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Avodart and DHT levels


#1

Hello,
I have been taking Avodart for some months.
If one stops taking avodart, how long does it take till the DHT levels get back to normal, or at least how long does it take to retake lets say 50% of the DHT levels. Any insight on this?
Thanks.


#2

GI198745 is dutasteride.


#3

brm thanks!
So what this is saying is that if you stop taking avodart, after 28 days the DHT level starts to rise?
Cheers!

» GI198745 is dutasteride.


#4

Look at the first graph. Consider the 0.1 and 1mg curves. Since I guess your daily dose of avo is the standard 0.5mg you have to interpolate and roughly take an average of those two.
0.1mg: DHT suppression=100-40=60% So, you’re asking: how long for the DHT level to regain half of the “lost” value. This would be 30%. So 40 + 30 = 70% The curves says: day 45 -50. So roughly 48. And the answer is: at a 0.1mg daily intake for 28 days, cutting avo altogether will cause the DHT to regain half of its baseline value in 48-28= 20 days (3 weeks). And the DHT will back to normal at day 65, so that is after 65-28=37 days after quitting the drug.
1mg: The suppressed dht is around 90% since the average remaining percentage is 10% (read the curve). And it says that on day 84 ( that is 84-28=56 days after quitting) the DHT is 40% of its baseline value. So it has NOT YET got back half of the lost ground.
Since they chart 0.1 1 and 10 mg curves, they may assume that the interpolation should be done logarithmically. So as a conclusion, we could say that by their results, taking 0.5 mg of dut daily (which must be your case) would give some 75% of DHT suppression and that you would be around 40% at day 60. So the DHT should have taken half of its lost points around a month after quitting. 2-3 months or more (?) should probably be needed for the dht to be back at its pre drug level.


#5

Hi Brm,
Yes, I take 0.5mg per day for the last 3 months 7 days a week.
What would happen if I cut the dose, from 7 days per week, to 2 or 3 times…
What would be the difference in DHT supresion as a result of this change?
Cheers!

» Look at the first graph. Consider the 0.1 and 1mg curves. Since I guess
» your daily dose of avo is the standard 0.5mg you have to interpolate and
» roughly take an average of those two.
» 0.1mg: DHT suppression=100-40=60% So, you’re asking: how long for the DHT
» level to regain half of the “lost” value. This would be 30%. So 40 + 30 =
» 70% The curves says: day 45 -50. So roughly 48. And the answer is: at a
» 0.1mg daily intake for 28 days, cutting avo altogether will cause the DHT
» to regain half of its baseline value in 48-28= 20 days (3 weeks). And the
» DHT will back to normal at day 65, so that is after 65-28=37 days after
» quitting the drug.
» 1mg: The suppressed dht is around 90% since the average remaining
» percentage is 10% (read the curve). And it says that on day 84 ( that is
» 84-28=56 days after quitting) the DHT is 40% of its baseline value. So it
» has NOT YET got back half of the lost ground.
» Since they chart 0.1 1 and 10 mg curves, they may assume that the
» interpolation should be done logarithmically. So as a conclusion, we could
» say that by their results, taking 0.5 mg of dut daily (which must be your
» case) would give some 75% of DHT suppression and that you would be around
» 40% at day 60. So the DHT should have taken half of its lost points around
» a month after quitting. 2-3 months or more (?) should probably be needed
» for the dht to be back at its pre drug level.


#6

This question has been asked many many times. From the second set of graphs above, it seems obvious that dutasteride could be taken only once every 1, 2 or even 3 weeks without seeing any relevant change in the DHT serum level. It is funny to see how finasteride gives a dented curve in comparison with the smooth curve of dutasteride due to the difference of half life of both products. So I believe you could begin by cutting your intake from every day to 2 days in 3, wait 1 1/2 month and see whether your hairloss remains untouched. Then take it every other day and wait one more month and a half etc…
I remain a bit skeptical though about the long term efficiency. After all this drug has been designed against BPH and I imagine that Glaxo was aware of the apparent inertia of the DHT serum level after a single intake of dut. Why on earth did they adjust posology at one a day if one every 3 days was enough. Yeah right, money… but the harsh side effects of this drug make themselves felt not only by Baldies like us… And anyway they could have tripled the baseline price when it was released. Don’t know…
But you should try.


