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Studies that back up Follica Research- For Benji and Co


#1

Hi Guys,

don’t know if these studies have been posted earlier, but the findings by this professor from University of Southern California probably back up the research done by Cotsarelis
The first study explains the findings of the Group of Cotsarelis
(notice that Ito et al. is the Cotsarelis research team)
http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~widelitz/2007_chuong_nature.pdf

The second one posted in Journal of Dermatology in January might explain why Intercytex and Hair Multiplication might never work at all, since his findings suggest that Hair Regeneration might be dependable from the surrounding area and will not work with a single follicle (this could also explain why it worked better with Prestimulation)

http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~cmchuong/2008_nature_plikus.pdf

The third link is just an abstract for the newest result which supports his findings, which is published as well in Journal of Dermatology this May

The Professor’s page
http://www.usc.edu/programs/pibbs/site/faculty/chuong_c.htm

Thought this sound very interesting and promising since it strongly supports the findings of Cotsarelis et al.


#2

Follica will fail (cit.)


#3

» Follica will fail (cit.)

??? based on?


#4

» ??? based on?

it was just a citation from this topic “prediction: follica will fail [Thread]”

however I really think there are not high chance that what works on mice will works on humans :frowning:


#5

I only had time to skim the articles, but did get the gist of them.

We know via Example 7 of the patent, that Cotsorailis was able to wound human skin on a SCID mouse and regenerate hair. But there are two factors here that are different from bald scalp. Number one, the skin was donor-area skin obtained from a strip transplant, and number two the mice dont have an immune system.

I actually feel VERY GOOD about Follica being able to make more hair back in the donor area. Im pretty darn confident about that, and their process could be an adjunt to a FUE-transplant (not a strip). However, I do wonder if the thinner (missing a water layer and a layer of fatty acids) frontal scalp will be an enouraging environment for hair follicles to form de noveau.

We know, because single hair follicles are moved from the back to the front all the time in hair transplantation, that the genetics to miniaturize are held within the individual philosebaceous unit. The big difference between balding follicles and non-balding follicles is probably cag-repeats on the androgen receptor gene and the ectodysplasin gene that went along with the androgen receptor gene when skin was growing over a persons head in the first trimester of embryological development. The “waves” and hair grain and wreath shape are almost certainly determined at this time. Balding scalp hair follicles have more stable androgen receptors than occipital scalp follicles and more alpha five reductase activity in the hairs root sheaths–making more DHT prevalent in balding scalp.

I want follica to get on with it and see what they have got. If they can just make more hair in the donor area…its really all we need in conjunction with a hair transplant. If they can make hair on bald scalp, so much the better. However…it would seem that hair made on bald scalp might have the same genetic tendency to miniaturize so one would have to be on an anti-androgen to avoid that unless particular genes can be blocked from expressing themselves during the ten or so day period when these hairs are made. Thats a tall order, but if they can actually make hairs on the bald scalp its something that could be down the line in the future. Being on an anti-androgen during the days the follicle forms is probably important. High androgens in pregnancies manifest themselves in finger digit ratios in the offspring, showing that they do indeed make a difference. This wounding-healing period is a “second chance” to make hair--------so some things can perhaps be controlled for. Cyclosporin, anti-histamines, minoxidil, and anti-androgens are all in the patent literature. There are almost assuredly going to use all of that.

I keep in mind also, in reference to this board, that some of these men have invested in ICX and Aderans stock and dont want to see Follica have success. Hence you see some negativity. Some people dont want follica to succeed for ideological reasons because their success would represent the death of a few kooky baldness theories. I hope Follica works, because if it doesnt, I realize it will be several years before anything else might work. HM obviously is a good ways off since ICX will have to go through a phase three trial even if their product is “decent”. I have a strong inclination to believe ICX isn’t growing that much hair, and Aderans is trying to grow hair outside the body for re-implantation as fully differentiated hairs (and not mere cells). Thats going to be a few years yet…probably 2012 at the earliest if you do the math for completing phase two, the year review, phase three, year review…MHRA review, actual release. ACELL is probably working in animals by a much similar process as follica does…the ACELL powder will probably be found over time to eitehr be suppressing EGF or increasing WNT or bone marrow protien or beta catenin, etc. So if Follica doesn’t work in human bald scalp, ACELL very well might not either. I hope they both work like charms and end baldness, but I try to keep my feet on the ground.


