The "stuff" in the Follica patent

Stem cell; cell based hair therapy
1

I wanna park this here for future reference…

In yet another particular embodiment of the methods, kits, and compositions of the invention, the EGFR inhibitor (e.g., a small molecule EGFR inhibitor or EGFR antibody) is combined (e.g., administered, formulated, or contained in a kit) with an additional biologically active agent selected from an antihistamine (e.g., mepyramine, diphenhydramine, and antazoline), an anti-inflammatory (e.g., corticosteroids, NTHEs, and COX-2 inhibitors), a retinoid (e.g., 13-cis-retinoic acid, adapalene, all-trans-retinoic acid, and etretinate), an anti-androgen (e.g., finasteride, flutamide, diazoxide, l lalpha-hydroxyprogesterone, ketoconazole, RU58841, dutasteride, fluridil, and QLT-7704), an immunosuppressant (e.g., cyclosporine, tacrolimus, rapamycin, everolimus, and pimecrolimus), a channel opener (e.g., minoxidil, diazoxide, and phenytoin), an antibiotic, and an antimicrobial (e.g., benzyl benzoate, benzalkonium chloride, benzoic acid, benzyl alcohol, butylparaben, ethylparaben, methylparaben, propylparaben, camphorated metacresol, camphorated phenol, hexylresorcinol, methylbenzethonium chloride, cetrimide, chlorhexidine, chlorobutanol, chlorocresol, cresol, glycerin, imidurea, phenol, phenoxyethanol, phenylethylalcohol, phenylmercuric acetate, phenylmercuric borate, phenylmercuric nitrate, potassium sorbate, sodium benzoate, sodium proprionate, sorbic acid, and thiomersal).

In a particular embodiment of the methods, kits, and compositions of the invention, the EGFR inhibitor is administered, formulated, or is part of a kit with an anti-androgen (e.g., finasteride ) and a channel opener (e.g., minoxidil).

2

Cal,

These two: (tacrolimus, rapamycin) immunosuppressants can come in topical creams or compositions.

Daphne Zohar said that the two FDA-approved drugs were approved for “other things” and not hair growth.

If you used a EGF-receptor antagonist and a immunosuppressant…she’d be telling the truth (!).

When you think about it Cal, the all-important series of experiments on human skin on an immunodeficient mice are exactly the same circumstances that would be induced if one was on a immunosuppressant. Basically the mice (plural, because the done the experiment several times according to the patent), is just a life-support system for the skin that was abraded.

If the immunosuppression was alone…“enough”, then the timing really wouldn’t matter if any of the vehicles used in the cream didn’t interefere (a concern).

I was interested to read one article describing one of the topical immunosuppressants to be helpful with port-wine stains on skin. I wonder how many dermatological maladies (shingles, eczema, etc) are really immunological events due to defective dna experession in whatever skin cells? I cant figure out why suppressing the immune system in an area of the skin would make port wine stains go away if this was not the case…

On the patent…You know there are several other things covered in the patent that they dont seem to want to use, but they are there. Beta Catenin, ectodysplasin, FGF, and a few others are indeed mentioned. One wonders if what they REALLY are planning to use is one of the hidden variables therein to control density and follicle SIZE. They no doubt have abraded a bunch of mice by this point, using every damned combo possible.

3

let me remind everyone that I used oral antibiotics, topical immunosupresant, topical arava, minox and topical fin for my first experiment with no new hair growth to show for it.
» Cal, » » These two: (tacrolimus, rapamycin) immunosuppressants can come in topical » creams or compositions. » » » » Daphne Zohar said that the two FDA-approved drugs were approved for “other » things” and not hair growth. » » If you used a EGF-receptor antagonist and a » immunosuppressant…she’d be telling the truth (!). » » » » » » When you think about it Cal, the all-important series of experiments on » human skin on an immunodeficient mice are exactly the same circumstances » that would be induced if one was on a immunosuppressant. Basically the » mice (plural, because the done the experiment several times according to » the patent), is just a life-support system for the skin that was abraded. » » » » If the immunosuppression was alone…“enough”, then the timing » really wouldn’t matter if any of the vehicles used in the cream didn’t » interefere (a concern). » » » » » » I was interested to read o

