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Cal, MPB, Debris, Benji & JTR


#1

Hi Guys.
1st of all,I would really like to thank you for your contributions to this board.
I am feeling really low today.I just have a couple of questions/ideas I’d like to bounce of you all.I know you guys don’t have the answers but I do respect your opinions & really need to get things of my chest.

I think it is completely pointless to talk about Follica as they don’t even know when human trials will begin.

Even though I have pretty much dismissed the dream that ICX will give me my life back,they are the only people offering a solution that can be available to the public anytime soon.Like I said before,I am really down & am desperate for anything that will help me.Can it be that ICX-TRC can regrow hairs,just not to the level they had hoped? Maybe it can grow 30-40 hairs/cm2? I would be very happy with that result as I could cover my scars.Do you think they would still be willing to release a product that wont cover your head but offer some coverage at least?

Also,what do you think about Farjo’s comments in regards to combining DP cells with keratin? My donor area has pretty much been destroyed.I would be willing to undergo a traditional HTP with hairs that were grown outside of my body.It is certainly a better solution than this ridiculous body hair transplants.We could have an endless amount of scalp hair to cover our heads. Everyone could have tens of thousands of grafts transplanted into their scalp. This to me seems to be the most realistic solution to our problems. It’s not what we have all hoped for but it’s better than hiding under a baseball cap.I wonder if ICX has been trialling this as well or if they have just been focusing on injecting the scalp with cells? What do you know about this overlooked option ?
Thanks for your time guys.


#2

Man, I had a LONG typed-out response done a minute ago. And then when I tried to post it, the friggin website had logged me out and I lost it all.

ICX doesn’t encourage me very much anymore. The TRC program clearly has big trouble. Either they were seriously wrong in the basic “healthy DP cells = reactivated follicles” premise in the first place, or else they’re seriously failing at getting it accomplished right.

I wouldn’t be too surprised if TRC still actually worked pretty well to preserve existing DHT-susceptible hairs from any further damage. But without the regrowth Ace-in-the-hole, I don’t think that alone will be enough to get it funded all the way to the finish line at our local (gulp) Bosley office.

As for the outside-the-body methods, I don’t know enough to call any of it. Good or bad. It’s an unprecedented idea, but it’s an equally unprecedented situation. There aren’t 100,000 men willing to pay thousands of dollars for thousands of tiny little livers or kidneys to transplant. No telling.

As for Folica, I’m not even paying attention to the commercial testing timeline. I’m just waiting for it to get tried enough by guys like us for word to trickle back now.

Just imagine if ONE guy on a website like this gets damn near perfect-looking regrowth from messing with it . . . I suspect that would absolutely break the door down. We’d see a couple dozen more guys throughout the internet suddenly buying online drugs & trying things overnight. In six more months, the scientists at Folica itself could be quietly surfing MPB websites for suggestions of anecdotal details.

I also wanna say this -

Don’t rule out near-future improvements in scar healing technology. It’s not hair, but it could offer a cosmetically decent buzz-down. I honestly think believing in this is at least as feasible as any of the HM ideas. Everything I read makes me think that just regenerating decent smooth skin will be a lot simpler than what we’re trying to get done with complex hair follicles.

For the last 6/7 years, the US Military’s trauma centers have been saving way over 10,000 soldiers from death because of these roadside bombs in Iraq/Afghanistan. Well, once the holes are patched up and the heart rate is stabilized, they’ve got a hell of a lot of soldiers on their hands with horribly blown-apart and burned bodies that look like they’re probably gonna need lifetime VA medical care for the next 50 years. That has put the military in a position of wanting all kinds of body-regeneration progress, and they want it right now. They’re gonna spend the money to see it happen. (The US govt wouldn’t give public school teachers another $100/year without a fight. But when the US Military demands some piece of specific technological progress, it’s liable to actually get it within a decent timeframe.)

In the near commerical situation, Juvista is back in the trials as far as I know. I don’t know whether or not it’ll make it, but the results are supposed to be pretty awesome on wounds done under controlled conditions.