#6

» » ??? based on?
»
» it was just a citation from this topic “prediction: follica will fail
» [Thread]”
»
» however I really think there are not high chance that what works on mice
» will works on humans :frowning:

I know, a lot of things grows hair on those damn rodents and not on humans, but I hope that follica will be different.

Does anyone know of any other studies using human skin grafted onto a mice?


#7

» I only had time to skim the articles, but did get the gist of them.
»
»
» We know via Example 7 of the patent, that Cotsorailis was able to wound
» human skin on a SCID mouse and regenerate hair. But there are two factors
» here that are different from bald scalp. Number one, the skin was
» donor-area skin obtained from a strip transplant, and number two the mice
» dont have an immune system.
»
»
» I actually feel VERY GOOD about Follica being able to make more hair back
» in the donor area. Im pretty darn confident about that, and their process
» could be an adjunt to a FUE-transplant (not a strip). However, I do wonder
» if the thinner (missing a water layer and a layer of fatty acids) frontal
» scalp will be an enouraging environment for hair follicles to form de
» noveau.
»
» We know, because single hair follicles are moved from the back to the
» front all the time in hair transplantation, that the genetics to
» miniaturize are held within the individual philosebaceous unit. The big
» difference between balding follicles and non-balding follicles is probably
» cag-repeats on the androgen receptor gene and the ectodysplasin gene that
» went along with the androgen receptor gene when skin was growing over a
» persons head in the first trimester of embryological development. The
» “waves” and hair grain and wreath shape are almost certainly determined at
» this time. Balding scalp hair follicles have more stable androgen receptors
» than occipital scalp follicles and more alpha five reductase activity in
» the hairs root sheaths–making more DHT prevalent in balding scalp.
»
»
» I want follica to get on with it and see what they have got. If they can
» just make more hair in the donor area…its really all we need
» in conjunction with a hair transplant. If they can make hair on bald scalp,
» so much the better. However…it would seem that hair made on bald
» scalp might have the same genetic tendency to miniaturize so one would have
» to be on an anti-androgen to avoid that unless particular genes can be
» blocked from expressing themselves during the ten or so day period when
» these hairs are made. Thats a tall order, but if they can actually make
» hairs on the bald scalp its something that could be down the line in the
» future. Being on an anti-androgen during the days the follicle forms is
» probably important. High androgens in pregnancies manifest themselves in
» finger digit ratios in the offspring, showing that they do indeed make a
» difference. This wounding-healing period is a “second chance” to make
» hair--------so some things can perhaps be controlled for. Cyclosporin,
» anti-histamines, minoxidil, and anti-androgens are all in the patent
» literature. There are almost assuredly going to use all of that.
»
»
» I keep in mind also, in reference to this board, that some of these men
» have invested in ICX and Aderans stock and dont want to see Follica have
» success. Hence you see some negativity. Some people dont want follica to
» succeed for ideological reasons because their success would represent the
» death of a few kooky baldness theories. I hope Follica works, because if it
» doesnt, I realize it will be several years before anything else might work.
» HM obviously is a good ways off since ICX will have to go through a phase
» three trial even if their product is “decent”. I have a strong inclination
» to believe ICX isn’t growing that much hair, and Aderans is trying to grow
» hair outside the body for re-implantation as fully differentiated hairs
» (and not mere cells). Thats going to be a few years yet…probably
» 2012 at the earliest if you do the math for completing phase two, the year
» review, phase three, year review…MHRA review, actual release.
» ACELL is probably working in animals by a much similar process as follica
» does…the ACELL powder will probably be found over time to eitehr
» be suppressing EGF or increasing WNT or bone marrow protien or beta
» catenin, etc. So if Follica doesn’t work in human bald scalp, ACELL very
» well might not either. I hope they both work like charms and end baldness,
» but I try to keep my feet on the ground.