4

» let me remind everyone that I used oral antibiotics, topical
» immunosupresant, topical arava, minox and topical fin for my first
» experiment with no new hair growth to show for it.
» » Cal, » » These two: (tacrolimus, rapamycin) immunosuppressants can come
» in topical » creams or compositions. » » » » Daphne Zohar said that the two
» FDA-approved drugs were approved for “other » things” and not hair growth.
» » » If you used a EGF-receptor antagonist and a »
» immunosuppressant…she’d be telling the truth (!). » » » » » »
» When you think about it Cal, the all-important series of experiments on »
» human skin on an immunodeficient mice are exactly the same circumstances
» » that would be induced if one was on a immunosuppressant. Basically
» the » mice (plural, because the done the experiment several times according
» to » the patent), is just a life-support system for the skin that was
» abraded. » » » » If the immunosuppression was alone…“enough”,
» then the timing » really wouldn’t matter if any of the vehicles used in the
» cream didn’t » interefere (a concern). » » » » » » I was interested to read
» o

Hmmmn… thanks for posting that. I wonder if geftinib instead of arava would make a difference or is there still a point to even try.

5

» let me remind everyone that I used oral antibiotics, topical
» immunosupresant, topical arava, minox and topical fin for my first
» experiment with no new hair growth to show for it.

Well, that does not matter because we alreadky know from a good and reliable source that follica will have the cure ready in 2 months!

http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/forum_entry-id-37449-page-0-category-1-order-last_answer.html

6

» let me remind everyone that I used oral antibiotics, topical
» immunosupresant, topical arava, minox and topical fin for my first

anyway Z79. Are you aware of anything that could have spoiled your try?

7

How about Leflunomide’s unknown properties when it’s applied topically?

The stuff isn’t active until the body metabolizes it into the correct thing in the first place. All bets are off as to whether or not topical skin absorption would actually do that.

8

» » let me remind everyone that I used oral antibiotics, topical
» » immunosupresant, topical arava, minox and topical fin for my first
»
» anyway Z79. Are you aware of anything that could have spoiled your try?

Good point.

Z79: as well how does your experiment compare with e.g. Baccy’s (in term of methodology)?

9

»
» Z79: as well how does your experiment compare with e.g. Baccy’s (in term
» of methodology)?

Possibly size of wound. I did the entire scalp. Probably not an option for most of you guys unless you’re NW5 and above.

10

» » let me remind everyone that I used oral antibiotics, topical
» » immunosupresant, topical arava, minox and topical fin for my first
» » experiment with no new hair growth to show for it.
»
» Well, that does not matter because we alreadky know from a good and
» reliable source that follica will have the cure ready in 2 months!
»
» http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/forum_entry-id-37449-page-0-category-1-order-last_answer.html

Wait, did I miss something here? Or, is this a joke?

11

» let me remind everyone that I used oral antibiotics, topical
» immunosupresant, topical arava, minox and topical fin for my first
» experiment with no new hair growth to show for it.

how did you abrade your scalp? and how deep? Also, for how long did you applying/use the medications? and I don’t see any lithium?

12

» »
» » Z79: as well how does your experiment compare with e.g. Baccy’s (in
» term
» » of methodology)?
»
» Possibly size of wound. I did the entire scalp. Probably not an option for
» most of you guys unless you’re NW5 and above.

Or could it have been the depth of the wound/or the abrasion method?

Since you did the entire scalp Baccy did you notice some “depth irregularities”, and a correlation between say deeper abraded area and subsequent result (although I suppose this might have been really difficult to notice!)?

13

Both of the getfitinib pictures we have seen with the hair growth were with cancer patients. Chemotherapy suppresses (and sometimes almost completely) the immune system. Both of these people likely had chemotherapy, and I thought that one of them had it for sure. Does it make more sense now?

Why do I have a feeling that the two drugs necessary for hair regrowth are going to turn out to be an immunosuppressant and getfitinib. These two drugs aren’t approved for hair growth, just like Zohar said.

