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One thing you guys fail to consider


#1

And that I rarely , in fact I have never seen it discussed

you keep talking about ICX and all their progress, and you want to see if they can achieve xyz results as far as percentage of regrowth, and hopefully it will stand on its own, with no transplant. This would be ideal

What I do not see discussed, is making ICX, state the balding status of their trial patients. That is, what is the status of the men in the study, how long have they been losing their hair. Are they just thinning or are they slick bald for 10 years in their bald areas that are being tested.

I have discovered over the last 20 + years in my regrowth, with many different regimens, that this is the make or break information that determines whether you are capable of getting regrowth.

When I first started thinning, and most of my follicles, though dying, were still alive, or lets put it this way, capable of producing hair., it was relatively easy to get regrowth, even with vitamins and minerals. As the years passed, my crown died, I was doing nothing to address DHT , and my hair slowly deteriorated overall. When I started on DHT blockers, or inhibitors, as a lot of guys like to call them, My hair did a complete reversal since 1999. The paper thin sides thickened to about triple the thickness of what they were previously, and the see through hair on top, filled in, and thickened immensely. Since then my hair has not deteriorated one bit. However, the crown, in my opinion, is dead. It was slick bald for at least 10 yrs before I added the dht blockers. It did not respond AT ALL…TO ANYTHING I tried, after that point, Including niz cream. While the rest of the hair in the thinning areas, it was almost like I had a hair transplant, Amazing transformation.

That is why, to me it is critical to know the balding status of these trial patients, BEFORE they started the trial. How long have they been thinning. is their hair just thinning, or do they have slick bald areas. If they have slick bald areas, how long have these areas been this way, ! yr? 10 yrs?
These questions are critical, in my experience.

If their test subjects are just thinning, and they lump them all into the same category of guys losing their hair, no matter what their status, this to me is deceptive.

To imply that just because they got a lot of regrowth, on these thinning patients, means that a guy who is slick bald for 10 yrs will get the same result, is ludicrous.

Yet I do not see this discussed on the board


#2

» Yet I do not see this discussed on the board

as far as i recall, it has been intensively discussed under the name of rejuvenation. If your follicules are “dead”, which is likely to be the case if you’ve been balding for 20+ years, it is possible that ICX will induce de novo hair. I am certain Intercytex is making investigations regarding this.
Don’t forget that Follica will enter clinical trials soon.

cheers


#3

» » Yet I do not see this discussed on the board
»
» as far as i recall, it has been intensively discussed under the names of
» rejuvenation/de novo. If your follicules are “dead”, which is likely to be the
» case if you’ve been balding for 20+ years, it is possible that ICX will
» induce de novo hair. I am certain Intercytex is making investigations
» regarding this.
» Don’t forget that Follica will enter clinical trials soon.
»
» cheers


#4

I’m 21 years old, not a specific norwood but an uniform diradation in the balding area… i speak for myself when i speak about ICX, it’s clear that everybody could have a different response to the TRC.
But this not because the TRC don’t work, just because in nature every men are different from others, so it’s the same for an hair transplant (people with bad regrow), or for others medical therapies… it’s the nature, i think it’s very difficult to have the same effect to me in confront of a 60 years old man with 30 years of bald skin…


#5

» » Yet I do not see this discussed on the board
»
» as far as i recall, it has been intensively discussed under the name of
» rejuvenation. If your follicules are “dead”, which is likely to be the
» case if you’ve been balding for 20+ years, it is possible that ICX will
» induce de novo hair. I am certain Intercytex is making investigations
» regarding this.
» Don’t forget that Follica will enter clinical trials soon.
»
» cheers

true what you say, but, does ICX disclose the balding history of its trialists, when it reports the results

or does it just lump all the trialists into one big group and say, this percentage of the subjects achieved regrowth


#6

Look man, I’m one of the nicest guys you’ll ever meet and an extreme optimist which is why I’m here following the news and not jumping off a bridge.

Hanging in there, you are an annoyance. You serve no purpose other to bother people interested in learning. why are you here? clearly you have no wife, girlfriend life partner, friends or social outlet. this is your social scene, but you fail to understand the people of this site are not your friends. they are strangers trying to learn about new technologies. no one, i repeat, no one comes here to listen to single thing you say or have to say. you’re not a doctor, scientist or anyone of significance. You remind me of the old joke about whats better than winning a gold medal in the special olympics: not being the special olympics. no offense to anyone with developmental dissabilities obviously. so youre on a hair loss site posting your a$$ off talking no sense, congratulations you win a gold medal.

so really why are you here posting? clearly this has become the only social scene you can belong to, and thats sad.why do tear peoples hopes down and make absurd predictions? the people here are not social network for you.

you dont need to respond, you just need to go away and find some sort of life.