Regarding the fact that frontal scalp loses a water layer, Follica are saying their method induces embryonic follicle formation, as we originally had as fetuses.
Do you think this will have any impact on the frontal scalp? I.e regenerating the lost water layer and creating the optimum environment for follicle formation and hair growth?


#8

»
»
» Regarding the fact that frontal scalp loses a water layer, Follica are
» saying their method induces embryonic follicle formation, as we originally
» had as fetuses.
» Do you think this will have any impact on the frontal scalp? I.e
» regenerating the lost water layer and creating the optimum environment for
» follicle formation and hair growth?

I hope it grows hair like a charm, but I do ponder this: When you see a receeding hairline…the skin in front of it that used to be “scalp” skin bearing hair, sort of turns into forehead skin over time. Look at it. Believe it or not, there are vellus hairs all over that receeded forehead skin that used to be your hair. Look really close in a well-lit mirror and you see all those thousands of vellus hairs—that used to be your hairline. Follica is making hair, but will it make hair that is just like the hair in the skin around it? In this case that would be more vellus hair. For example, if you performed dermabrasion and blocked epidermal growth factor on your shoulder…I’d expect the new hair growth on the shoulder to be just like the hair that is there. I wouldn’t expect “chest hair” quality follicles. This is my worry with follica. I hope they dont have a trial, get dissapointing results in the bald area and declare it a failure without trying it in the back of the head. If most men could just double their wreath just ONCE, they’d have enough hair for a very very good transplant. Imagine if you could take ALL of your donor hair and move it, you’d have nice hair up front. If a hair transplant (FUE) could take half the wreath (5000 follicular units) and regenerate it, and do it one more time…that would be about 10,000 follicular units with the same density left in the back. It would be like Gho’s procedure but much much more easy to do with small dermabrasion tools—and making “donor” hair back in the back again.

Im hoping FOllica can at LEAST do this. FUE surgeons would be very happy, and we’d all be happy. Its not as “elegant” as going and getting your head abraded and growing Brad Pitt hair or anything, but I dont see why this wouldn’t work, especially if one was on cyclosporin for about ten good days–suppressing the immune system. I cant think of anything else that would phuck it up. Probably couldn’t wash your head back there for those ten days though…so what, you could still wash the front. I wonder if the FUE would have to be performed first though,as too many hairs being present might present a signalling problem, so it might be better to denude the forrest first before.

I want this to work “The One”. I mean it when I say this…if it doesn’t it will be several years. Think about it. Phase two at ICX complete in 2009, a year review 2010, phase three 2011-2012, a review and MHRA approval…I cant see it coming out any sooner than 2012, and lets be honest; thats a best-case scenario. Aderans maybe has completed a phase one but we dont know because they dont say anything. I mean this…hell it may be 2013-2014 with HM. ACELL, the HM in the Indian Clinics with the EHRS president overseeing it, and as a way outside shot Phoenixbio. Nothing else is happening in hair-MAKING. Its this or nothing in the near term.


#9

I keep on saying this:

If the HM methods turn out to have trouble with shiny-bald skin, then we could get some moderately-dense FUEs grafted into those areas a few months ahead of time. That would probably reverse the problem in those areas enough to get things working again before the HM method is done on it.

Problem solved.


#10

» I only had time to skim the articles, but did get the gist of them.
»
»
» We know via Example 7 of the patent, that Cotsorailis was able to wound
» human skin on a SCID mouse and regenerate hair. But there are two factors
» here that are different from bald scalp. Number one, the skin was
» donor-area skin obtained from a strip transplant, and number two the mice
» dont have an immune system.

with their method (if I am not wrong) they can “stop” our immune system in a focalized area to promote hair regrowh, so the problem two should be solved, the first thing (even if I’m not wrong :P) is indifferent 'cause they are able to repeating the mechanism for the creation of embryonic follicles using the intrinsic properties of the scalp, just what happened when we were babies

but there are many things we (and they) don’t know that could stop this research, it’s the same thing everytimes for every research. I really hope this time will not be a research useful only to discover something knowledge new on which start new research for the future


