Home | News | Find a Doctor | Ask a Question | Free

Vellus hairs and Donora area hairs equal when transplanted to mice


#1

Note: Performing your original search, vellus hairs mice alopecia, in PubMed will retrieve 6 citations.

Display SummaryBriefAbstractAbstractPlusCitationMEDLINEXMLUI ListLinkOutASN.1Related ArticlesCited in BooksCancerChrom LinksDomain Links3D Domain LinksGEO DataSet LinksGene LinksGene (OMIM) LinksGene (GeneRIF) LinksGenome LinksProject LinksGENSAT LinksGEO Profile LinksHomoloGene LinksCoreNucleotide LinksCoreNucleotide (RefSeq) LinksEST LinksEST (RefSeq) LinksGSS LinksGSS (RefSeq) LinksNucleotide LinksNucleotide (RefSeq) LinksOMIA LinksOMIM (calculated) LinksOMIM (cited) LinksBioAssay LinksCompound LinksCompound (MeSH Keyword)Compound (Publisher) LinksSubstance LinksSubstance (MeSH Keyword)Substance (Publisher) LinksPMC LinksCited in PMCPopSet LinksProbe LinksProtein LinksProtein (RefSeq) LinksProtein (Weighted) LinksProtein Cluster LinksCited ArticlesSNP LinksStructure LinksTaxonomy via GenBankUniGene LinksUniSTS Links Show 5102050100200500Sort ByPub DateFirst AuthorLast AuthorJournalSend toTextFilePrinterClipboardE-mailOrderAll: 1 Review: 0 Click to change filter selection through MyNCBI.

1: J Am Acad Dermatol. 2003 May;48(5):752-9. Links
Transplants from balding and hairy androgenetic alopecia scalp regrow hair comparably well on immunodeficient mice.Krajcik RA, Vogelman JH, Malloy VL, Orentreich N.
Orentreich Foundation for the Advancement of Science Inc, Cold Spring-on-Hudson, New York 10516, USA. ofas1@juno.com

Human hair follicles were grafted onto 2 strains of immunodeficient mice to compare the regeneration potential of vellus (miniaturized, balding) and terminal (hairy, nonbalding) follicles from males and a female exhibiting pattern baldness. Each mouse had transplants of both types of follicles from a single donor for direct comparison. Grafted follicles from 2 male donors resulted in nonsignificant differences in mean length (52 mm vs 54 mm) and mean diameter (99 microm vs 93 microm) at 22 weeks for hairs originating from balding and hairy scalp, respectively, corresponding to 400% versus 62% of the mean pretransplantation diameters. Follicles from the female donor transplanted to several mice also resulted in nonsignificant differences in length (43 mm vs 37 mm) for hairs from balding and hairy scalp, respectively, during a period of 22 weeks. The mean diameter of the originally vellus hairs increased 3-fold, whereas the terminal hairs plateaued at approximately 50% of pretransplantation diameter, resulting in a final balding hair volume double that of the nonbalding hairs. This report shows that miniaturized hair follicles of pattern alopecia can quickly regenerate once removed from the human scalp and can grow as well as or better than terminal follicles from the same individual.

PMID: 12734505 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

That is <> humiliating. We move our vellus hairs to mice, and they can regrow…dammit. Dutasteride wont get them back though.


#2

When one really considers the fact that vellus hairs from male pattern bald me can grow as well or even better than donor area hair when moved to an immuno deficient mouse’s back…it makes me want to chuck all studies in mice.

Lets see…castrates dont lose anymore hair, so we know that male hormone is causing the hair loss.

But castrates only grow back a little of what was recently lost----about like guys on dutasteride or finasteride.

So what then is keeping our miniaturized hairs small on our own heads. Why wont they grow back if you are on finasteride and shampoo with nizoral? Does the immune system keep attacking them when they are small…there has got to be a reason for them not- re-enlarging like they do on these mice.

Anybody got any ideas?


#3

» When one really considers the fact that vellus hairs from male pattern bald
» me can grow as well or even better than donor area hair when moved to an
» immuno deficient mouse’s back…it makes me want to chuck
» all studies in mice.
»
»
» Lets see…castrates dont lose anymore hair, so we know that
» male hormone is causing the hair loss.
»
» But castrates only grow back a little of what was recently lost----about
» like guys on dutasteride or finasteride.
»
»
» So what then is keeping our miniaturized hairs small on our own heads. Why
» wont they grow back if you are on finasteride and shampoo with nizoral?
» Does the immune system keep attacking them when they are
» small…there has got to be a reason for them not- re-enlarging
» like they do on these mice.
»
»
» Anybody got any ideas?

for one thing i do not recommend niz shampoo, it has hydrochloric acid in it, as well as the chemical for embalming fluid, neither of which are in the nizoral cream. the shampoo is way too harsh, and only stays on your head for about a minute,
I had way more success with the cream

if you can find a dht 5 ar inhibitor that works on you, such as fin, it helps a lot but for some reason it stops working after a few years, perhaps the body develops an immunity to it

I also think that it depends on if you are thinning or bald in that area, also for how long you have been thinning, Thinnng hair has , in my opinion about 1000 times more chance of coming back to life than bald areas. I think that hair in slick bald areas is next to impossible to revive

I liken it, to leaving for vacation you come back your yard is brown from lack of water, you can water the grass and it comes back to life…thats thinning hair

