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Why with Transplants the Whole concept is Flawed


#1

I have come to the conclusion after 10 years of reading this board and the stories of the newbies the desperate, the docs pushing their clinics, with their techs etc, that HT is a dream, that fails to satisfy

The guys like me who have gotten their hair to stabilize for 10 yrs or more, we are in a position to say hmm why even get one should we or shouldnt we.
The guys who rush in to get a HT are IMO the WORST candidates for future happiness, because most have no clue how to stabilize their hair loss, thats why they need or think they need a transplant.

And many many of them are in their 20s and rapidly thinning and this is THE most vulnerable time mentally, I know I started rapidly thinning at age 21. I was DEVASTATED, and at that age the women do care. When mine started to thin it was not like nowadays, where you could shave your head. This was 1978 disco fever days, Bee Gees and Rock bands with flowing wonderful hair, HAIR WAS WHERE IT WAS AT, in the 70s, so losing it back then was even worse than now.

But seems to me the young guys are so eager, and the docs, even though they claim they wont accept young patients, seems to me a lot of the patients posted are pretty young. 

As the years pass and you read the postings of the guys who had transplants years ago and are unhappy, you think oh these must just be the bad docs, or these guys got it done years ago when they didnt know what they are doing. True in many cases but not all.

In IMO all the cases the problem is not that the docs cannot do a great job. There are tons of docs out there who do excellent work and can almost make the guy look like he has not lost that much hair, depending on his NW scale and when he comes in.

The problem as I have noticed after 10 yrs reading the board is not quality of the work. The problem is that HT in general cannot make the person happy long term, unless they completely stop the progression of their hair loss, and we know this almost never happens.

As the years pass no matter how great the doc was, if the crown was transplanted the new fallout forms a "halo effect" bald ring around the old transplant. This is a nightmare and MUST be fixed, or risk looking like a freak. If the hair was transplanted on top to the part line, if or when the partline recedes downward on the sides, this also will result in a freakish appearance, unless the person goes in for touchup after touchup after touchup.

So the person is looped into a lifetime of transplants basically. Of course this makes the docs happy. They do not like to tell you this when you go in for the original transplant. They say, if you stay on medication HOPEFULLY IDEALLY you wont need further work. , This is , of course a pipe dream.

So I would say that most of the patients on the board, even the happy ones. 5 to 10 yrs down the road, are pissed off, and ever increasingly frustrated and losing hope because the newly balding areas cannot be succesfully fixed because they used up all their donor hair already.

So they end up praying that body hair will save them or hair multiplication will save them.

I see Hair transplants in general, not so much as a sc..am, but just a dream that is sold to desperate guys. At first it looks great, then as the years pass it turns into a nightmare of touchups, more surgery, and more money they dont have. 

Then they come back to the board and say HEY LISTEN TO ME BELIEVE ME DONT DO IT JUST LEAVE YOUR HAIR THE WAY IT IS

Course the young guys think they are just disgruntled patients and dont listen to them

#2

There are many people who have halted their hair loss thanks to propecia

»


#3

» I have come to the conclusion after 10 years of reading this board and the
» stories of the newbies the desperate, the docs pushing their clinics, with
» their techs etc, that HT is a dream, that fails to satisfy
»
» The guys like me who have gotten their hair to stabilize for 10 yrs or
» more, we are in a position to say hmm why even get one should we or
» shouldnt we.
» The guys who rush in to get a HT are IMO the WORST candidates for future
» happiness, because most have no clue how to stabilize their hair loss,
» thats why they need or think they need a transplant.
»
» And many many of them are in their 20s and rapidly thinning and this is
» THE most vulnerable time mentally, I know I started rapidly thinning at age
» 21. I was DEVASTATED, and at that age the women do care. When mine started
» to thin it was not like nowadays, where you could shave your head. This was
» 1978 disco fever days, Bee Gees and Rock bands with flowing wonderful hair,
» HAIR WAS WHERE IT WAS AT, in the 70s, so losing it back then was even worse
» than now.
»
» But seems to me the young guys are so eager, and the docs, even though
» they claim they wont accept young patients, seems to me a lot of the
» patients posted are pretty young.
»
» As the years pass and you read the postings of the guys who had
» transplants years ago and are unhappy, you think oh these must just be the
» bad docs, or these guys got it done years ago when they didnt know what
» they are doing. True in many cases but not all.
»
» In IMO all the cases the problem is not that the docs cannot do a great
» job. There are tons of docs out there who do excellent work and can almost
» make the guy look like he has not lost that much hair, depending on his NW
» scale and when he comes in.
»
» The problem as I have noticed after 10 yrs reading the board is not
» quality of the work. The problem is that HT in general cannot make the
» person happy long term, unless they completely stop the progression of
» their hair loss, and we know this almost never happens.
»
»
» As the years pass no matter how great the doc was, if the crown was
» transplanted the new fallout forms a “halo effect” bald ring around the old
» transplant. This is a nightmare and MUST be fixed, or risk looking like a
» freak. If the hair was transplanted on top to the part line, if or when the
» partline recedes downward on the sides, this also will result in a freakish
» appearance, unless the person goes in for touchup after touchup after
» touchup.
»
» So the person is looped into a lifetime of transplants basically. Of
» course this makes the docs happy. They do not like to tell you this when
» you go in for the original transplant. They say, if you stay on medication
» HOPEFULLY IDEALLY you wont need further work. , This is , of course a pipe
» dream.
»
»
» So I would say that most of the patients on the board, even the happy
» ones. 5 to 10 yrs down the road, are pissed off, and ever increasingly
» frustrated and losing hope because the newly balding areas cannot be
» succesfully fixed because they used up all their donor hair already.
»
» So they end up praying that body hair will save them or hair
» multiplication will save them.
»
» I see Hair transplants in general, not so much as a sc…am, but just a
» dream that is sold to desperate guys. At first it looks great, then as the
» years pass it turns into a nightmare of touchups, more surgery, and more
» money they dont have.
»
» Then they come back to the board and say HEY LISTEN TO ME BELIEVE ME
» DONT DO IT JUST LEAVE YOUR HAIR THE WAY IT IS
»
» Course the young guys think they are just disgruntled patients and dont
» listen to them

