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T:DHT ratio


#1

According to this: http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/87/2/589

DHT stays constant even though T drops with the age. Old go bald more likely then young. So are you really guys sure that the guys who say high T is good for hair are lunetics?

What is well established to date is that several important sex hormone levels, although not all, undergo a gradual shift in men after age 40. T and DHEA decline with age, whereas LH, FSH, and sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) rise with age (3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9). At least one important T metabolite, dihydrotestosterone (DHT), apparently remains constant despite the decline of its precursor (9, 10, 11, 12).

#2

Debris, I have been trying to find the original study by the University of Iowa, and I have found nothing. The guy you posted, said that trialees were given testosterone and increased T-levels 600 times. Is difficult to believe that such study on humans is allowed by authorities. Maybe he confused 600 times with 600%, which would indicate that the guy writing the article is not very intelligent, and we should be careful with what he says.

Regarding T-DHT levels, it is my understanding that T declines with age, and DHT increases with age. This is because the 5ar activity increases with age.


#3

This stuff always get back-n-forthed because we’re not always talking about the same conditions when we say “more” and “less” of something.

All androgens are technically bad for hair. If you put a hair follicle in a petri dish and hit it with androgens, that’s categorically bad.

But the hormone RATIOS are another story. A “low testosterone” condition isn’t gonna ultimately be better for hair if the lack of T means that there’s more DHT instead.

From everything I’ve read, I’ve gotten the overall feeling that we should be all be trying to get higher T in relation to estrogens & DHTs as a rule.

Modern life just seems to be over-Estrogen-ing males in general. The meat hormones, the plastics, the higher amounts of body fat we’re usually carrying, etc.

That ratio issue also seems to speed up the onset of “old man” hormone balances where there is higher E, lower T, but also higher DHT. This older-type balance is very bad for hair, and not too great for your life in general compared to the younger (high Test) ratio.


#4

» Debris, I have been trying to find the original study by the University of
» Iowa, and I have found nothing. The guy you posted, said that trialees were
» given testosterone and increased T-levels 600 times. Is difficult to
» believe that such study on humans is allowed by authorities. Maybe he
» confused 600 times with 600%, which would indicate that the guy writing the
» article is not very intelligent, and we should be careful with what he
» says.
»
» Regarding T-DHT levels, it is my understanding that T declines with age,
» and DHT increases with age. This is because the 5ar activity increases with
» age.

You are right. I tried to find it and failed as well. Though I would not be bringing it up if my hair has not thickened so much since I added maca root.

Basically no one can tell I’m balding anymore.


#5

Well, if it works for you, thats the important thing.
But, have you measured your blood’s T-levels? (before and after).
According to the Wikipedia, the hormone levels are not altered with maca.
Although there is an increase in libido.

[edit] Health effects
Maca is consumed as food for humans and livestock, suggesting any risk from consumption is rather minimal. However, maca does contain glucosinolates, which can cause goitres when high consumption is combined with a diet low in iodine. Though this is common in other foods with high levels of glucosinolate, it is uncertain if maca consumption can cause or worsen a goitre.[8] Maca has also been shown to reduce enlarged prostate glands in rats[9][10] though its effects on humans are unknown.

Small-scale clinical trials performed in men have shown that maca extracts can heighten libido and improve semen quality,[11][12] though no studies have been performed on men with sexual dysfunction or infertility. Maca has not been shown to affect sex hormone levels in humans[13] In addition, maca has been shown to increase mating behavior in male mice and rats.[14]
<<<<


#6

Interesting mechanism of action:

Maca Root works so effectively for both men’s and women’s hormonal imbalances because instead of supplying plant hormones (like phytoestrogens), it acts on the hypothalamus-pituitary gland. This hormonal pathway produces precursers to male and female hormones, as well as affecting the adrenal glands. Maca does not necessarily stimlulate it, but acts in a regulatory manner, so whether your body is producing too much or too little of a particular hormone, consuming Maca will balance your system.

http://www.vitaminstohealth.com/maca-root.html


#7

» This stuff always get back-n-forthed because we’re not always talking about
» the same conditions when we say “more” and “less” of something.
»
»
» All androgens are technically bad for hair. If you put a hair follicle in
» a petri dish and hit it with androgens, that’s categorically bad.
»
»
» But the hormone RATIOS are another story. A “low testosterone” condition
» isn’t gonna ultimately be better for hair if the lack of T means that
» there’s more DHT instead.

