Histogen, only maybe better, now instead of waiting years for Histogen and the FDA finally decide to release Histogen.
Nobody owns this treatment so we don’t have to wait on some company like Histogen to take the treatment through clinical trials. We don’t have to beg a company like Histogen to release it early somewhere and hear them say no. There’s a Korean company that will sell this stuff to a doctor as long as he’s using it in a lawful manner. The doctor would have to be using it on patient’s in a country that allows this treatment to be used. And there are countries that will allow this treatment to be used in their jurisdiction.
This means that all that needs to be accomplished is to set-up a clinic in a country where this treatment is legal and then legally give that treatment to patients. I figure it could be all set-up and running within 9 months.
This means we probably don’t have to be missing so much hair anymore.
If we stay missing so much hair longer it’s not because we have to stay that way, but rather it’s because we failed to do what we could do to solve the problem.
Nobody can stop us except ourselves. We’re no longer at the mercy of FDA and we are no longer at the mercy of big companies like Histogen. Now we are at the mercy of our own will and our own committment to do what needs to be done. It is now up to us if we stay missing a lot of hair or not. If we stay missing a lot of hair it will be our own fault and we can’t blame the FDA or some big company because it will be our own fault.
If we don’t do this then it’s a failing on our part because we could do it. If we don’t do it then our hair loss will be nobody’s fault except our own.
So you’re volunteering to be test subject number 1 right ?
Has anyone seen the photos posted elsewhere of hair growth from this? They are pretty amazing…
Here’s a background article on the science -
I don’t believe Dr. Nigam would consider setting up a clinic in The Bahamas until he first tried it in India. Indian law has changed so now the only person he can test this on in India is himself. So that means that Dr. Nigam would likely be the first person to try it. From what I gather from his recent emails to me I think he’s already evaluating trying it on himself.
Once Dr. Nigam tried it on himself then he would likely be willing to open a clinic in The Bahamas and I’m agreeable to being the first patient there.
We should use the AAPE/HARG not the adipose stem cells themselves because injecting the adipose stem cells may not work even though the AAPE/HARG comes from those cells.
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby]
I don’t believe Dr. Nigam would consider setting up a clinic in The Bahamas until he first tried it in India. Indian law has changed so now the only person he can test this on in India is himself. So that means that Dr. Nigam would likely be the first person to try it. From what I gather from his recent emails to me I think he’s already evaluating trying it on himself.
Once Dr. Nigam tried it on himself then he would likely be willing to open a clinic in The Bahamas and I’m agreeable to being the first patient there.
We should use the AAPE/HARG not the adipose stem cells themselves because injecting the adipose stem cells may not work even though the AAPE/HARG comes from those cells.[/quote]
Last time you said you were going to see him in Dec 2013, guess that never happened?
Nigam had tried different experiments on himself already, whatever happened to those experiments?
Results: All patients experienced increased hair growth
from the treatments with ADSC-CM. Four treatment sessions
performed within 3 to 4 months provided especially good
results. Scores on the visual analog scale increased with
treatment frequency. Statistical signifi cance was determined
by Friedman’s 2-way analysis of variance (P < .01) and
Wilcoxon’s signed rank test (P < .01).
See link
I guess you didn’t comprehend what I said in the past. Your perception of what I said in the past is incorrect. I said I would go to Dr. Nigam when he could produce “breakthrough results.” AAPE/HARG represents the first possibility for that degree of success.
As far as his previous experiments on himself goes: it doesn’t matter. Those were different experiments from the experiment I’m pressing for now. Different is different.
In hair enhancement, the ability to influence fibroblast migration enables the release of more cytokines and growth factors in the scalp that act to wake up dormant stem cells in the hair follicles. These two major discoveries promise ongoing skin and scalp enhancement that may stop the aging and/or hair loss processes. Additionally, ADSC-CM shows promise for the treatment of cutaneous wounds and accelerates granulation formation during the healing process.
See link
Will ReGenrXx™ work for everyone? Probably not. In initial clinical tests, the use of growth factors has resulted in new hair growth on some test subjects and has dramatically slowed or stopped unnatural hair loss on others. However, it appears to be more effective on individuals who are only losing their hair, not completely bald. While anecdotal evidence strongly suggests that the product grows new hair even on totally bald heads, the amount of hair may not be satisfactory from a cosmetic perspective.
See link
This is it. I’m right. This is our ticket out of our mess. All we have to do is set-up an AAPE/HARG clinic in The Bahamas and then we are home-free:
TEXT:
Hair growth stimulated by conditioned medium of adipose-derived stem cells is enhanced by hypoxia: evidence of increased growth factor secretion.
