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Baccy, benji, tagohl, something new with its experiences?


#1

we will soon have the news on some new experience my friends?


#2

» we will soon have the news on some new experience my friends?

I got zilch with mine. I think applying minoxidil, which burned like all hell-was a huge mistake. I also think that applying soap and water (shampooing) might also prove to be a mistake. This process takes place with stem cells from kerationcytes very close to the very surface of wounded skin. Any chemical intervention of the wrong kind might stop what the stem cells are trying to do. I think this will work, but its likely that we will have to wait for Follica to do it with external topicals unless we are willing to go the internals route.


#3

» » we will soon have the news on some new experience my friends?
»
»
»
» I got zilch with mine. I think applying minoxidil, which burned like all
» hell-was a huge mistake. I also think that applying soap and water
» (shampooing) might also prove to be a mistake. This process takes place
» with stem cells from kerationcytes very close to the very surface of
» wounded skin. Any chemical intervention of the wrong kind might stop what
» the stem cells are trying to do. I think this will work, but its likely
» that we will have to wait for Follica to do it with external topicals
» unless we are willing to go the internals route.

When would you suggest applying minox?


#4

» » » we will soon have the news on some new experience my friends?
» »
» »
» »
» » I got zilch with mine. I think applying minoxidil, which burned like
» all
» » hell-was a huge mistake. I also think that applying soap and water
» » (shampooing) might also prove to be a mistake. This process takes place
» » with stem cells from kerationcytes very close to the very surface of
» » wounded skin. Any chemical intervention of the wrong kind might stop
» what
» » the stem cells are trying to do. I think this will work, but its likely
» » that we will have to wait for Follica to do it with external topicals
» » unless we are willing to go the internals route.
»
»
» When would you suggest applying minox?

I wouldn’t unless I could obtain internal minoxidil (loniten). I really think until Follica comes out with its topical, professionally designed not to interefere with the process, that we are grasping at straws in attempting to topicall induce certain pathways while suppressing others on the skin that has been epidermally disrupted. Its just to much of a risk IMO of throwing the whole experiment. One might Inject some minox or apply it to areas AROUND the wounds, but not directly on them.


#5

» » » » we will soon have the news on some new experience my friends?
» » »
» » »
» » »
» » » I got zilch with mine. I think applying minoxidil, which burned like
» » all
» » » hell-was a huge mistake. I also think that applying soap and water
» » » (shampooing) might also prove to be a mistake. This process takes
» place
» » » with stem cells from kerationcytes very close to the very surface of
» » » wounded skin. Any chemical intervention of the wrong kind might stop
» » what
» » » the stem cells are trying to do. I think this will work, but its
» likely
» » » that we will have to wait for Follica to do it with external topicals
» » » unless we are willing to go the internals route.
» »
» »
» » When would you suggest applying minox?
»
»

» I wouldn’t unless I could obtain internal minoxidil (loniten). I really
» think until Follica comes out with its topical, professionally designed not
» to interefere with the process, that we are grasping at straws in
» attempting to topicall induce certain pathways while suppressing others on
» the skin that has been epidermally disrupted. Its just to much of a risk
» IMO of throwing the whole experiment. One might Inject some minox or apply
» it to areas AROUND the wounds, but not directly on them.

So we should avoid all topicals I suppose. Is there an oral immunosuppressant that is safe? I found Protopic as a topical:

http://discountusameds.com/protopic.php

What about taking milk thistle and tannic acid orally as EGF inhibitors? I found the following online:

Guarana Seed Extract - bottom of page:
http://www.wholehealth.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=33

Milk Thistle - multiple options
http://www.vitasprings.com/milkthistle.html

Thanks.