Exactly. Bryan was talking about how some people advocated topical testosterone for hairloss as testosterone has a lower binding affinity than DHT. But the thing is most of us need DHT for optimum function as a male. Or at least it helps. If not then just jump on dutasteride. Your testosterone will go through the roof. Add an aromatase inhibitor and it will go even further as estrogen falls. But for many people just as DHT is needed to cause hair loss it is needed for proper sexual function.
hh

»
» From everything I’ve read, I’ve gotten the overall feeling that we should
» be all be trying to get higher T in relation to estrogens & DHTs as a rule.
»
»
» Modern life just seems to be over-Estrogen-ing males in general. The meat
» hormones, the plastics, the higher amounts of body fat we’re usually
» carrying, etc.
»
» That ratio issue also seems to speed up the onset of “old man” hormone
» balances where there is higher E, lower T, but also higher DHT. This
» older-type balance is very bad for hair, and not too great for your life in
» general compared to the younger (high Test) ratio.


#8

Maca’s inability to raise T is very dubious, at the very least. I remember reading the study. It was carried out on a preposterous 12-strong sample… I personally take maca root powder. It hasn’t worked miracles either for my hair or my low libido. Just helped a bit, I think.


#9

» » Debris, I have been trying to find the original study by the University
» of
» » Iowa, and I have found nothing. The guy you posted, said that trialees
» were
» » given testosterone and increased T-levels 600 times. Is difficult to
» » believe that such study on humans is allowed by authorities. Maybe he
» » confused 600 times with 600%, which would indicate that the guy writing
» the
» » article is not very intelligent, and we should be careful with what he
» » says.
» »
» » Regarding T-DHT levels, it is my understanding that T declines with
» age,
» » and DHT increases with age. This is because the 5ar activity increases
» with
» » age.
»
» You are right. I tried to find it and failed as well. Though I would not
» be bringing it up if my hair has not thickened so much since I added maca
» root.
»
» Basically no one can tell I’m balding anymore.

Debris !!! congratulations my friend ! I wish I could say the same about my self :smiley: …give me an overview of your regimen please !


#10

Remember that we are all different, but if you want to try here’s the regimen:

MACA root (several months), finasteride (years), nettle root extract + green tea extract(I skip these two quite often) + spruce tree lignans(every day religiously as for some reason I do believe it holds my temples where they are) (all for years) - in dosages similar to the immortal hairs regime, colostrum (It fixed my itching greatly, and previously I seemed to be allergic to ketoconazole, now I can use and do use Revita every day, I’m on colostrum & daily revita for more then 9 months already), centrum multivitamins, triple magnesium vitamin, vitamin b complex, ocasionally ZMA before bed (used to take it together with fin, and vitamin b complex (do you remember? zinc + vitanim B6 in form of pyridoxal, its the zix formula but orally), but reduced the frequency recently), some weight lifting (not too much but I grew some muscles in the last few months as well which is pretty unusual, before it was impossible for me to grow anything, I always have been skinny gaunt guy.

I’m still nw 2.5 or so, but my hair has thickened a lot so no one can see anything if I grow it out. and not only when dry and styled properly but even in the morning when I wake up after a night spent with some acrobatics ( which is nice if you know what I mean :slight_smile: )


#11

Yep. About those acrobatics of yours, what has been the effect of FIN + nettle root on them? What’s your FIN dosage?
Other than that, I must say that my regimen is very much similar to yours: FIN (2.5mg), Nettle root, green tea,flax lignans, sesame seeds, multi vit, gingko, minox, essential oils and so on. No ketoconazole. Found it harmless.


#12

looooool happy to hear about your acrobatics… whats your Fin dosage ?