Sage oil..............TGF-beta 1 inhibitor

Topicals for hair loss
21

» [Effect of Salvia miltiorrhiza on autocrining growth factor by fibroblasts
» cultured in vitro][Article in Chinese]
»
»
» Wang YM, Wei FK, Liu M.
» Department of Pediatric Surgery, West China Hospital, Sichuan University,
» Chengdu Sichuan, P. R. China 610041.
»
» OBJECTIVE: To investigate the mechanism of overhealing alleviation by
» salvia miltiorrhiza (SM) in wound healing. METHODS: Fibroblasts were
» cultured in vitro, and SM was applied with different concentrations (40,
» 80, 160 and 320 micrograms/ml) and time(the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th
» days) to influence their autocrine. The levels of transforming growth
» factor-beta 1 (TGF-beta 1) and epidermal growth factor (EGF) were
» determined by ELIAS and radioimmunoassay respectively. RESULTS: The SM
» could inhibit autocrine of TGF-beta 1 by fibroblasts (P < 0.05). However,
» it did not affect autocrine of EGF (P > 0.05). CONCLUSION: The above
» results indicate that SM reduces overhealing by inhibiting the autocrine of
» TGF-beta 1 selectively.
»
» PMID: 12508435 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
»
»
»
»
» Its one of the “big four” essential oils that was used for hairloss for
» eons until the medical establishment came along and told us that “nothing
» works for baldness”. The four were cedarwood, rosemary, sage, and thyme.
» There are versions of this sold thesedays in thickening shampoos with
» menthol usually substitutiong for cedarwood (probably because of the more
» pleasant smell). I have a feeling this stuff probably worked to help
» someone keep what they had. I know peppermint is an effective anti-androgen
» for a fact. Ive seen that on my own beard hair. Sage is now in a few
» “hairloss” shampoos like American Crew Thickening and “Fuller, Thicker Hair
» Shampoo” along with menthol, rosemary, and thyme.

I just came across this paper:
The inhibitory effect in vitro of salvia miltiorrhiza and tetramethyl pyrazine on the growth of fibroblasts

I don’t think we want growth inhibition of fibroblasts. there are some more papers about this topic.

need another tgf-ß inhibitor without adverse effects

22

» While the subject has come up, is there any preferred source of copper
» peptides for topicals?

I’m in the same position as you - can’t decide between which kind to buy. You probably know the guy who did primary research on CPs is Dr. Pickard. The CPs that he did most research on are patented by Tricomin company…which he left a while ago to start his own. The CPs he sells under his name are different…he calls them SRCPs - second generation copper peptides. Bryan’s position is that the ones in Tricommin are proven to be good and not the new ones. But I talked to Dr.P and he said that these are just as effective if not more than the CPs in Tricommin.

If you want higher concentration CPs then skinbiology is the way to go…they have from very light concentration to high. Even with lower concentration Dr.P recommends that people dilute them water during the first few days to avoid skin irritation.

23

» » While the subject has come up, is there any preferred source
» » of copper peptides for topicals?
»
» I’m in the same position as you - can’t decide between which kind to buy.
» You probably know the guy who did primary research on CPs is Dr. Pickard.
» The CPs that he did most research on are patented by Tricomin
» company…which he left a while ago to start his own. The CPs he sells
» under his name are different…he calls them SRCPs - second generation
» copper peptides. Bryan’s position is that the ones in Tricommin are proven
» to be good and not the new ones. But I talked to Dr.P and he said that
» these are just as effective if not more than the CPs in Tricommin.

When you refer to “Dr. P”, do I assume correctly that you’re referring to Dr. Pickart, and not a certain other Dr. P? :slight_smile:

In any event, I consider what Dr. Pickart said to be a bit misleading and (perhaps) disingenuous. Tricomin uses one specific copper peptide, one which was hand-picked out of a variety of others as being the most effective for growing hair (and yes, the effectiveness of specific copper peptides for growing hair can vary over a wide range).

Folligen and other similar products from Dr. Pickart, on the other hand, are simply mass-produced quantities of completely random copper peptides; some of those random peptides are probably pretty effective for hair, but a great many of them aren’t. In other words, Dr. Pickart simply makes up for quality by providing lots of quantity. Whether that simple approach is good or bad for our specific purpose, I’m not sure. Using equal quantities of peptides in both approaches, it would certainly be a lot CHEAPER, even if it’s not as EFFECTIVE as synthesizing one specific copper peptide compound.

24

» When you refer to “Dr. P”, do I assume correctly that you’re referring to
» Dr. Pickart, and not a certain other Dr. P? :slight_smile:

yes, Dr. Pickart :slight_smile:

» In any event, I consider what Dr. Pickart said to be a bit misleading and
» (perhaps) disingenuous. Tricomin uses one specific copper peptide,
» one which was hand-picked out of a variety of others as being the most
» effective for growing hair (and yes, the effectiveness of specific copper
» peptides for growing hair can vary over a wide range).

Do you have link to study etc that talks about different types of CPs? I’d like to learn more about it.

