People are going to have different risk profiles. I for one would be not self experiment with a substance clinically associated with cancer. But people are gunna do what people are gunna do. Why don’t u try jar jar?
You aren’t just sitting back minding your own business while people do whatever people decide to do. Rather, you’re trying to take an active role in what people do. You’re trying to push people to take a drug that you know has potential cancer risks. You’re disgusting and your presence here stinks up the place
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It requires more than an injection. Their is a timing process! Only the researchers know what that timing process looks like. That is why they filed a patent. If we could just inject Scube3 we all would be injecting. Maybe we need to spend time hacking their lab. Just joking!
haha yes, suuure i’m totally pushing people to take an active role … toooootally.
At least I see that you are still the same maniac you always were… priceless entertainment…
I was hoping to hear what @roger_that has to say about this… This sounds like one of the most exciting developments in a while to me
When you returned to this site a few days ago one of the first things you did was hack at me for optimistically saying there "“may” be good news announced at the upcoming Hair Loss Congress and yet now here you are optimistically saying that SCUBE3 “Sounds like one of the most exciting developments in a while”.
Why is it OK for you to hack at a poster for expressing lukewarm optimism about a Hair Loss Congress coming in a few months when you yourself express optimism about a potential hair loss treatment we won’t get our hands on for years, if ever? Do you perceive your hypocrisy? Probably not. Perception isn’t your strength.
The difference is that you want a cure so baldly that it clouds your judgement and you cling on to everything as if it is the cure (or at least u used to). I remember when you were raging about how histogen just needs to do multiple repeat injections (as if more is necessarily better and will yield better results). You also used to claim in all seriousness that we already have a cure (8 years ago). All that has made it impossible to take you seriously. Bit of a clown to be honest
Truth be said, the latest study on SCUBE3 seems to really be the signaling peptide that unlocks hair growth and links in perfectly with previous findings (regarding Hedgehog, WNT5 and TGF-b). I do believe that if this signaling mechanism can be safely activated, that this may well be the most exciting finding of the past years. I hope it wont be another fluke like PGD2, which failed to yield any results.
I would love to hear what @roger_that thinks about these developments, surprised to see he hasnt commented on it much, considering he is one of the most knowledgeable posters on this site.
Like I said, you hack at me if I’m optimistic about a treatment I like and then you yourself express optimism about a treatment you like. You think you have a right to express optimism about a treatment you like, but I don’t.
And I never said Histogen was a certain cure. After its initial results were weak I indicated it might be more effective if they tried repeat injections into the same injection spots. And my supposition in that regard was based on science. Histogen contains the same growth factors that are released by adipose cells (in the body) to promote hair growth. However, in the body the adipose cells can release those signals more frequently than one injection (per area) by Histogen. Hence, I concluded that if Histogen injected their growth factors repeatedly that might mimic the more frequent excretion of those growth factors in the body.
Histogen’s researchers tried repeat injections so learned people also thought repeat injections might be more effective. In that time frame a company Kerastem was conducting clinical trials involving injected purified adipose cells to try to grow hair. At that time it was theorized that injecting adipose cells would result in those fat cells excreting growth factors more frequently than a single injection of Histogen’s growth factors per area. In other words, leading researchers at that time also thought it was necessary to get the growth factors into the body more frequently than Histogen’s treatment did. At that time it was theorized that there’s a reduction of adipose cells in balding scalp as people age, resulting in less growth factors being secreted to promote hair growth, and this could be behind hair loss. And it was these types of theories, that led me to believe that repeat injections of Histogen’s growth factors might yield better results than a single injection.
All that aside, it doesn’t really matter anyway because everyone here has the right to express ideas about hair loss.That’s why you don’t see me hacking on you regarding your optimism about SCUBE3. I think SCUBE3 won’t be available (in a proven safe way) for half a dozen years, if ever. But I accept that you have the right to express your opposing views. And yet for some reason you don’t accept that I have the right to express my views about hair loss. The only thing I can think of is that you’re a mean nasty piece of shit who’s decided to fuck with me so you can try to vent bald stress. What an asshole.
just gunna leave this here as a gentle reminder of your ridiculous 2013 posts… any sane person could see that we were still far from any sort of “cure”
FU and your “gentle reminder”, chimp. You’re trying to stir-up shit and disrupt this peaceful site by initiating and conducting a flame-war with me. In fact you’ve come to a hair loss website because you yourself are upset, stressed, and depressed about your own hair loss & yet while you’re here you ridicule another poster because he’s having trouble with his hair loss. What a creep.
