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Dense Packing with Plucked Hair


#1

Assuming supply is not an issue and Acell+Plucked hairs pans out, what kind of densities can we achieve with plucked hairs?

Consider the fact that normal scalp follicular units contain 2.3 hairs per unit. And are spaced out relatively evenly.

Assuming plucked hairs only produce 1 hair, would spacing them closer together create a similar density to follicular units?



#2


#3

» Assuming plucked hairs only produce 1 hair, would spacing them closer
» together create a similar density to follicular units?

Of course. Sometimes some HT doctors do the same with 2-hair bearing grafts (2 pieces of 2-hair bearing grafts into 1 incision) to gain more density/coverage. On the other hand, the whole concept makes no sense at all and -at least “in theory”- isn’t necessary with the correct usage of ECM’s. There reason, why ECM’s INDEED produce “2 - 3 healthy hairs derived from 1 single plucked hair” - I tell you that as soon as some users here get banned …

btw - Did you take your posted photos with your camera?


#4

» » Assuming plucked hairs only produce 1 hair, would spacing them closer
» » together create a similar density to follicular
» units
?
»
» Of course. Sometimes some HT doctors do the same with 2-hair bearing
» grafts (2 pieces of 2-hair bearing grafts into 1 incision) to gain more
» density/coverage. On the other hand, the whole concept makes no sense at
» all and -at least “in theory”- isn’t necessary with the correct usage of
» ECM’s. There reason, why ECM’s INDEED produce “2 - 3 healthy hairs derived
» from 1 single plucked hair” - I tell you that as soon as some users here
» get banned …
»
» btw - Did you take your posted photos with your camera?

I got the images from a google search.


#5

» » Assuming plucked hairs only produce 1 hair, would spacing them closer
» » together create a similar density to follicular
» units
?
»
» Of course. Sometimes some HT doctors do the same with 2-hair bearing
» grafts (2 pieces of 2-hair bearing grafts into 1 incision) to gain more
» density/coverage. On the other hand, the whole concept makes no sense at
» all and -at least “in theory”- isn’t necessary with the correct usage of
» ECM’s. There reason, why ECM’s INDEED produce “2 - 3 healthy hairs derived
» from 1 single plucked hair” - I tell you that as soon as some users here
» get banned …

LOL… u seriously think you are sooo knowledgable… and at the same time you are impressed by a graduate level degree in Physics… you sir are nothing but hot air… u seem to have NO scientific background but seriously seem to believe that u’ve understood it all simply because you are fairly skilled at googling (or perhaps you simply spend half the day doing so) and have read a few publications (which you can not have understood without a scientific background)… we were doing just fine before you came to this board… and we do not need your enlightenment… now go crawl back under your rock.


#6

Have we seen any real proof that implanted plucked hair really works?


#7

» Have we seen any real proof that implanted plucked hair really works?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
good question…:expressionless:


#8

» Have we seen any real proof that implanted plucked hair really works?

:expressionless:

Frankly, I really wonder … no, nobody ever has seen anything.


#9

» » Have we seen any real proof that implanted plucked hair really
» works?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
» good question…:expressionless:

well unless you think Dr Cooley a well respected doctor would do a presentation full of lies infront of his peers at an international hair restoration event organised through the leading professional body, you would presume that implanted plucked hair grows if not he would have destroyed his reputation forever.
however, i understand what you mean in that has it has to be verified independently by others. there are some doctors doing their own trials so within a few months we should at least have some information. in the meantime i will assume that autocloning does grow hair which can be seen in one of Dr Cooleys presentation slides.
i have only heard of one doctor doubt the idea and im not convinced by this doctors arguement


#10

» » » Have we seen any real proof that implanted plucked hair really
» »
» works?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
» » good question…:expressionless:
»
» well unless you think Dr Cooley a well respected doctor would do a
» presentation full of lies infront of his peers at an international hair
» restoration event organised through the leading professional body, you
» would presume that implanted plucked hair grows if not he would have
» destroyed his reputation forever.
» however, i understand what you mean in that has it has to be verified
» independently by others. there are some doctors doing their own trials so
» within a few months we should at least have some information. in the
» meantime i will assume that autocloning does grow hair which can be seen in
» one of Dr Cooleys presentation slides.
» i have only heard of one doctor doubt the idea and im not convinced by this
» doctors arguement

+1


#11

» well unless you think Dr Cooley a well respected doctor would do a
» presentation full of lies infront of his peers …

What would convince me would be several NW7 going back to NWI. As the donor is unlimited it would have to be a complete restoration. Maybe in several steps but compelte coverage after all.


