Is it true Hitzig does not do fue? It’s a shame if the Acell stuff can only be done for strip patients at his clinic.
Yes, it’s true. The same for Dr. Jerry Cooley – but Cooley is another subject …
Anyway, we discussed this issue (Hitzig/FUT) already on HairSite:
http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/forum_entry-id-75808-page-0-category-0-order-last_answer.html
Concerning “it’s a shame” …
In my opinion, everything just depends on IF, and that is a huge IF, whether or not Dr. Hitzig (contrary to Dr. Cooley’s first negative results) is able to produce CONSISTENT strip “scar” results like those:
http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/board_entry-id-74603-page-0-order-time-category-0.html
… or those:
But even so, you will still lose about 70 – 80% (estimated) of the removed STRIP SIZE (including the follicles within the removed strip) in your donor area. The other 20 – 30% of the entire STRIP SIZE should be (hopefully) REGENERATED in your donor area. On the other hand, if someone ACCEPTS this (still a loss on donor area in general, loss of follicles in your donor in particular), and someone got an excellent and almost really no “visible scar” too, nor face any other “strip side effects” - where is the problem concerning your donor?
For instance: Some users in another hair loss board suggested for large bald areas 1) an excellent (acell-)strip procedure, and IF everything works as expected 2) they suggest to fill up “the rest” with e.g. Dr. Gho’s HST procedure. Sure, could for some guys make sense …
All in all, everything (including every wet dream) just depends on the big “IF” as well as calculations concerning costs on the other hand.
Ok good points. Here is my explanation why iam against FUT on an average virgin scalp baldie.
I agree that someone who had FUT in the past with or without good scarresults should get the scar fixed to make it less to almost zero visible, thats ok.
But as someone without any operation in the past i would choose another way.
-
First i would wait until end of 2011 or beginning of 2012
-
After that i would consider hairplucking with Acell. Why? First of all hairloss is progressive, so you have to accumulate, that it can be possible that your hairloss will progress further and your donor will turn southwards. If you use meds or not it can happen but it hasnt to be.
But better save then sorry here
The benefit here is, that you can get some things fixed with plucking. The Downside its not cheap and it took some time (a operation will be more days i assume).
Benefits : Your donor is still fully complete and the transplanted hairs are permanent. (I exclude autocloned hairs because we dont know if they are persitant)
- Lets say your hairloss did further progress with the years, now you maybe have another option due to the time which has passed. Lets say FUE Multiplication (or lets call it HST for easy understanding) has been very well established.
Then you can easily fill in frontal gaps (if there are some) and you can progress to the back area of your head.
Result : Donor is intact but not 100% anymore, more of lets say 90 to 95%
- Lets say after another few years you lost hair again but not that drastically, well know you can say "Ok for the short rest where i need only 2000 Grafts or so i use normal FUE and then iam finally finished.
And as you Iron.Man i predict at this point in time there will be more docs performing their surgeries with Acell.
So as a Resumee : Hairloss these days shouldnt fright us anymore because everyone or almost everyone can get their hair back but it all depends on a more or less perfect and individual rational plan.
Also i browsed through some of the newer results at hairtransplants, and i dont know why but some transplants from the same docs look better now then they did before. And some people automatically asked some questions like : “Did you use Acell or any other healing enhancements”
From a surgical standpoint i would say that a cure to hairloss is done or at least almost completed (the hair plucking though has to be guided better to get it more viable)
If some guys are planning to get a hairtransplant, maybe you should ask your doc to do a Acell plucking testside in a small scale.
There is no perfect strategy, because everyone is an individual person and therefore its difficult to estimate the perfect guide. But one thing should be a common denominator here
“Donor regeneration/preservation/expanding should be the highest priority”
And more important the big IF. Thats absolutely correct. But it is also in our lets say interest to get docs on the right track, so i would say that guys from here ring their docs to get them involved. The more the better and for the sake of it, it will cut down the price tag and its more likely to get consitent and faster results.
One User here Billy i guess, had a list of docs to be contacted. I think that now should be the time for the hairloss community to get involved because you US guys have the benefit of Acell being approved, in europe well thats another sad story.
But we still don’t have definitive proof that the plucking thing works.
We can be sure when we see several cases go from NW6 to NWI just with plucked hairs. right?