Acell is unknown but looks promising. We’re all so ape-sh*t about its hair potential, that we’re not even looking very hard at its potential abilities to simply regenerate a smooth-skinned wound closing. Which seems even more plausible.


#3

That has happened to me several times, Cal. Now, before I submit a long post, I highlight and copy it and then try to submit it. Usually it goes through, but if it doesn’t, I can paste it to a new “reply” and send it through. That way, I won’t be “timed out”.


#4

» I think it is completely pointless to talk about Follica as they don’t
» even know when human trials will begin.

They said they will be started this year.

» Even though I have pretty much dismissed the dream that ICX will give me
» my life back,

Give you your life back? How about hoping that this technology is even able to become a reality?

they are the only people offering a solution that can be available to the
public anytime soon.

What is your definition of soon? It’s likely not to be here in less than 4 or 5 years, if at all.

Can it be that ICX-TRC can regrow hairs,

You just got done saying hair growth direction would be a showestopper for Follica (it wouldn’t be – why would you even think this?), and you somehow think ICX doesn’t face the same kinds of issues?

If I were you, I’d forget about HM, Follica (your best hope, at this point), and the rest.


#5

»
» I think it is completely pointless to talk about Follica as they don’t
» even know when human trials will begin. Well, sorry but some of us like talking about Follica and will continue to do so. Feel free to ignore us and dont even look at threads that are follica related if they annoy you. There are posters here who annoy me, but I just ignore them.
»
» Even though I have pretty much dismissed the dream that ICX will give me
» my life back,they are the only people offering a solution that can be
» available to the public anytime soon.Actually Follica and ACELL are two other viable possibilities to do this. In fact, since ICX and Aderans have been workign on HM since about 2002, but still dont have a working protocol ready to sell yet, it would seem that the later two companies might have a much better chance. You haven’t seen NBC news willing to do stories on ICX or Aderans yet have you? Probably because the medical editor wouldn’t approve of the stories after researching them, as they just haven’t presented enough evidence to be worthy of a story yet.

Like I said before,I am really down &
» am desperate for anything that will help me.Can it be that ICX-TRC can
» regrow hairs,just not to the level they had hoped? That is very likely to be the case. They have grown some hairs, but not nearly enough. If they were growing chia pets on men’s heads, you would have seen pictures of men with new hair by now. Maybe it can grow 30-40
» hairs/cm2? I’d be happy if it was doing that much, one could just get the procedure done yearly to increase results hopefully. I would be very happy with that result as I could cover my
» scars.Do you think they would still be willing to release a product that
» wont cover your head but offer some coverage at least? I dont know if there is enough market potential for something that just gave you “comb over” results for them to spend enough money for a phase three FDA trial to justify it, even though I wish they would market a product that gave “comb over” results so one could hopefully just get it done again and again over the years to increase the results myself. »

