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...."all patients showed substantial ...increases in hair counts"


#1

Im cutting a pasting from the ICX website:

"Two sub-groups of five subjects each were injected with DP cells using different delivery techniques. In the first sub-group, two out of five patients showed substantial increases in hair count at 24 weeks. In the second sub-group, all patients showed substantial and visible increased hair counts at six or twelve weeks. A further eight subjects will be treated with variations in delivery technique. The full data set on all subjects at 24 weeks will be available in during 2008. This detailed analysis will form the basis of further Phase II or Phase III trials as appropriate.

At the end of the trial, photographic data will be analysed from a much larger area of treated scalp on all subject at 12 months."

If phase two was a bust…then they are just lying to us and everyone. The verbiage above indicates they grew some impressive hair…in a mere six weeks to twelve weeks.


#2

Without preestimulation, 2/5 patients actually LOST HAIR.
and for the preestimulated patients, ICX does not even have the courage to tell us the real figures and details.

If the preestimulation technique is so good, why they are discontinuing the trials so abruptly?
Note that they are not going to inject more people for phase II.
They have declared PhaseII OVER.

This cannot be worse.


#3

» If the preestimulation technique is so good, why they are discontinuing
» the trials so abruptly?
» Note that they are not going to inject more people for phase II.
» They have declared PhaseII OVER

n/t


#4

» » If the preestimulation technique is so good, why they are discontinuing
» » the trials so abruptly?
» » Note that they are not going to inject more people for phase II.
» » They have declared PhaseII OVER
»
» n/t

…“In the second sub-group, all patients showed substantial and visible increased hair counts at six or twelve weeks. A further eight subjects will be treated with variations in delivery technique. The full data set on all subjects at 24 weeks will be available in during 2008”

Spanish Dude…if it is a bust, then they are outright lying to all of us. If thats the case…I’d put them in the boat Ive put Aderans in within my own thoughts-----which is to say I expect nothing out of them period. Aderans hasn’t even updated their website in almost two years, I can tell they are stuck. No trials, no trial data…stuck.

Its either one or two things…either they think its sellable now, or they are stuck with haphazard results and arent willing to invest more time/money. In which case Follica is the only thing left with a chance.


#5

Hey benji,

Obviously the the DP injections plus prestimulation works inasmuch people get “substantial” and “visible” hair growth. But keep in mind that this report gives the best possible news – i.e., they are spinning the hell out of the data. And so of course this begs a host of questions. E.g., how “substantial” and “visible” is the hair growth? Why are there no photographs? Why is there no attempt at a description of the results? Given their “promising” results, why are they discontinuing funding of Phase III and commercialization?

This is bad news, folks!

Best,
BB


#6

BB wrote:

  "<em>Why are there no photographs? Why is there no attempt at a description of the results? Given their "promising" results, why are they discontinuing funding of Phase III and commercialization</em>? "

BOSTON BALDY…that is EXACTLY what I want to know dammitt!!!

Hairsite needs to email ICX anBE RUDE IF NECESSARY and d DEMAND the photos of the three 24 week trialees before and after, and threaten to badmouth ICX if they arent willing to fax three copies of pictures of these guys heads. If they are unwilling to do this…it means they dont have anything to get excited about. Im sorry but a mere ten terminal hairs per square inch turning into twenty isn’t jack when one is supposed to have a good hundred there. That isn’t enough to get anyone excited.

What we need to know are in three pictures that I know that THEY FRIGGIN’ HAVE.

BostonBaldy, between me and you…Im a hell of alot more excited about Follica and have been since Ive read their patent. Cotsarialis made mention in one of his interviews about the difficulties in trying to get DP cells to do this and that instead of letting the body do what it naturally does in response to dermal injury by itself. Kligman noted ‘it’ in dermabrasion patients in the seventies, we see ‘it’ in animals, we have all heard weird stories about car accident victims and lightning strike victims having weird hair growth on bald heads…Its been the “leader” in my mind for a few months.