I agree.

And will add to that the strong possibility of your donor area–and hair transplanted from the donor area–thinning with age from another and common form of hair loss: senescent allopecia, more commonly known as age-related hair loss.

As someone who had hair transplants almost 30 years ago, I can tell you the following:

The area of scalp affected by mpb has increased by about 3/4 inch all around the edge of the transplanted area.

And worse than that, my donor area has become more transparent with age, from the donor hair thinning from age-related hair loss.

And the hair that was transplanted to the top of my head, has also thinnned from age-related hair loss, just as the donor area has thinned.

This thinning seems a result of one or two factors, and maybe both:

First, actual hair loss: some follicles have stopped growing hair (or perhaps stay in he resting phase of the hair cycle longer).

Second, the shaft diameter of the hair that is growing is much finer than it used to be.

And I did not have to wait 30 years for this deterioration to be noticeable–I saw a gradual deterioration every year since the transplants.

The only reprieve I’ve had is to use rogaine and anti-DHT drugs: Propecia, Finasteride, and more recenlty Avodart.

But even with all those, the deterioration was only slowed a little.

Oh and by the way: I raised the spectre of senescent alopecia and further progression of mpb, and he denied either would be something to worry about, adding–and I quote: “You seem to have lost about all the hair you’re going to lose.”

OH–one more thing: the widening of the bald area from mpb, is getting dangerously close to the donor area in the very back of my horsehoe


#4

The problem with hair transplantation is that the majority fail to grasp the simple mathematics. You have to be able to predict somewhat where you hair loss will eventually end up. What is your available donor going to be and how much area can that possibly cover with a reasonable density. Understand what a reasonable density is and will you be happy with that. The hairline has to be placed high enough to make it all work with possibly not addressing the crown.

Even with all the information available today most do just the opposite. How many front loaded 5000 graft jobs do we have to see before people realize that only a clinic with no conscience and looking to fill their pockets would do this to someone? Most of the doctors are not very good in my opinion and they are artists only in their own minds. Basically all they can do is remove a hair and get it to grow on another part of your head and sometimes they can’t even get that right. How many cases do we need to see with pluggy hairlines and poor direction? They also have no problem trying something new on a patient regardless of how it pans out. Fancy machines, drills or super mega procedures it doesn’t matter, anything goes. Having a head full of hair that looks like crap is settling for hair that looks like crap when you don’t have to.

Then you have the patients that have access to all this information but still ignore it. The clinic has to be located fairly near for their conveinence. They have to have the hairline that is spaced 1” from their eyebrows. They feel comfortable picking a doctor from some clown’s coalition list. They are ready to make a move in a few months with only a few weeks of research. Patients that try to inform others are disgruntled and the list goes on. Gather it all up and you have a real pile of crap.


#5

senescent allopecia for those that do not know. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2695167/. And yes even those without mpb will get to some extent.