#6

Benji, were you following the same protocol as Baccy did in his first experiment? If it’s worked once it’ll work again. :stuck_out_tongue:


#7

» » » » » we will soon have the news on some new experience my friends?
» » » »
» » » »
» » » »
» » » » I got zilch with mine. I think applying minoxidil, which burned
» like
» » » all
» » » » hell-was a huge mistake. I also think that applying soap and water
» » » » (shampooing) might also prove to be a mistake. This process takes
» » place
» » » » with stem cells from kerationcytes very close to the very surface
» of
» » » » wounded skin. Any chemical intervention of the wrong kind might
» stop
» » » what
» » » » the stem cells are trying to do. I think this will work, but its
» » likely
» » » » that we will have to wait for Follica to do it with external
» topicals
» » » » unless we are willing to go the internals route.
» » »
» » »
» » » When would you suggest applying minox?
» »
» »
»
» » I wouldn’t unless I could obtain internal minoxidil (loniten). I really
» » think until Follica comes out with its topical, professionally designed
» not
» » to interefere with the process, that we are grasping at straws in
» » attempting to topicall induce certain pathways while suppressing others
» on
» » the skin that has been epidermally disrupted. Its just to much of a
» risk
» » IMO of throwing the whole experiment. One might Inject some minox or
» apply
» » it to areas AROUND the wounds, but not directly on them.
»
»
»
» So we should avoid all topicals I suppose. Is there an oral
» immunosuppressant that is safe? I found Protopic as a topical:
»
» http://discountusameds.com/protopic.php
»
» What about taking milk thistle and tannic acid orally as EGF inhibitors?
» I found the following online:
»
» Guarana Seed Extract - bottom of page:
» http://www.wholehealth.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=33
»
» Milk Thistle - multiple options
» http://www.vitasprings.com/milkthistle.html
»
»
»
» Thanks.

Give it a shot Forrest. Wound by abrasion in a series of 1-2 cm circular spaces, dont wash the abraded areas and try not to let water touch them. About five days later, start taking the internals and the cream. Take them for about 5-7 days…see what you have in a month. I’d love to see it work like a charm for someone, believe me.

I’ll probably try one more “round”, eliminating every variable that I can, but it might be at the beginning of the year (or later). Ive got commitments in the near term…


#8

» Benji, were you following the same protocol as Baccy did in his first
» experiment? If it’s worked once it’ll work again. :stuck_out_tongue:

I hope Baccy’s experiment works very well for him in his next run. He has a good base picture we can all compare it to. Believe me, I WISH that some mere milk thistle and anti-inflammatories were all that was needed I assure you. I’d LOVE for there to be a good way to do this at home and have nice results, Im just a bit pessimistic that there will be unless the internal drugs mentioned in the patent are used.

I feel pretty strongly about not having soap and water touch the abrasions post-wounding for a couple of weeks…or at least until proto-hairs are forming in the skin. I’d love to be wrong about that.


#9

» we will soon have the news on some new experience my friends?

baldlatino, the word “its” is ALWAYS INANIMATE… it does not refer to “you” or “yours”

i understand that in latin languages like spanish and portuguese and italian you can say “su” and it means “you” as for a person, and also “its” as in the possessive pronoun for an inanimate object or subject.

in the english language the word “it” only only only refers to an inanimate OBJECT, like a car, a rock, a shoe, or a desk. it can also be used for living but non-thinking things like a tree and a flower. it is usually used for animals like a mouse, a dog, a cat… but “it” is NEVER used to address a human being… it is completely wrong grammar and instantly looks very wrong and extremely confusing when you write it… it looks like some other language translated into english words by a computer program like babelfish that has no friggin idea what the person wants to say.

are you using babelfish or are you attempting to write english yourself???

PLEASE stop writing “it” and “its” when you are addressing people… you should be writing “you” and “your”.

what you SHOULD have written is this:

“baccy, benji, tagohl, something new with your experiences?”


#10

baldlatino, the word “its” is ALWAYS INANIMATE… it does not refer to “you” or “yours”

i understand that in latin languages like spanish and portuguese and italian you can say “su” and it means “you” as for a person, and also “its” as in the possessive pronoun for an inanimate object or subject.

in the english language the word “it” only only only refers to an inanimate OBJECT, like a car, a rock, a shoe, or a desk. it can also be used for living but non-thinking things like a tree and a flower. it is usually used for animals like a mouse, a dog, a cat… but “it” is NEVER used to address a human being… it is completely wrong grammar and instantly looks very wrong and extremely confusing when you write it… it looks like some other language translated into english words by a computer program like babelfish that has no friggin idea what the person wants to say.

are you using babelfish or are you attempting to write english yourself???