If you leave for 2 yrs you come back there is dirt there instead of grass, good luck watering it and having it come back to life. the grass is dead. To me this is the same with slick bald scalp

nothing i have ever tried has gotten my slick bald spot in the crown back, whereas my DHT blockers have totally reversed my thinning hair to where it is semi normal no longer see through, and about 4 times as thick as it was before i started all my dht blockers

if you are not on a super hair vitamin you should try it, makes a huge difference


#4

»
» for one thing i do not recommend niz shampoo, it has hydrochloric acid in
» it, as well as the chemical for embalming fluid, neither of which are in
» the nizoral cream. the shampoo is way too harsh, and only stays on your
» head for about a minute,
» I had way more success with the cream

THERE ARE THREE INDEPENDENT STUDIES SHOWING NIZORAL SHAMPOO INCREASES HAIR COUNT, HAIR SIZE IN CIRCUMFERENCE, AND HAIR WEIGHT WHILE REDUCING SEBUM SECRETIONS, AND EVEN SEBACEOUS GLAND SIZE (19.4%) AT SIX MONTHS–DESPITE ANYTHING ELSE THAT MIGHT BE IN THE SHAMPOO»

» if you can find a dht 5 ar inhibitor that works on you, such as fin, it
» helps a lot but for some reason it stops working after a few years,
» perhaps the body develops an immunity to it
FINASTERIDE NEVER “STOPS WORKING”, IT CHEMICALLY BINDS WITH THE FIVE ALPHA REDUCTASE TYPE TWO ENZYMES IN THE VARIOUS LOCATIONS IN THE BODY THAT IT CAN BE FOUND—BUT SINCE DHT IS ‘BOUND’ BY GLOBULIN IN THE BLOOD STREAM ABOUT 98% OF THE TIME, THE ALPHA FIVE IN QUESTION IS THE TYPE 2 ENZYME THAT IS LOCATED IN THE INNERMOST PORTION OF THE HAIR FOLLICLE’S OUTER ROOT SHEATH THAT ALMOST ASSUREDLY DOES MOST OF THE DAMAGE IN ANDROGENIC ALOPECIA. FINASTERIDE INHIBITS ROUGHLY 85% OF TYPE TWO ALPHA FIVE REDUCTASE ACTIVITY, AND THEREFORE DOESN’T INHIBIT ALL DHT FROM BEING MADE…ONE STILL HAS ABOUT 15% OF IT. DR. MARTY SAWAYA NOTED AN ANDROGEN RECEPTOR UPREGULATION IN USERS OF FINASTERDIE, BUT ANY KIND OF ANTI-ANDROGEN MIGHT PRODUCE THIS EFFECT. HER RESULTS HAVE, HOWEVER, NEVER BEEN DUPLICATED

»
» I also think that it depends on if you are thinning or bald in that area,
» also for how long you have been thinning, Thinnng hair has , in my opinion
» about 1000 times more chance of coming back to life than bald areas. I
» think that hair in slick bald areas is next to impossible to revive
»
» I liken it, to leaving for vacation you come back your yard is brown from
» lack of water, you can water the grass and it comes back to
» life…thats thinning hair
»
» If you leave for 2 yrs you come back there is dirt there instead of grass,
» good luck watering it and having it come back to life. the grass is dead.
» To me this is the same with slick bald scalp
»
» nothing i have ever tried has gotten my slick bald spot in the crown back,
» whereas my DHT blockers have totally reversed my thinning hair to where it
» is semi normal no longer see through, and about 4 times as thick as it was
» before i started all my dht blockers

IF YOU LOOK CLOSE AT YOUR ‘SLICK’ BALD AREA, VERY VERY CLOSE, YOU WILL NOTE THAT IT WILL BE COVERED IN VELLUS HAIRS. GUESS WHAT??? THESE USED TO BE YOUR FULL-SIZED FOLLICES YEARS AGO. THEY DONT DIE. THEY CAN BE ‘SCARRED UP’ AND SURROUNDED IN COLLAGEN—BUT THIS STUDY SHOWS THAT IF THEY ARE TRANSPLANTED TO IMMUNODEFICIENT MICE THAT THEY CAN RE-ENLARGE JUST LIKE OTHER HAIRS TRANSPLANTED FROM THE DONOR AREA.

Its been pointed out in research that balding hairs lose a molecule…CD200 that tells the immune system not to attack a particular organ. This might be what causes the immune system to never stop suppressing balding hairs, for once this molecule is lost…it keeps inflaming the follicle at the uppper portion near the infidulum, and possibly keeping the arrector pilli muscle from being able to supply the necessary stem cells to the papilla to initiate a new anagen phase--------keeping it small forever.

The question is what prostaglandin, peptide, cytokine, whatever keeps telling the body not to put CD200 back at the follicle site. Why doesnt the follicle become immuno-priveleged again after one gets on dutasteride (stops 98% of type two alpha five and 52% of type one). There has got to be some other substance stopping the hairs from re-enlarging----or castrates would grow back ALL their hair. Anybody have any EDUCATED guesses or ideas
»
» if you are not on a super hair vitamin you should try it, makes a huge
» difference---- its probably pretty good. It has lysine, arginine, the same amino acids that are in the triamino polypeptide formula of tricomin and a few other hair-healthy nutrients like biotin, msm, silica, manganese…but I take a very good multivatimin packet that has alot of this stuff in it plus fish oil and saw palmetto are also in my vitamin. I figure its pretty “decent” in the healthy hair department. Ive been stuck at the same place for about five years…no more hair or less.