#7

Thank you brm!
So you are referring to a standard 0.5 dose right? Im having some side effects, especially stomach related and other in general.
So taking one 0.5 pill a week or twice a week could be enought righ?
Also, when you say about the strong side effects, besides erection problems, and things like that, how serious could the side effects for someone who is taking this drug but not for BPH.
Any death related cases due to avodart you heard?
Cheers!

» This question has been asked many many times. From the second set of graphs
» above, it seems obvious that dutasteride could be taken only once every 1,
» 2 or even 3 weeks without seeing any relevant change in the DHT serum
» level. It is funny to see how finasteride gives a dented curve in
» comparison with the smooth curve of dutasteride due to the difference of
» half life of both products. So I believe you could begin by cutting your
» intake from every day to 2 days in 3, wait 1 1/2 month and see whether
» your hairloss remains untouched. Then take it every other day and wait one
» more month and a half etc…
» I remain a bit skeptical though about the long term efficiency. After
» all this drug has been designed against BPH and I imagine that Glaxo was
» aware of the apparent inertia of the DHT serum level after a single intake
» of dut. Why on earth did they adjust posology at one a day if one every 3
» days was enough. Yeah right, money… but the harsh side effects of this
» drug make themselves felt not only by Baldies like us… And anyway they
» could have tripled the baseline price when it was released. Don’t know…
» But you should try.


#8

Yep. Anyway, you have no choice. Avodart is delivered under vegecap form. If you 've been taking this stuff everyday for some time, try two days on and one day off, first. Don’t cut it down to 0.5 mg every third day in one time. Always adjust your dosage continuously. I took this crap for 5 months 3 years ago and developped gynecomastia that has never disappeared since. Finasteride is safer for me though I’m currently trying a lower dose as well. Avodart has a reputation for being a very strong drug. The longer you take 5ar inhibitors (synthetic), the it’ll take to recover from the side effects once off the drug. But I think it can’t cause death since it has no direct heart related side effect.


#9

» Yep. Anyway, you have no choice. Avodart is delivered under vegecap form.
» If you 've been taking this stuff everyday for some time, try two days on
» and one day off, first. Don’t cut it down to 0.5 mg every third day in one
» time. Always adjust your dosage continuously. I took this crap for 5
» months 3 years ago and developped gynecomastia that has never disappeared
» since. Finasteride is safer for me though I’m currently trying a lower dose
» as well. Avodart has a reputation for being a very strong drug. The longer
» you take 5ar inhibitors (synthetic), the it’ll take to recover from the
» side effects once off the drug. But I think it can’t cause death since it
» has no direct heart related side effect.

Exactly what is the effect or benefit, or lets say why does the body need DHT?
Cheers!


#10

I am no doc. A list of DHT’s functions was posted some days ago on another thread. The main problem is sex. There doesn’t seem to be an accurate assessment of a roughly absolute range for the DHT serum value. Some guys have a decent sex drive with a reasonably low DHT while others have a higher DHT without any extra sex drive. Many endocrinologists suspect that the key value is the ratio T/DHT alongwith Free T. My personal case is telling. Since I’ve been taking 2.5mg fin a day, my DHT has remained practically the same but my total T and Free T have decreased. That’s it. If you have no sex drive problem while on DUT, and no other currently reported side Fx (dry skin, brain fog and so on) well, keep it on.


#11

» This question has been asked many many times. From the second set of graphs
» above, it seems obvious that dutasteride could be taken only once every 1,
» 2 or even 3 weeks without seeing any relevant change in the DHT serum
» level.

Sure, but only if you take an INCREASED DOSE (more than just a single Avodart capsule) once every 1, 2, or 3 weeks. To get the same amount of DHT suppression as taking an Avodart every day, you’d have to take 7 Avodart capsules once a week, or 14 Avodart capsules once every two weeks, or 21 Avodart capsules once every 3 weeks. See how it works? :slight_smile: You still have to get the same average dose of dutasteride, to achieve the same average level of DHT suppression.

» I remain a bit skeptical though about the long term efficiency. After
» all this drug has been designed against BPH and I imagine that Glaxo was
» aware of the apparent inertia of the DHT serum level after a single intake
» of dut.