» Also,what do you think about Farjo’s comments in regards to combining DP
» cells with keratin? My donor area has pretty much been destroyed.I would be
» willing to undergo a traditional HTP with hairs that were grown outside of
» my body.
This is the best observation you have made in my opinion. Aderans is supposedly working on just this scenario. They are supposedly using tissue matrices to grow proto-hairs from dermal papilla cells and other cells for re-implantation back into the body later. Obviously they weren’t having the success they were hoping for with the straight cellular injections into the body as they had hoped to and this is why its taking so much longer. Will they have success? I dont know. I hope they do. I hope they ALL do. I want patten baldness defeated for all humanity. It is certainly a better solution than this ridiculous body hair
» transplants. Body hair transplants haven’t worked out like I had hoped. They just cant be placed as closely togehter as we would like, and not everybody’s body hair takes on longer growth phases. The hair also doesn’t get wider with diameter when placed up there even with the greater blood supply. However, a few really badly scarred men have had some success with them and Im happy some of those guys got their lives back, and Im glad some doctors were willing to try it. In my opinion, only men with very hair bodies with very large body hairs would have a chance at having acceptable coverage with body hair as matter of routine. Even then, its still a whale of a time/m monetary commitment. I have to consider this scenario for people like yourself though…lets say follica in the MPB area just doesn’t work well or just makes more MPB hair that only last a couple of years, but abrading the chest or face could make alot more body or beard hair for a man who has thick chest hair or a mega-beard…just perhaps some of these men could be helped by “making” more body hair to be used “up there”. Its certainly not the elegant solution I want for humanity, but I would like to see the scarred guys in particular get coverage as the buzz is out of the question for the really badly scarred at this point. Maybe ACELL will be able to do something for that scarring down the line though. Im not quick to look down on any possibility for prematurely balding, hurting, scarred up men as you can probably tell. We could have an endless amount of scalp hair to cover our
» heads. Everyone could have tens of thousands of grafts transplanted into
» their scalp. This to me seems to be the most realistic solution to our
» problems. Yep, that would be great. It’s not what we have all hoped for but it’s better than hiding
» under a baseball cap. (Or a wig, even worse).I wonder if ICX has been trialling this as well or if
» they have just been focusing on injecting the scalp with cells? What do you
» know about this overlooked option ? Aderans is now reputably attempting growing hair in tissue matrices outside the body and ICX stopped researching furhter, but will finish their current trial with abrading the scalp-injecting their cellular mix of dp cells and other inductive cells cultivated from donor hair. They only mention they have gottent “13 to 103 percent increases in hair” despite the men not being on finasteride. The thing is, that an increase in 50% on a man who has 10 measley hairs per square inch in a balding area is only 5 extra hairs. This isn’t very exciting if you know what I mean. ICX could have quelled all these questions by simply taking before and after pictures and being willing to show them like anyone else would have, but they declined to do this…which looks very very evasive, as if they have something to hide (like weak regrowth).
» Thanks for your time guys.

My idea…and has been my idea all along in regards to ICX and Aderans was this: Have hair removal (they could use follica’s hair removal patent of plucking, waiting three days, abrading, and then applying epidermal growth factor) performed on your thighs. Then, use the cultivating method of your dp cells contrived from 100 donor hairs added to other inductive cells just like normal, AND INJECT THESE INTO YOUR THIGHS. Any hairs or follicular units that appeared should be head hairs----which could be FUE’ed out by a competent surgeon like Cole, Umar, Woods, Jones, etc. back to your scalp. Its not elegant, and would probably have to be done several times…but you’d probably get hair up there on your noggin’ after three or four attempts by using your body as a scaffold IN THE NOW instead of trying to develop a tissue-matrix technology. Its unelegant though and will never happen in my opinion, but it may have worked well enough to get some guys lives back. They grew a jaw in one German dude’s back and put it back in his face and it worked…theyve grown an ear in a mouse’s back and it worked, so why not this?

You might pay attention in the coming months to the follica discussion going on at various places as some guys really do appear to be “trying this at home”, and maybe someone will have success. I certainly hope one of them does, so that we can all cop his procedure.


#6

If it works and somebody gets it done, they’ll probably be surprised at the lengths that a small number of men will go to in pursuing it.


#7

My advice is to focus on existing solutions.

I dont know how badly butchered you are. Try contacting Hairsite. Really consider body hair transplants or a hair system.

I know it sux, but its better to do something about your suffering now rather then suffer another 10 years and then find out that nothing has changed that again we are 5 years away.


#8

If Folica works, it won’t take us 5 years to find out. Probably not even two.


#9

The new update is in September, let’s see if they start Trial 3


#10

» The new update is in September, let’s see if they start Trial 3

They are not starting trial 3 unless they have got a partner by then,lets hope the get a partner and start trial 3.


#11

» » The new update is in September, let’s see if they start Trial 3
»
» They are not starting trial 3 unless they have got a partner by then,lets
» hope the get a partner and start trial 3.