PLEASE stop writing “it” and “its” when you are addressing people… you should be writing “you” and “your”.

what you SHOULD have written is this:

“baccy, benji, tagohl, something new with your experiences?”

Good advice. Follow it!!


#11

» Good advice. Follow it!!
» You have no idea how much I despise people (like you) who act like idiots
» and/or children deliberately.
»

you have no idea how much i am honored by that statement, and how much i love getting a “rise” out of you!

since you’ve stupidly admitted to my having this effect on you, rev, i will make sure to make MANY MORE POSTS LIKE THIS AND SIMILAR TO THIS, especially when you’re around here on this board, specifically to annoy you and make you frustrated, disgusted, rankled, provoked, and anxious, or whatever negative feelings you may have when seeing my posts!

look at all the time you took to dissect my post, and to customize it with various changes of fonts, etc! looks like i am having a great effect on you!

and that’s great, because it shows you are my lowly slave, a mere peon who devotes part of his day to reading and answering baldbaby’s posts!!!:stuck_out_tongue:

keep reading, SLAVE!!! keep reading and answering baldbaby’s posts!!


#12

» » » » » » we will soon have the news on some new experience my friends?
» » » » »
» » » » »
» » » » »
» » » » » I got zilch with mine. I think applying minoxidil, which burned
» » like
» » » » all
» » » » » hell-was a huge mistake. I also think that applying soap and
» water
» » » » » (shampooing) might also prove to be a mistake. This process takes
» » » place
» » » » » with stem cells from kerationcytes very close to the very surface
» » of
» » » » » wounded skin. Any chemical intervention of the wrong kind might
» » stop
» » » » what
» » » » » the stem cells are trying to do. I think this will work, but its
» » » likely
» » » » » that we will have to wait for Follica to do it with external
» » topicals
» » » » » unless we are willing to go the internals route.
» » » »
» » » »
» » » » When would you suggest applying minox?
» » »
» » »
» »
» » » I wouldn’t unless I could obtain internal minoxidil (loniten). I
» really
» » » think until Follica comes out with its topical, professionally
» designed
» » not
» » » to interefere with the process, that we are grasping at straws in
» » » attempting to topicall induce certain pathways while suppressing
» others
» » on
» » » the skin that has been epidermally disrupted. Its just to much of a
» » risk
» » » IMO of throwing the whole experiment. One might Inject some minox or
» » apply
» » » it to areas AROUND the wounds, but not directly on them.
» »
» »
» »
» » So we should avoid all topicals I suppose. Is there an oral
» » immunosuppressant that is safe? I found Protopic as a topical:
» »
» » http://discountusameds.com/protopic.php
» »
» » What about taking milk thistle and tannic acid orally as EGF inhibitors?
»
» » I found the following online:
» »
» » Guarana Seed Extract - bottom of page:
» »
» http://www.wholehealth.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=33
» »
» » Milk Thistle - multiple options
» » http://www.vitasprings.com/milkthistle.html
» »
» »
» »
» » Thanks.
»
»
» Give it a shot Forrest. Wound by abrasion in a series of 1-2 cm circular
» spaces, dont wash the abraded areas and try not to let water touch them.
» About five days later, start taking the internals and the cream. Take them
» for about 5-7 days…see what you have in a month. I’d love
» to see it work like a charm for someone, believe me.
»
»
» I’ll probably try one more “round”, eliminating every variable that I can,
» but it might be at the beginning of the year (or later). Ive got
» commitments in the near term…

Thanks for the info Benji. Do you think applying the cream would be as disruptive to the overall process as using the topical minox? That was the heart of my question.


#13

Hey everyone.

I’ve been held up by a combination of deciding the specifics of my next attempt, waiting on drugs, and scheduling a week to look pretty ugly. I hope I can make another run sometime in November with an immune drug being part of the plan.

For what it’s worth, I am willing to eventally consider trying the FULL cancer patient scenario myself. Willing to consider oral immune suppression (very briefly) and oral EGF-R inhibition at the same time.

I certainly don’t want to do this. It ain’t safe at all. But the uncertainty is killing me here. Folica is not guaranteed to finish this thing to mass market, they’re not guaranteed to finish it even if it basically works, and there’s no guarantee that Folica will even want to publish the results as soon as they get them. Same with every other HM project on earth right now.