#11

» »
» »
» » Regarding the fact that frontal scalp loses a water layer, Follica are
» » saying their method induces embryonic follicle formation, as we
» originally
» » had as fetuses.
» » Do you think this will have any impact on the frontal scalp? I.e
» » regenerating the lost water layer and creating the optimum environment
» for
» » follicle formation and hair growth?
»
»
» I hope it grows hair like a charm, but I do ponder this: When you see a
» receeding hairline…the skin in front of it that used to be
» “scalp” skin bearing hair, sort of turns into forehead skin over time.
» Look at it. Believe it or not, there are vellus hairs all over that
» receeded forehead skin that used to be your hair. Look really close in a
» well-lit mirror and you see all those thousands of vellus hairs—that used
» to be your hairline. Follica is making hair, but will it make hair that is
» just like the hair in the skin around it? In this case that would be more
» vellus hair. For example, if you performed dermabrasion and blocked
» epidermal growth factor on your shoulder…I’d expect the new
» hair growth on the shoulder to be just like the hair that is there. I
» wouldn’t expect “chest hair” quality follicles. This is my worry with
» follica. I hope they dont have a trial, get dissapointing results in the
» bald area and declare it a failure without trying it in the back of the
» head. If most men could just double their wreath just ONCE, they’d have
» enough hair for a very very good transplant. Imagine if you could take ALL
» of your donor hair and move it, you’d have nice hair up front. If a hair
» transplant (FUE) could take half the wreath (5000 follicular units) and
» regenerate it, and do it one more time…that would be about 10,000
» follicular units with the same density left in the back. It would be like
» Gho’s procedure but much much more easy to do with small dermabrasion
» tools—and making “donor” hair back in the back again.
»
» Im hoping FOllica can at LEAST do this. FUE surgeons would be very happy,
» and we’d all be happy. Its not as “elegant” as going and getting your head
» abraded and growing Brad Pitt hair or anything, but I dont see why this
» wouldn’t work, especially if one was on cyclosporin for about ten good
» days–suppressing the immune system. I cant think of anything else that
» would phuck it up. Probably couldn’t wash your head back there for those
» ten days though…so what, you could still wash the front. I wonder if
» the FUE would have to be performed first though,as too many hairs
» being present might present a signalling problem, so it might be better to
» denude the forrest first before.
»
»
» I want this to work “The One”. I mean it when I say this…if
» it doesn’t it will be several years. Think about it. Phase two at ICX
» complete in 2009, a year review 2010, phase three 2011-2012, a review and
» MHRA approval…I cant see it coming out any sooner than 2012,
» and lets be honest; thats a best-case scenario. Aderans maybe has completed
» a phase one but we dont know because they dont say anything. I mean
» this…hell it may be 2013-2014 with HM. ACELL, the HM in the
» Indian Clinics with the EHRS president overseeing it, and as a way outside
» shot Phoenixbio. Nothing else is happening in hair-MAKING. Its this or
» nothing in the near term.

I really hope it works as well, but I have to admit I would be slightly disappointed if I had to use in in conjunction with a hair transplant.
I can’t decide If I could ever bring my self to get one, the techniques/results would have to improve significantly for me.

I can’t see Acell being tested on humans for MPB in the foreseeable future, unless a HT DR tries it to heal scars, as far as I know no one is planning on using it for the purpose of fighting hair loss are they?
I wish they would but I’m skeptical on its abilities to regrow hair follicles.
I know it can grow animal fur, but how similar is fur to human hair?
I could be wrong though because on animals it has shown to heal wounds to look like they pretty much never happened, hopefully it can do the same on the scalp.

So our only known hopes for HM in the next 10 years are:

ICX - TRC.

Aderans.

Phoenixbio.

Shiseido.

Dr Batra’s Clinic.

Follica.

Possibly Acell.

It seems like there are a few companies working on HM so things look promising at first glance, but its shocking if you think that 5 of these companies are working on pretty much the same thing (injecting DP cell’s).
Follica are the only ones working o something different.
I’m optimistic about follicas approach and the people behind it and their confidence makes me more so, I just wish they would hurry up with trials.