Just putting a immunosuppressant in a cream wont necessarily do the trick. Topical cyclosporin isn’t as effective for androgenic alopecia as internal cyclosporin is. Internal cyclosporin usually has hirsutism as a side effect. Topical cyclosporin was tried for baldness if memory serves, but was only about 20% effective. The immune system is a “body-wide” phenomenon, with T-cells and Killer cells and marker cells going through the blood and lymphatics looking for “foreign” bodies to attack. So just blocking formation of these cells and whatnot in the scalp alone isn’t going to keep others from “making their rounds”.

For Cal and TAGOHL,

 Neither of the two people whom we have seen getfitinib-related hairgrowth were on finasteride or minoxidil. Thats almost a given. But chances are good they had compromised immmuno-capacity from chemotherapy. 



 This is probably why nobody has had much success with the wounding/natural egf inhibitors or wouding/lithium thusfar other than them using carriers and whatnot that might interefere with the process anyway.






 I keep going back to Experiment number 7 and the ENSUING experiments done with human skin grafted to SCID mice. They got hair EVERY TIME according to them. No EGF-Inhibition was needed......................the only difference between these mice acting as "life support" for the human skin grafted to their backs and us is that we have an immune system.



 As for why animals can be wounded and regrow hair pretty regularily and we cannot-----pretty simple: Our immune systems are much more evovled than theirs. We all have read Hideo Uno's comparison between Stumptailed Macaque balding and human balding. The lymphocytic infiltrate, the collagenous streamers, the inflammation, the T-cell infiltration. The immune system gets involved in human androgenic (as well as areata) alopecia, but none of that is apparent in ape-balding. Their hair just shrinks. Our whole scalp changes. 





I bet this is the "missing link" that would lead to success. The problem is.............................I cant think of anywhere one could get a hold of internal cyclo w/o a prescript. I'd like to be wrong about all of this............but what Zohar said not appears to really make sense. Those two drugs are indeed not for hair, but minox or finas are. The anti-microbial and anti-biotic and anti-inflammatory now make sense also.
14

» I bet this is the “missing link” that would lead to success. The
» problem is…I cant think of anywhere one could
» get a hold of internal cyclo w/o a prescript. I’d like to be wrong about
» all of this…but what Zohar said not appears to really make
» sense. Those two drugs are indeed not for hair, but minox or finas are. The
» anti-microbial and anti-biotic and anti-inflammatory now make sense also.

» It looks as though you can get cyclo here without a perscription…?
»
» http://www.drugdelivery.ca/s47894-s-NEORAL.aspx
»
» I followed it through to the checkout point and it never asked me for
» one…

here is what they say about ordering without a perscription:

Do I require a prescription to order from your company?

You do not need to send us your current prescription when placing orders through our escrow service. Every order that is placed through our company will be first approved by a licensed physician before being sent to the pharmacy for dispatch. Your medical information provided at the time of registration will be verified and your medical needs evaluated to determine by the Physician if treatment is appropriate. After the Physician approves your order, a prescription will be issued and will be sent off to our partner pharmacies for filling and shipment. Providing all the information you supplied during registration is accurate, your medication will be shipped without delay. If the physician has any further questions for you before approving your order, they will contact you directly to resolve the issues. The entire consultation process is free of charge.

Online consultations are a new concept in health care that utilize the Internet to improve patient access to physician care. The patient does not receive a traditional physical exam by the physician, but rather completes an online questionnaire and communicates with the physician using our secure online communication tool or by phone. Although online consultations will never take the place of traditional medicine, they do provide a means for patients to receive treatment for a limited number of conditions that, in certain circumstances, may not require a physical exam.

You could just say you had the exact symptoms needed to be elglible…

15

i did wound the entire scalp. deep. i still think I waited too long, 12 days. someone should make a new wound every day for a week and then start treatment, then the window is covered for sure. and Im not saying immunosup is not crucial so feel free trying :slight_smile: » » » » Z79: as well how does your experiment compare with e.g. Baccy’s (in » term » » of methodology)? » » Possibly size of wound. I did the entire scalp. Probably not an option for » most of you guys unless you’re NW5 and above.

