» -------------------
» # Shooter
» 8/9/10 2:38 pm
»
» Just talked to one of the Aderans research sites by my house. I couldn’t
» get in on the trial because I didn’t meet the criteria, but I found out
» some interesting things.
»
» 1) They inject 2 million cells per injection, with 10 injections per
» centimeter of scalp.
»
» 2) They have you use Rogaine during the trial… which I don’t
» understand.
»
» 3) The study is rolling, which means that some people have already been
» treated, and there are a lot that have yet to be treated. In other words,
» not all trialists get injections at the same time.
»
» 4) She said they have seen hair growth in people, but that it’s “never
» going to give you what you had at 15 years old. It’s not designed to do
» that.”
»
» I think it would be really helpful if some other people would call their
» local research site and ask some questions about the trial too.
»
» Good questions could include:
»
» Time to market?
» Has it worked in people?
» Why Rogaine?
» Etc.
»
» If we all get proactive, it will really ease the waiting.
» ----------------
»
» Thanks to @Shooter!
Some more insights …
ZZ
8/10/10 11:19 am
I just spoke to another one of the trial centers and here is what I found out:
There are no placebos. Everyone gets a real treatment.
2)They are looking for subjects that have as liitle hair as possible, preferably some patch that is slick bald….you may be excluded if you have more than just a minimum of straggling hairs in the bald area. This is mainly for ease of seeing the results.
They can inject an area that is up to 3 inches by 3 inches in a 4-5 hour time frame. They won’t do more than that. You have to have the injections within 24-48 hours after they recieve the cell cultures back.
They require you to use minoxidil “all over your head” for 4 weeks prior to extraction of the donor hairs. Then you are required to use minoxidil throughout the trial. She did not know why they required the use of minoxidil but it is required to be used in the donor area prior to extraction.
5)Since the trial recently started at this center and she does not work in the lab she said she did not know about any of the results yet. Apparently, when you get approved as a subject, the trial starts for that subject so some subjects might be 4-6 months in when another is just starting. She did not know how long enrollment would be open.
She said with great confidnece that there were no safety concerns.
She had no estimate of time to market.
However, she was very upbeat about the trail. She said this is a very exciting time and that all of the subjects who have started the trial are ecstatic. So it sounds like there is a great deal of internal ethusiasm about the prospects for this treatment. She told me to feel free to call back in the future with any questions and that she will let me know what she is able to observe in terms of results, assuming that is allowed. But I got the impression that they have not been instructed in advance to keep every detail top secret.
The atmosphere seemed relaxed and it was a very upbeat coversation!
yes, I remember the pig study. Laser cavities, matrigel, ingrown hairs, and 1 hair per implant (mouse get many hairs per injection). Very interesting.
» » IronMan, why do you say they are not using scaffolds?
» »
» » Is this a joke? Shooter!??
»
» Of course, they use a sort of “scaffold”, but more accurate in form of an
» extracellular matrix (ECM) GEL, because the different cell types have to
» clump in the 1st step. So in fact they inject a sort of “cell seeds”,
» whereby these “seeds” consists of the different pre-clumped cell types
» (look at ARIs video/animation on their website).
»
» So all in all it sounds they work according to their “pig-study”:
» http://www.aderansresearch.com/pdfs/PUBLICATION_ARI_Ab_HH07.pdf
»
» ABSTRACT:
» ------------
» “Cells were combined with Matrigel™ (a surrogate
» extracellular matrix) and implanted at various depths.”
» ------------
»
» » If this is true, (OMG, I hope it is not),I think the Japanese investors
» » should have Washenik, Barrows, Stenn and company CASTRATED,
» DECAPITATED,
» » AND FÜCKED IN THE ASSS for being such a bunch of…
» » okay, they have been for 10 years burning japanese money for this?
»
» Correct!
okay, thanks ZZ and IronMan.
Well, right now its difficult to know what to think.
-The 3x3 inches is a big area. This is good news.
