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Announcing Flutagel


#1

announcing Flutagel

It can be ordered now.

For more information visit :

http://www.sinere.com/flutagel_en.html


#2

» announcing Flutagel
»
» It can be ordered now.
»
» For more information visit :
»
» http://www.sinere.com/flutagel_en.html

Curious, more interested in Nonominox MS at the moment and have a couple questions. What is the % of Ketoconozale in the mixture? Also, Minox Sulfate is supposed to be far superior to regular minoxidil. I thought it was cost prohibitive, how are you able to provide it at this cost?

As for the Flutagel, I saw on another site that you were chatting up the gel with minox in it. Now it doesn’t have it in it. What gives? Having the minox in it would prevent the possible use of additional minox and getting a higher absorbtion rate.

Not quite sure why 5% minox used 4-5 hours earlier would cause greater systemic absorbtion. Thanks.


#3

» » announcing Flutagel
» »
» » It can be ordered now.
» »
» » For more information visit :
» »
» » http://www.sinere.com/flutagel_en.html

Most promising topical yet.


#4

I didn’t see the ingredients on the site, but I doubt it includes Minoxidil Sulphate; it is really expensive and really unstable; it is believed to be the active metabolite of Minox - using Retinoic Acid or taking Tamoxifen has been demonstrated to increase the metabolization.

Keto would help, but I have experimented with Keto solutions and I doubt they have managed to get much into the product; I can’t get much higher than a 5% solution. Keto is a key ingredient though and tackles some unique pathways, but I would advise monitoring your DHEA levels if you do more than 3x/week with a 2% shampoo.

As for Flutamide itself, I am not sure if people ever got the results that it promised; certainly the number of posts here over the past 2 years have not increased. Sounds good in theory, but it probably puts too much emphasis on the whole DHT argument.

Someone should try it though and report back.

» » announcing Flutagel
» »
» » It can be ordered now.
» »
» » For more information visit :
» »
» » http://www.sinere.com/flutagel_en.html
»
» Curious, more interested in Nonominox MS at the moment and have a couple
» questions. What is the % of Ketoconozale in the mixture? Also, Minox
» Sulfate is supposed to be far superior to regular minoxidil. I thought it
» was cost prohibitive, how are you able to provide it at this cost?
»
» As for the Flutagel, I saw on another site that you were chatting up the
» gel with minox in it. Now it doesn’t have it in it. What gives? Having
» the minox in it would prevent the possible use of additional minox and
» getting a higher absorbtion rate.
»
» Not quite sure why 5% minox used 4-5 hours earlier would cause greater
» systemic absorbtion. Thanks.


#5

» As for Flutamide itself, I am not sure if people ever got the results that
» it promised; certainly the number of posts here over the past 2 years have
» not increased. Sounds good in theory, but it probably puts too much
» emphasis on the whole DHT argument.

As opposed to your “estrogen argument”? :stuck_out_tongue:

.


#6

» I didn’t see the ingredients on the site, but I doubt it includes Minoxidil
» Sulphate; it is really expensive and really unstable; it is believed to be
» the active metabolite of Minox - using Retinoic Acid or taking Tamoxifen
» has been demonstrated to increase the metabolization.
»
» Keto would help, but I have experimented with Keto solutions and I doubt
» they have managed to get much into the product; I can’t get much higher
» than a 5% solution. Keto is a key ingredient though and tackles some
» unique pathways, but I would advise monitoring your DHEA levels if you do
» more than 3x/week with a 2% shampoo.

The replied back on another site that it is indeed minox sulphate. Who knows?? The keto is .5% but is in a “leave in” product.

BTW, are you still crushing keto tablets and putting into Dermovan?? I know you always said your “formula” wasn’t ready for prime time, but I’d be interested in learning more.


#7

Correct Bryan,

We still pursue our separate paths. :slight_smile:

I am making more of my own topicals these days in an attempt to get around bioavailability issues. And yes, anti-E is one part of the plan.

» » As for Flutamide itself, I am not sure if people ever got the results
» that
» » it promised; certainly the number of posts here over the past 2 years
» have
» » not increased. Sounds good in theory, but it probably puts too much
» » emphasis on the whole DHT argument.
»
» As opposed to your “estrogen argument”? :stuck_out_tongue:
»
» .


#8

Nope. I am making solutions with Keto now. I still have a ton of the 2% cream and use it occasionally.

