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Day 20...18 Days Post Wounding


#1

Sunday 4th Oct. 2008

Ceased the EGF inhibition today. Transferred to minox and copper peptides.Washed and shaved head for the first time.
Observations so far at 18 days post-wounding and about 7 days since scabs dropped off, are not encouraging. There’s vellus hair everywhere but probably nothing new. The hair
that I’d gained from the previous experiment seemed sparser and didn’t seem to be growing as well and as long. There
are definitely new hairs that I’ve noticed at the front but these are white (or grey?). The question is, are these colourless
hairs regenerated hairs that have gone naturally grey? Or are these new follicles that are growing unpigmented hair
due to the lack of wnt inhibition before wnt promotion? Regardless, the results at this stage are distinctly underwhelming
and I’m almost ready to deem it as a failure. Having said that, results were quick to appear in the first experiment but
the really exciting stuff developed over the course of a month after wounding. But at this point, I’m inclined to believe that
something is wrong with my current protocol/formulation. I think the wnt inhibition BEFORE promotion may be important to both
the pigmentation of the new/rejuvenated hair and also the quality. I shall have to study the patent again with regards to the timing
and mechanisms of wnt. Roughly as follows:
Step 1: Wounding (possibly preceded by the depilation step)
Step 2: Inhibit wnt for a few days until epithelization is complete
Step 3: Inhibit EGF as scabs are peeling. Also boost wnt via lithium action.
Continue Step 3 for 10 to 12 days.

Note: I may use the alpha lipoic acid cream as a carrier next time. Tannic acid as the EGF inhibitor supplemented by milk thistle extract.
Uncertain at this point whether to include roxithromycin as the anti-microbial.
I’ll update you guys on any developments regarding the current experiment but I shall be utilising this time to prepare the materials
required for my next attempt. I’m open to suggestions on protocol.


#2

» Sunday 4th Oct. 2008
»
» Ceased the EGF inhibition today. Transferred to minox and copper
» peptides.Washed and shaved head for the first time.
» Observations so far at 18 days post-wounding and about 7 days since scabs
» dropped off, are not encouraging. The hair
» that I’d gained from the previous experiment seemed sparser and didn’t
» seem to be growing as well and as long. There
» are definitely new hairs that I’ve noticed at the front but these are
» white (or grey?). The question is, are these colourless
» hairs regenerated hairs that have gone naturally grey? Or are these new
» follicles that are growing unpigmented hair
» due to the lack of wnt inhibition before wnt promotion? Regardless, the
» results at this stage are distinctly underwhelming
» and I’m almost ready to deem it as a failure. Having said that, results
» were quick to appear in the first experiment but
» the really exciting stuff developed over the course of a month after
» wounding. But at this point, I’m inclined to believe that
» something is wrong with my current protocol/formulation. I think the wnt
» inhibition BEFORE promotion may be important to both
» the pigmentation of the new/rejuvenated hair and also the quality. I shall
» have to study the patent again with regards to the timing
» and mechanisms of wnt. Roughly as follows:
» Step 1: Wounding (possibly
» preceded by the depilation step)
» Step 2: Inhibit wnt for a few
» days until epithelization is complete

Remember that your 1st time , that was accidental , and for 2 days … as you reported…May be you should for now discard the Depilation round…Try the WNT inhibition for 3 days …and see if we can achieve the same level of results or slightly better/worst.

» Step 3: Inhibit EGF as scabs
» are peeling. Also boost wnt via lithium action.
» Continue Step 3 for
» 10 to 12 days.
»
» Note: I may use the alpha lipoic acid cream as a carrier next time. Tannic
» acid as the EGF inhibitor supplemented by milk thistle extract.
» Uncertain at this point whether to include roxithromycin as the
» anti-microbial.

I’d suggest that you give up on Roxithrom…you did not use it first time…am I right ?! I’d suggest that you go back to the old protocle…and slightly enhahnce the Wnt inhibition from 2 to 3 days and watch out for the results…

What did you use an anti-microbial your 1st time ?

» I’ll update you guys on any developments regarding the current experiment
» but I shall be utilising this time to prepare the materials
» required for my next attempt.


