Wounding...How long on the topicals?

Stem cell; cell based hair therapy
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»
» Did you use the minox with lithium and the milk thistle? You could have.
» Minoxidil increases new follicle generation after abrasion. Continuing on
» probably couldn’t hurt…it would be similar to applying it to a
» baldness-prone part of the scalp.

I’ve not introduced minox yet due to the alcohol content and the possiblity of this interfering with the natural healing ie: acting as an antiseptic. My current plan is to introduce minox into the topical at about Day 12.

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In EXAMPLE 14 in the patent, with mice, the EGF-receptor inhibitor was injected in the center of the wound after re-epilithialization (which is longer in mice than it is in humans—day 11 in this instance). It resulted in more and larger hair follicles.

In EXAMPLE 7 of the patent, the one with human skin growing human hair, hair germs were detected on day 7. We notice they admit that the adjuvants (EGF-inhibitor, etc.) can be placed on the skin as early as Day 3. The depth of the wound will obviously play a big role in how soon your skin re-epilithializes. As TAGOHL pointed out, when the keratinocytes cover the wound, I suppose its time to start blocking EGF. Its going to be difficult to say for certain since this will be hair in people’s hairlines though. If we had precision wounding instruments like Follica will have, we could probably calibrate them to produce a wound only as deep as necessary and the epilithialization would take place on a certain day if your dermal characteristics were normal…

■ after completion of the reepithelialization process (e.g., 3-12 days, or 9- 11 days after having disrupted the skin)…

SUNBURN…

“…or through any method that results in disturbing the intactness of the epidermis or epidermal layer including burning (e.g., by inducing a sunburn) or perforating the epidermis or epidermal -layer” …I suppose the Getfitinib guy with the regrowth might have done this afterall…

How to handle the wound post-wounding…
"Optionally, the skin, following the epidermal disruption, is not contacted for a period of time with any substance (e.g., ointment, a bandage, or a device) that is normally administered to an abrasion or wound to prevent infection.

Here the skin is not contacted with any substance until, for example, the ■ •■ - epidermal disruption -has healed (e.g., any time between 2 days and 3 weeks). Alternatively, the skin can be contacted with a cast or bandage (e.g., resulting in increased blood flow to the disrupted skin or decreased transdermal water loss or decreased mass transfer of gases into the skin and from the skin (e.g. oxygen, carbon dioxide, water vapor), decreased heat transfer from the skin (e.g. resulting in an increased temperature of the skin surface) or increased pressure on the skin."

That seems to me pretty straight forward. I suppose one could say “soap” is something put on a wound to prevent infection. Im going to err on the side of caution and try to not let soap hit the wound until it at least re-epilithializes myself, but hope others that wash anyway have growth (believe me, I hate not being able to not wash anything and would much rather be able to).

“The disruption of the epidermis can be induced between 3-12 days (e.g., 4-12, 5-12, 4-11, 6-11, 6-10, 6-9, 7-8, 5-11, 5-10, or 7-10 days) prior to the addition of the compositions of the invention.”

Thats about it. Ive depilated, and three days later abraded. On Monday morning, I suppose I’ll be taking milk thistle extract. Im on dutasteride now. I’ll also apply minox AROUND (but not directly on) the wounds monday. Im going to use them for a good seven or eight days or so for certain. Hair germs were detected in human skin by day 7 post-wounding, so this gives me a little more time.

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» I’d be surprised of any humans get colorless follicles, unless maybe the
» rest of their scalp hair was already grey/white from age.
»
» The hair characteristics, including color, curl, thickness, direction, and
» density, ALL come from the skin’s DNA.
»
»
» I suspect that the color issues in the tests were just a product of the
» fact that they were messing with skin grafts and not live humans.

this is what Im thinking…the getfitinib’s guy’s growth was pigmented…of course thats assuming EDIHN took place with him and not some fantastic hypertrichotic effect of getfitinib that no one knows about heretofore. Ive never seen someone have regrowth on frontal baldness like that after such a long time of being bald. Not in the front. Im assuming that EDIHN hair.

24

» this is what Im thinking…the getfitinib’s guy’s growth was
» pigmented…of course thats assuming EDIHN took place with him and not
» some fantastic hypertrichotic effect of getfitinib that no one knows about
» heretofore. Ive never seen someone have regrowth on frontal baldness like
» that after such a long time of being bald. Not in the front. Im assuming
» that EDIHN hair.