» But we still don’t have definitive proof that the plucking thing works.
»
» We can be sure when we see several cases go from NW6 to NWI just with
» plucked hairs. right?
With the single plucked hairs, you will always need exact 2.5 times longer for that like with HST procedures.
Yes, I know, math has never been that easy for some people.
» 1) First i would wait until end of 2011 or beginning of 2012
»
» 2) After that i would consider hairplucking with Acell. Why?
Why? I guess because it’s so cheap?
And you called Dr. Gho “a bastard” for charging $6-7 per ~2.5 plucked hairs all at once?
» With the single plucked hairs, you will always need exact 2.5 times
» longer for that like with HST procedures.
»
» Yes, I know, math has never been that easy for some people.
Clearly math is difficult for you and expressing yourself is also very difficult for you.
I am not fond of asking to ban anybody but in your case I understand why so many people dispise you. You just insult left and right.
Can you show me clear proof that plucked hairs work? I guess not. You just insult.
Yes it will take 2 -3 times longer because those are single hairs and no Grafts.
A Grafts consists of around 2 hairs at average so you need 2 single hairs to create a graft.
@Iron.Man iam waiting till 2011/2012 because as you already said there will be other docs with Acell and/or plucking, thats one sure thing
@buglar : Plucked hairs work as long as the tissue is around the hair itself. Luckily for us this is one of the essential key faktores.
Cause if it wasnt for the tissue, we would have serious problems, when it comes to FUE.
Also plucking hairs does also work without Acell BUT i think that the yield is so little and bad that it would take a sh*tload of years to be complete restored.
As Dr Hitzig mentioned, he uses Acell as an enhancer of the yield rate. Because even if a plucked hair is somehow “broken” with Acell you have a way better chance that it will grow normal.
Why those hairs are not affected by DHT at all is because most of the key material is from the DHT resistant donor area (the hair itself, the tissue. SO even if the follicle would be formed, The hair already got the DHT resistant “genes” in it.
Plucking may be around for some years but Acell hasnt so thats a major downside here because now plucking has to be more “efficient” and thats the major problem here.
And i think thats exactly what they gonna try and why the price tag is THAT high. Lets be honest, if the price would be 1 dollar per one single hair, a huge wave of people would crash Dr Hitzigs place and the experiments would totally come to a hold here because he would all the time only transplant hairs and hairs and hairs.
But the efficiancy wouldnt be improved.
Remember as long as you have the tissue around, its not a problem but a tedious thing to perform.
Ok how long would it take for a NW7 to get to a NW1 with plucking :
Assuming you could transplant 1000 hairs at tops per day and 4000 (2000 Grafts) per session and the session can be done again after around 6 month…
Its freaking long, even when you consider Gho working with HST it would take relatively long.
It would look otherwise if there would be an improvement of the plucking itself, to get an almost 100% yield rate. You wouldnt need that much hairs anymore (for example 1000 plucked hairs give lets say 700 useful tissue ones)
I believe there should be put more effort in getting plucking more efficient, and i thin Iron.Man would agree with that. Btw i am thankful that right now the discussions here are Good, i mean really good and of course useful.
And for the record, as you can see the HST Grafts are “identical” to pluckd hairs in the way, that there is not the follicle itself at the under part of the graft.
Remember one thing if you stance out the whole follicle from the Donor side, its gone for good there wont be no follicle regrowing and there wont be a follicle anymore to do plucking.
Everything has its downsides when it comes to efficency, the problem is a simple nature, if ht docs arent willing to try it, it will always be something promising but out of reach due to price tags or availability.
The great benefit of Plucking is, you can create almost or you can for sure your original density and the characteristics of a single hair are almost PERFECT for creating the perfect frontal area.
I have a rhetorical but intersting question for you especially Iron.Man.
“If plucking would be the exact price like Gho and the same outcome, would you prefer Gho or would you go for plucking” lets forget time as a problem here for one second and look only at the results
» @buglar : Plucked hairs work as long as the tissue is around the hair
» itself.
That is not right! Some Docs caim that plucked hairs work as long as the tissue is around the hair, but there`s not a single proof!