I don’t demand to have all my hair back in ____ months/years on some schedule. But Jesus Christ, I’ve got to at least find out whether I’m gonna spend the next 20 years bald or not. I’ve got to find out how critical it is to save every last bit of hair I’ve got now. I’ve got to find out whether a more aggressive FUE transplant is a viable risk. I can’t wait another 5-10 years just to get some answers about THIS STUFF. If all topical attempts fail repeatedly then I may go fully systemic.


#14

TAGOHL posted this discussion among doctors that he found in regards to oral cyclosporin for poison ivy and other skin events. One doc mentioned that a couple of weeks of cyclo should be OK, although he conceeded the possibility for opportunistic infections to take place. I’ll post the whole dialogue below and highlight the cyclo-oriented portions.

On getfitinib…I probably had a bad acne reaction to it because I washed (in the shower) my hair and face a day previously with nizoral (washed my face with the excess suds of the stuff)…ketoconazole increases the absorption of the drug a great deal and increases the chances for side effects. MOST people who take getfitinib dont get acne. It is dehydrating though, and is recommended to be taken with a glass of water, which is info I didn’t even bother to apply, but should have. You might have a little general fatigue and diarreaha on the stuff though, but it wasn’t too bad. Mostly I felt “dry”.

Here is the dialogue TAGOHL found on cyclo being used dermatolgoically as an internal:

CYCLOSPORIN USED TO TREAT ALLERGIC CONTACT DERMATITIS

Saw a guy Friday with extensive poison ivy contact derm on the face, left arm
and penis - and a bad history of peptic ulcer disease, so prednisone was not
a good idea. Gave him cyclosporine 200 mg bid over the weekend and he had
improved greatly when I saw him Monday. In a few days he’ll cut back to 100
mg bid, the stop the CyA in a couple of weeks. Got great before and after
photos.

I’d prefer CyA too if I had bad poison ivy, even though I’ve got no Hx of
ulcers. My big fear is avascular necrosis of bone (not common, but I if
happened to me it would be a disaster.)

KC Smith MD FRCPC

Had a lady with a lot of poison ivy on the arms and legs do well with CyA 200
mg bid for a week then 100 mg bid for another week. She’s read the prodnisone
handout and the CyA handout, and she’s glad she got CyA (for her, cost is no
object).

KC Smith MD FRCPC

Who is paying for all the CyA? In the states I’d estimate the cost of
drug at about $150 to $200. That’s a lot for a questionably documented
toxicity of steroids.

Mark Ling, M.D., Ph.D.

CyA isn’t exactly non-toxic.

Nephrotoxicity, hepatic toxicity, hypertension, systemic immunosuppression
that can result in opportunistic infection, etc.

I think I’ll stick with topical steroids.

Rick Sharpe

Drug plans pay for it, or I have some that patients give me if they don’t
need it and I pass it along to those who need it.

We’ve had some bad lawsuits about avascular necrosis (AVN) here in Canada
(luckily none against me) and we’re spooked.

AVN can happen even after a few weeks of prednisone, and is more common above
30 mg / day, in the obese, alcoholics, the very active (who put more stress
on their joints), and in those with Raynaud’s.

AVN is thought to result from obstruction of blood flow out of the bone in
the joint, because the amount of fat in the bone increases and with nowhere
to go it compresses the vessels, and perhaps there is also an element of
vasospasm.

After hearing about the possible effects of prednisone patients who can
afford it often opt for a short course of CyA. Its cheaper than a total hip!

See the premier issue (came out last month) of The Canadian Journal of
Dermatology and Dermatologic Surgery (edited by Dr. Dan Sauder) for an
excellent review of corticosteroid complications by Dr. Robert Lester.

KC Smith MD FRCPC

We all agree that CyA can certainly be a problem if used for long periods of
time - but for a couple of weeks it is remarkably devoid of problems
, and is
a lot better tolerated and (in my view) safer than 50 mg / day of prednisone.
In my experience topical corticosteroids (even under occlusion) are just not
adequate for a bad poison ivy.