And any sane person would realize that you cannot just go injecting SCUBE 3 into your head and yet you come here wanking the insane & ignorant idea of injecting SCUBE3 into your scalp, or someone else’s scalp. Your insanity & desperation are obvious.
And you’re a total idiot because we’ve all known since Cotseralis was a big name, 5 - 10 years ago, that injected treatments, similar to SCUBE3, have to be injected at specific times. And yet here you are wanking insane shit about injecting the stuff into your head, or someone else’s head. You’re so stupid and crazy that you trumpet about how SCUBE3 is readily available as if availability is what matters most. You’re obviously considering buying industrial-grade SCUBE3 and injecting it into your/someone’s scalp. We’ve seen many sure things that turned out to be duds and yet here you are trumpeting SCUBE3 as if it’s a damn near sure thing. If it’s unsafe then it doesn’t matter if it grows hair. A cure has to be both safe and effective, and it has to be used correctly, shit-for-brains.
And back in 2013 I wasn’t the only one who thought a cure could come soon. Numerous highly intelligent researchers were talking about a cure coming in 5 years. Of course they all turned out to be wrong, but that’s not the point, the point is that there were lots of reasonable intelligent people who thought a cure could be coming soon. Histogen thought they had a winner. Karestem thought they had a winner. Numerous cell-based research teams thought they had winners. Merck thought its proscar could be a game-changer. There were copper peptides and other possible cures in clinical trials and the researchers/companies studying them were hopeful. Yes, they all turned out to be wrong but I was going to trust what those researchers were saying more than i would trust a fool like you who wants to inject risky stuff into your scalp, or wants other people to inject risky stuff into their scalps.
But please be my guest, go ahead and inject your scalp with SCUBE3 and report your results back to me the same as you want other people to report their SCUBE3 results back to you. Oh and good luck with that.
Hairman asked for my take on SCUBE3. Very complicated question because the pathways it’s involved in are very complex. On the one hand, it’s part of the Sonic the Hedgehog genetic pathway which is also involved in several types of cancer. On the other hand, SCUBE3 itself is a naturally occurring molecule. I think the researchers will have to do a lot of safety testing to rule out the possibility that it’s the CAUSE of these cancers… I think it isn’t, it seems to me that the cancer inducing parts of the pathway are upstream of SCUBE3. Therefore SCUBE3 should be safe. But they can’t say that with 100% certainty so it needs to be tested for safety before going into human clinical trials for efficacy. Will probably take years… Maybe 4-5. lol 
Now with respect to injecting it into the skin … We know that SCUBE3 is involved in proliferation of DP cells, but also apparently it’s involved in STOPPING proliferation of DP cells at a certain point, causing the hair follicle to cycle from Anagen to Telogen phases.
BUT… “Involved” in stopping isn’t the same thing as “stopping” (I’ll get to this point below …)
I think it will be absolutely worthless to create some kind of protocol to inject SCUBE3 into the scalp in some kind of synchronized way coordinated with the point in the cycle of particular follicles. I hate to say it but if you know anything about cell and tissue biology this is one of the most laughable ideas I can think of.
REALITY: ALL OF THE HAIR FOLLICLES ON A GIVEN PERSON’S SCALP ARE RANDOMLY DISTRIBUED AMONG TOTALLY DIFFERENT POINTS IN A CYCLE! It is complete statistical randomness with respect to time and place in the cycle, and location on the scalp. Meaning, two adjacent follicles might be anywhere from 1 day apart, to one week, one month, one year or up to 3 years or more apart in the cycle. There is absolutely no way to know exactly where they are in the cycle unless you biopsy a follicle. You can know very roughly where they are, but you will never know exactly where they are in the cycle unless you do a tissue biopsy with a very sophisticated analysis of the cell types and markers of the DP cells and other cells at a specific time. And they don’t cluster together with certain parts of the scalp being in certain parts of the cycle, either. The distribution in time and space is TOTALLY RANDOM. And the average human scalp has 100,000 follicles.
The truth is that SCUBE3 works in a much more complicated way than just being an “on” switch sometimes and an “off” switch at other times. That is a very simplistic assumption based on a superficial reading of some of the research. BUT, I think in a way it’s much more simple than that - the truth is that if you had SCUBE3 and injected it into follicle bearing skin (if the follicles were all miniaturized) probably you will get a lot of hair growth, so it would not work as an “off” switch, just an “on” switch.
I think that’s the good news about this. It might have a complex method of action, being involved in different ways in downstream “on” and “off” signaling, but when it comes down to its direct effect on hair follicles, it is basically an on switch for hair growth and nothing more.
