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Secrecy , hypocricy , and videotape


#21

Dr Feller will you please post your videotape?

btw, Dr. Arvind, is what Dr. Feller said about the pictures true?


#22

» I have personally also received 2 threats to back of about information
» regarding FUE megasessions.
» Now I read that others have received similar threats, I feel more and more
» confirmed that there is something like a ‘strip lobby’ which feels it needs
» to protect its ‘boys club’ members.

It just doesn’t get more entertaining than this. Can you tell more about these threats? Sorry for sounding skeptical but I find it hard to believe that both you and Dr. Woods are getting threats because you want to do fue procedures. Who are these people threatening you and what did they say?


#23

» » I have personally also received 2 threats to back of about information
» » regarding FUE megasessions.
» » Now I read that others have received similar threats, I feel more and
» more
» » confirmed that there is something like a ‘strip lobby’ which feels it
» needs
» » to protect its ‘boys club’ members.
»
»
» It just doesn’t get more entertaining than this. Can you tell more about
» these threats? Sorry for sounding skeptical but I find it hard to believe
» that both you and Dr. Woods are getting threats because you want to do fue
» procedures. Who are these people threatening you and what did they say?

yes me too i am very nosy and would enjoy reading the details of these threats

the plot thickens

man these docs are so dramatic and catty to each other arent they


#24

All HT docs who have stepped up to the challenge of FUE are to be commended for their contribution. However, the hype and distortions used by some of these practitioners has to stop. And this is the only reason I speak out on these forums. No one doc or clinic is the “best” FUE doc. No one has “the ultimate” technique. The truth is, ALL FUE is essential the same no matter what label is slapped on it. The problem comes in when some claim superiority of their brand WITHOUT demonstrating better results and without elucidating the differences. The nonsense about withholding disclosure to protect “industry secretes” is hogwash. If you have something you think is great you file a patent on it and then exploit it for all it’s worth. I already have 3 FUE patents and several more coming. I’ve never worried about disclosing secrets or losing business, why should anyone else?

Franklin- You are right. I should have mentioned that the comparisons between strip and FUE results should only be made between the top docs of both fields. You clearly had an awful strip doctor to which a I can personally attest when I met you a few years ago. He was never a good HT doc and I have since fixed much of his work. Your results from FUE are A-1 and demonstrates the benefits of this relatively new procedure and industry, but had you first gone to a top notch strip doctor you would have had the same results without traveling and for far less money.

Craig- The reference to videotape was more important 6 years ago when all FUE practitioners made such a big deal over “secrecy”, “proprietary tools”, and supposed “intellectual property”. You’d think these doctors were working on the Manhattan Project by the way they marketed themselves. And that’s all their secrecy was about, marketing and hype. To smash that milieu I allowed Shawn to videotape my procedure from start to finish and post it online.

I don’t think they ever bothered editing it and posting it, but the point was that I made FUE transparent in order to demystify it. No other FUE docs would allow that. They always had the doors closed, shades pulled, and lights dim. No cameras allowed. I opened all the doors and shone the light brightly. I posted photos, video, and wrote profusely on the internet. I even had my own section published in the authorative text of Hair Transplant Surgery.

The result, as predicted, was that many new FUE doctors sprang up calling me for advice and information about FUE on a regular basis. These early doctors included Dr. Walter Unger, Dr. Jones, Dr. Wolfe, Dr. Armani, Dr. Alexander, Dr. Gabel, and several others whose names I can’t remember.

Here’s a video of how FUE is performed that I made in 2002 to demystify it. It was a “crude” FUE, and not the way I do it today, but it took a lot of the hot air out of the sails of those who would present FUE as some sort of black magic.

The reason I demonstrated FUE to other doctors and the public was obviously NOT to keep the business to myself. Quite the opposite. It was and is Dr. Woods, and not I, who worries about competitors. I share my information freely with the public and peers, he jealously guards it.

I knew that if FUE were to grow in popularity and gain credibility we would need many more doctors performing it. And it worked, because that’s exactly what happened. I enjoy a healthy FUE practice, and have done so since 2002.

Dr. Woods philosophy of jealously withholding FUE, however, had the opposite effect. As he himself regularly mentions, he was performing FUE more than 10 years before the rest of us, yet almost no one ever heard of him or his techniques because he wanted to protect his business and income stream from competitors. I personally have no problem with this, but back then FUE had virtually no credibility and no popularity and still would not if not for the internet and Dr. Woods desire to use it to market himself.