#12

» » well unless you think Dr Cooley a well respected doctor would do a
» » presentation full of lies infront of his peers …
»
» What would convince me would be several NW7 going back to NWI. As the donor
» is unlimited it would have to be a complete restoration. Maybe in several
» steps but compelte coverage after all.

yeap it will take at least 4 passes before a Norwood 7 becomes a 1 back to original density assuming 1 plucked hair to 1 new hair. allowing time to regrow the plucked hair from the donor about 2 years to complete so we wont be seeing a picture of brand new norwood 1 for a least a few years. probably wont be cheap either.


#13

» » » well unless you think Dr Cooley a well respected doctor would do a
» » » presentation full of lies infront of his peers …
» »
» » What would convince me would be several NW7 going back to NWI. As the
» donor
» » is unlimited it would have to be a complete restoration. Maybe in
» several
» » steps but compelte coverage after all.
»
» yeap it will take at least 4 passes before a Norwood 7 becomes a 1 back to
» original density assuming 1 plucked hair to 1 new hair. allowing time to
» regrow the plucked hair from the donor about 2 years to complete so we wont
» be seeing a picture of brand new norwood 1 for a least a few years.
» probably wont be cheap either.

not to mention that each session will have to be an ultra mega session


#14

» » » » well unless you think Dr Cooley a well respected doctor would do a
» » » » presentation full of lies infront of his peers …
» » »
» » » What would convince me would be several NW7 going back to NWI. As the
» » donor
» » » is unlimited it would have to be a complete restoration. Maybe in
» » several
» » » steps but compelte coverage after all.
» »
» » yeap it will take at least 4 passes before a Norwood 7 becomes a 1 back
» to
» » original density assuming 1 plucked hair to 1 new hair. allowing time to
» » regrow the plucked hair from the donor about 2 years to complete so we
» wont
» » be seeing a picture of brand new norwood 1 for a least a few years.
» » probably wont be cheap either.
»
» not to mention that each session will have to be an ultra mega session

Assuming that plucked hair regrows normally i believe even a restoration to 65% to 70% would look fantastic. ACell may not be the optimal treatment people would wish for but for smaller scale norwood patterns 3 to 4 for example this would be and end t0 baldness for them in my opinion. Again this is assuming that ACell works and the variables are all positive.


#15

You could also use a FUE megasession BUT combine this with acell in both onor and recipient side (with a little more fine tuning you can get infinite donor).

And then it wouldnt actually take for to 5 treatments for a NW7 class person to get back to NW0 or NW1 with high density.


#16

» » » » » well unless you think Dr Cooley a well respected doctor would do a
» » » » » presentation full of lies infront of his peers …
» » » »
» » » » What would convince me would be several NW7 going back to NWI. As
» the
» » » donor
» » » » is unlimited it would have to be a complete restoration. Maybe in
» » » several
» » » » steps but compelte coverage after all.
» » »
» » » yeap it will take at least 4 passes before a Norwood 7 becomes a 1
» back
» » to
» » » original density assuming 1 plucked hair to 1 new hair. allowing time
» to
» » » regrow the plucked hair from the donor about 2 years to complete so we
» » wont
» » » be seeing a picture of brand new norwood 1 for a least a few years.
» » » probably wont be cheap either.
» »
» » not to mention that each session will have to be an ultra mega session
»
» Assuming that plucked hair regrows normally i believe even a restoration to
» 65% to 70% would look fantastic. ACell may not be the optimal treatment
» people would wish for but for smaller scale norwood patterns 3 to 4 for
» example this would be and end t0 baldness for them in my opinion. Again
» this is assuming that ACell works and the variables are all positive.

yeah your probably right, an older NW7 would probably settle for even 50% because his friends with heads of hair probably wouldnt be much beyond 50% of their original hair anyway, but his young son who is a NW6 has to hang out at the beach amongst NW1-2’s will probably not settle for anything less than 70% and then some.
i think its great almost immediately for the lower Norwoods that want to get back to close to original density


#17

» You could also use a FUE megasession BUT combine this with acell in both
» onor and recipient side (with a little more fine tuning you can get
» infinite donor).
»
» And then it wouldnt actually take for to 5 treatments for a NW7 class
» person to get back to NW0 or NW1 with high density.

perhaps, but there is only one doctor so far claiming more hairs growing than what was transplanted, so it would be good if others could try to replicate this and prove that it occurs.