-They are seeking to treat very bald areas, this is also good news.
But the minoxidil thing, the 70% response rate, and the low regrowth seen in the published photos, are a reason to doubt.
jeez, why this waiting has to be so painful?
» » -------------------
» » # Shooter
» » 8/9/10 2:38 pm
» »
» » Just talked to one of the Aderans research sites by my house. I
» couldn’t
» » get in on the trial because I didn’t meet the criteria, but I found out
» » some interesting things.
» »
» » 1) They inject 2 million cells per injection, with 10 injections per
» » centimeter of scalp.
» »
» » 2) They have you use Rogaine during the trial… which I don’t
» » understand.
» »
» » 3) The study is rolling, which means that some people have already been
» » treated, and there are a lot that have yet to be treated. In other
» words,
» » not all trialists get injections at the same time.
» »
» » 4) She said they have seen hair growth in people, but that it’s “never
» » going to give you what you had at 15 years old. It’s not designed to
» do
» » that.”
» »
» » I think it would be really helpful if some other people would call
» their
» » local research site and ask some questions about the trial too.
» »
» » Good questions could include:
» »
» » Time to market?
» » Has it worked in people?
» » Why Rogaine?
» » Etc.
» »
» » If we all get proactive, it will really ease the waiting.
» » ----------------
» »
» » Thanks to @Shooter!
»
» Some more insights …
»
» ----------------------
» # ZZ
» 8/10/10 11:19 am
»
» I just spoke to another one of the trial centers and here is what I found
» out:
»
» 1) There are no placebos. Everyone gets a real treatment.
»
» 2)They are looking for subjects that have as liitle hair as possible,
» preferably some patch that is slick bald….you may be excluded if you have
» more than just a minimum of straggling hairs in the bald area. This is
» mainly for ease of seeing the results.
»
» 3) They can inject an area that is up to 3 inches by 3 inches in a 4-5
» hour time frame. They won’t do more than that. You have to have the
» injections within 24-48 hours after they recieve the cell cultures back.
»
» 4) They require you to use minoxidil “all over your head” for 4 weeks
» prior to extraction of the donor hairs. Then you are required to use
» minoxidil throughout the trial. She did not know why they required the
» use of minoxidil but it is required to be used in the donor area prior to
» extraction.
»
» 5)Since the trial recently started at this center and she does not work in
» the lab she said she did not know about any of the results yet.
» Apparently, when you get approved as a subject, the trial starts for that
» subject so some subjects might be 4-6 months in when another is just
» starting. She did not know how long enrollment would be open.
»
» 6) She said with great confidnece that there were no safety
» concerns.
»
» 7) She had no estimate of time to market.
»
» However, she was very upbeat about the trail. She said this is a very
» exciting time and that all of the subjects who have started the trial
» are ecstatic. So it sounds like there is a great deal of internal
» ethusiasm about the prospects for this treatment. She told me to feel free
» to call back in the future with any questions and that she will let me know
» what she is able to observe in terms of results, assuming that is allowed.
» But I got the impression that they have not been instructed in advance to
» keep every detail top secret.
» The atmosphere seemed relaxed and it was a very upbeat coversation!
» --------------------
»
» Thank’s to ZZ!
“She did not know why they required the use of minoxidil but it is required to be used in the donor area prior to extraction.”
I don’t know why they would specify using Minox on the donor area ahead of time if it is irrelevant to the HM process. This may suggest that Minox plays a role in the process itself.
Let’s not forget that the way Minox actually helps hair is not very well understood in the first place.
Either way, we don’t know anything until phase#2 results come back.
I agree the whole picture is not shaping up well though. I still have faith in ARI but it is much more shaky than it was a year ago.
I’ve been thinking the same thing… Go for a aggressive hairline and fill in the temples and fill in the middle a bit, hope the propecia maintains the rest until a real treatment emerges… Is that really a bad idea considering the current situation?