#3

» Sunday 4th Oct. 2008
»
» Ceased the EGF inhibition today. Transferred to minox and copper
» peptides.Washed and shaved head for the first time.
» Observations so far at 18 days post-wounding and about 7 days since scabs
» dropped off, are not encouraging. There’s vellus hair everywhere but
» probably nothing new. The hair
» that I’d gained from the previous experiment seemed sparser and didn’t
» seem to be growing as well and as long. There
» are definitely new hairs that I’ve noticed at the front but these are
» white (or grey?). The question is, are these colourless
» hairs regenerated hairs that have gone naturally grey? Or are these new
» follicles that are growing unpigmented hair
» due to the lack of wnt inhibition before wnt promotion? Regardless, the
» results at this stage are distinctly underwhelming
» and I’m almost ready to deem it as a failure. Having said that, results
» were quick to appear in the first experiment but
» the really exciting stuff developed over the course of a month after
» wounding. But at this point, I’m inclined to believe that
» something is wrong with my current protocol/formulation. I think the wnt
» inhibition BEFORE promotion may be important to both
» the pigmentation of the new/rejuvenated hair and also the quality. I shall
» have to study the patent again with regards to the timing
» and mechanisms of wnt. Roughly as follows:
» Step 1: Wounding (possibly
» preceded by the depilation step)
» Step 2: Inhibit wnt for a few
» days until epithelization is complete
» Step 3: Inhibit EGF as scabs
» are peeling. Also boost wnt via lithium action.
» Continue Step 3 for
» 10 to 12 days.
»
» Note: I may use the alpha lipoic acid cream as a carrier next time. Tannic
» acid as the EGF inhibitor supplemented by milk thistle extract.
» Uncertain at this point whether to include roxithromycin as the
» anti-microbial.
» I’ll update you guys on any developments regarding the current experiment
» but I shall be utilising this time to prepare the materials
» required for my next attempt. I’m open to suggestions on protocol.

i’ve spent the past few days reading the folica patent, and form what i’ve understood:

  1. WNT is inhibited for up to 9 days post wounding. doing this means the hair is thicker, and pigmented. apparently WNT in the first few days causes un-pigmented hair

  2. promote WNT after inhibiting it. personally, i think 9 days is too long, i woud be inclined to go for 6 or 7 days.

  3. a lot of people are talking about starting EGFR and WNT inhibition at 3 days post wounding. I mustve missed this in the patent. I would personally start everything on the day of wounding. EGFR inhibition, WNT inibition, topical finisteride, antihistamines, anti-inflamatorys, the lot. the only things i would possibly leave out are the antibacterial, antimicrobial, etc. I think what we want is the body to respond to the wound, but to keep the immunsystem well away from it, and keep DHT away too.

I’ve been doing my reserach recently getting ready to give it a try. my current plan is

  • wound using glycolic acid peel 50%. maybe even do it 2 or 3 times one after the other if im not satisfied. I have to look into the safety of that though.
  • from day 1 i intend to inhibit WNT and EGF, using antihistamine and antiinflamatory, and DHT supression. I intend to do this both topically and orally. I know that the patent is all about the topical, but we dont have access to drugs that strong, so this is my ‘best guess’ answer
  • day 3 start using antimicrobial and antibacterial, etc. I may put off using the antihistamines and antiinflamatorys till day 3 too. I want to look into that further
  • day 6 start WNT upregulation

as for drugs

EGFR inhibitor - milk thistle, quertecin or both
WNT inhibitor - EGCG extract (green tea), cicumin (tumeric extract) or both
WNT upregulator - lithium

with these things being so cheap and redily available, im tempted to go for a everything but kitchen sink approach