#5

i dont care what the studies say, i go by personal results, you do not need TO TYPE IN CAPS, that is considered RUDE

if you dont believe me, fine use the niz shampoo 10 times a day, Im saying it is too harsh

plenty of guys say it is too harsh, and the cream stays on your head for hours, as opposed to about a minute with the shampoo…u think putting hydrochloric acid is ok for your hair, then go for it


#6

So because vellus hair grows into mature thick hair in these creatures on it’s own and because follica treatment has been studied on the same creatures and no humans so far, it is very possible that in humans the treatment will grow only vellus hair which will never grow into mature hair because we are humans and not immunosuppressed mice which can do that.

Depressing isn’t it?


#7

» Note: Performing your original search, vellus hairs mice alopecia, in
» PubMed will retrieve 6 citations.
»
»
»
»
» Display SummaryBriefAbstractAbstractPlusCitationMEDLINEXMLUI
» ListLinkOutASN.1Related ArticlesCited in BooksCancerChrom LinksDomain
» Links3D Domain LinksGEO DataSet LinksGene LinksGene (OMIM) LinksGene
» (GeneRIF) LinksGenome LinksProject LinksGENSAT LinksGEO Profile
» LinksHomoloGene LinksCoreNucleotide LinksCoreNucleotide (RefSeq) LinksEST
» LinksEST (RefSeq) LinksGSS LinksGSS (RefSeq) LinksNucleotide
» LinksNucleotide (RefSeq) LinksOMIA LinksOMIM (calculated) LinksOMIM
» (cited) LinksBioAssay LinksCompound LinksCompound (MeSH Keyword)Compound
» (Publisher) LinksSubstance LinksSubstance (MeSH Keyword)Substance
» (Publisher) LinksPMC LinksCited in PMCPopSet LinksProbe LinksProtein
» LinksProtein (RefSeq) LinksProtein (Weighted) LinksProtein Cluster
» LinksCited ArticlesSNP LinksStructure LinksTaxonomy via GenBankUniGene
» LinksUniSTS Links Show 5102050100200500Sort ByPub DateFirst AuthorLast
» AuthorJournalSend toTextFilePrinterClipboardE-mailOrderAll: 1 Review: 0
» Click to change filter selection through MyNCBI.
»
»
» 1: J Am Acad Dermatol. 2003 May;48(5):752-9. Links
» Transplants from balding and hairy androgenetic alopecia scalp regrow hair
» comparably well on immunodeficient mice.Krajcik RA, Vogelman JH, Malloy VL,
» Orentreich N.
» Orentreich Foundation for the Advancement of Science Inc, Cold
» Spring-on-Hudson, New York 10516, USA. ofas1@juno.com
»
» Human hair follicles were grafted onto 2 strains of immunodeficient mice
» to compare the regeneration potential of vellus (miniaturized, balding)
» and terminal (hairy, nonbalding) follicles from males and a female
» exhibiting pattern baldness. Each mouse had transplants of both types of
» follicles from a single donor for direct comparison. Grafted follicles
» from 2 male donors resulted in nonsignificant differences in mean length
» (52 mm vs 54 mm) and mean diameter (99 microm vs 93 microm) at 22 weeks
» for hairs originating from balding and hairy scalp, respectively,
» corresponding to 400% versus 62% of the mean pretransplantation diameters.
» Follicles from the female donor transplanted to several mice also resulted
» in nonsignificant differences in length (43 mm vs 37 mm) for hairs from
» balding and hairy scalp, respectively, during a period of 22 weeks. The
» mean diameter of the originally vellus hairs increased 3-fold, whereas the
» terminal hairs plateaued at approximately 50% of pretransplantation
» diameter, resulting in a final balding hair volume double that of the
» nonbalding hairs. This report shows that miniaturized hair follicles of
» pattern alopecia can quickly regenerate once removed from the human scalp
» and can grow as well as or better than terminal follicles from the same
» individual.
»
» PMID: 12734505 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
»
»
»
»
» That is <> humiliating. We move our vellus hairs to
» mice, and they can regrow…dammit. Dutasteride wont
» get them back though.

Maybe we are approaching this thing all wrong. All we have to do is get injections of rat DNA and we can grow virtually anything on our mellons.:smiley:


#8

» So because vellus hair grows into mature thick hair in these creatures on
» it’s own and because folica treatment has been studied on the same
» creatures and no humans so far, it is very possible that in humans the
» treatment will grow only vellus hair which will never grow into mature
» hair because we are humans and not immunosuppressed mice which can do
» that.
»
» Depressing isn’t it?

I really think, however, Folica is on to something in this case. There has already been documented cases of people getting severe wounds and growing hair in the wounded area. Somehow it inhibits stem cells to migrate in that area. I’m seriously considering being a guinea pig and let Cotsarelis dermabrade the back of my head. WTF


#9

Authors: Pierard-Franchimont C. De Doncker P. Cauwenbergh G. Pierard GE.
Institution: Department of Dermatopathology, University of Liege, Belgium.
Title: Ketoconazole shampoo: effect of long-term use in androgenic alopecia.
Source: Dermatology. 196(4):474-7, 1998.