My other question is WHY on earth would the product not be aimed toward giving us teenage density again, that makes no sense, they should be trying to test for the best possible product not something mediocre that can give us a little bit more. Maybe only during this phase 2 trail are they injecting less cells into the scalp and that’s why she said it? If not, I would be very upset, I really do feel like they should be striving on giving everyone a REAL FULL head of hair.
» my hair is not a thick as it used to be, thinning at the temples, and a bit
» behind the front forelock which is really thick
»
» I need 2000 grafts and these grafts will b places in area that have no
» hair 1mm 2
»
» Im going to hold out till may, if nothing FUE and hope something comes
» out. If not i might need another HT
But i will definitely use the GHO Method thats for sure.
» » Reminds when Gho did panphlets saying that he has developed HM
» technology
» » with cells. It was many years ago and of course it was a BIG LIE. Gho
» » heavily lied.
»
» Reminds when your psycho-friend Spanish Dude bashed heavily Dr.
» Naughton from Histogen Inc, because she said in a video that she has
» developed HM technology with embryonic-like cells, and SP thought this is
» just a big lie and she cannot give him immediatelly a full head of hair.
» And here is the proof …
What kind of stupid are you?
Are you saying that Gho didn’t publish panflets stating that he was cloning cells and creating new hairs by injecting back those cells?
» » » Reminds when Gho did panphlets saying that he has developed HM
» » technology
» » » with cells. It was many years ago and of course it was a BIG LIE. Gho
» » » heavily lied.
» »
» » Reminds when your psycho-friend Spanish Dude bashed heavily Dr.
» » Naughton from Histogen Inc, because she said in a video that she has
» » developed HM technology with embryonic-like cells, and SP thought this
» is
» » just a big lie and she cannot give him immediatelly a full head of
» hair.
» » And here is the proof …
» What kind of stupid are you?
» Are you saying that Gho didn’t publish panflets stating that he was
» cloning cells and creating new hairs by injecting back those cells?
»
» I repeat. What kind of stupid are you?
To answer your former question, no iam unfortunately not a jewish person, but actually i was going to convert
» » So do they have a time when phase II ends? God dam should i just get an
» FUE
» » now??
»
» Thats the same question iam asking myself, to put everything in my front
» and hope for the freaking best.
»
» Iam only glad i didnt do a HT before
Jesus Leeroy… you are 17 fu***kin years old, dont do this thing to yourself.
HT is not for you at least for the next 4 years
» yes, I remember the pig study. Laser cavities, matrigel, ingrown hairs, and
» 1 hair per implant (mouse get many hairs per injection). Very interesting.
»
» » » IronMan, why do you say they are not using scaffolds?
» » »
» » » Is this a joke? Shooter!??
» »
» » Of course, they use a sort of “scaffold”, but more accurate in form of
» an
» » extracellular matrix (ECM) GEL, because the different cell types have
» to
» » clump in the 1st step. So in fact they inject a sort of “cell seeds”,
» » whereby these “seeds” consists of the different pre-clumped cell types
» » (look at ARIs video/animation on their website).
» »
» » So all in all it sounds they work according to their “pig-study”:
» » http://www.aderansresearch.com/pdfs/PUBLICATION_ARI_Ab_HH07.pdf
» »
» » ABSTRACT:
» » ------------
» » “Cells were combined with Matrigel™ (a surrogate
» » extracellular matrix) and implanted at various depths.”
» » ------------
» »
» » » If this is true, (OMG, I hope it is not),I think the Japanese
» investors
» » » should have Washenik, Barrows, Stenn and company CASTRATED,
» » DECAPITATED,
» » » AND FÜCKED IN THE ASSS for being such a bunch of…
» » » okay, they have been for 10 years burning japanese money for this?
» »
» » Correct!
I’m pretty sure Minoxidil helps to keep all hair follicles in the growing stage.
Maybe this is important for doing hair counts–so you don’t miss any.