I’m not sure what you mean by that. There’s not much “inertia” after taking just a SINGLE Avodart capsule, because it obviously hasn’t been building-up in the bloodstream for several weeks or months. But the “inertia” that you think you see after you’ve been taking it for a long time comes from the ACCUMULATED amount of the drug in your bloodstream, not any one single capsule that you happen to take on a given day.

» Why on earth did they adjust posology at one a day if one every
» 3 days was enough.

Because one Avodart capsule every 3 days is NOT enough! :slight_smile: Not enough to achieve the intended level of serum DHT reduction, anyway (about ~90% or so).

Dutasteride is a DOSE-DEPENDENT drug. You get increasingly more DHT suppression as the dose increases, thanks to the fact that it hangs around in the bloodstream so long.

.


#12

» » This question has been asked many many times. From the second set of
» graphs
» » above, it seems obvious that dutasteride could be taken only once every
» 1,
» » 2 or even 3 weeks without seeing any relevant change in the DHT serum
» » level.
»
» Sure, but only if you take an INCREASED DOSE (more than just a single
» Avodart capsule) once every 1, 2, or 3 weeks. To get the same amount of
» DHT suppression as taking an Avodart every day, you’d have to take 7
» Avodart capsules once a week, or 14 Avodart capsules once every two weeks,
» or 21 Avodart capsules once every 3 weeks. See how it works? :slight_smile: You
» still have to get the same average dose of dutasteride, to achieve
» the same average level of DHT suppression.
»
» » I remain a bit skeptical though about the long term efficiency. After
» » all this drug has been designed against BPH and I imagine that Glaxo
» was
» » aware of the apparent inertia of the DHT serum level after a single
» intake
» » of dut.
»
» I’m not sure what you mean by that. There’s not much “inertia” after
» taking just a SINGLE Avodart capsule, because it obviously hasn’t been
» building-up in the bloodstream for several weeks or months. But the
» “inertia” that you think you see after you’ve been taking it for a long
» time comes from the ACCUMULATED amount of the drug in your bloodstream,
» not any one single capsule that you happen to take on a given day.
»
» » Why on earth did they adjust posology at one a day if one every
» » 3 days was enough.
»
» Because one Avodart capsule every 3 days is NOT enough! :slight_smile: Not enough to
» achieve the intended level of serum DHT reduction, anyway (about ~90% or
» so).
»
» Dutasteride is a DOSE-DEPENDENT drug. You get increasingly more DHT
» suppression as the dose increases, thanks to the fact that it hangs around
» in the bloodstream so long.
»
» .

Hi Bryan,
So what would you say if at max. I took a capsule (0.5mg) on Monday, Wed, Fri, Sun, in other words, rest one day in btw. do you think Im wasting my time and money. What about resting 2 days.
How can you be so sure of your statement and what do you say about the graphs posted above then?
Cheers


#13

» Hi Bryan,
» So what would you say if at max. I took a capsule (0.5mg) on Monday, Wed,
» Fri, Sun, in other words, rest one day in btw. do you think Im wasting my
» time and money. What about resting 2 days.

Why do you think you’d be wasting your time and money? Taking only three Avodarts per week (like on M-W-F) would be more effective than taking Proscar every day.

» How can you be so sure of your statement and what do you say about
» the graphs posted above then?

The graphs posted above fully SUPPORT everything I’ve said. In fact, I was the who first posted those graphs a few years ago! They’ve gotten around quite a bit in the intervening years! :wink:

Almost everything I post about dutasteride on hairloss sites like this one comes from serious, published scientific studies like the Gisleskog et al studies (which is where those graphs above came from).

.


#14

» » Hi Bryan,
» » So what would you say if at max. I took a capsule (0.5mg) on Monday,
» Wed,
» » Fri, Sun, in other words, rest one day in btw. do you think Im wasting
» my
» » time and money. What about resting 2 days.
»
» Why do you think you’d be wasting your time and money? Taking only three
» Avodarts per week (like on M-W-F) would be more effective than taking
» Proscar every day.
»
» » How can you be so sure of your statement and what do you say about
» » the graphs posted above then?
»
» The graphs posted above fully SUPPORT everything I’ve said. In fact, I
» was the who first posted those graphs a few years ago! They’ve gotten
» around quite a bit in the intervening years! :wink:
»
» Almost everything I post about dutasteride on hairloss sites like this one
» comes from serious, published scientific studies like the Gisleskog et
» al
studies (which is where those graphs above came from).
»
» .