If YOU had a nasty poison ivy would you:

  • suffer for 3 weeks
  • use Temovate, and still suffer for 3 weeks
  • take prednisone 50 mg / day for 10 days, then 25 mg day for 10 days and
    accept the risk of AVN (which for a derm who has to be up seeing patients all
    day and operating would be a disaster), and the risks of psychological
    disturbance and GI problems while taking prednisone.
  • take CyA 200 mg bid for 10 days, then 100 mg bid for 10 days, see your skin
    clear up in 2-4 days, and feel fine (but have your drug plan be out a couple
    of hundred bucks)?

    Give me a short course of CyA any day in preference to a short course of
    prednisone (God forbid that I should get a shot of Kenalog 40 - no way to
    control absorption kinetics, and no way to reverse it if severe psych
    effects).

KC Smith MD FRCPC

Let me clarify that I don’t automatically reject CyA for rhus
dermatitis as outrageous from a medical standpoint, rather that for now
in the US healthcare environment it seems unlikely to catch on as a
common approach. While I also agree fully with Rick Sharpe that CyA is
not a non-toxic drug, I am also aware that systemic steroids can be
highly toxic, and that topical steroids sometimes just don’t do the job
for bad cases. It would be neat to see a trial someday which compares the
two regimens, although since the major toxicity you mention, AVN, takes
decades to develop in some cases I guess it will never be definitively
answered.

BTW, regarding the AVN issue, I have never to date been impressed with
the data supporting the association of AVN with short courses of
steroids, but I’m always willing to learn.

Mark Ling, M.D., Ph.D.

I agree with the risk of AVN…I don’t believe it has been described with
topical steroids.

Rick Sharpe

Would someone please post the frequency of AVN after a short course of
systemic steroids? It was my impression that this is an unusual if not rare
complication with short courses less than 3 weeks. Also, does the specific
type of corticosteroid make any difference in the incidence statistics?

Walter H. Wood, M.D.


#15

Geez Benji . . . a few more posts like that and you’re gonna talk me into doing cyclo/genf orally for my next attempt.


#16

Cal,

The course Ive proposed is simply “to get it over with”.

To wit…the patent’s LONGEST treatment period described is 3-days-to-12 days of the compounds of the intevention phase.

The patients on getfitinib that grew the hair had been on chemo, so their T-cell responses had been “down” pretty darn low.

I think to replicate that as fully as possible and eliminate every concievable variable, one would need to probably take the cyclo pills a few hours before wounding…wound…wait about 5 days and get on getfitinib with the cyclo that they had been taking since the wound date, stay on both drugs for about 5-7 more days. In fact, the getfitinib stays in the body for a while. So after taking it for two straight days, every other day might suffice if you are doing 250 mgs of it.
If you DIDNT WASH THE ABRADED AREA, and didn’t get it wet (just like the lab SCID mice with human skin on them), and still didn’t get new hairs growing, then I think its safe to say that we have very little chance of replicating the getfitinib patients results at home and are thus better served by merely waiting for Follica (who has a hell of a lot better chance at success in this than we do). The patent says that responses were better when anti-androgens were used also, so a couple of weeks of finasteride at 1mg…sure would seem to be helpful.

With the new discovery about chromosome 20 out there, just think Cal, perhaps an antibody to which particular gene on that chromosome (there are at least 11 of them) can be found that can inhibit it topically, so that when follica actually comes out with their protocol and topical (probably about five to seven years down the line in all honesty), they might even be able to pretty much guarantee the hairs made will be like “donor” hairs.

Aderans is in phase 2 (or is at least recruiting for it), Histogen, ACELL, the genetic “cure” angle are all out there being looked into and even worked on. The math really is in our favor that science will be able to “make” more hair for a man. I’ll probably be getting a HT for my temples in the future, but Ive got to schedule the two weeks off and all that jazz. Im really not worried about getting a HT and being “stuck” anymore personally. Im willing to remain on finasteride though, and I know youre not enthusiastic about that.