As I see it, is our only hope TRC for the closest 3 years.Whats aboute Follica.I see nothing,perhaps a mouse in the Laboratory:-D
The market is so big,they must get a partner;-)


#12

I am so conflicted about ICX… Desperation is a bad thing.
Maybe, MAYBE this pre-stimulation of the scalp is giving them the results they had hoped for? Maybe this is the key to providing great results? Who knows, maybe they will come out in September & say, “We have finally got it right”

Their website states, “All 19 subjects in the trial have now been treated using a range of injection and scalp pre-stimulation techniques
Maybe it has taken them this long to work out what injection method works best with a certain pre stimulation technique? Maybe they have finally found the right combination & in September they will have good news ? Maybe not ? I don’t know. Maybe these results will encourage them to conduct more trials themselves? They are only human, it’s natural to become disillusioned. If they see that they have made a break through & the finish line is insight, they might get a second wind & keep on going ? (Damn this sounds pathetic)

On a sad note,they removed the paragraph from their website that mentioned a date for manufacturing this product.Who knows ?


#13

I don’t dismiss FOLLCIA,I just think it’s pointless to talk about Follica when they don’t even know when the human trials will begin.I hope with all my heart that it works because i am losing my mind.I have gotten to the stage where suicide is a real option.
People here where so convinced that ICX would work,there was 1 thread after the other & everyone was certain we were saved.Based on what I had read here I was convinced that I would get my life back.I cannot explain to you how bitterly disappointed I was when it failed.I almost cried.To be honest with you,as childish as this sounds,I was really bitter at some of the guys here for raising my hopes. Maybe others here can relate to my emotions?

I see the same thing happening with Follica & that frightens me.Everyone has forgotten how certain they were that ICX were the solution & now they are praising Follica the same way.I don’t want to put myself through that rollercoaster ride of emotions again.
I guess i will have to wait & see what happens just like everybody else.


#14

I wouldn’t lose hope, medical technology is accelerating at a very fast pace. It could be the cure comes from a country like Germany or China where regulations are not as tough.

Your situation can’t be any worse then my own. Get a good concealer and get on with your life. I would be curious to know who butchered you, as I am possibly seeking to remedy my current situation as best I can and definitely don’t want to make the mistake of choosing the wrong clinic.

Your rant on the ht board was right on. 95% of hairtransplants look like crap and are easily picked out of a crowd. The see through hair is a dead give away along with patients that were seriously disfigured.

email me at htrepair1@yahoo.com


#15

» I am so conflicted about ICX… Desperation is a bad thing.
» Maybe, MAYBE this pre-stimulation of the scalp is giving them the results
» they had hoped for? Maybe this is the key to providing great For all we know the prestimulation is only abrasion and nothing else, they dont say» »

Their website states, “All 19 subjects in the trial have now been treated
» using a range of injection and scalp pre-stimulation techniques
» Maybe it has taken them this long to work out what injection method works
» best with a certain pre stimulation technique? Maybe they have finally
» found the right combination & in September they will have good news ? Maybe
» not ? I don’t know. Maybe these results will encourage them to conduct
» more trials themselves? The one thing we DO KNOW FOR CERTAIN is that they are looking for some entitity to step in and pay them to do any more research or to buy the research info they already have. They intend to not research it any furhter unless someone else pays for it.

They are only human, it’s natural to become
» disillusioned. If they see that they have made a break through & the finish
» line is insight, they might get a second wind & keep on going ? (Damn this
» sounds pathetic) They need money for this…and their stock price has been going down. Unless the third cohort have “wow” growth, and ICX publishes some photos of before-and-after pictures in the media that get would-be investors very excited, I cant see folks lining up to invest personally. »

» On a sad note,they removed the paragraph from their website that mentioned
» a date for manufacturing this product.Who knows ? At one time they talked of a “small scale commercialization sometime in 2008”. A lot of us now feel really mislead by that verbiage because they have now stated that they will only keep working on TRC if some other entity pays them to do so. This is not a sign of a company that thinks theyve come up with a good solution to baldness to most. It sounds like they are growing “some” hair, but not nearly enough to market it as a real cure. New hair thickness that is equivalent to what a man has on his forearm isn’t going to get it, and they know that. To be honest, I’d be happy if they were just growing that much, so someone might be able to get multiple sessions over several years…
Follica is in my mind, the best chance for something near-term.