Adipose-derived stem cells (ADSCs) and their secretomes mediate diverse skin-regeneration effects, such as wound-healing and antioxidant protection, that are enhanced by hypoxia. We investigated the hair-growth-promoting effect of conditioned medium (CM) of ADSCs to determine if ADSCs and their secretomes regenerate hair and if hypoxia enhances hair regeneration. If so, we wanted to identify the factors responsible for hypoxia-enhanced hair-regeneration. We found that ADSC-CM administrated subcutaneously induced the anagen phase and increased hair regeneration in C(3)H/NeH mice. In addition, ADSC-CM increased the proliferation of human follicle dermal papilla cells (HFDPCs) and human epithelial keratinocytes (HEKs), which are derived from two major cell types present in hair follicles. We investigated the effect of hypoxia on ADSC function using the same animal model in which hypoxia increased hair regrowth. Forty-one growth factors in ADSC-CM from cells cultured under hypoxic or normoxic conditions were analyzed. The secretion of insulin-like growth factor binding protein (IGFBP)-1, IGFBP-2, macrophage colony-stimulating factor (M-CSF), M-CSF receptor, platelet-derived growth factor receptor-beta, and vascular endothelial growth factor was significantly increased by hypoxia, while the secretion of epithelial growth factor production was decreased. It is reasonable to conclude that ADSCs promote hair growth via a paracrine mechanism that is enhanced by hypoxia.
I hope it is not another 5 years. Do they say anything about the timeline?
You don’t understand. This treatment can already be used in some countries including some of the Caribbean countries. The thing is that we would have to figure out a way to get a clinic set-up in the Caribbean to use this medicine.
It would take about 5 - 10 years for it to become available in America or other developed nations.
This medicine is very similar to Histogen. If anything it would be more effective than Histogen. You see, Histogen is hair growing growth factors produced in a synthetic environment designed to mimic the natural biological environment that they are produced in the wild. But this other medicine is basically the same growth factors but they are produced in the actual environment that nature designed for them to be produced in - your own fat cells.
Nobody owns this stuff - AAPE/HARG. A company in Korea has figured out how to extract these cells from fat cells and this company is willing to sell this stuff to doctors in countries where this stuff is legal. But it’s not legal in many countries yet. It is legal in some Asian and some Caribbean countries.
So what this means is that we would have to get a doctor to open a clinic in Asia or the Caribbean so that doctor could order this medicine from the manufacturer and start dispensing it. The company that sells it is not going to sell it to anyone unless that person is a doctor working in a country where it is legal to dispense it.
If we can get a doctor to open a clinic in the Caribbean or Asia that doctor can start selling it to us legally and nobody can stop him because it’s all legal.
It’s legal and potentially available NOW! Not in 5 years…NOW!!!
If this the case then why is the company Korea trying to treat people and make billions? Why would they sell it to third party?
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by mm12[/postedby]
If this the case then why is the company Korea trying to treat people and make billions? Why would they sell it to third party?[/quote]
If you mean why isn’t the company in Korea trying to treat people and make billions, the answer is because they can still only sell it in countries where is legal, and it’s not legal in most of the developed world (USA, EU, etc.)
I think we’re so used to the idea that “money talks” that we think that if something works and can generate lots of profit for someone, it’s immediately going to find a natural market and break down all regulatory barriers that stand in its way.
So, people think that if someone claims to have a really good treatment that could theoretically make lots of money, if they’re not immediately selling it all over the world for billions, then something must be fishy and maybe it isn’t a good treatment after all. It’s like people think that if there are hundreds of millions of dollars to be made, somehow all the regulations standing in the way of that are going to vanish overnight.
Well, sometime that does happen, but in this case, things are actually a lot more complicated than that. Sometimes you have regulations that are so pervasive and regulatory authorities that are so powerful and persistent that they can block a good treatment from the market for a ridiculously long time, because they’re pursuing their own agendas and have the power and authority to do so.
And that’s the case here. The Korean company could probably make tens or hundreds of millions of dollars selling this stuff in the US, Canada, EU, etc. (depending on how well it works, of course), but the regulations in this case are like a 100-ft. high brick wall standing in their way, and these regulations are not going to vanish overnight.
Also – and this is a huge point – as Jarjar mentioned, this stuff is an extract of cultured cells. Cultured human adipose (fat) cells.