Aderans failure for this amount of time (hell since about 2000) and Intercytex having waited three years between phase one and phase two has steeled me to the possiblity that they will be stuck. Their own words though----“substantial” in particular led me to believe they were growing alot of hair. If they are not, then they are liars. Pictures should be released for investors sake or at least mathematical trial data precisely measuring hair counts. I wouldn’t invest in anyone oil company that promised “substantial” barrels of oil in the ground without a geologist giving me a barrel estimate from a third untineterested party, I can sure as hell tell you that.


#7

These 8 subjects are the last ones. After them, phase II is over.
Quote:

We have now completed the treatment phase of our Phase II study, being conducted by Dr Bessam Farjo in Manchester, to optimise the delivery of the DP cells.

We do not intend to finance the continuation of clinical and commercial development of ICX-TRC beyond the current Phase II trial and shall seek to sign a partner…
<<

As you can see, they are not going to continue research, and they are not going to commercialize it. Unless they get money from someone else. This means that the current investors are not interested on giving them more money for TRC.
Again… if the prestimulation technique is so good, why don’t they continue the PhaseII trials to fine-tune it, and increase the value of TRC, and then, start a small scale commercialization, like they are doing with Vavelta??
Continuing Phase II is not so expensive. Cohorts are very small.

» …“In the second sub-group, all patients showed
» substantial and visible increased hair counts
at six or twelve weeks.
» A further eight subjects will be treated with variations in delivery
» technique. The full data set on all subjects at 24 weeks will be available
» in during 2008”

ICX is not giving us the real figures of these patients. In the last report, they gave obscure percentages. Now they are not giving us ANYTHING.
Common sense says to me: THIS IS OVER.
Unless Paul Kemp comes forward to us, and explains the whole thing, I would consider this OVER.

After so many years waiting, … we are back to the starting point.

It seems that we are cursed. :frowning:

»
»
»
»
»
» Spanish Dude…if it is a bust, then they are outright
» lying to all of us.
If thats the case…I’d put them in the
» boat Ive put Aderans in within my own thoughts-----which is to say I expect
» nothing out of them period. Aderans hasn’t even updated their website in
» almost two years, I can tell they are stuck. No trials, no trial
» data…stuck.
»
»
»
»
» Its either one or two things…either they think its sellable
» now, or they are stuck with haphazard results and arent willing to invest
» more time/money. In which case Follica is the only thing left with a
» chance.

No, they don’t think it is sellable, because they have said they don’t seek commercial development:
quote:

We do not intend to finance the continuation of clinical and commercial development of ICX-TRC beyond the current Phase II trial and shall seek to sign a partner…
<<<

Also, note that they are not mentioning 2010 as release date anymore in their website.


#8

Im going to quote:

By using the Intercytex cell therapy technique almost limitless hair regeneration is possible in a less invasive procedure. Furthermore, treatment can commence early on in the hair loss process with retreatment available in subsequent years. The barrier to commercial success for ICX-TRC is relatively low, being the ability to increase hair count in transplanted or thinning areas.”

“limitless hair regenration is possible”> If these trials were dissapointing, then they owe everyone an apology because when you sling around words like that you are insinuating that the technology is very good and obvious results have been obtained. If they are turning ten hairs into twenty in an entire square inch, “limitless” hair regeneration sure as hell does not look possible.

If the results aren’t at lest “fairly good”, then we are being lied to and they should be sued on behalf of their shareholders. We just watched BearSterns have to get bailed out with our tax money because the analysts who worked there bought up tons of worthless securities that were bad investments—and now every taxpayer has to pick up the tab and deal with the inflation that will ensue. These companies should be MADE to give out honest results of their tests to the public if they are public entities and elicit you to buy their stock.


#9

Benji, they are not posting photos. Not even figures. Not even obscure percentages anymore.
Why should we believe them?
They are selling stocks, but they are not telling us the numbers of hairs?
Right now, they are starting to look like Bazan, asking donations but hiding information.

I hope Paul Kemp grants us an interview and explains the whole thing in a satisfactory way.


#10

» Benji, they are not posting photos. Not even figures. Not even obscure
» percentages anymore.
» Why should we believe them?
» They are selling stocks, but they are not telling us the numbers of
» hairs?
» Right now, they are starting to look like Bazan, asking donations but
» hiding information.
»
» I hope Paul Kemp grants us an interview and explains the whole thing in a
» satisfactory way.