Here’s the color issue that I’m really trippin’ off of:

The guy’s existing hair looks like it was originally brown but is well into the salt & pepper stage of graying.

It’s hard to tell from just the pic we’ve got, but the new hairs look ALL the dark brown color to me.

I see NO GRAY HAIRS in the new stuff, unlike what’s on the rest of his head.

25

well so whats happening so far?? trialers?

26

if it works extremly well ill pay money to the guy that got the best results to do it to me :slight_smile: some motivation for ya lol:-D

27

As for the post-wounding period before starting topicals:

Isn’t there a relatively consistent message in these patents that 3-5 days is the window they think is right (for live humans)?

It seems like we’re overthinking this a bit. We’re using this stuff for a week and a half. IMO, starting the drugs 24 hours early or late doesn’t sound likely to be a huge deal-breaker.

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» As for the post-wounding period before starting topicals:
»
» Isn’t there a relatively consistent message in these patents that 3-5 days
» is the window they think is right (for live humans)?

They actually give a range in the patent. I’ll have to check my notes, but the range is about 3 days to a few weeks. They mention ranges repeatedly, in fact. How long you should actually wait depends on the wound and how long it takes to re-epithialize.

I think the “embryonic window” opens after re-epithialization. That is, the window is relative to re-epithialization (the time to reach that is variable, depending on the wound and the person), and not when the wounding was actually done (which is more a constant amount of time).

» It seems like we’re overthinking this a bit. We’re using this stuff for a
» week and a half. IMO, starting the drugs 24 hours early or late doesn’t
» sound likely to be a huge deal-breaker.

I don’t know what happens if you start a little early. It’s something that I’ve been wondering about. If you start too late, you’ll miss the window. If you start a little late, you may not get the full effect. In this scenario, I don’t know what the definition of ‘early’ or ‘late’ or ‘a little’ is. Maybe a day either way is inconsequential. But I would still base the start time on the status of the wound (as much as you can, anyway), rather than on some constant amount of time.

29

Yeah, I agree. Your own injured skin would be the thing to believe over any patented timeline that somebody typed on paper.

But how would you even call it?

I’ve already given myself dermabrasion-deep wounds last fall just goofing around. I watched it heal up with some curiosity at the time, but I still don’t remember a lot of specific appearances & stages of the healing process very well looking back.

It was all just F-ed up skin as I recall. It turned very red about a day or two after the injury, peeled in a few more days, and the new skin looked pink & tender for a couple of weeks. That’s the best I can recall.

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» » How about that WNT inhibitor?
»
» As far as drugs or supplements you can buy to do this, it beats me. The
» patent talks about naturally occuring proteins in your body that inhibit
» WNT.

Dont mind some input from a random person…I lurk alot more than I post:-D

Ive been looking alot into this patent as well and will be trialling it with some herbal remedies myself soon.

As for the WNT inhibitor, may I suggest green tea?

http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/abstract/281/16/10865

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» As for the WNT inhibitor, may I suggest green tea?
»
» http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/abstract/281/16/10865
»

You need to PROMOTE wnt not inhibit it. Green tea inhibits both EGF (required) and wnt (most undesirable) which is why I didn’t choose it as an EGF inhibitor. I’m using milk thistle to inhibit EGF and lithium to promote wnt.

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» » As for the WNT inhibitor, may I suggest green tea?
» »
» »
» http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/abstract/281/16/10865
» »
»
» You need to PROMOTE wnt not inhibit it. Green tea inhibits both EGF
» (required) and wnt (most undesirable) which is why I didn’t choose it as an
» EGF inhibitor. I’m using milk thistle to inhibit EGF and lithium to promote
» wnt.

That’s what I thought and that’s what I’m looking at doing. The post I was replying to was discussing the prospect of inhibiting it immediately, hence I put forward that idea.

On another note, just a quick thanks for your effort in your trials and all the best.

33

That wnt inhibitor was for an advanced version where first few days you’d inhibit wnt in order to encourage the hair to grow coloured.

I do not think that it is necessary though. The gefinitib guy did not do any wnt stuff and still grew hair.

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» I’ve already given myself dermabrasion-deep wounds last fall
»
» But how would you even call it?

That’s one thing I have to research and figure out. The patent says that re-epithialization can be observed by the naked eye, as the wound becomes shiny, white, or glossy, or something like that. But I normally don’t see that in the wounds I get from time to time. Maybe I haven’t been looking closely enough.