» » I didn’t see the ingredients on the site, but I doubt it includes
» Minoxidil
» » Sulphate; it is really expensive and really unstable; it is believed to
» be
» » the active metabolite of Minox - using Retinoic Acid or taking
» Tamoxifen
» » has been demonstrated to increase the metabolization.
» »
» » Keto would help, but I have experimented with Keto solutions and I
» doubt
» » they have managed to get much into the product; I can’t get much higher
» » than a 5% solution. Keto is a key ingredient though and tackles some
» » unique pathways, but I would advise monitoring your DHEA levels if you
» do
» » more than 3x/week with a 2% shampoo.
»
» The replied back on another site that it is indeed minox sulphate. Who
» knows?? The keto is .5% but is in a “leave in” product.
»
» BTW, are you still crushing keto tablets and putting into Dermovan?? I
» know you always said your “formula” wasn’t ready for prime time, but I’d
» be interested in learning more.


#9

» Nope. I am making solutions with Keto now. I still have a ton of the 2%
» cream and use it occasionally.

Makes sense. Are you crushing 200mg keto pills for your solutions?


#10

BTW, have you seen the latest evidence against the “estrogen hypothesis”? They did a controlled trial in HUMANS using the same drug that Smart had originally used years ago on his mice, and verified once and for all what we’ve been suggesting for years; namely, the drug (an estrogen blocker) had no effect on human MPB. This new study is hot off the presses…it’s brand spanking new.

The evidence against the estrogen hypothesis continues to grow! :slight_smile:

.


#11

Can you send me a link, or the report text?

» BTW, have you seen the latest evidence against the “estrogen hypothesis”?
» They did a controlled trial in HUMANS using the same drug that Smart had
» originally used years ago on his mice, and verified once and for all what
» we’ve been suggesting for years; namely, the drug (an estrogen blocker)
» had no effect on human MPB. This new study is hot off the presses…it’s
» brand spanking new.
»
» The evidence against the estrogen hypothesis continues to grow! :slight_smile:
»
» .


#12

Yes.

» » Nope. I am making solutions with Keto now. I still have a ton of the 2%
» » cream and use it occasionally.
»
» Makes sense. Are you crushing 200mg keto pills for your solutions?


#13

» Can you send me a link, or the report text?

I don’t have a link to the full text, but here’s the abstract.

Br J Dermatol. 2008 Jan;158(1):109-15. Epub 2007 Nov 6.
“Topical fulvestrant solution has no effect on male and postmenopausal female androgenetic alopecia: results from two randomized, proof-of-concept studies.” Gassmueller J, Hoffmann R, Webster A.
Bioskin Institute for Dermatological Research and Development GmbH, Poppenbuetteler Bogen 25, Hamburg, Germany.

BACKGROUND: Androgenetic alopecia (pattern baldness) affects approximately half of all white-skinned men and women over the age of 40 years. Based on preclinical studies in mice in which topical fulvestrant (ICI182,780, an anti-oestrogen) caused telogen hair follicles to enter anagen, thereby causing hair growth, a topical formulation of fulvestrant was developed for the potential treatment of androgenetic alopecia. OBJECTIVES: To evaluate the efficacy of fulvestrant solution in stimulating hair growth in men and postmenopausal women with androgenetic alopecia in two randomized, phase II, minoxidil- and/or vehicle-controlled studies. METHODS: One hundred and two white-skinned men aged 18-50 years with Norwood/Hamilton grades III, IIIv, IV, V or Va androgenetic alopecia received topical fulvestrant 70 mg mL(-1) solution, vehicle or minoxidil 2% solution twice daily for 16 weeks. Seventy postmenopausal women with Ludwig grade 1 or 2 androgenetic alopecia received topical fulvestrant 70 mg mL(-1) solution or vehicle twice daily for 16 weeks. The endpoints in both studies were hair density, cumulative hair thickness and hair growth rate, measured by TrichoScan analysis of digital images. RESULTS: There were no statistically significant differences favouring fulvestrant over vehicle at study end (day 113) for any of the efficacy parameters in men or women. Statistically significant differences in favour of minoxidil over fulvestrant were seen from day 57 onwards for hair density, cumulative hair thickness and hair growth rate in men. CONCLUSIONS: These results indicate a lack of effect of topical fulvestrant in the treatment of subjects with androgenetic alopecia. The reasons for this lack of effect remain unclear.


#14

This is the most convincing (ie. damning) data point I have seen; it indicates that E does not inhibit anagen, which was my belief - and apparently these researchers belief as well.

So on this datapoint E appears neutral; it certainly doesn’t appear to harm or benefit hair.

One consideration might be that E and DHT have to be both suppressed for regrowth, but I will admit that this may be stretching things.

I will have to look at fulvestrant.

Tx for the abstract.