#18

» » » » » » well unless you think Dr Cooley a well respected doctor would do
» a
» » » » » » presentation full of lies infront of his peers …
» » » » »
» » » » » What would convince me would be several NW7 going back to NWI. As
» » the
» » » » donor
» » » » » is unlimited it would have to be a complete restoration. Maybe in
» » » » several
» » » » » steps but compelte coverage after all.
» » » »
» » » » yeap it will take at least 4 passes before a Norwood 7 becomes a 1
» » back
» » » to
» » » » original density assuming 1 plucked hair to 1 new hair. allowing
» time
» » to
» » » » regrow the plucked hair from the donor about 2 years to complete so
» we
» » » wont
» » » » be seeing a picture of brand new norwood 1 for a least a few years.
» » » » probably wont be cheap either.
» » »
» » » not to mention that each session will have to be an ultra mega session
» »
» » Assuming that plucked hair regrows normally i believe even a restoration
» to
» » 65% to 70% would look fantastic. ACell may not be the optimal treatment
» » people would wish for but for smaller scale norwood patterns 3 to 4 for
» » example this would be and end t0 baldness for them in my opinion. Again
» » this is assuming that ACell works and the variables are all positive.
»
» yeah your probably right, an older NW7 would probably settle for even 50%
» because his friends with heads of hair probably wouldnt be much beyond 50%
» of their original hair anyway, but his young son who is a NW6 has to hang
» out at the beach amongst NW1-2’s will probably not settle for anything less
» than 70% and then some.
» i think its great almost immediately for the lower Norwoods that want to
» get back to close to original density

I have seen people say it would still take years for a norwood 7 to get back full restoration. while this may be it would still be the case that each session would be an improvement so in that sense its still a very positve thing. For example if 10,000 plucked hairs could be autocloned over say a 12 month period then that would be a significant amount and so on from yr to yr, yes it would take time but would be a constant improvment with basically zero scarring. Remember at the moment we have nothing that that comes even close to this type of treatment or the posibilities it could lead to. I’m keeping my fingers crossed autocloning will be successful


#19

» » » » » » » well unless you think Dr Cooley a well respected doctor would
» do
» » a
» » » » » » » presentation full of lies infront of his peers …
» » » » » »
» » » » » » What would convince me would be several NW7 going back to NWI.
» As
» » » the
» » » » » donor
» » » » » » is unlimited it would have to be a complete restoration. Maybe
» in
» » » » » several
» » » » » » steps but compelte coverage after all.
» » » » »
» » » » » yeap it will take at least 4 passes before a Norwood 7 becomes a 1
» » » back
» » » » to
» » » » » original density assuming 1 plucked hair to 1 new hair. allowing
» » time
» » » to
» » » » » regrow the plucked hair from the donor about 2 years to complete
» so
» » we
» » » » wont
» » » » » be seeing a picture of brand new norwood 1 for a least a few
» years.
» » » » » probably wont be cheap either.
» » » »
» » » » not to mention that each session will have to be an ultra mega
» session
» » »
» » » Assuming that plucked hair regrows normally i believe even a
» restoration
» » to
» » » 65% to 70% would look fantastic. ACell may not be the optimal
» treatment
» » » people would wish for but for smaller scale norwood patterns 3 to 4
» for
» » » example this would be and end t0 baldness for them in my opinion.
» Again
» » » this is assuming that ACell works and the variables are all positive.
» »
» » yeah your probably right, an older NW7 would probably settle for even
» 50%
» » because his friends with heads of hair probably wouldnt be much beyond
» 50%
» » of their original hair anyway, but his young son who is a NW6 has to
» hang
» » out at the beach amongst NW1-2’s will probably not settle for anything
» less
» » than 70% and then some.
» » i think its great almost immediately for the lower Norwoods that want to
» » get back to close to original density
»
» I have seen people say it would still take years for a norwood 7 to get
» back full restoration. while this may be it would still be the case that
» each session would be an improvement so in that sense its still a very
» positve thing. For example if 10,000 plucked hairs could be autocloned over
» say a 12 month period then that would be a significant amount and so on
» from yr to yr, yes it would take time but would be a constant improvment
» with basically zero scarring. Remember at the moment we have nothing that
» that comes even close to this type of treatment or the posibilities it
» could lead to. I’m keeping my fingers crossed autocloning will be
» successful