Abstract

BACKGROUND: The pathogenesis of androgenic alopecia is not fully understood. A microbial-driven inflammatory reaction abutting on the hair follicles might participate in the hair status anomaly.

OBJECTIVE: The aim of our study was to determine if ketoconazole (KCZ) which is active against the scalp microflora and shows some intrinsic anti-inflammatory activity might improve alopecia.

METHOD: The effect of 2% KCZ shampoo was compared to that of an unmedicated shampoo used in combination with or without 2% minoxidil therapy.

RESULTS: Hair density and size and proportion of anagen follicles were improved almost similarly by both KCZ and minoxidil regimens. The sebum casual level appeared to be decreased by KCZ.

CONCLUSION: Comparative data suggest that there may be a significant action of KCZ upon the course of androgenic alopecia and that Malassezia spp. may play a role in the inflammatory reaction. The clinical significance of the results awaits further controlled study in a larger group of subjects.

Via Wikipedia:

[edit] Hair loss benefits
Nizoral shampoo has shown to be beneficial in men suffering from androgenic alopecia. One 1998 study showed that Nizoral 2% worked just as well as minoxidil 2% (brand name Rogaine) in men with androgenic alopecia. Both medicines increased hair thickness and increased the number of anagen-phase hair follicles on the scalp. Researchers were guarded about the meaning of these results, saying that more rigorous studies on larger groups of men should be done to confirm the findings, both to evaluate the ideal dosage and formulation, and to assess the desirability of routine treatment in this condition.[12]

Results so far indicate that both the 1% and 2% dosages have positive hair loss benefits; however the more potent 2% formulation could have better results. Optimal usage is speculated at every third day, leaving the shampoo on the scalp for 3-5 minutes before rinsing. It has been stated that medications capable of maintaining the existing hair population should be regarded as effective treatments for androgenic alopecia. The present data suggests that ketoconazole should enter this group of drugs.[13]


#10

Second study:

Nizoral 1% Study Shows Benefits for Androgenetic Alopecia

March 04, 2001 - American Academy of Dermatology Meeting - Washington DC - Scientists working for McNeil, makers of Nizoral anti-dandruff shampoo, presented the findings of a study done on 1% Nizoral shampoo which has good news for hair loss sufferers. It has long been known that 2% prescription Nizoral has beneficial effects on Androgenic Alopecia (MPB). It however has been unclear whether the same benefits can be obtained by using the non-prescription 1% version.
In the study presented (see below), one hundred male volunteers with mild to moderate dandruff and somewhat oily scalp, were using, in a double-blind fashion, either a 1% Nizoral shampoo or a 1% zinc pyrithione shampoo, 2-3 times a week for 6 months.

Analysis of the different parameters set up in the study shows that the hair diameter gradually increased with Nizoral use (+8.46%) over a 6 month period, whereas the diameter showed a trend to decrease with zinc pyrithione use over the same period (-2.28%). The sebum excretion rate was reduced with Nizoral (-6.54%) while it increased with zinc pyrithione (+8.2%) over the same period of time. The number of hair shed over a 24-hour period was reduced by 16.46% with Nizoral and 6.02% with zinc pyrithione after 6 months. Finally, the percentage hairs in anagen phase increased by 6.4% and 8.4% respectively during the study time.

The results are similar to a previous study done on 2% prescription strength Nizoral where it was shown that use of 2% Nizoral yielded a 7% average increase in hair shaft diameter similar to what was achieved by the control group using 2% Minoxidil and a non-medicated shampoo.

So for any hair loss sufferer, this research clearly indicates that using 1% or 2% Nizoral 2-3 times per week, will have positive effects on hair growth as well as controlling dandruff. It is still unclear at this time whether it’s the anti-fungal properties or the anti-androgenic properties of Ketokonazole (active ingredient in Nizoral) thats responsible for the hair thickening effects, however because of the decrease in sebum rates as well, it is the authors opinion that the results are due to the anti-androgenic properties of Ketokonazole.

Nizoral 1% Study
The effects of chronic use of 1% ketoconazole or a 1% zinc pyrithione shampoo on the general health of hair and scalp.

G. Piérard 1and G. Cauwenbergh2

  1. Dept Dermatopathology, University of Liège, Belgium; 2. Skin research Center, Johnson &Johnson , Skillman, N.J., USA

Hundred male volunteers with mild to moderate dandruff and somewhat oily scalp, have used, in a double-blind fashion, a 1% ketoconazole shampoo or a 1% zinc pyrithione shampoo. The test shampoos were applied 2 to 3 times weekly for a total period of 6 months. Several parameters that affect the general health of hair and scalp were assessed at start, and after 1, 3 and 6 months. These parameters included the percent of hairs in anagen phase, the diameter of the hairs, sebum excretion rate at the hairline, and the number of hairs shed in the 24-hour period prior to each assessment. At the end of the study, the participants were asked to complete a questionnaire regarding the cosmetic acceptability of the test shampoos.

Forty-four ketoconazole users and forty-three zinc pyrithione users completed the 6 month study period. Analysis of the different parameters shows that the hair diameter gradually increases with chronic ketoconazole use (+8.46%) over a 6 month period, whereas the diameter shows a trend to decrease with zinc pyrithione use over the same period (-2.28%). The sebum excretion rate is reduced with ketoconazole (-6.54%) while it increases with zinc pyrithione (+8.2%) over the same period of time. The number of hair shed over a 24-hour period is reduced by 16.46% with ketoconazole and 6.02% with zinc pyrithione after 6 months. Finally, the percentage hairs in anagen phase increased by 6.4% and 8.4% respectively during the study time. Except for the percentage of hairs in anagen, which showed no difference between the two groups, all other parameters were significantly different in favor of the ketoconazole shampoo.