For that reason, it falls into a kind of gray area between a drug and a “biologic” (the FDA term for something like cells or biological product or derivative of cells). Regulations of this kind of product would probably fall under the aegis of the FDA division on Vaccines, Blood and Biologics:
http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/
Just figuring out how to regulate this kind of stuff (and this stuff is not just used for hair loss, it’s mainly used to treat a lot of different things), is so damn complicated, it could take years just for the FDA to figure out HOW to regulate it. And trust me, I know about these things.
That’s not even taking into consideration that there are huge commercial pressures on the FDA to keep it banned. These pressures come from the US pharmaceutical industry. Why? Because if more doctors used more biologics like this, and they worked, then they’d prescribe fewer drugs. And doctors don’t really need big pharmaceutical companies to manufacture biologics for them to use. Theoretically, with the right equipment and knowledge, products like this could be extracted from the cells in a small private lab, in a medical clinic or at least by a small biotechnology firm.
Plus, in this case you have the added complication that the biologics come from stem cells. Although most of the public controversy about stem cells has been about embryonic stem cells, the fact is that for partially political reasons, the FDA is very adverse to permitting clinical uses of ANY kind of stem cells – embryonic, adult somatic, adipose, induced pluripotent, you name it. Permission is basically granted only on a case-by-case basis, i.e., like experimenting with stem cells to treat Parkinson’s disease.
And even for something like Parkinson’s, the approval process is not certain and can drag on…
I would like to see this stuff being offered by clinics around the world in jurisdictions where it is legal.
I think this stuff is a great opportunity to “test the waters” and see how much of our miniaturized follicles we can recover. I think this stuff is promising and it needs to be available somewhere.
On the other hand, I don’t think that this will be a miracle cure by any means, for most of us. The big opportunity for a potential cure, in my view, is still with Dr. Christiano, Dr. Jahoda, Dr. Xu at University of Pennsylvania (a colleague of Dr. Cotsarelis) and even the work Dr. Lauster and his colleagues are doing in Berlin, and also that some scientists in Japan and Taiwan (Taiwan National University) are doing along these same lines – figuring out how to culture dermal papilla cells so they remain inductive, and/or creating de novo hair follicles.
If the company can sell its product to some doctors in countries where the law doesn’t stop stem cell use then someone like doctor Nigam can be used. If this is the case then we can have this product in a matter of months. But in the past he failed with his promises. My question was if this was already produced in Korea then selling from Korea would be illegal to other countries?
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by mm12[/postedby]
If the company can sell its product to some doctors in countries where the law doesn’t stop stem cell use then someone like doctor Nigam can be used. If this is the case then we can have this product in a matter of months. But in the past he failed with his promises. My question was if this was already produced in Korea then selling from Korea would be illegal to other countries?[/quote]
I’m not sure what the law is in Korea for sellers shipping to countries where a medication or medical formulation is illegal for clinical use.
I’m not even sure if it’s legal to use this stuff clinically in Korea. If it is, and it might be, they should just set up a clinic there and treat medical tourists from around the world. My guess is it’s not legal in Korea except in experiments or clinical trials, and you’d have to actually reside there to be a trial subject.
As for legality from the buyer’s standpoint, I believe that a person purchasing most unapproved drugs from abroad (except for drugs at the top of the the FDA’s controlled substance list, in what they call Schedule I), if the amount purchased is small and it’s only for the person’s own use, would probably not trigger law enforcement. But don’t quote me on this, there are always exceptions.
But the question is, would the Korean company actually agree to ship the product to a country like the US where it’s not approved? Chinese companies do this all the time, but a South Korean company might not do so, as its regulatory agencies probably have closer ties with the FDA and might even have reciprocal agreements in place to abide by each other’s laws on sale and shipping of regulated substances.
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by mm12[/postedby]
If the company can sell its product to some doctors in countries where the law doesn’t stop stem cell use then someone like doctor Nigam can be used. If this is the case then we can have this product in a matter of months. But in the past he failed with his promises. My question was if this was already produced in Korea then selling from Korea would be illegal to other countries?
[postedby]Originally Posted by roger_that[/postedby]
I’m not sure what the law is in Korea for sellers shipping to countries where a medication or medical formulation is illegal for clinical use.
I’m not even sure if it’s legal to use this stuff clinically in Korea. If it is, and it might be, they should just set up a clinic there and treat medical tourists from around the world. My guess is it’s not legal in Korea except in experiments or clinical trials, and you’d have to actually reside there to be a trial subject.
As for legality from the buyer’s standpoint, I believe that a person purchasing most unapproved drugs from abroad (except for drugs at the top of the the FDA’s controlled substance list, in what they call Schedule I), if the amount purchased is small and it’s only for the person’s own use, would probably not trigger law enforcement. But don’t quote me on this, there are always exceptions.