The bottom line is that those who truly seek to serve the industry, the public, and their own self- interest best do so through TRANSPARENCY. Those who are out SOLELY for themselves clamp down veils of secrecy.

SUX- This is not a game and sportsmanship has nothing to do with it. I’ve already demonstrated that my results are every bit as good as ANY other FUE doc and that’s a fact. Again, if you absolutely must make personal comments about me you know my real name and where I work and may do so to my face. How about you give me your name and address so you can be held accountable for your words. Don’t say anything on the web that you wouldn’t say in person. This is not your debate and you should just keep your hands off the keyboard and read. Maybe you’ll learn something. I have laid out some important points and now it is time for FUE docs to respond, not you.

Bverotti- Your post stuns me the most. Didn’t you write on the internet yourself that you have almost no photos that demonstrate equal growth between your FUE results and that of strip results? You’ve been in business for 6 years and you have virtually no photos that rival those of strip surgery. Shouldn’t you of all people have at least 50 such results by now? Until you do, I can’t imagine how you typed out your most recent post.

Your comment about “experience” is distorted. If the practitioner performs the same surgery over and over again, it doesn’t mean they are becoming “experienced” it just means they are becoming repetitive. Experience comes when NEW things are tried and practiced. Not the same old thing over and over again. I do, however, applaud Dr. Iter’s transparency in disclosing what he does for peers and the public. That’s how it should be done. And if improvement in the field is to come, it will come from Docs like him who are willing to put their feet to the fire. Please video his surgery and post it on here for all to see.


#25

» » » I have personally also received 2 threats to back of about information
» » » regarding FUE megasessions.
» » » Now I read that others have received similar threats, I feel more and
» » more
» » » confirmed that there is something like a ‘strip lobby’ which feels it
» » needs
» » » to protect its ‘boys club’ members.
» »
» »
» » It just doesn’t get more entertaining than this. Can you tell more
» about
» » these threats? Sorry for sounding skeptical but I find it hard to
» believe
» » that both you and Dr. Woods are getting threats because you want to do
» fue
» » procedures. Who are these people threatening you and what did they say?
»
» yes me too i am very nosy and would enjoy reading the details of these
» threats
»
» the plot thickens
»
» man these docs are so dramatic and catty to each other arent they

These doctors should be embarrassed for the posts they made in the thread, none behaves like a doctor, it’s a dirty business, I hope their days are numbered and they will all be out of business when hair multiplication comes.


#26

Dr. Feller,
We have started out in 2004, about 4 years ago. Unlike some others in the industry we have not jumped for record sessions. Our docs worked slowly but surely, identifying all the pitffals and gathering experience. For every problem a solution was found.

Our goal was to be able to offer FUE megassesions since the beginning.
As you know that does not come easy nor quickly. It took us years to get the routines perfected, staff trained, achieved a library of experience.

My FUE experience with dr. Jones was excellent. I had MORE yield than with my previous strip surgery. This is something I often hear from our own patients nowadays. Did they all go to bad strip docs ?
I would prefer our patients would cheer lead us here and on other boards, but I guess Europeans have different mentality … or we have bad luck that we dont get those patients that would glorify their doc.

We have no problem with our results. If you only offer 1 service, in our case FUE hair transplant, it would not take long before we would go out of bussines if our work was bad.

Let me say that every strip doc on this planet has his corps hidden in the closet, including all docs on this forum and all other.

I can not think of 1 good reason any doc can moraly prefer the strip method, I really can’t knowing what FUE can do in the hands of experience surgeons.

:slight_smile:


#27

» Bverotti- Your post stuns me the most. Didn’t you write on HTN yourself
» that you have almost no photos that demonstrate equal growth between your
» FUE results and that of strip results? You’ve been in business for 6 years
» and you have virtually no photos that rival those of strip surgery.
» Shouldn’t you of all people have at least 50 such results by now? Until you
» do, I can’t imagine how you typed out your most recent post.
»
» Your comment about “experience” is distorted. If the practitioner performs
» the same surgery over and over again, it doesn’t mean they are becoming
» “experienced” it just means they are becoming repetitive. Experience comes
» when NEW things are tried and practiced. Not the same old thing over and
» over again. I do, however, applaud Dr. Iter’s transparency in disclosing
» what he does for peers and the public. That’s how it should be done. And if
» improvement in the field is to come, it will come from Docs like him who
» are willing to put their feet to the fire. Please video his surgery and
» post it on here for all to see.