Both shampoos have been shown to be good anti-dandruff ingredients. Assessment of parameters than can affect the health of hair and scalp, suggests that both ingredients show distinct differences in the way they affect the scalp; indicating that ketoconazole increases hair diameter and reduces scalp oil, whereas zinc pyrithione seems to yield opposite effects. This suggests that, besides their effect on the lipophilic yeast Malassezia spp, ketoconazole and zinc pyrithione act though quite different mechanisms. An overall analysis of hair diameter changes as a function of changes in sebum excretion rate suggests that a reduction in scalp oiliness seems to result in an increased hair diameter. This suggests that, in people with oily hair, regular use of ketoconazole shampoo may result in overall hair fullness.

THIRD STUDY

Home About Products & Services Contact Us

International Journal of Cosmetic Science
Current Issue Archive

October 2002, 24:5 > Nudging hair shedding by antidandruff… < Previous | Next >
ARTICLE LINKS:
Fulltext | PDF (197 K)
Nudging hair shedding by antidandruff shampoos. A comparison of 1% ketoconazole, 1% piroctone olamine and 1% zinc pyrithione formulations.

Original Articles

International Journal of Cosmetic Science. 24(5):249-256, October 2002.
Pierard-Franchimont, C.; Goffin, V.; Henry, F.; Uhoda, I.; Braham, C.; Pierard, G. E.
Abstract:
Synopsis: Hair shedding and hair thinning have been reported to be affected by dandruff and seborrhoeic dermatitis. The present study was conducted in 150 men presenting with telogen effluvium related to androgenic alopecia associated with dandruff. They were randomly allocated to three groups receiving each one of the three shampoos in the market containing either 1% ketoconazole (KTZ), 1% piroctone olamine (PTO) or 1% zinc pyrithione (ZPT). Shampoos had to be used 2-3 times a week for 6 months. Hair shedding during shampoo was evaluated semiquantitatively. Hair density on the vertex was evaluated on photographs using a Dermaphot. Trichograms were used for determining the anagen hair percentage and the mean proximal hair shaft diameter using computerized image analysis. The sebum excretion rate (SER, [mu]g cm-2 h-1) was also measured using a Sebumeter®.

The three treatments cleared pruritus and dandruff rapidly. At end point, hair density was unchanged, although hair shedding was decreased (KTZ: -17.3%, PTO: -16.5%, ZPT: -10.1%) and the anagen hair percentage was increased (KTZ: 4.9%, PTO: 7.9%, ZPT: 6.8%). The effect on the mean hair shaft diameter was contrasted between the three groups of volunteers (KTZ: 5.4%, PTO: 7.7%, ZPT: -2.2%). In conclusion, telogen effluvium was controlled by KTZ, PTO and ZPT shampoos at 1% concentration. In addition, KTZ and PTO increased the mean hair shaft thickness while discretely decreasing the sebum output at the skin surface.

© 2002 Blackwell Science Ltd.


#11

i dont care what the studies say, i go by personal results Then you reject science, you do not need TO TYPE IN CAPS, that is considered RUDE Hangininthere calling ANYONE rude? That will prompt some smirksif you dont believe me, fine use the niz shampoo 10 times a day, Im saying it is too harsh The studies found Nizoral to be effective with twice a week usage up to four times a week usage.

plenty of guys say it is too harsh, and the cream stays on your head for hours, as opposed to about a minute with the shampoo…u think putting hydrochloric acid is ok for your hair, then go for it Youre scalp is never more hydrated or pores more open that when you shampoo, dandruff shampoos work proving medication can enter the wet, warm, moist dermis perfectly fine. Nizoral’s ketoconazole has been shown to stay in the dermis at theraputic concentration for 72 hours

But if you go by people’s testimonials on regrowing hair, you will find these forums full of weird ideas and diets promising tons of new hair growth…none of them true


#12

This is ALSO why Im worried about Follica.

Immuno deficient mice can see our MPB vellus hairs regenerate…so human skin being able to grow human hair on the mice when wounded might also be something that can’t be replicated in humans.

We wont know until they have tried it, but its something to be concened about. The only thing I can think of that might induce hair growth for Follica if their standard protocol fails is to have the man be on cyclosporin for a few days before the wounding until the hair germs are detected and actively growing several days later…perhaps about ten days of the stuff. If that didn’t work, I doubt anything would.

It will be either HM or Follica in the near term…I hoenstly cant think of anything else other than figuring out exactly what is going on that keeps miniaturized hairs small when one is on potent “enough” antiandrogens. If you are on both finasteride and apply fluridil (or revivogen), that anti-androgenic potency on the scalp should see your hairs re-enlarge after several months, but it doesn’t happen. There has to be something else keeping them small, but I dont know if we can ever find it and counteract it.


#13

» So what then is keeping our miniaturized hairs small on our own heads.

I have the full-text version of this study, which I will try to dig up today. The authors did spend time speculating on this very question. They felt it wasn’t due to any differences in androgen levels between male and female mice and humans. They basically concluded that some unidentified factor is at play here.