16

» Both of the getfitinib pictures we have seen with the hair growth were with
» cancer patients. Chemotherapy suppresses (and sometimes almost completely)
» the immune system. Both of these people likely had chemotherapy, and I
» thought that one of them had it for sure. Does it make more sense now?
»
»
»
» Why do I have a feeling that the two drugs necessary for hair regrowth are
» going to turn out to be an immunosuppressant and getfitinib. These two
» drugs aren’t approved for hair growth, just like Zohar said.

I don’t agree, as they know that the immunosuppressant would never be aproved for a hairloss disorder, I guess, and getfitinib would have to be substituted by a topical equivalent, maybe she meant an antihistaminic ( topical, of course ) ? I don’t know.

About cyclosporin : " … Apart from in transplant medicine, cyclosporin is also used in psoriasis, severe atopic dermatitis and infrequently in rheumatoid arthritis and related diseases, although it is only used in severe cases. It has been investigated for use in many other autoimmune disorders… "

17

» i did wound the entire scalp. deep. i still think I waited too long, 12
» days. someone should make a new wound every day for a week and then start
» treatment, then the window is covered for sure. and Im not saying immunosup
» is not crucial so feel free trying :slight_smile: » » » » Z79: as well how does your
» experiment compare with e.g. Baccy’s (in » term » » of methodology)? » »
» Possibly size of wound. I did the entire scalp. Probably not an option for
» » most of you guys unless you’re NW5 and above.

12 days is wayyyyy too long…the stem cells would probably have already been converted into epithelial cells, thus not creating any new hair follicles. Since you didn’t use lithium = no WNT singaling, that also was a big drawback.

Also, in the latest article, Zohar said that “Scalp disruption is different from dermabrasion”. This also implies that wounding need NOT be deep, gentle wounding would suffice.

18

» » i did wound the entire scalp. deep. i still think I waited too long, 12
» » days. someone should make a new wound every day for a week and then
» start
» » treatment, then the window is covered for sure. and Im not saying
» immunosup
» » is not crucial so feel free trying :slight_smile: » » » » Z79: as well how does
» your
» » experiment compare with e.g. Baccy’s (in » term » » of methodology)? »
» »
» » Possibly size of wound. I did the entire scalp. Probably not an option
» for
» » » most of you guys unless you’re NW5 and above.
»
» 12 days is wayyyyy too long…the stem cells would probably have already
» been converted into epithelial cells, thus not creating any new hair
» follicles. Since you didn’t use lithium = no WNT singaling, that also was a
» big drawback.
»
» Also, in the latest article, Zohar said that “Scalp disruption is
» different from dermabrasion”. This also implies that wounding need NOT be
» deep, gentle wounding would suffice.

Yeah, you should applied arava topically 3 days after the first wounding. Why did you do all that and wait 12 days? Can some tell me why it should be 3 days post wounding instead of right after? Can it do any harm if you apply the topical right away instead of waiting 3 days?

19

»
» I don’t agree, as they know that the immunosuppressant would never be
» aproved for a hairloss disorder,»

Cyclosporin is IN the patent as a possible adjuvant, along with four other immunosuppressants. Its obvious that they are willing to use it if it proves necessary.


It would be approved for the 10 or so days that one would be required to be on it for the hairs to form, that is all. After hair germs were made, one could get back off it---the patent discusses both topical and internal immunosuppressants.
20

» 12 days is wayyyyy too long…the stem cells would probably have already
» been converted into epithelial cells, thus not creating any new hair
» follicles. Since you didn’t use lithium = no WNT singaling, that also was a
» big drawback.
»
» Also, in the latest article, Zohar said that “Scalp disruption is
» different from dermabrasion”. This also implies that wounding need NOT be
» deep, gentle wounding would suffice.

Baccy, since you’re about to repeat the procedure. Can you maybe divide your head in two zones and then try drugs at different timmings on each side. That way, we’ll have a better idea of when to begin drugs after wounding. It is highly unlikely that if you see any regrowth the difference would be considerable enough to look weired, so I don’t think there is any downside to this approach. But we could learn more about drug timmings from your experiment.