Bverotti had posted his video before,
http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/forum_entry-id-26170.html


#28

» I can not think of 1 good reason any doc can moraly prefer the strip
» method, I really can’t knowing what FUE can do in the hands of experience
» surgeons.
»
» :slight_smile:

We just still don’t see those wow mega sessions (5000-7000 AKA H&W and alike)and they have been promised for a long long time. We have one or two but that’s about it.


#29

» An entire FUE branch of the industry has been created and has been growing
» steadily since 2001 without you. In fact, based on internet photos and
» write ups, you have been surpassed on several fronts.

an entire branch? yeah right, i can count with one hand how many experienced fue/bht docs out there, and u are certainly not one of them. i never like dr woods because of his arrogance but now i think you just top it all in that department. you sure talk big for someone who has almost no fue/bht results to show for, if you can’t walk the walk, well u know the rest…


#30

» SUX- This is not a game and sportsmanship has nothing to do with it. I’ve
» already demonstrated that my results are every bit as good as ANY other FUE
» doc and that’s a fact. Again, if you absolutely must make personal comments
» about me you know my real name and where I work and may do so to my face.
» How about you give me your name and address so you can be held accountable
» for your words. Don’t say anything on the web that you wouldn’t say in
» person. This is not your debate and you should just keep your hands off the
» keyboard and read. Maybe you’ll learn something. I have laid out some
» important points and now it is time for FUE docs to respond, not you.

Dr Feller you have shown few, granted nice, results with FUE from what I have seen. But until you jump in with both feet and commit to it full time you will never be at the forefront and will undoubtedly struggle to overcome the pitfalls you have mentioned on many occasion. What you fail to see is that others have already conquered these and moved forward because they have FULLY embraced the technique, committed themselves, and recognized that strip is an invasive, inferior method that the people do not want anymore.
FUE is a specialty that demands full time dedication to it and until you recognize that you will always be one step behind, in my opinion.

And please do not tell me to keep my hands off the keyboard. Last time I checked, this was a patient to patient forum and I will state my opinion any time I feel necessary. And if Im not mistaken it is YOU who has been told on more than one occasion(on HLH) to stay out of the patient discussions, yet you just cant help yourself, that ego thing again… But I dont mind that at all, yours as well as other doctors presence is welcomed and appreciated. Veteran posters are quite capable of keeping the BS in check, but when you start telling patients to stay out then you are crossing the line…

And I have every right to remain annonymous and post my personal opinions, since I am not in business offering my services to the public in exchange for money as you are. We are held to different standards. I am a nobody. You choose to be in the public eye therefore you take what comes with the territory.
That being said, I would have no problem saying everything that I have said on the web to your face, if ever the opportunity. They are my opinions, formed by years of reading, seeing and speaking with doctors and patients. I am entitled to them and I stand by them, even in your presence, your threats notwithstanding. But I live across the country and have no interest in flying out to New York to argue my opinions with a doctor from a hair loss forum. My life simply does not afford me that option, nor do I care…


#31

“Franklin- You are right. I should have mentioned that the comparisons between strip and FUE results should only be made between the top docs of both fields. You clearly had an awful strip doctor to which a I can personally attest when I met you a few years ago. He was never a good HT doc and I have since fixed much of his work. Your results from FUE are A-1 and demonstrates the benefits of this relatively new procedure and industry, but had you first gone to a top notch strip doctor you would have had the same results without traveling and for far less money” Thanks doc for the compliment. But my biggest gripe of the idustry in general at this time is why were all those docs telling me Fue would not work? Imagine I was in my late 30’s at the time of my first ht. If I even new about Dr. Woods offering Fue I would not have a scar. Even if I went to a top doc and had a small scar it is just something if I could turn back the clock I would have never done . And that is not taking anything away from docs that do quality strip work. I was the patient I should have been told about both procedures but all I got was it was a smoke and mirrors procedure and another doc called Fue a Dog and pony show that Dr. Woods was offering. Lol. This is nothing but proffessional jelousy in my eyes. It still amazes me to this day that most of these docs I had consults with now offer there own version of Fue even if it is on a limited basis. If I was researching Fue techniques today I would hope the doctor would have at least a dozen or so reults to show me . I do not even see that on there websites. And as far as saving money and travel. This should never be the final judgement in any cosmetic surgery. Only if you narrowed your surgeons down to a few choices after your own personal research (again comparing results you saw in person.) Then you can do comparrison shop.