Hi Bryan,
Dont get me wrong, but I got the impression from your previous comment that unless you take 0.5mg daily you are not gonna see a change. The reason i say this is cause when brm said that given the strength of dutas, taking it once a day it was as powerful than taking it a couple of times a week, you came out and said now way… Is this what you really meant?
In other words, can I substitute a daily intake of dutas for just 2 or 3 times a week and be as effective in DHT suprresion?
Cheers!


#15

» Hi Bryan,
» Dont get me wrong, but I got the impression from your previous comment
» that unless you take 0.5mg daily you are not gonna see a change.

See a change from WHAT? I’m not sure what you mean.

» The reason i say this is cause when brm said that given the strength
» of dutas, taking it once a day it was as powerful than taking it a
» couple of times a week, you came out and said now way… Is this what
» you really meant?

Of course. How could dutasteride be JUST as powerful at two times a week as it is at every day?? It’s a dose-dependent drug. The more you take, the greater the DHT suppression that you’ll get.

I would suggest a twice-a-week dosing schedule as the MINIMUM one to take. Less than that (like only once a week), I’d start to worry about fluctuations in DHT throughout the week. Twice a week ought to be about as effective as daily Proscar, and maybe a bit more…

» In other words, can I substitute a daily intake of dutas for just 2 or 3
» times a week and be as effective in DHT suprresion?

Taking an Avodart 2 or 3 times a week obviously wouldn’t be AS effective as taking one every day, but it would work to a somewhat lesser extent.

.


#16

» » Hi Bryan,
» » Dont get me wrong, but I got the impression from your previous comment
» » that unless you take 0.5mg daily you are not gonna see a change.
»
» See a change from WHAT? I’m not sure what you mean.
»
» » The reason i say this is cause when brm said that given the strength
» » of dutas, taking it once a day it was as powerful than taking it a
» » couple of times a week, you came out and said now way… Is this what
» » you really meant?
»
» Of course. How could dutasteride be JUST as powerful at two times a week
» as it is at every day?? It’s a dose-dependent drug. The more you take,
» the greater the DHT suppression that you’ll get.
»
» I would suggest a twice-a-week dosing schedule as the MINIMUM one to take.
» Less than that (like only once a week), I’d start to worry about
» fluctuations in DHT throughout the week. Twice a week ought to be about
» as effective as daily Proscar, and maybe a bit more…
»
» » In other words, can I substitute a daily intake of dutas for just 2 or
» 3
» » times a week and be as effective in DHT suprresion?
»
» Taking an Avodart 2 or 3 times a week obviously wouldn’t be AS effective
» as taking one every day, but it would work to a somewhat lesser extent.
»
» .

Bryan,
Thanks for your post. First off this is your comment from before:
Because one Avodart capsule every 3 days is NOT enough! Not enough to achieve the intended level of serum DHT reduction, anyway (about ~90% or so).

So assuming a single capsule twice or three times a week, can you estimate the % of DHT suppresion Im likely to see, probably not in the 90s range, could it be around 70%. Could you give me a % for twice and three times a week.

Would you say the most effective and powerful drug is dutas, as opposed to proscar, finas, etc.?

Cheers


#17

See my post above about the software on this site, and my efforts to reply to you!

.


#18

» See my post above about the software on this site, and my efforts to reply
» to you!
»
» .

Bryan,
Where is the software?
Thanks


#19

It looks to me as though there is a clearance limitation of the medication. When the levels do not present a halflife-clearance-rate that exceeds the clearance limitation the “halflife” is then the rate limiting factor.

The hook upwards of 1mg/day seen in gragh A and graph C are indicative of this clearance limitation. The rounding off of .1mg/day suggests halflife rate determination. The 10mg/month graph would suggest “halflife” is even less predictable for some individuals.

The dosage increase would see a proportional increase of effectiveness up to about .5mg/day on average.

The /day graph is by far the most predictable particularly for individuals who see the lowest levels of DHT decrease. The least resistance to the drug have the least need for frequent doses.


#20

I can recommend a reputable pharmacy (Avodart) - http://www.drugs-store-online.com I received the order and it was on time and the pills work great.