The reason why I said I wondered what happens if you start the meds a little early is because I am not sure if I will be able tell from sight exactly when to start taking them. But maybe you’re right and a day or so either way is not that big a deal. Still, I am going to try to time it as best I can according to the wound. I’ll probably buy a cheap magnifying glass and read up some more on wound healing.

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» It seems that the board is producing one unique procedure to follow.
» According to me thats the wrong way to move. We certainly need to pursue
» “different” strategies for different trialers, for instance some need to
» test the WNT inhibition then the WNT promotion others should only do the
» EGFR inhibition and leaving the WNT pathways for the body . Later on we can
» compare the results and judge according to them. Finally dont forget that
» Baccy had already some kind of “positive” results. So MAY BE we only need
» something like 2 more trialers confirming that to have the proof of concept
» for this procedure .Hence, we need to go into the optimization road of this
» procedure.
»
» Best Regards.

Hey Guys! I wouldnt try this stuff at home…it wont work…they have a freaking lab at a very credential university…plus the main component or procudure wont be available to us commoners…they can make hair grow we cant…so i wouldnt expect anyone but them to do this right…unless u work with them and got insider info…lol

36

» “Reepithelialization can be detected through inspection of the new
» epidermis where covering of the wound area by keratinocytes indicates
» reepithelialization. The presence of a keratinocytes can be seen with the
» naked eye as a white, glossy, shiny surface that gradually covers the open
» wound.”

This is 24 hours before abrasion. See the white part of the circle. Could this be reepithelialization? I destroy my skin to the dermis and the day before I do I found that the skin was like scalp, instead of pigmented skin. Now I got a crust. Sorry for the quality of the pic.

37

» That wnt inhibitor was for an advanced version where first few days you’d
» inhibit wnt in order to encourage the hair to grow coloured.
»
» I do not think that it is necessary though. The gefinitib guy did not do
» any wnt stuff and still grew hair.

Are you sure Debris ! The Wnt inhibition might turn to be crucial for the size of the new hair or the count or something else.In patents they deliberately ignore certain details or even give misguiding information. Who knows !

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» » “Reepithelialization can be detected through inspection of the new
» » epidermis where covering of the wound area by keratinocytes indicates
» » reepithelialization. The presence of a keratinocytes can be seen with
» the
» » naked eye as a white, glossy, shiny surface that gradually covers the
» open
» » wound.”
»
»
»
» This is 24 hours before abrasion. See the white part of the circle. Could
» this be reepithelialization? I destroy my skin to the dermis and the day
» before I do I found that the skin was like scalp, instead of pigmented
» skin. Now I got a crust. Sorry for the quality of the pic.

wow it does look like the description.

39

Hey Guys! I wouldnt try this stuff at home…it wont work…they have a freaking lab at a very credential university…plus the main component or procudure wont be available to us commoners…they can make hair grow we cant…so i wouldnt expect anyone but them to do this right…unless u work with them and got insider info…lol

You’re simply wrong about that, buddy. The entire procedure is drugs we can already buy and dermabrasion we can have done. They’ve patented nothing more elaborate than that. Using already-existing drugs is a bedrock foundation of the project.

40

» As for the post-wounding period before starting topicals:
»
» Isn’t there a relatively consistent message in these patents that 3-5 days
» is the window they think is right (for live humans)?
»
» It seems like we’re overthinking this a bit. We’re using this stuff for a
» week and a half. IMO, starting the drugs 24 hours early or late doesn’t
» sound likely to be a huge deal-breaker.

Based on Cotsarelis’s Nature paper, Wnt upregulation when the wound occurs, and during the re-epithelialization period, does not effect wound closure time (which is good) but does increase the number of new hair follicles created via wounding (which is also good). This is based off the fact that some of the mice were genetically engineered to have Wnt cranked up all the time.

So, if someone was just using Wnt activators, they could start using them at the same time they made the wound, if they wanted to. There’s no need to worry about getting the timing just right.

But with EGF inhibitors, the same might not be true. EGF is involved in wound healing, so suppressing it during re-epithelialization could impair the healing process. This is probably something we don’t want. So, with the EGF inhibitors, the timing seems more important…you’d want to wait until the wound has re-epithelialized, and then start to inhibit EGF.