#32

Franklin,
FUE was largely unkonwn in this country at the time you sought your first transplant. That’s why it wasn’t offered. Unfortunatley, there are still MANY strip doctors who unfairly deride FUE for the very reason many of the kool-aid drinkers on here allude to, that is, they can’t do it and they don’t want to lose the business.

John,
Thank you for posting that video. Now we have something substantive to talk about.

Did you see how the doctor stabbed the skin and twisted vigorously? THAT is problem number one with FUE. That twisting may functionally transect the graft even if the graft LOOKS intact afterward. The more the graft is twisted back and forth, the more damage is done. I believe this is the number one reason for poorer FUE yields compared to strip where no such force is encountered.

The second area is where the graft is pulled out of the skin with forcepts. In this particular patient the grafts came out without much difficulty and that DOES happen in a number of lucky patients. But MOST patients are not that lucky.

In most patients the amount of traction is much higher than in this video. You will not see an edited video demonstrating this. The problem is that in some patients, if the doctor cuts too low with the punch it will cut the graft. So to insure that happens he cuts a bit more shallow. When that happens, however, it’s harder to remove the graft from the skin because there is still too much lower skin anchoring it. To overcome this problem the doctor has to pull HARDER with the forcepts and SQUEEZE harder to keep a grip.

Those are the three forces that I believe have limited FUE with comparison to strip:

  1. Torsion
  2. Traction
  3. Compression.

This is a UNIVERSAL fact of all FUE to date. Notice that NO FUE doctor has come on here to SPECIFICALLY refute this truth. They know that if they did, they would not be offering “informed consent” and would therefore be breaking the law and opening themselves up to lawsuits.

Forget about the rest of the noise, those 3 forces are all that count.


#33

i do not doubt there are some FUE results that are very impressive

however in general all the WOW results, are strip

unfortunately all the horror scar stories are also associated with strip

i think in general HTs are so many unknowns…future thinning is the most important and most overlooked…then add scarring of the donor area…unpredictable thinning all over the scalp from stress from the procedure…or with FUE from transecting , adjacent follicles inadvertently,

why guys get tranaplants nowadays is a mystery to me, perhaps in the right docs hands, and with minimal scarring, and luck of no dramatic future thinning, it can pay off


#34

I am not absoultey sure would have to look up the details. But I thought by 1999-2000 Rassman and Bernstein offered there version (Fox) to a limited few? I spoke to both of these docs too in 2001. Bernstein examined me said I am not a candidate did not even try there so called fox test on me just turned me down. Then I got on the phone with Rassman and he sounded very arrogant about what he can do and all. I told him what his partner at the time Bernstein said and he changed his attitude and said if he would not do it he would not either not even examine me just took his word. See how fustratiing the research process can be? As it turned out I was a perfect candidate for Fue. That’s why I tell potential patients to go out and not just take a docs word you have to trust your own instincts when you are satsified you did research to the fullest of your ability. But nothing bad to say about Bernstein he was easy to talk with unlike his partner.


#35

» » I can not think of 1 good reason any doc can moraly prefer the strip
» » method, I really can’t knowing what FUE can do in the hands of
» experience
» » surgeons.
» »
» » :slight_smile:
»
» We just still don’t see those wow mega sessions (5000-7000 AKA H&W and
» alike)and they have been promised for a long long time. We have one or two
» but that’s about it.

Who is promising ?

As I stated before, we take a slow aproach. Expect to see grown out 5000 unsplit graft cases by around this time next year.


#36

» » » I can not think of 1 good reason any doc can moraly prefer the strip
» » » method, I really can’t knowing what FUE can do in the hands of
» » experience
» » » surgeons.
» » »
» » » :slight_smile:
» »
» » We just still don’t see those wow mega sessions (5000-7000 AKA H&W and
» » alike)and they have been promised for a long long time. We have one or
» two
» » but that’s about it.
»
» Who is promising ?
»
» As I stated before, we take a slow aproach. Expect to see grown out 5000
» unsplit graft cases by around this time next year.

Actually, it was you!!! (and others). You said at the end of last year that we would be seeing large sessions reported the board soon. FUE has been around for some time and was touted as a full replacement of strip since 2005 but we still have the same kind of promises as the one that you have placed in this very post. If it is the case then could you explain what has changed???