BTW----I located an article (New England Journal of Medicine) that tested lavender, flutamide, and tea tree oil with some androgen-receptor-positive skin cell lines (from human breasts I think it was), and the lavender and tea tree at .005% were even more effective than flutamide was. That was the maximum effective dosage tested if memory serves. Flutamide was not however, in all probability, converted to the more powerful hydroxyflutamide by the cells in this test, so it may not be as effective as flutamide tablets. However, its obvious that lavender really might be an effective topical anti-androgen because boys using it in body washes were getting gyno from it, and that is certainly evidence that it penetrates the skin and gets down “deep enough” to really have an effect, which has been a concern with things like green tea, fluridil, etc. for some. The “new” Folligen has lavender, beta sis, and saw palmetto in it. That might be something worth looking into.


#17

» » Good advice. Follow it!!
» » You have no idea how much I despise people (like you) who act like
» idiots
» » and/or children deliberately.
» »
»
»
» you have no idea how much i am honored by that statement, and how much i
» love getting a “rise” out of you!
»
» since you’ve stupidly admitted to my having this effect on you, rev, i
» will make sure to make MANY MORE POSTS LIKE THIS AND SIMILAR TO THIS,
» especially when you’re around here on this board, specifically to annoy you
» and make you frustrated, disgusted, rankled, provoked, and anxious, or
» whatever negative feelings you may have when seeing my posts!
»
» look at all the time you took to dissect my post, and to customize it with
» various changes of fonts, etc! looks like i am having a great effect on
» you!
»
» and that’s great, because it shows you are my lowly slave, a mere
» peon who devotes part of his day to reading and answering baldbaby’s
» posts!!!:stuck_out_tongue:
»
» keep reading, SLAVE!!! keep reading and answering baldbaby’s
» posts!!

baldlatino is lucky he can write a coherent sentence in english

dissecting the nuances of his english is pointless,


#18

» baldlatino is lucky he can write a coherent sentence in english
»
» dissecting the nuances of his english is pointless,

yah, people are saying he’s running everything through an online translator, but i don’t know about that. it looks like that, but the mistake patterns are just too weird.

he’s using the word “its” in place of “your”, and that looks like he may be misreading a table of the conjugation of the english verb “to be”.


#19

» » baldlatino is lucky he can write a coherent sentence in english
» »
» » dissecting the nuances of his english is pointless,
»
» yah, people are saying he’s running everything through an online
» translator, but i don’t know about that. it looks like that, but the
» mistake patterns are just too weird.
»
» he’s using the word “its” in place of “your”, and that looks like he may
» be misreading a table of the conjugation of the english verb “to be”.

online translators and translation software is garbage it translates literally from one language to the next its lucky if it can be understood at all

your point, while well taken with a native english speaker, is completely lost on someone who cannot even type a coherent sentence in english, it is so far advanced beyond their level of comprehension its useless to even try


#20

» Hey everyone.
»
» I’ve been held up by a combination of deciding the specifics of my next
» attempt, waiting on drugs, and scheduling a week to look pretty ugly. I
» hope I can make another run sometime in November with an immune drug being
» part of the plan.
»
»
»
»
» For what it’s worth, I am willing to eventally consider trying the FULL
» cancer patient scenario myself. Willing to consider oral immune
» suppression (very briefly) and oral EGF-R inhibition at the same time.
»
» I certainly don’t want to do this. It ain’t safe at all. But the
» uncertainty is killing me here. Folica is not guaranteed to finish this
» thing to mass market, they’re not guaranteed to finish it even if it
» basically works, and there’s no guarantee that Folica will even want to
» publish the results as soon as they get them. Same with every other HM
» project on earth right now.
»
»
»
» I don’t demand to have all my hair back in ____ months/years on some
» schedule. But Jesus Christ, I’ve got to at least find out whether I’m
» gonna spend the next 20 years bald or not. I’ve got to find out how
» critical it is to save every last bit of hair I’ve got now. I’ve got to
» find out whether a more aggressive FUE transplant is a viable risk. I
» can’t wait another 5-10 years just to get some answers about THIS
» STUFF
. If all topical attempts fail repeatedly then I may go fully
» systemic.

I share Cal’s frustration. The underlying principles of this protocol seem to be too easy to test to wait for an update from Follica. My only issue is that I would prefer a cheaper and perhaps safer alternative to gefitinib. I’m considering milk thistle and tannic acid.