But the question is, would the Korean company actually agree to ship the product to a country like the US where it’s not approved? Chinese companies do this all the time, but a South Korean company might not do so, as its regulatory agencies probably have closer ties with the FDA and might even have reciprocal agreements in place to abide by each other’s laws on sale and shipping of regulated substances.[/quote]
South Korea and the US and developed nations are all very closely related. The US is a major part of South Korea’s defense force against North Korea and China. There is no way South Korea is going to flaunt western regulatory agencies, especially the FDA, by selling unlawful medical treatments to the United States or other developed western nations.
Keep in mind that just because a treatment is not lawful in the United States or other developed western nations does not mean that, that treatment is not lawful elsewhere. For example, India used to allow cell culture and implantation at the commercial level until recently when India changed their laws.
I assume that AAPE/HARG must be legal in South Korea because it has been used in South Korea. It has also been used in Japan, I think. Asia has different laws when it comes to cell therapies.
Also, part of why AAPE/HARG can’t be sold in America and western nations has to do with cell culture of stem cells. It’s illegal in America and developed Western nations. Stem cell culturing is legal in The Bahamas now.
Of course before we opened the clinic in The Bahamas we would have to make sure that the South Korean would sell AAPE/HARG to a clinic set-up in The Bahamas, and I admit that this is an assumption I’ve made, but it’s an assumption based on common sense and facts as follow:
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Companies are in business to sell product(s).
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The South Korean company that makes AAPE/HARG is already willing to sell AAPE/HARG and we know this because the company has sold this medicine to doctors in a few Asian companies that could lawfully buy it.
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Since the South Korean company has sold AAPE/HARG to doctor/researchers that could lawfully purchase it, I assume this means that the South Korean company would sell AAPE/HARG to any doctor/researcher that could lawfully purchase it.
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The laws in a few locations, Asia and some parts of the Caribbean and perhaps Latin America and South America, allow commercial cell culture of stem cells. In particular, The Bahamas just passed legislation allowing it. I believe that this means that AAPE/HARG would be legal in those locations. I admit that I’m not 100% sure of this but I do believe I’m right. Right now, in The Bahamas they are culturing and injecting embryonic stem cells into a man named Peter Nygard.
He is trying to set-up an embryonic stem cell clinic in The Bahamas. He needed to get some laws in The Bahamas instituted in order to be able to do this. He lobbied and got the necessary laws in place. He is right now having these cultured stem cells injected to himself. He says he plans to open an age-reversal embryonic stem cell clinic in The Bahamas, but I don’t know if that is really on his radar. He may have just told that to Bahamian officials so he could get them to change laws to allow him to culture and inject these cells into himself. Perhaps if he restores his own youth he will then pack up and leave The Bahamas and not bother selling the treatments to other people. In any case, the thing is that he got the laws installed to allow him to do this stuff legally at the commercial level and I think this means that the laws there are now sufficient that we could conduct AAPE/HARG therapy in The Bahamas.
I admit that I’m ASSUMING some things but the assumptions I’m making seemed like safe assumptions. But now you have me wondering if we should be contacting the South Korean company to see where they will sell AAPE/HARG for commercial purposes. Does anyone speak Korean?
I met dr nigam on my follow up and he informed that it would not be possible for him to send his fat sample to Korea due to the customs restrictions of the the 2 countries , however he said he would try and replicate the same in his lab but it would take at least 2 months for him to do so and would test it on himself , also he is scheduled to go to Korea in a few months to procure some equipments and would try and see if the said company would be willing to do the procedure on him , furthermore he added that he was quite excited about the paper which Desmond had posted which has got him thinking in new direction
as regards my progress i will post on the thread i started
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by missinghair[/postedby]
I met dr nigam on my follow up and he informed that it would not be possible for him to send his fat sample to Korea due to the customs restrictions of the the 2 countries , however he said he would try and replicate the same in his lab but it would take at least 2 months for him to do so and would test it on himself , also he is scheduled to go to Korea in a few months to procure some equipments and would try and see if the said company would be willing to do the procedure on him , furthermore he added that he was quite excited about the paper which Desmond had posted which has got him thinking in new direction
as regards my progress i will post on the thread i started[/quote]
Great! I’m glad to hear that Dr. Nigam will try to get the Korean company to do the treatment on himself by the Korean company. He needs to try this so that we can find out about it. Also, if he meets with the Korean company that will get us an opening with the Korean company. Please keep us updated.
And please also tell me which paper by Desmond has Dr. Nigam thinking in a new direction.