#12

» » ??? based on?
»
» it was just a citation from this topic “prediction: follica will fail
» [Thread]”
»
» however I really think there are not high chance that what works on mice
» will works on humans :frowning:

It’s already worked on humans…many times…they just didn’t know the reasons why. Now with the advancement of the biotechnological field, they are finally understanding the reasons why.


#13

» » »
» » »
» » » Regarding the fact that frontal scalp loses a water layer, Follica
» are
» » » saying their method induces embryonic follicle formation, as we
» » originally
» » » had as fetuses.
» » » Do you think this will have any impact on the frontal scalp? I.e
» » » regenerating the lost water layer and creating the optimum
» environment
» » for
» » » follicle formation and hair growth?
» »
» »
» » I hope it grows hair like a charm, but I do ponder this: When you see a
» » receeding hairline…the skin in front of it that used to be
» » “scalp” skin bearing hair, sort of turns into forehead skin over
» time.
» » Look at it. Believe it or not, there are vellus hairs all over that
» » receeded forehead skin that used to be your hair. Look really close in
» a
» » well-lit mirror and you see all those thousands of vellus hairs—that
» used
» » to be your hairline. Follica is making hair, but will it make hair that
» is
» » just like the hair in the skin around it? In this case that would be
» more
» » vellus hair. For example, if you performed dermabrasion and blocked
» » epidermal growth factor on your shoulder…I’d expect the
» new
» » hair growth on the shoulder to be just like the hair that is there. I
» » wouldn’t expect “chest hair” quality follicles. This is my worry with
» » follica. I hope they dont have a trial, get dissapointing results in
» the
» » bald area and declare it a failure without trying it in the back of the
» » head. If most men could just double their wreath just ONCE, they’d have
» » enough hair for a very very good transplant. Imagine if you could take
» ALL
» » of your donor hair and move it, you’d have nice hair up front. If a
» hair
» » transplant (FUE) could take half the wreath (5000 follicular units) and
» » regenerate it, and do it one more time…that would be about 10,000
» » follicular units with the same density left in the back. It would be
» like
» » Gho’s procedure but much much more easy to do with small dermabrasion
» » tools—and making “donor” hair back in the back again.
» »
» » Im hoping FOllica can at LEAST do this. FUE surgeons would be very
» happy,
» » and we’d all be happy. Its not as “elegant” as going and getting your
» head
» » abraded and growing Brad Pitt hair or anything, but I dont see why this
» » wouldn’t work, especially if one was on cyclosporin for about ten good
» » days–suppressing the immune system. I cant think of anything else that
» » would phuck it up. Probably couldn’t wash your head back there for
» those
» » ten days though…so what, you could still wash the front. I wonder
» if
» » the FUE would have to be performed first though,as too many
» hairs
» » being present might present a signalling problem, so it might be better
» to
» » denude the forrest first before.
» »
» »
» » I want this to work “The One”. I mean it when I say
» this…if
» » it doesn’t it will be several years. Think about it. Phase two at ICX
» » complete in 2009, a year review 2010, phase three 2011-2012, a review
» and
» » MHRA approval…I cant see it coming out any sooner than
» 2012,
» » and lets be honest; thats a best-case scenario. Aderans maybe has
» completed
» » a phase one but we dont know because they dont say anything. I mean
» » this…hell it may be 2013-2014 with HM. ACELL, the HM in
» the
» » Indian Clinics with the EHRS president overseeing it, and as a way
» outside
» » shot Phoenixbio. Nothing else is happening in hair-MAKING. Its this or
» » nothing in the near term.
»
» I really hope it works as well, but I have to admit I would be slightly
» disappointed if I had to use in in conjunction with a hair transplant.
» I can’t decide If I could ever bring my self to get one, the
» techniques/results would have to improve significantly for me.
»
» I can’t see Acell being tested on humans for MPB in the foreseeable
» future, unless a HT DR tries it to heal scars, as far as I know no one is
» planning on using it for the purpose of fighting hair loss are they?
» I wish they would but I’m skeptical on its abilities to regrow hair
» follicles.
» I know it can grow animal fur, but how similar is fur to human hair?
» I could be wrong though because on animals it has shown to heal wounds to
» look like they pretty much never happened, hopefully it can do the same on
» the scalp.
»
» So our only known hopes for HM in the next 10 years are:
»
» ICX - TRC.
»
» Aderans.
»
» Phoenixbio.
»
» Shiseido.
»
» Dr Batra’s Clinic.
»
» Follica.
»
» Possibly Acell.
»
» It seems like there are a few companies working on HM so things look
» promising at first glance, but its shocking if you think that 5 of these
» companies are working on pretty much the same thing (injecting DP cell’s).
» Follica are the only ones working o something different.
» I’m optimistic about follicas approach and the people behind it and their
» confidence makes me more so, I just wish they would hurry up with trials.