in theory if a NW7 has 25,000 hairs at the donor it would probably look something like this:
session 1 - 25000 hairs plucked, 1/3 lost to hair breakage during plucking, 2/3 implanted actually grow gives the patient about 11,000 new hairs
session 2 (1 year later) there is now a total of 36,000 hairs available to pluck so another session would add about 16,000 giving a total of 52,000
session 3 = 75000
session 4 = 100000
total of about 4 years at a cost of about $250,000 if you assume each graft cost $8 (FUE price).
of course over time less breakage, improved yield might shave 1 session off bringing it down to 3 sessions (3 years) and cost per graph becomes equivalent to strip ($4.5)x 31,250 = $140,000
this isnt cheap so most NW7’s wont go for full density unless automation drives the cost lower or an alternative HM solution comes along which is more likely.


#20

» » » » » » » » well unless you think Dr Cooley a well respected doctor
» would
» » do
» » » a
» » » » » » » » presentation full of lies infront of his peers …
» » » » » » »
» » » » » » » What would convince me would be several NW7 going back to NWI.
» » As
» » » » the
» » » » » » donor
» » » » » » » is unlimited it would have to be a complete restoration. Maybe
» » in
» » » » » » several
» » » » » » » steps but compelte coverage after all.
» » » » » »
» » » » » » yeap it will take at least 4 passes before a Norwood 7 becomes a
» 1
» » » » back
» » » » » to
» » » » » » original density assuming 1 plucked hair to 1 new hair. allowing
» » » time
» » » » to
» » » » » » regrow the plucked hair from the donor about 2 years to complete
» » so
» » » we
» » » » » wont
» » » » » » be seeing a picture of brand new norwood 1 for a least a few
» » years.
» » » » » » probably wont be cheap either.
» » » » »
» » » » » not to mention that each session will have to be an ultra mega
» » session
» » » »
» » » » Assuming that plucked hair regrows normally i believe even a
» » restoration
» » » to
» » » » 65% to 70% would look fantastic. ACell may not be the optimal
» » treatment
» » » » people would wish for but for smaller scale norwood patterns 3 to 4
» » for
» » » » example this would be and end t0 baldness for them in my opinion.
» » Again
» » » » this is assuming that ACell works and the variables are all
» positive.
» » »
» » » yeah your probably right, an older NW7 would probably settle for even
» » 50%
» » » because his friends with heads of hair probably wouldnt be much beyond
» » 50%
» » » of their original hair anyway, but his young son who is a NW6 has to
» » hang
» » » out at the beach amongst NW1-2’s will probably not settle for anything
» » less
» » » than 70% and then some.
» » » i think its great almost immediately for the lower Norwoods that want
» to
» » » get back to close to original density
» »
» » I have seen people say it would still take years for a norwood 7 to get
» » back full restoration. while this may be it would still be the case that
» » each session would be an improvement so in that sense its still a very
» » positve thing. For example if 10,000 plucked hairs could be autocloned
» over
» » say a 12 month period then that would be a significant amount and so on
» » from yr to yr, yes it would take time but would be a constant improvment
» » with basically zero scarring. Remember at the moment we have nothing
» that
» » that comes even close to this type of treatment or the posibilities it
» » could lead to. I’m keeping my fingers crossed autocloning will be
» » successful
»
» in theory if a NW7 has 25,000 hairs at the donor it would probably look
» something like this:
» session 1 - 25000 hairs plucked, 1/3 lost to hair breakage during plucking,
» 2/3 implanted actually grow gives the patient about 11,000 new hairs
» session 2 (1 year later) there is now a total of 36,000 hairs available to
» pluck so another session would add about 16,000 giving a total of 52,000
» session 3 = 75000
» session 4 = 100000
» total of about 4 years at a cost of about $250,000 if you assume each graft
» cost $8 (FUE price).
» of course over time less breakage, improved yield might shave 1 session off
» bringing it down to 3 sessions (3 years) and cost per graph becomes
» equivalent to strip ($4.5)x 31,250 = $140,000
» this isnt cheap so most NW7’s wont go for full density unless automation
» drives the cost lower or an alternative HM solution comes along which is
» more likely.

cost is not something that i am to worried about at this stage. the most important thing is that it works. Even if a total cure was to be realeased tomorrow at a cost of a million per go its still a massive breakthrough cause medically at the moment we have nothin. Who knows it may even be cheaper than normal HT.