#16

And don’t forget Bosley has an exclusive option to negotiate an agreement with Intercytex at the end of Phase II (not sure when that is officially). If they don’t sign an agreement, that will say a lot about Intercytex.


#17

ICX is commercially dying.

Aderans has never shown us anything to start with.

Dr Gho is still trying, but he’s working with a lone candle in the dark and he needs a floodlight.

Dr Armani says he’s working on something, but personally I suspect that comment is just buying time to keep selling aggressive transplants.

Folica or bust. That’s what it really boils down to.


#18

simply does follica have to go through FDA?

if it does, it’s gonna suck…

it will take at least 7 years…

» ICX is commercially dying.
»
» Aderans has never shown us anything to start with.
»
» Dr Gho is still trying, but he’s working with a lone candle in the dark
» and he needs a floodlight.
»
» Dr Armani says he’s working on something, but personally I suspect that
» comment is just buying time to keep selling aggressive transplants.
»
»
»
»
» Folica or bust. That’s what it really boils down to.


#19

» ICX is commercially dying.
»
» Aderans has never shown us anything to start with.
»
» Dr Gho is still trying, but he’s working with a lone candle in the dark
» and he needs a floodlight.
»
» Dr Armani says he’s working on something, but personally I suspect that
» comment is just buying time to keep selling aggressive transplants.
»
»
»
»
» Folica or bust. That’s what it really boils down to.

If you limit yourself to 5 years from now on, what you said means that there wont be anything new in that time. Certainly not anything even close so it could be a viable option for a serious repair job.

I’d say, fairly biggest chance is that the wounding + acell or gefinitib will start to work for someone on some web forums. Though, if none of the guys shows pictures in the next few months, the chances of it working will be pretty low.

Really guys, you must be nuts if you believe that follica or someone will save this guys head in just few years. How many times you were hoping before and how many times it turned out to first long series of delays then excuses and then disapointment?

Travis: I say, fck it. Go and send your pics to Hairsite now. Start freaking doing something about your situation finaly!


#20

» simply does follica have to go through FDA?
»
» if it does, it’s gonna suck…
»
» it will take at least 7 years…
»
»

well opinions vary. But realistically, we have seen an investors article (a summary of what company does and whats their goal and expectations targeted to venture capitalists) where they clearly state that they will need 3 years for IND.

This suggests that they are currently in a phase of discovery. Now they will do much more work to find out candidate drugs then they will fill IND, and start human what? TRIALS!.

My opinion is, yes it will need trials. Reasons are:

a) FDA will want the trial money
b) FDA will be concerned about potential unwanted growth and safety
c) Folica will use more then just aproved drugs (both to reach the effectiveness they want in mpb scal, and also to protect themselves, they will not develop a technique that any junkie can copy and use, so its probable that they will try to chuck in an important component that they can patent and exclusively manufacture & control)
d) Investors will want a procedure that is exclusive and hard to copy without being easily prosecuted by law
e) Currently whole folica thing is hyped for sure. What we heard from media is at least 100% better then reality. Thats how mass media works when it comes to breakthroughs.
f) The follica estimate of 3 years to IND suggests that they do plan to go through trials and further supports the hypothesis, that their stage of development is “early discovery” and probably plan to gather more safety data and formulate a candidate drug and then fill in IND so they can go through trials
g) Its logical. If you dismis gray market drugs (and follica for sure will not want to participate in a gray market) how many untrialed procedures or drugs are being done by doctors? Even freaking rogaine foam had a trial even though the drug is exactly the same as in rogaine minoxidil solution which already was aproved for the same indication.

In fact, I’m quite certain that it will need trials. Willing to take a stake if anyone was interested.

Of course there is some probability that the 3 years to IND was a press error and they meant 3 years to “lets give all full head of hair”. But this surely sounds a bit utopistic to anyone old enough to be reading these forums for more then few years. It does not work like that. Human trials take ages and most of them fail even though all companies do absolute maximum to ensure it would work at pre clinical stages in order to save themselves from wasting hundreds of millions on human trials for a drug that fails.