I don’t think that they will be required to test Acell for MPB. It will be released for human use this fall and most likely can be used for any wound healing (even on the scalp). Whether it will grow hair or not…I don’t know. Nobody does. Until someone tries it. I’ve spoken with someone at Acell and they felt confident that it would work…but they were not one of the researchers so I don’t know if he really understood the science behind it. Because of this, I am cautiously optimistic. I think that it is definately worth trying it on someone who is going for a HT (either strip of FUE). If it doen’t work…the patient will be no worse off anyways. If it does grow hair, we would virtually have an unlimited donor supply. They could move donor (protected) hair from the back/sides to the top, apply
Acell to the wound and wait for the removed donor hair to regenerate itself. Keep your fingers crossed.


#14

» Follica is making hair, but will it make hair that is
» just like the hair in the skin around it?

That’s part of the big question…To me, hair characteristics (e.g., size, direction, color) and density are the big unknowns with this treatment.

I still need to look at the paper below, but it does offer hope that Follica can grow terminal hair where there are currently none. The fact that an EGF receptor antagonist (gefitinib, which is mentioned many times in Follica’s patent) can grow a terminal hair on the tip of someone’s nose - where there is normally only very, very tiny vellus hairs - does offer hope that we can grow terminal hairs on a bald scalp…at least in theory.

An unusual terminal hair growth on the nose tip associated with gefitinib therapy. Br J Dermatol. 2007 May;156(5):1087-8. Epub 2007 Mar 28.


#15

Just found out my cousins husband, who is completely bald had a skin cancer removed from the top of his head a few years back. The area were the cancer was removed grows hair, only place on his head that grows hair.


#16

As for the characteristics of the hair, I don’t worry about it at all.

Just from the genetics I think it will have to be what we want. (Or else at worst it will be somewhere between what we want and what MPB originally did to it.)

But to have had naturally curly black hair before MPB, and then have Follica regrow it straighter and light-colored or something . . . where did the programming for these other hair characteristics come from? It would be just as hard for your body to come up with the genetic instructions to make it wrong as it would be for your body to come up with the genetic instructions to make it right. It still takes a successful and correct set of instructions to make a fully-formed-but-different hair follicle.

If the process is imperfect or unfinished then we’re probably looking at small hairs or no hairs at all. But still probably not DIFFERENT characteristics. We’d probably just get the original characteristics, but less reversal of the MPB changes than we want.


#17

» I keep on saying this:
»
» If the HM methods turn out to have trouble with shiny-bald skin, then we
» could get some moderately-dense FUEs grafted into those areas a few months
» ahead of time. That would probably reverse the problem in those areas
» enough to get things working again before the HM method is done on it.
»
» Problem solved.

You do have a point Cal. From experience, since I have had a transplant on the front scalp, I can tell you that the skin there is definitely more healthy than the back “shiny” part.


#18

» Just found out my cousins husband, who is completely bald had a skin cancer
» removed from the top of his head a few years back. The area were the
» cancer was removed grows hair, only place on his head that grows hair.

Ive heard a few “odd” stories about wounding and hair growth on people’s heads via car accidents (seen one of those), lighting strikes, and razor blade cutting with garlic applied (that one was intentional) and minoxidil injections. This adds to that list. Its why Im cautiously hopeful about Follica.


#19

There absolutely has to be some possible way to regrow new hairs with wounding. There are WAY too many anecdotal cases of it working for there not to be a sound biological basis in the process.

The only question is whether Follica has found it or not.


#20

why doesnt someone just get Acell from that Toronto Vet clinic and try it?