» Folligen and other similar products from Dr. Pickart, on the other hand,
» are simply mass-produced quantities of completely random copper
» peptides; some of those random peptides are probably pretty effective for
» hair, but a great many of them aren’t. In other words, Dr. Pickart simply
» makes up for quality by providing lots of quantity. Whether
» that simple approach is good or bad for our specific purpose, I’m not sure.
» Using equal quantities of peptides in both approaches, it would certainly
» be a lot CHEAPER, even if it’s not as EFFECTIVE as synthesizing one
» specific copper peptide compound.

See thats the problem…there is no decisive/factual information out there, everything is sort of vague. Other than the big 3, people are pretty much playing the equivalent of russian roulette with these treatments. Being a NW7, I definitely wanna keep my scalp in good health but can’t decide which treatment to pursue. I’m leaning towards CPs in general, compared to other skin rejuvenation treatments because CPs have DHT inhibiting properties.

http://www.anagen.net/rame1.htm
“Sugimoto et al (Sugimito 1995) found that copper ion is a potent inhibitor of 5-alpha reductase, inhibiting both types of 5-alpha reductase (both type 1 and type 2) that produce DHT and is the only metal to do so. Copper ion inhibits (50% reduction in activity) type 1 alpha reductase at 1.9 micromolar (0.12 micrograms copper ion per milliliter) and type 2 alpha reductase at 19.2 microM (1.2 micrograms copper ion per milliliter)”

25

» Do you have link to study etc that talks about different types of CPs?
» I’d like to learn more about it.

It almost certainly isn’t available online. If you have access to a medical library, here’s the book that contains the studies, followed by a brief description of them. “Dermatologic Research Techniques”, CRC Press, 1996. They are three consecutive chapters in the book:

Chapter 16: “Phototrichogram Analysis of Hair Follicle Stimulation: A Pilot Clinical Study with a Peptide-Copper Complex” Ronald E. Trachy, Leonard M. Patt, Gordon M. Duncan, and Bernard Kalis. This was done on human subjects with MPB. Both total and anagen hair density increased significantly (anagen hair: +39%) with the larger topical dose of copper-peptide (glycyl-histidine-lysine-valine-phenyalanine-valine), especially when compared to total and anagen hair density LOSSES in the placebo-treated group.

Chapter 17: “Quantitative Assessment of Peptide-Copper Complex-Induced Hair Follicle Stimulation Using the Fuzzy Rat” Ronald E. Trachy, Hideo Uno, Shelley Packard, and Leonard M. Patt. This was done on rats. Copper peptides significantly stimulated hair growth, compared to vehicle.

Chapter 18: “Evaluation of Telogen Hair Follicle Stimulation Using an In Vivo Model: Results with peptide-Copper Complexes” Ronald E. Trachy, Erika D. Timpe, Irene Dunwiddie, and Leonard M. Patt. This was on mice. Copper peptides significantly stimulated hair growth in mice, compared to vehicle; it also exceeded the growth induced by 2% topical minoxidil, which was also tested.

The specific copper compound they call PC1234 (which, I believe, is the same peptide used in Tricomin) was considerably more effective (on a weight-per-weight basis) at growing hair than the other main copper peptide they tested, which they call PC1031. Yet another copper peptide they call PC1024 wasn’t effective at all. They make the following important statement in the Discussion section near the end (emphasis in italics is my own): “…These results, combined with the inactivity of PC1024, show that the activity of peptide-copper complexes is dependent upon both the copper component and the proper peptide sequence. […] The hexapeptide-copper complex PC1031, while more potent when administered intradermally, is less potent when used topically than the tri-peptide copper complex PC1234.”

So the important point here is that while using a bunch of randomly-generated copper peptides (like Folligen) will work, it won’t be as effective as using certain specific copper peptides which have been hand-picked to be good hair growth stimulators. (All other things being equal, of course! :slight_smile: )

» See thats the problem…there is no decisive/factual information out
» there, everything is sort of vague. Other than the big 3, people are pretty
» much playing the equivalent of russian roulette with these treatments.
» Being a NW7, I definitely wanna keep my scalp in good health but can’t
» decide which treatment to pursue. I’m leaning towards CPs in general,
» compared to other skin rejuvenation treatments because CPs have DHT
» inhibiting properties.
»
» http://www.anagen.net/rame1.htm
» “Sugimoto et al (Sugimito 1995) found that copper ion is a potent
» inhibitor of 5-alpha reductase, inhibiting both types of 5-alpha reductase
» (both type 1 and type 2) that produce DHT and is the only metal to do so.
» Copper ion inhibits (50% reduction in activity) type 1 alpha reductase at
» 1.9 micromolar (0.12 micrograms copper ion per milliliter) and type 2 alpha
» reductase at 19.2 microM (1.2 micrograms copper ion per milliliter)”

I’ve seen that study and the claim made by Dr. Pickart, but I do NOT recommend that you try to inhibit 5a-reductase with the use of copper ions. Use copper peptides for their ability to work as SODs, not their ability to provide a few copper ions.