#37

» » » » I can not think of 1 good reason any doc can moraly prefer the strip
» » » » method, I really can’t knowing what FUE can do in the hands of
» » » experience
» » » » surgeons.
» » » »
» » » » :slight_smile:
» » »
» » » We just still don’t see those wow mega sessions (5000-7000 AKA H&W
» and
» » » alike)and they have been promised for a long long time. We have one
» or
» » two
» » » but that’s about it.
» »
» » Who is promising ?
» »
» » As I stated before, we take a slow aproach. Expect to see grown out
» 5000
» » unsplit graft cases by around this time next year.
»
» Actually, it was you!!! (and others). You said at the end of last year
» that we would be seeing large sessions reported the board soon. FUE has
» been around for some time and was touted as a full replacement of strip
» since 2005 but we still have the same kind of promises as the one that you
» have placed in this very post. If it is the case then could you explain
» what has changed???

Marco did you honestly believe that it was possible to have 5000-7000 fue without causing serious damage to the donor?


#38

Feller wants to see everyones tool, in person or on videotape.

He has relentlessly posted aggressive challanges to everyone performing FUE, and attacked me in particular.

So why is he so obsessed with seeing everyones tools ?.

All the other doctors seem to be getting on with it and not giving a damn over someone elses instruments. Its just Feller.

Question is why.

Here is my opinion.

Feller regards himself as an inventor. Since early 2003 he has patented various contraptions and designs regarding follicular extraction.

Every conceivable possibility he has tried to patent, including PERFORATIONS, SERRATIONS, VACUUM CHAMBERS , RELIEVED TIPS etc etc. He has tried to cover everything with a patent

Evidently, he still performs strip, so his gadgets aren’t working so well.

But he must be certain that whatever instrument any doctor anywhere in the world is using , they MUST BE USING AT LEAST ONE OF HIS PATENTED COMPONENTS.

That means the doctor is in breach of a patent . All Feller needs to do is have a peek and then the legalities begin, ensuring he gets a cheque in the mail every time an FUE is performed.

Its what I think is the reason for his ongoing almost frantic posts over instrument disclosure, challenges etc

Dr Ray Woods


#39

» Feller wants to see everyones tool, in person or on videotape.
»
» He has relentlessly posted aggressive challanges to everyone performing
» FUE, and attacked me in particular.
»
» So why is he so obsessed with seeing everyones tools ?.
»
» All the other doctors seem to be getting on with it and not giving a damn
» over someone elses instruments. Its just Feller.
»
» Question is why.
»
» Here is my opinion.
»
» Feller regards himself as an inventor. Since early 2003 he has patented
» various contraptions and designs regarding follicular extraction.
»
» Every conceivable possibility he has tried to patent, including
» PERFORATIONS, SERRATIONS, VACUUM CHAMBERS , RELIEVED TIPS etc etc. He has
» tried to cover everything with a patent
»
» Evidently, he still performs strip, so his gadgets aren’t working so
» well.
»
» But he must be certain that whatever instrument any doctor anywhere in the
» world is using , they MUST BE USING AT LEAST ONE OF HIS PATENTED
» COMPONENTS.
»
» That means the doctor is in breach of a patent . All Feller needs to do is
» have a peek and then the legalities begin, ensuring he gets a cheque in the
» mail every time an FUE is performed.
»
» Its what I think is the reason for his ongoing almost frantic posts over
» instrument disclosure, challenges etc
»
» Dr Ray Woods

Dr. Woods is this the threats that you and Bverotti were talking about? Dr. Feller threatened to sue you for using his patented tools?


#40

Well,
We have done many many 3000 graft sessions last year. This year we are venturing in the 4000 and 5000 graft (multiple sessions).

I am not worried about results at all. We have our patients comming back for more grafts, sending relatives and friends. Unsatisfied patients usually dont come back for more, dont recommend us, and some will use the forums to vent.

Listen,
If FUE was such a doubfull procedures with sooo many risks it would show in all results. Nature has a way of telling us what is right and wat is wrong.

Improperly trained FUE surgeons and FUE wannebees, along with record seekers are IMHO the worst that can happen to FUE.
That is why we practice it every day, to keep routines going, to strive for perfection.

Here is a little video of our doc just getting started on a new session.
The donor area has just been numbed and he will go for the first scores.
During the first scores he will get a feeling for the skin, the depth and the angle. In fact in the video he briefly adjust his instrument.
Please notice how a highly trained FUE surgeon gets it right, from the beginning. During his initial extractions all grafts came out easily and intact. This is an example of how things start in 90% of the cases. In some cases it takes somewhat longer to adjust some variables before the rest of the extractions take place.

Starting an FUE procedure by dr. De Reys at Prohairclinic