And/Or maybe it’s important to ensure that the follicles being harvested for multiplying are in the growth phase. Because somehow the follicles being in the growth phase is important for multiplying their cells.
» “She did not know why they required the use of minoxidil but
» it is required to be used in the donor area prior to extraction.”
»
»
» I don’t know why they would specify using Minox on the donor area ahead of
» time if it is irrelevant to the HM process. This may suggest that Minox
» plays a role in the process itself.
»
» Let’s not forget that the way Minox actually helps hair is not very well
» understood in the first place.
»
»
I am pretty sure that all minoxidil does is keep hair follicles in the growing phase for longer.
For example, maybe 20 of the follicles on your head are not growing hair at any one time, they are in what is called the resting stage.
In effect, the follicles take turns growing hair.
But minoxidil forces all the follicles to grow, so that none are in the resting phase.
I saw this plainly for myself: after about a year on minox, when I combed my hair against its direction of growth, there were absolutely no short hairs springing back. All the hairs on my head were long.
If my follicles were cycling normally, some hairs would be younger than others, and so shorter than others.
So minoxidil results in about twenty-percent more hair.
It definitely helped me, giving me just enough extra density to squeak by.
But after about a year and a half, either the effect wore off or the continued progression of mpb caused me lose 20 percent more hair, thereby nullifying the gain from minoxidil. One or the other, or possibly both.
» I’m pretty sure Minoxidil helps to keep all hair follicles in the growing
» stage.
»
» Maybe this is important for doing hair counts–so you don’t miss any.
»
» And/Or maybe it’s important to ensure that the follicles being harvested
» for multiplying are in the growth phase. Because somehow the follicles
» being in the growth phase is important for multiplying their cells.
Yes, Ahab, I remember something about this. I think in HTs, they use Minoxidil in the recipient area, to ensure the grafts keep growing and don’t fall out.
But in this case, it makes no sense, because the contributions of Minoxidil and cell therapy will be mixed and they won’t be able to know what is the contribution of each factor.
It would be logical if they used Minoxidil in just 1 of the 4 areas of the scalp, but instead, they are applying it all over the scalp and in all patients of at least 2 trial centers.
» But in this case, it makes no sense, because the contributions of
» Minoxidil and cell therapy will be mixed and they won’t be able to know
» what is the contribution of each factor.
» It would be logical if they used Minoxidil in just 1 of the 4 areas of the
» scalp, but instead, they are applying it all over the scalp and in all
» patients of at least 2 trial centers.
If they are doing trials in areas of the trial subjects heads where there is little or no hair remaining, then the results shouldn’t be distorted by using minoxidil, because I’m pretty sure minox only works in places where there are still working follicles.
That the best minox does is keep follicles from entering the resting phase, and to awaken those follicles that are in the resting phase.
That should result in about 15-20 percent more hair.
So for example, if you do an HM trial on a 3" x 3" square that has only 8 hairs growing in it, then the minox alone would give another 2 hairs.
If I’m right (and I usually am), the use of minox won’t skewer the results if the test areas are bald enough to begin with.
» If they are doing trials in areas of the trial subjects heads where there
» is little or no hair remaining, then the results shouldn’t be distorted by
» using minoxidil, because I’m pretty sure minox only works in places where
» there are still working follicles.
»
» That the best minox does is keep follicles from entering the resting
» phase, and to awaken those follicles that are in the resting phase.
»
» That should result in about 15-20 percent more hair.
»
» So for example, if you do an HM trial on a 3" x 3" square that has only 8
» hairs growing in it, then the minox alone would give another 2 hairs.
In my short experience with Minoxidil, I saw terminal hairs growing in the frontline where it was completely bald before. This is 1 zillion percent increase. Things cannot be evaluated with a simple percentage increase.
In some patients, there are few hairs but a lot of follicles ready to be awaken.
And in any case, if ARI obtains 2 new hairs in that 3x3 inch area, they could say that this is minoxidil-like result, and consider it “viable”, according to Washenik’s definition.
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