There is no randomized, double blind, placebo controlled study. There are no serious pics. So it is claim from docs - nothing more and nothing less;-)
» » @buglar : Plucked hairs work as long as the tissue is around the hair
» » itself.
»
» That is not right! Some Docs caim that plucked hairs work as long as the
» tissue is around the hair, but there`s not a single proof!
»
» There is no randomized, double blind, placebo controlled study. There are
» no serious pics. So it is claim from docs - nothing more and nothing
» less;-)
Im not sure a randomized, double blind, placebo trail is what is required for surgical procedures… How do you perform a placebo operation? Do you suggest pretending to be implanting hairs into the patients head? It’s not a medical substance which is being trailed here.
I also dont really agree that Hitzig and Cooley have not shown any evidence… they both genuinely seem to be going through great lengths to document their work and have presented photographic evidence in their presentations. Compare it to what Gho has delivered so far. I personally dont think that Gho is a scäm. I just dont feel that he is revealing enough information.
Personally, what I would like to see, is a circular tattoo around a bald spot and a circular tattoo around an equally large donor spot. Then post-surgical photographs of the implanted and grown-in hairs on the bald spot and the full (or nearly full) regrowth in the circular area… if they can show such photographic evidence on a reasonable number of patients (for me 3-4 would be more than enough). then i will be bought and fully convinced.
» Im not sure a randomized, double blind, placebo trail is what is required
» for surgical procedures… How do you perform a placebo operation? Do you
» suggest pretending to be implanting hairs into the patients head? It’s not
» a medical substance which is being trailed here.
Oh, I thought they used Acell?! Didnt they? This Acell stuff is FDA approved for wound healing - but is it FDA approved for hair growth(in human being)? AFAIK up to now its only in the use of veterinary surgeon. Or is there any Doc that uses Acell in therapy of humans?
Some Docs call this Acell thing “junk-science”
» » Im not sure a randomized, double blind, placebo trail is what is
» required
» » for surgical procedures… How do you perform a placebo operation? Do you
» » suggest pretending to be implanting hairs into the patients head? It’s
» not
» » a medical substance which is being trailed here.
»
» Oh, I thought they used Acell?! Didnt they? » This Acell stuff is FDA approved for wound healing - but is it FDA approved » for hair growth(in human being)? » AFAIK up to now its only in the use of veterinary surgeon. Or is there any
» Doc that uses Acell in therapy of humans?
»
»
» Some Docs call this Acell thing “junk-science”
» Regrown finger is 'junk science' | Medical research | The Guardian
Some docs? There is one guy names Professor Kay who says its junk science. Also this article is from 2008. As far as i know Acell was relatively new around this time
Here are some other links : Extracellular matrix - Wikipedia
And here is a fine video but beware the articicial moving heart really freaks me out
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6711905n&tag=mncol;lst;1
» » With the single plucked hairs, you will always need exact 2.5 times
» » longer for that like with HST procedures.
» »
» » Yes, I know, math has never been that easy for some people.
» ------------------------
» Clearly math is difficult for you and expressing yourself is also very
» difficult for you.
» I am not fond of asking to ban anybody but in your case I understand why so
» many people dispise you. You just insult left and right.
From your mouth to God’s ear, Mr. holocaust denier …
» Can you show me clear proof that plucked hairs work? I guess not. You just
» insult.
Can you show me clear proof that plucked hairs doesn’t work?
Doing that, I guess that’s fewer time consuming for you, than it would for me doing the contrary …
» » » With the single plucked hairs, you will always need exact 2.5 times
» » » longer for that like with HST procedures.
» » »
» » » Yes, I know, math has never been that easy for some people.
» » ------------------------
» » Clearly math is difficult for you and expressing yourself is also
» very
» » difficult for you.
»
»
»
» » I am not fond of asking to ban anybody but in your case I understand why
» so
» » many people dispise you. You just insult left and right.
»
» From your mouth to God’s ear, Mr. holocaust denier …
»
»
» » Can you show me clear proof that plucked hairs work? I guess not. You
» just
» » insult.
»
» Can you show me clear proof that plucked hairs doesn’t work?
» Doing that, I guess that’s fewer time consuming for you, than it would for
» me doing the contrary …
agree +1
Plucked hairs work because of the tissue but i give up to explain this.
Just show us as iron.man said the proof that it doesnt work