#6

» The problem with hair transplantation is that the majority fail to grasp
» the simple mathematics. You have to be able to predict somewhat where you
» hair loss will eventually end up. What is your available donor going to be
» and how much area can that possibly cover with a reasonable density.
» Understand what a reasonable density is and will you be happy with that.
» The hairline has to be placed high enough to make it all work with possibly
» not addressing the crown.
»
» Even with all the information available today most do just the opposite.
» How many front loaded 5000 graft jobs do we have to see before people
» realize that only a clinic with no conscience and looking to fill their
» pockets would do this to someone? Most of the doctors are not very good in
» my opinion and they are artists only in their own minds. Basically all they
» can do is remove a hair and get it to grow on another part of your head and
» sometimes they can’t even get that right. How many cases do we need to see
» with pluggy hairlines and poor direction? They also have no problem trying
» something new on a patient regardless of how it pans out. Fancy machines,
» drills or super mega procedures it doesn’t matter, anything goes. Having a
» head full of hair that looks like crap is settling for hair that looks like
» crap when you don’t have to.
»
» Then you have the patients that have access to all this information but
» still ignore it. The clinic has to be located fairly near for their
» conveinence. They have to have the hairline that is spaced 1” from their
» eyebrows. They feel comfortable picking a doctor from some clown’s
» coalition list. They are ready to make a move in a few months with only a
» few weeks of research. Patients that try to inform others are disgruntled
» and the list goes on. Gather it all up and you have a real pile of crap.

It is guys who get two weeks of research and go and choose a surgeon for something that will affect the rest of their lives that amaze me, oh and the ones who choose the cheapest ones

IMO even the “best” as far as quality of their work, are out to make a buck its that simple
Medicine is a business, not a public service, and if the results are not satisfactory , Oh well you signed the waiver


#7

» And will add to that the strong possibility of your donor area–and hair
» transplanted from the donor area–thinning with age from another and common
» form of hair loss: senescent allopecia, more commonly known as age-related
» hair loss.
»
» As someone who had hair transplants almost 30 years ago, I can tell you the
» following:
» The area of scalp affected by mpb has increased by about 3/4 inch all
» around the edge of the transplanted area.

Yes, almost nobody takes into account senescent (age related) hair loss which is different from male pattern hair loss. I see old guys with full heads of hair but if I look closely, their hair has full coverage but reduced density.

For balding old guys its sometimes worse. Their horse shoe thins out to the point where it even disappears.

This is what keeps me from having a hair transplant. The results may be good for a couple of years and then downhill it goes. But its also a tradeoff. Having hair when you are young may be more important for attracting a mate. So do you sell your soul to the devil and get a transplant only to suffer down the road or do you just accept the way you are from the start and not face the hassels of a transplant treadmill.


#8

Yes, I agree this is a business just like all of medicine and most fail to grasp this concept. It’s 100 times worse in general medicine because people are completely clueless. They sign up for these yearly exams and tests that often do more harm then good, because their doctor tells them that it is necessary. If the doctor tells them they need to be on a statin then that is what they do. If he needs to operate then that is what the do. They do zero thinking for themselves and are afraid to go against what a doctor tells them without crapping their pants.

This is all about lifelong conditioning.

I am also amazed by the choices of many prospective ht patients when they have access to all this information. The ones that can’t travel are always good for a laugh. Obviously they do not understand the seriousness of the procedure.

Ethical clinics turn away poor candidates, fully explain the numbers and what is possible. You have to have a good idea of where your baldness might be heading in order to make a sensible plan by looking at cues from your own family. You have to fully understand the limitations of a hair transplant. The biggest problem with too many seeking a hair transplant is they always end up finding someone who is willing to tell them what they want to hear.


#9

Thats why I think and posted this thread that 99 percent of HT patients will end up pissed off. The only ones that will be happy is the ones where their Hairloss stops, and how many achieve that?

I know I am one of the lucky ones my DHT blockers have thickened my sides and back tremendously, and the top front also. after 11 yrs still steady. I hope and pray it stays this way

» Yes, I agree this is a business just like all of medicine and most fail to
» grasp this concept. It’s 100 times worse in general medicine because people
» are completely clueless. They sign up for these yearly exams and tests that
» often do more harm then good, because their doctor tells them that it is
» necessary. If the doctor tells them they need to be on a statin then that
» is what they do. If he needs to operate then that is what the do. They do
» zero thinking for themselves and are afraid to go against what a doctor
» tells them without crapping their pants.
»
» This is all about lifelong conditioning.
»
» I am also amazed by the choices of many prospective ht patients when they
» have access to all this information. The ones that can’t travel are always
» good for a laugh. Obviously they do not understand the seriousness of the
» procedure.
»
» Ethical clinics turn away poor candidates, fully explain the numbers and
» what is possible. You have to have a good idea of where your baldness might
» be heading in order to make a sensible plan by looking at cues from your
» own family. You have to fully understand the limitations of a hair
» transplant. The biggest problem with too many seeking a hair transplant is
» they always end up finding someone who is willing to tell them what they
» want to hear.