There is a ton of stuff that still needs to be understood. But I think that long term this is a very positive development. The safety issue just needs to be officially settled, and once that happens, I think SCUBE3 has a promising future.
Roger, Given the potential health risks with SCUBE3 isn’t it possible that SCUBE3 might never go into human trials? For example, the research community believes Sonic Hedgehog will grow hair on humans but they aren’t testing Sonic Hedgehog in human studies to treat human hair loss because of the potential risks. Sure, they do some jawing about how Sonic Hedgehog can grow hair on humans but nobody’s testing it in human studies to grow hair because of the risks, right? And couldn’t SCUBE3 fall by the wayside in the same way?
@jarjarbinx You very well may be right that the FDA might not want to touch anything associated with the Sonic the Hedgehog gene pathway, but we’ll see. I think SCUBE3 is far enough removed from the core of the pathway to be considered. And it should help that using it does NOT mean tampering in any way with the pathway, it’s just using one molecule which is like a by-product of the pathway.
Remember, there’s already SCUBE3 in your body right now. It’s a naturally-occurring molecule endogenous to the body. At least in part that means that it is demonstrably harmless to you.
Of course, the FDA might not take that as so obvious, but again… we’ll see.
Its important to remember that in hair and stem cells its not “one or none”.
That is, the hair follicle sometimes also contain 2 types of stem cells. Those that are susceptible to AA and those that are not.
That helps understand why some people retain partly miniaturized hair even when they turn norwood 6.
And why some people may notice miniaturization of hair follicles in the scalp safe donor area (especially in old/frail condition of body).
Hairloss and growth is governed/influenced by over 250 gene loci. So, there is a huge variation in susceptibility of the hair and their complex makeup.
We need broad acting molecules (Resveratrol, Grapeseed, Fisetin, AKG, Rapamycin etc.), to influence/modify the hair growth/loss. A single molecule or pathway is not the likely answer.
Do you have a positive or negative feeling about the upcoming Hair Loss Congress? I’m concerned that Covid may have limited hair loss research.
@Dr_Arvind first time I ve heard of this, it has been proven that hair follicles contain 2 types of stem cells? What about other organs in our bodies, do they typically have different types of stem cells?
@Amir It depends on how you define “stem cells”. The term “stem cells” does not always refer to a single category of cells in a tissue. It refers to any line of cells which are either undifferentiated, or partially differentiated. Stem cells is therefore a relative term, and often different scientists and clinicians use the term differently. When discussing the hair follicle, some researchers use “stem cells” only to refer to the Hair Follicle Stem Cells (HFSCs) located at the bulge of the follicle. These are the most “typical” stem cells in the follicle in that they are almost totally undifferentiated. Other scientists or clinicians often call dermal papilla cells (DP cells) “stem cells” because they are partially differentiated, and therefore have stem cell-like characteristics. But to make things even more complicated and confusing, there are other scientists who would say DP cells do not qualify as a stem cell according to the textbook definition.
Something you should know is that there is nothing magic about the term stem cells, it is just a generic relative term which encompasses a whole variety of cells and scientists can and do differ and argue whether or not a particular type of cell are stem cells, or just stem-like cells with a few properties of stem cells. Whether we like it or not, the term “stem cells” therefore has a broad range of uses in different contexts, and in practical usage by scientists its definition is a bit ambiguous.
Funny, because as far as I recall you were literally the one who made fun of people for being bald, I never did. I invite you to quote me on it.
Secondly, as @roger_that pointed out injecting SCUBE3 into a bald scalp would likely yield a lot of hair growth, my hope here is that triggering growth from long time dormant cells could reactivate / rejuvenate them. Of course I would assume that they would re-miniaturize over time until you get another scube3 shot months or years later.
But pretty hilarious how jarjarbinx resorts to calling me an desperate idiot with shit-for-brains for literally suggesting to do what the scientists have already proven to work in human follicles which were transplanted into mice. You literally just keep making a fool of yourself lol. pathetic
Thanks @roger_that for the extremely insightful analysis. From the sounds of it, it certainly seems to have a lot of potential. I wonder if one cld create a protein similar to scube3 which works only to activate but never to deactivate, alphafold to the rescue? But that is most likely not feasible since they probably use the exact same mechansim.
I generally dont care much about mainstream media coverage of these topics but this one includes an interview with the Dr. Maxim Plikus himself (the person who led the research time to this discovery). Interestingly it seems that advances in computer simulations led to the discovery.
Another interview:
I’d actually be interested… where did you read that SCUBE3 actually stops DP cell proliferation? Is that in the publication? All the media coverage seems to conveniently ignore that fact and only speak of it as a potent hair growth stimulant