BTW, I think the reason they chose immunodefienct mice is so that the grafts wouldn’t be rejected. But I’ll double-check this.


#14

» So because vellus hair grows into mature thick hair in these creatures on
» it’s own and because follica treatment has been studied on the same
» creatures and no humans so far, it is very possible that in humans the
» treatment will grow only vellus hair which will never grow into mature
» hair because we are humans and not immunosuppressed mice which can do
» that.

It’s not quite the same thing. The one study showed that pre-existing balding follicles could grow and enlarge again, similar to control hairs that were also transplanted onto these mice. If Follica is creating new hair follicles, and if these new follicles are not immediately sucseptible to AGA, I think they’ll grow fine on the human scalp, just like the hair at the back and sides.

I think the real question here is what phenotype the newly created follicles take on. They can start ‘balding’ immediately or soon afterward (similar to follicles already on the way out due to AGA), they could ‘bald’ over a long period of time (similar to our existing follicles, which are good for at least 15-20 years after they are created in utero), or they never bald (similar to hair at the back and sides of the head.)


#15

Maybe the role of autoimmune reaction in aga is understimate.

What about new topical drugs like tacrolimus ?
I can’t find one study about an hair growth connection ,so i think
no effect …
Could someone give info ?

» Note: Performing your original search, vellus hairs mice alopecia, in
» PubMed will retrieve 6 citations.
»
» 1: J Am Acad Dermatol. 2003 May;48(5):752-9. Links
» Transplants from balding and hairy androgenetic alopecia scalp regrow hair
» comparably well on immunodeficient mice.Krajcik RA, Vogelman JH, Malloy VL,
» Orentreich N.
» Orentreich Foundation for the Advancement of Science Inc, Cold
» Spring-on-Hudson, New York 10516, USA. ofas1@juno.com
»
» Human hair follicles were grafted onto 2 strains of immunodeficient mice
» to compare the regeneration potential of vellus (miniaturized, balding)
» and terminal (hairy, nonbalding) follicles from males and a female
» exhibiting pattern baldness. Each mouse had transplants of both types of
» follicles from a single donor for direct comparison. Grafted follicles
» from 2 male donors resulted in nonsignificant differences in mean length
» (52 mm vs 54 mm) and mean diameter (99 microm vs 93 microm) at 22 weeks
» for hairs originating from balding and hairy scalp, respectively,
» corresponding to 400% versus 62% of the mean pretransplantation diameters.
» Follicles from the female donor transplanted to several mice also resulted
» in nonsignificant differences in length (43 mm vs 37 mm) for hairs from
» balding and hairy scalp, respectively, during a period of 22 weeks. The
» mean diameter of the originally vellus hairs increased 3-fold, whereas the
» terminal hairs plateaued at approximately 50% of pretransplantation
» diameter, resulting in a final balding hair volume double that of the
» nonbalding hairs. This report shows that miniaturized hair follicles of
» pattern alopecia can quickly regenerate once removed from the human scalp
» and can grow as well as or better than terminal follicles from the same
» individual.
»
» PMID: 12734505 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
»
»
»
»
» That is <> humiliating. We move our vellus hairs to
» mice, and they can regrow…dammit. Dutasteride wont
» get them back though.


#16

Title
Potentializing effect of ketoconazole on cyclosporin A-induced inhibition of keratinocyte DNA synthesis.
Author
Amsellem C; Haftek M; Thivolet J; De Doncker P; Schmitt D
Address
INSERM U 346 affiliée CNRS, Department of Dermatology, E. Herriot Hospital, Lyon, France.
Source
Acta Derm Venereol, 74: 4, 1994 Jul, 257-9
Abstract
Keratinocyte growth in vitro and DNA synthesis by epidermal cells in vivo are inhibited by therapeutic doses of cyclosporin A (CsA). This effect may be potentialized by topical treatment with ketoconazole, since this drug has been shown to inhibit CsA metabolism. Normal human skin grafts on nude mice receiving intraperitoneal injections of CsA were treated with ketoconazole cream or its placebo for 3 weeks. The keratinocyte DNA synthesis rate was evaluated through the rates of bromodeoxyuridine (BrdU) incorporation, and the trough blood levels of CsA were checked at the end of the experiment. Counting of the BrdU-labelled nuclei in human tissue sections confirmed a dose-dependent inhibition of BrdU incorporation by keratinocytes exposed to CsA. This CsA-induced inhibition was further increased in the animals treated with ketoconazole cream. This effect was best seen in the groups treated with the low-to-medium doses of CsA (12.5 and 25 mg/kg/day). However, the simultaneous increase in the circulating CsA levels was also observed in these animals. Based on our results, we speculate that the potentializing effect of ketoconazole on CsA-induced inhibition of keratinocyte DNA synthesis is systemic rather than local.
Language of Publication
English
Unique Identifier
95066569


#17

Your implication that the shampoo works better because of absorbing into a wet scalp, although on its face it may appear valid, does not hold true, since the study subjects all applied the cream immediately after shampooing, thus onto a WET SCALP,

http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/forum_entry-id-6113-page-4-category-3-order-last_answer.html

Ketoconazole (KCZ), an imidazole anti-fungal agent, is known to be effective for the treatment of seborrheic dermatitis and dandruff. In addition, 2% KCZ shampoo was found to improve hair density and the size and proportion of anagen follicles in androgenetic alopecia (AGA) [1] and, in combination with finasteride, to have an additive effect for AGA [2]. Recently, it has been reported that topical application of KCZ stimulates hair growth in C3H/HeN mice [3]. However, whether topical KCZ is effective enough to improve the clinical appearance of AGA is not yet clear. We therefore carried out an open trial of topical 2% KCZ lotion (Nizoral®) in combination with shampoos. Furthermore, to identify the mechanism, which can explain the clinical effect of KCZ on AGA, we performed transient transfection assays using CV-1 cells transfected with androgen receptors (AR).