I agree one million percent. The more I look at it, the more pissed off I am.


#11

Hey benji,

This is not a good idea:

» Hairsite needs to email ICX anBE RUDE IF NECESSARY and d DEMAND the
» photos of the three 24 week trialees before and after, and threaten to
» badmouth ICX if they arent willing to fax three copies of pictures of
» these guys heads
. If they are unwilling to do
» this…it means they dont have anything to get
» excited about. Im sorry but a mere ten terminal hairs per square inch
» turning into twenty isn’t jack when one is supposed to have a good hundred
» there. That isn’t enough to get anyone excited.

Intercytex is not the enemy! The reason they’re spinning the hell out of ICX-TRC is because they want the product to have a buyer who will continue to test and commercialize the product. The fact is the Intercytex is broke (10.2 million pound loss last year) and so they’re hoping for a buyer. So having them release the data and us finding out it’s sh*t (or conversely, us badmouthing Intercytex) will do no good whatsoever. Having said this, I really think ICX-TRC has been a failure, at least measured in terms of their own rhetoric 3-5 years ago.

And obviously I’m in the same boat as you – Follica has always looked far more promising to me, at least since they published the results from their May '07 study on hair regeneration in mice!

Best,
BB


#12

ICX is using “optimistic speech”. All companies do that. They promote themselves. This is normal.
I don’t think they should go to jail for that.

Are they lying to us? IMO, no.
Are they hiding information to us? Yes.
Are they misguiding us? IMO, yes.

We have seen the collapse of many myths: Bazan, Gho, Isolagen…
It seems that we have another one: TRC.

Note: I am not saying that ICX is a failure company altogether.
ICX is concentrating efforts on skin products, and they might be successful on these, who knows.


#13

» Benji, they are not posting photos. Not even figures. Not even obscure
» percentages anymore.
» Why should we believe them?
» They are selling stocks, but they are not telling us the numbers of
» hairs?
» Right now, they are starting to look like Bazan, asking donations but
» hiding information.
»
» I hope Paul Kemp grants us an interview and explains the whole thing in a
» satisfactory way.

Amen Spanish dude … Amen

(BTW welcome back!)


#14

» I agree one million percent. The more I look at it, the
» more pissed off I am.

thank you, Benji.
I am also very depressed. All my hopes were with ICX.
Now I don’t see a solution for our problem anymore.


#15

» Hey benji,
»
» This is not a good idea:
»
» » Hairsite needs to email ICX anBE RUDE IF NECESSARY and d DEMAND the
» » photos of the three 24 week trialees before and after, and threaten to
» » badmouth ICX if they arent willing to fax three copies of pictures of
» » these guys heads
. If they are unwilling to do
» » this…it means they dont have anything to get
» » excited about. Im sorry but a mere ten terminal hairs per square inch
» » turning into twenty isn’t jack when one is supposed to have a good
» hundred
» » there. That isn’t enough to get anyone excited.
»
»
» Intercytex is not the enemy! The reason they’re spinning the hell out of
» ICX-TRC is because they want the product to have a buyer who will continue
» to test and commercialize the product. The fact is the Intercytex is broke
» (10.2 million pound loss last year) and so they’re hoping for a buyer. So
» having them release the data and us finding out it’s sh*t (or conversely,
» us badmouthing Intercytex) will do no good whatsoever. Having said this, I
» really think ICX-TRC has been a failure, at least measured in terms of
» their own rhetoric 3-5 years ago.
»
» And obviously I’m in the same boat as you – Follica has always looked far
» more promising to me, at least since they published the results from their
» May '07 study on hair regeneration in mice!
»
» Best,
» BB

Amen Part 2… Finally somebody that shows a bit of critical thinking…


#16

» » Benji, they are not posting photos. Not even figures. Not even obscure
» » percentages anymore.
» » Why should we believe them?
» » They are selling stocks, but they are not telling us the numbers of
» » hairs?
» » Right now, they are starting to look like Bazan, asking donations but
» » hiding information.
» »
» » I hope Paul Kemp grants us an interview and explains the whole thing in
» a
» » satisfactory way.
»
»
» Amen Spanish dude … Amen

yes, this is a terrible day, I am afraid.

» (BTW welcome back!)

thanks!