#4

» »
» i’ve spent the past few days reading the folica patent, and form what i’ve
» understood:
»
» 1. WNT is inhibited for up to 9 days post wounding. doing this means the
» hair is thicker, and pigmented. apparently WNT in the first few days causes
» un-pigmented hair
»
» 2. promote WNT after inhibiting it. personally, i think 9 days is too
» long, i woud be inclined to go for 6 or 7 days.
»
» 3. a lot of people are talking about starting EGFR and WNT inhibition at 3
» days post wounding. I mustve missed this in the patent. I would personally
» start everything on the day of wounding. EGFR inhibition, WNT inibition,
» topical finisteride, antihistamines, anti-inflamatorys, the lot. the only
» things i would possibly leave out are the antibacterial, antimicrobial,
» etc. I think what we want is the body to respond to the wound, but to keep
» the immunsystem well away from it, and keep DHT away too.
»
»
» I’ve been doing my reserach recently getting ready to give it a try. my
» current plan is
»
» - wound using glycolic acid peel 50%. maybe even do it 2 or 3 times one
» after the other if im not satisfied. I have to look into the safety of that
» though.
» - from day 1 i intend to inhibit WNT and EGF, using antihistamine and
» antiinflamatory, and DHT supression. I intend to do this both topically and
» orally. I know that the patent is all about the topical, but we dont have
» access to drugs that strong, so this is my ‘best guess’ answer
» - day 3 start using antimicrobial and antibacterial, etc. I may put off
» using the antihistamines and antiinflamatorys till day 3 too. I want to
» look into that further
» - day 6 start WNT upregulation
»
» as for drugs
»
» EGFR inhibitor - milk thistle, quertecin or both
» WNT inhibitor - EGCG extract (green tea), cicumin (tumeric extract) or
» both
» WNT upregulator - lithium
»
» with these things being so cheap and redily available, im tempted to go
» for a everything but kitchen sink approach

I am pretty sure that the EGFR inhibitor plays the part of WNT upregulator so I dont think lithium is needed. I have googled EGFR + WNT and seem to get a lot of hits which suggest a close connection between the two (for example http://clincancerres.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/13/20/6087)

WNT inhibition may or may not be needed the first days to get pigmented hair but the EGFR inihibitor should be enough to create new hairs by it self. I would love to see someone dissolve some gefitinib in DMSO and mix it with some form of carrier and see what that brings.


#5

» WNT inhibition may or may not be needed the first days to get pigmented
» hair but the EGFR inihibitor should be enough to create new hairs by it
» self. I would love to see someone dissolve some gefitinib in DMSO and mix
» it with some form of carrier and see what that brings.

the patent says that WNT inhibition is required to get pigmented hair. Although I seem to recall that it said after a certain day (im sure it was day 9) the WNT inhibition actually harmed the chances of new hair follices.

as for the suggestion on gefitinib. Why dont you try it? I belive benji and cal were experimenting with gefitnib, and neither had much success. Personally I wouldnt touch the stuff, and wouldnt recomend or encourage anyone else to untill other options have been exhausted.


#6

» » WNT inhibition may or may not be needed the first days to get pigmented
» » hair but the EGFR inihibitor should be enough to create new hairs by it
» » self. I would love to see someone dissolve some gefitinib in DMSO and
» mix
» » it with some form of carrier and see what that brings.
»
» the patent says that WNT inhibition is required to get pigmented hair.
» Although I seem to recall that it said after a certain day (im sure it was
» day 9) the WNT inhibition actually harmed the chances of new hair
» follices.
»
» as for the suggestion on gefitinib. Why dont you try it? I belive benji
» and cal were experimenting with gefitnib, and neither had much success.
» Personally I wouldnt touch the stuff, and wouldnt recomend or encourage
» anyone else to untill other options have been exhausted.

If I could afford it I absolutely would! In fact there was talk about benji sending me one of his pills but that never happend for some reason.


#7

Baccy thanks for the update. Can you place some pictures? Pictures say more than 1000 words.

Thanks again


#8

» I’m open to suggestions on protocol.

First of all, thanks for keeping us posted! Sorry to hear things don’t seem to turn out the way we would have wanted.

I would suggest - just like Amilcar - that you go back to your first successful protocol and only change one parameter slightly. Naturally we would all like to “strike gold” and find that super protocol right away, but I think changing too many things at once will only make it difficult to analyze the results and develop a consistent/efficient method.

Basically a systematic approach which requires a little patience is what I’m suggesting.

Oh, and BTW, when do you plan to start your next experiment?

/p


#9

»
» Oh, and BTW, when do you plan to start your next experiment?
»
» /p

Maybe in a couple of weeks. Could be less.


#10

» Baccy thanks for the update. Can you place some pictures? Pictures say more
» than 1000 words.
»
» Thanks again

For that, I’d have to go to see my pal with the camera. But as there is nothing to see, there’s not much point at this time.