» » Can you send me a link, or the report text?
»
» I don’t have a link to the full text, but here’s the abstract.
»
»
» Br J Dermatol. 2008 Jan;158(1):109-15. Epub 2007 Nov 6.
» “Topical fulvestrant solution has no effect on male and postmenopausal
» female androgenetic alopecia: results from two randomized,
» proof-of-concept studies.” Gassmueller J, Hoffmann R, Webster A.
» Bioskin Institute for Dermatological Research and Development GmbH,
» Poppenbuetteler Bogen 25, Hamburg, Germany.
»
» BACKGROUND: Androgenetic alopecia (pattern baldness) affects approximately
» half of all white-skinned men and women over the age of 40 years. Based on
» preclinical studies in mice in which topical fulvestrant (ICI182,780, an
» anti-oestrogen) caused telogen hair follicles to enter anagen, thereby
» causing hair growth, a topical formulation of fulvestrant was developed
» for the potential treatment of androgenetic alopecia. OBJECTIVES: To
» evaluate the efficacy of fulvestrant solution in stimulating hair growth
» in men and postmenopausal women with androgenetic alopecia in two
» randomized, phase II, minoxidil- and/or vehicle-controlled studies.
» METHODS: One hundred and two white-skinned men aged 18-50 years with
» Norwood/Hamilton grades III, IIIv, IV, V or Va androgenetic alopecia
» received topical fulvestrant 70 mg mL(-1) solution, vehicle or minoxidil
» 2% solution twice daily for 16 weeks. Seventy postmenopausal women with
» Ludwig grade 1 or 2 androgenetic alopecia received topical fulvestrant 70
» mg mL(-1) solution or vehicle twice daily for 16 weeks. The endpoints in
» both studies were hair density, cumulative hair thickness and hair growth
» rate, measured by TrichoScan analysis of digital images. RESULTS: There
» were no statistically significant differences favouring fulvestrant over
» vehicle at study end (day 113) for any of the efficacy parameters in men
» or women. Statistically significant differences in favour of minoxidil
» over fulvestrant were seen from day 57 onwards for hair density,
» cumulative hair thickness and hair growth rate in men. CONCLUSIONS: These
» results indicate a lack of effect of topical fulvestrant in the treatment
» of subjects with androgenetic alopecia. The reasons for this lack of
» effect remain unclear.


#15

Fulvestrant is interesting in that it operates very differently from Arimidex or Tamoxifen.

Tamoxifen is sometimes E-receptor agonist, sometimes antagonist.
Arimidex blocks production of E, but doesn’t impact the receptors directly.
Fulvestrant is a systemwide E-receptor antagonist.

» » Can you send me a link, or the report text?
»
» I don’t have a link to the full text, but here’s the abstract.
»
»
» Br J Dermatol. 2008 Jan;158(1):109-15. Epub 2007 Nov 6.
» “Topical fulvestrant solution has no effect on male and postmenopausal
» female androgenetic alopecia: results from two randomized,
» proof-of-concept studies.” Gassmueller J, Hoffmann R, Webster A.
» Bioskin Institute for Dermatological Research and Development GmbH,
» Poppenbuetteler Bogen 25, Hamburg, Germany.
»
» BACKGROUND: Androgenetic alopecia (pattern baldness) affects approximately
» half of all white-skinned men and women over the age of 40 years. Based on
» preclinical studies in mice in which topical fulvestrant (ICI182,780, an
» anti-oestrogen) caused telogen hair follicles to enter anagen, thereby
» causing hair growth, a topical formulation of fulvestrant was developed
» for the potential treatment of androgenetic alopecia. OBJECTIVES: To
» evaluate the efficacy of fulvestrant solution in stimulating hair growth
» in men and postmenopausal women with androgenetic alopecia in two
» randomized, phase II, minoxidil- and/or vehicle-controlled studies.
» METHODS: One hundred and two white-skinned men aged 18-50 years with
» Norwood/Hamilton grades III, IIIv, IV, V or Va androgenetic alopecia
» received topical fulvestrant 70 mg mL(-1) solution, vehicle or minoxidil
» 2% solution twice daily for 16 weeks. Seventy postmenopausal women with
» Ludwig grade 1 or 2 androgenetic alopecia received topical fulvestrant 70
» mg mL(-1) solution or vehicle twice daily for 16 weeks. The endpoints in
» both studies were hair density, cumulative hair thickness and hair growth
» rate, measured by TrichoScan analysis of digital images. RESULTS: There
» were no statistically significant differences favouring fulvestrant over
» vehicle at study end (day 113) for any of the efficacy parameters in men
» or women. Statistically significant differences in favour of minoxidil
» over fulvestrant were seen from day 57 onwards for hair density,
» cumulative hair thickness and hair growth rate in men. CONCLUSIONS: These
» results indicate a lack of effect of topical fulvestrant in the treatment
» of subjects with androgenetic alopecia. The reasons for this lack of
» effect remain unclear.