The six Japanese males from 23 to 51 years old were enrolled in this study with their written informed consent. They presented with grade II vertex to IVa AGA according to the Hamilton–Norwood classification [4]. The subjects applied topical 2% KCZ lotion (Nizoral®) almost every day during or immediately after hair washing with their own unmedicated shampoos. When they revisited our clinic every several months, clinical pictures were obtained to determine the efficacy of the treatment. Two of the men, one 23 years old with grade II vertex and the other 25 years old with Va AGA, showed remarkable hair regrowth after 6 and 10 months, respectively (Fig. 1). The 23-year-old male stopped using KCZ and 3 months later hair loss recurrence on the vertex was noted (Fig. 1c). When he started using KCZ again during shampooing, hairs on the vertex grew again after 3 months (Fig. 1d). These findings constitute evidence of the clinical efficacy of KCZ for AGA. A 41-year-old male showed a slight increase in vertex hair growth after 1 year. Other three of the men, 31, 38 and 51 years old did not show significant improvement. These findings suggest that topical KCZ with shampoo can be effective for some males with AGA.

Fig. 1. A 23-year-old Japanese man who used 2% ketoconazole (KCZ) lotion during shampooing everyday. Six months later, hair regrowth was attained (b) in comparison with the pre-treatment condition (a). Suspension of use for 3 months, however, caused recurrent hair loss ©. Renewed use of KCZ induced renewed growth of vertex hair (d). A 25-year-old Japanese man with AGA (e) applied 2% KCZ lotion immediately after shampooing everyday. Ten months later, hair regrowth was apparent (f).

To identify the mechanism, which can explain the effect of KCZ on AGA, we performed transient transfection assays using an androgen-responsive synthetic promoter for CV-1 cells transfected with AR. At 50–70% confluency in a 24-well plate, the CV-1 cells, maintained in Dulbecco’s modified Eagle’s medium (DMEM) supplemented with 10% fetal bovine serum, were transfected with the transfection reagent Fugene-6 (Roche Diagnostics Corp., Indianapolis, IN, USA) according to the manufacturer’s instructions. For luciferase assays, we transfected 0.1μg of the reporter plasmid, pGL2-GRE3-bG-luc [5], 12.5ng of pCI-neo-BamX-AR(Gly23) [5] and 0.2μg of the pRL-CMV vector, the Renilla luciferase control reporter vector driven by the CMV immediate-early enhancer/promoter, as the internal controls. At 24h after transfection, we added fresh DMEM supplemented with 10% charcoal-treated fetal bovine serum with methyltrienolone (R1881, a stable synthetic androgen) or ethanol as a mock vehicle. The cells were also treated with KCZ (Janssen, L.P., Titusville, NJ) or ethanol as a mock vehicle. At 48h after transfection, the cells were harvested for luciferase assays. Luciferase activities were measured with a luminometer using the Dual-Luciferase™ reporter assay system (Promega, Madison, WI). The results were summarized from three independent sets of transfections and presented as mean±S.D.; statistical significance was tested with Student’s t-test. The results demonstrated that 10 or 20μg/ml KCZ reduced luciferase activity to 67.5% (p<0.01) or 49.9% (p<0.03), respectively, reflecting its suppressive action on AR (Fig. 2). This finding suggests that KCZ improves AGA through the suppression of AR activity.

Fig. 2. KCZ effect on R1881-induced AR transcactivity in CV-1 cells transfected with AR. We used the transfection reagent Fugene-6 (Roche Diagnostics Corp., Indianapolis, IN, USA) to transfect 0.1μg of the reporter plasmid, pGL2-GRE3-bG-luc, 12.5ng of pCI-neo-BamX-AR(Gly23) and 0.2μg of pRL-CMV vector (lanes 1–6) into CV-1 cells cultured at 50–70% confluency in a 24-well plate. The infected cells were treated with 10−9M R1881 (lanes 2–6) or ethanol as a mock vehicle (lane 1). After overnight incubation, KCZ at the indicated concentration was added to the cultures. The activities of the various reporter genes were compared with the luciferase activity in the presence of R1881 and the absence of KCZ (lane 2).

Dermal papilla cells are the main targets for androgen in hair follicles, as evidenced by immunohistochemistry [6] and reporter assays [7] for the detection of AR. Deep penetration of KCZ into dermal papilla is therefore necessary to realize the suppressive action on androgen in vivo. The use of KCZ in combination with detergent containing shampoos in this study may enhance KCZ penetration. On the other hand, a recent study demonstrated that KCZ stimulates hair growth in mice [3], suggesting that its effect on hair is androgen independent. To summarize, KCZ may exert its effect on AGA in both an androgen-dependent and -independent manner.