#10

» Thats why I think and posted this thread that 99 percent of HT patients
» will end up pissed off. The only ones that will be happy is the ones where
» their Hairloss stops, and how many achieve that?

99%? I’d like to believe the figure is not that high.

“Coverage” is a word that I think should be used more often in this forum. Instead of the dense packing of grafts in one or two areas, it would seem that spreading grafts out would be more beneficial long term. But even more so, I’d like to believe that doctors will increasingly find ways to insure a higher number of grafts can produce hair.

As for maintaining the rest of one’s hair, well Hangin’, you have done this, per your posts, for ten years on natural supplements. So who is to say that others cannot do the same: maintain for years.


#11

» » Thats why I think and posted this thread that 99 percent of HT patients
» » will end up pissed off. The only ones that will be happy is the ones
» where
» » their Hairloss stops, and how many achieve that?
»
» 99%? I’d like to believe the figure is not that high.
»
» “Coverage” is a word that I think should be used more often in this forum.
» Instead of the dense packing of grafts in one or two areas, it would seem
» that spreading grafts out would be more beneficial long term. But even
» more so, I’d like to believe that doctors will increasingly find ways to
» insure a higher number of grafts can produce hair.
»
» As for maintaining the rest of one’s hair, well Hangin’, you have done
» this, per your posts, for ten years on natural supplements. So who is to
» say that others cannot do the same: maintain for years.

you know maintaining for 10 yrs is not achievable for the majority
who is to say? they say, they report that their hair is getting worse and worse despite being on meds or naturals


#12

» you know maintaining for 10 yrs is not achievable for the majority
» who is to say? they say, they report that their hair is getting worse and
» worse despite being on meds or naturals

Sure, it is achievable. All they have to do is get on your regimen, right :wink: .

If BHR offered you free pro bono work, are you telling me that you would say, “Uh, no thank you.”

C’mon, dude.


#13

» » you know maintaining for 10 yrs is not achievable for the majority
» » who is to say? they say, they report that their hair is getting worse
» and
» » worse despite being on meds or naturals
»
» Sure, it is achievable. All they have to do is get on your regimen, right
» :wink: .
»
» If BHR offered you free pro bono work, are you telling me that you would
» say, “Uh, no thank you.”
»
» C’mon, dude.

cost is not the issue
I have 100k in the bank, we own a beach resort and about a million dollars in property in the phils that is not part of the resort
\
I would not get a HT for free no, If I wanted one I assure you I would have one but at this point in time no , I would not get one


#14

I agree with everything you’ve said, BUT Matthew McConaughey’s hair transplant looks pretty good…


#15

» I agree with everything you’ve said, BUT Matthew McConaughey’s hair
» transplant looks pretty good…


#16

» I agree with everything you’ve said, BUT Matthew McConaughey’s hair
» transplant looks pretty good…

  1. yes it does
  2. he is young his NW scale was very low IMO he had lost only 10 percent of his hair
  3. wait 20 yrs see what happens

#17

» 3. wait 20 yrs see what happens

20 years of youthful joy is worth the trade off.

Its even more worth the tradeoff if you believe that the cure will be here within 0 to 20 yrs.

But is it really 20 yrs or more like 3 to 4 yrs.


#18

» » 3. wait 20 yrs see what happens
»
» 20 years of youthful joy is worth the trade off.
»
» Its even more worth the tradeoff if you believe that the cure will be here
» within 0 to 20 yrs.
»
» But is it really 20 yrs or more like 3 to 4 yrs.

I think we will finally go along very well, at least we speak the same language


#19

» » » 3. wait 20 yrs see what happens
» »
» » 20 years of youthful joy is worth the trade off.
» »
» » Its even more worth the tradeoff if you believe that the cure will be
» here
» » within 0 to 20 yrs.
» »
» » But is it really 20 yrs or more like 3 to 4 yrs.
»
» I think we will finally go along very well, at least we speak the same
» language

get used to hearing 3 to 4 yrs
15 yrs ago they were saying that

20 yrs ago they were saying that

20 yrs from now they will still be saying that


#20

» » » » 3. wait 20 yrs see what happens
» » »
» » » 20 years of youthful joy is worth the trade off.
» » »
» » » Its even more worth the tradeoff if you believe that the cure will be
» » here
» » » within 0 to 20 yrs.
» » »
» » » But is it really 20 yrs or more like 3 to 4 yrs.
» »
» » I think we will finally go along very well, at least we speak the same
» » language
»
» get used to hearing 3 to 4 yrs
» 15 yrs ago they were saying that
»
» 20 yrs ago they were saying that
»
» 20 yrs from now they will still be saying that

Agreed Whole Heartedly!!