References
return to Article Outline

[1]. [1]Pierard-Franchimont C, De Doncker P, Cauwenbergh G, Pierard GE. Ketoconazole shampoo: effect of long-term use in androgenic alopecia. Dermatology. 1998;196:474–477. MEDLINE | CrossRef

[2]. [2]Khandpur S, Suman M, Reddy BS. Comparative efficacy of various treatment regimens for androgenetic alopecia in men. J Dermatol. 2002;29:489–498. MEDLINE

[3]. [3]Jiang J, Tsuboi R, Kojima Y, Ogawa H. Topical application of ketoconazole stimulates hair growth in C3H/HeN mice. J Dermatol. 2005;32:243–247. MEDLINE

[4]. [4]Norwood OT. Male pattern baldness: classification and incidence. South Med J. 1975;68:1359–1365. MEDLINE

[5]. [5]Inui S, Nakao T, Itami S. Modulation of androgen receptor transcriptional activity by anti-acne reagents. J Dermatol Sci. 2004;36:97–101. Abstract | Full Text | Full-Text PDF (135 KB) | MEDLINE | CrossRef

[6]. [6]Itami S, Kurata S, Sonoda T, Takayasu S. Interaction between dermal papilla cells and follicular epithelial cells in vitro: effect of androgen. Br J Dermatol. 1995;132:527–532. MEDLINE

[7]. [7]Inui S, Itami S, Pan HJ, Chang C. Lack of androgen transcriptional activity in human keratinocytes. J Dermatol Sci. 2000;23:87–92. Abstract | Full Text | Full-Text PDF (106 KB) | MEDLINE | CrossRef


#18

This study compares the keto foam to the keto cream, and finds that they are both equally effective., however the study was for dandruff, the main purpose that the cream is sold for. Why are they not comparing it to the shampoo if the shampoo is so effective as you claim?

Ketoconazole 2% Foam as Effective as Ketoconazole 2% Cream for Seborrhoeic Dermatitis: Presented at AAD

By Bruce Sylvester

WASHINGTON, DC – February 13, 2004 – The investigative foam formulation of ketoconazole 2% is as effective for seborrhoeic dermatitis as ketoconazole 2% cream, researchers reported on February 9th here at the American Academy of Dermatology 62nd Annual Meeting.

“The efficacy data from this study demonstrate that ketoconazole foam is non-inferior (similar or better than) to ketoconazole cream,” the investigators noted. “The data also demonstrate that ketoconazole foam was safe and well tolerated,” they added.

The researchers enrolled 619 subjects (12 years or older and diagnosed with seborrhoeic dermatitis) in this 4-week multicentre, randomised, double-blind, double-dummy, placebo-controlled study.

The subjects were randomised to 1 of 4 study cohorts: active foam (n = 233), active cream (n = 233) or their vehicles (foam, n = 77 and cream, n = 76). Subjects self-administered twice each day.

The primary endpoint was the proportion of subjects with an Investigator’s Static Global Assessment (ISGA) score of 0-1 at endpoint, defined as “treatment success.”

The secondary endpoint was percent change from baseline to 4 weeks in sum of scores of the signs of seborrhoeic dermatitis (erythaema, scaling and induration) at target area.

The investigators also noted the proportion of subjects achieving a 0 ISGA, or “clear,” for all groups.

The difference in “treatment success” rate between foam and cream was 5.58%. There was a “trend in favor of ketoconazole foam versus foam vehicle,” the investigators reported. “Treatment success was achieved by 50% of patients treated with ketoconazole foam, and 44% of patients treated with ketoconazole cream,” they said.

For improvement in sum of scores from baseline to endpoint (intent-to-treat population), the difference between ketoconazole foam and cream formulations was 4.48 %. “The median percent change from baseline in the sum of scores of signs of seborrhoeic dermatitis at the target area was 80% for ketoconazole foam and 67% for ketoconazole cream,” the investigators noted.

For a “clear” score of 0 on ISGA at Week 4 (intent-to-treat population), the reported difference between ketoconazole foam and ketoconazole cream formulations was 6.44%.
“Additionally, an ISGA score of ‘clear’ was achieved by 39% of patients treated with ketoconazole foam, and 33% of patients treated with ketoconazole cream,” the authors wrote.

The researchers added that the most frequent adverse ketoconazole-foam reactions were mild and transient application-site reactions, resulting in no early subject withdrawals from the study.

[A Randomized, Double-Blind, Double-Dummy, Placebo-Controlled Study of the Safety and Efficacy of Ketoconazole Foam, 2%, Versus Ketoconazole 2% Cream in the Treatment of Seborrheic Dermatitis. Abstract 397]


#19

You will see a lot complaining about the Shampoo


#20

also as to the nizoral shampoo, have YOU regrown hair with the shampoo? If not , and all you can do is post some studies…then you do not have any credibility on the board, and you will become just another Jacob, who posts studies but has no personal results of his own.

Studies, as I said, mean nothing, if YOU do not achieve success with that product or supplement or treatment. What good is a study saying X percent of trialists got success with XYZ, if it did not work ON YOU.

Me with Nizoral cream, yes I used it, yes I recommend it, yes I think my hair is much stronger, less fragile, and even though I have been off my supplements, oral DHT blockers for about 3 months , my hair has not deteriorated now, since using the NIZ cream.

that NEVER happened before. If i went off my supps, within 3 months I would lose 1 third of my hair, before using NIZ

THAT is a personal testimonial, do YOU have the same to offer to the board