#7

Look, the traditional MPB medications don’t heal the follicles. They are able to slow/stop the follicle from incurring further damage and nothing more. Hairs only thicken/regrow on the strength of whatever health they’ve still got left when the damage was stopped. That’s why it’s so hard to reverse “dead” follicles.

Minox might stimulate growth, but this is still not really repairing the MPB damage. I would equate it to just “ignoring” some of the damage as long as the crutch is being used daily. But the hairs are immediately no better than before if you withdraw the crutch of Minox, including new DHT damage that was still being incurred DURING the Minox usage.

ICX’s project is based on the idea that replenishing the lost Dermal Papillae cells will cause the hair follicles to reverse the MPB damage. So it’s not just stopping the damage, but injecting with follicle with the necessary lost cells to start repairing itself.

Maybe ICX-TRC will work and maybe it won’t. But they’re not operating with a logic as flawed as Hangin wants to paint this picture.


#8

Look let me explain this to you little boy. I am not under the delusion that anyone on the crybaby HM board likes me, and guess what I could not give a rats ass. This board is full of whiners and baldies who cannot even figure out how to save what little hair they have left, HM is their only hope, they dislike me because I do not join their cheerleading sessions of ICX and lap up the GREAT NEWS GREAT NEWS …BS posts , that say HM will be here in 2008

If you check out the natural board you will see plenty of guys following my regimen and seeing results, and asking my advice. Exactly what regimen do you have that people respect?

I bring up extremely valid points, which, if not addressed by ICX make their
trials worthless

but alas, crying pseudo optimists, like you, get upset for anyone daring to bring up legitimate questions

you are one of the blind cheerleaders on the board, who faithfully lap up anything ICX says, like some delusional moron,

You would be a perfect candidate for a financial scam, you are one of those people who have no clue on how to ask , adversarial questions,

Guys like you , would invest 100,000 dollars in some Ponzi scheme without having the brains to investigate it, then cry about losing their money

did you graduate high school, just curious

Your nick says it all, gottabelieve…what other choice do you have when you are too stupid to even save your hair you have now

Did you happen to get an email from the government of Nigeria asking you to assist them in transferring 30 million dollars to the USA? I bet you are jumping right on that one arent you:rotfl:


#9

» What I do not see discussed, is making ICX, state the balding status of
» their trial patients. That is, what is the status of the men in the study,
» how long have they been losing their hair. Are they just thinning or are
» they slick bald for 10 years in their bald areas that are being tested.
»
» I have discovered over the last 20 + years in my regrowth, with many
» different regimens, that this is the make or break information that
» determines whether you are capable of getting regrowth.

We’ve been through this issue extensively in the past. It is currently unknown whether ICX is performing neogenesis, rejuvination, or both. If it is neogenesis, then length of time since baldness is not a factor. If it is rejuvination, it could be a factor. However, keep in mind that stem cells perform their repair via wound signals given off by damaged tissue. So it just might turn out that being balder for longer is actually better, as the wound signals will be stronger.

Dr. Gho stated that when performing his version of HM rejuvination, length of time of baldness was not a factor. But he later clarified that is only up to the point where you can still find the follicles. IOW, if you have a very small little hair present in the follicle, it will regrow. OTOH, if the follicle has fibrosis, you are SOL.

Paul Kemp is balder than a beet and grew 66 hairs from 100 injections. However, it is important to realize that the injections were in a thinning area–not slick bald–so it doesn’t answer the question you are asking.

Right now, your question, like so many other questions about HM is, “wait and see.” However, since HM works by a completely different mechanism than DHT inhibitors, you cannot use DHT logic to answer your question. The underlying mechanical principles are apples and oranges. Most likely, the “make or break information” you seek will be more about biochemical individuality than any other factor.


#10

» » What I do not see discussed, is making ICX, state the balding status of
» » their trial patients. That is, what is the status of the men in the
» study,
» » how long have they been losing their hair. Are they just thinning or
» are
» » they slick bald for 10 years in their bald areas that are being tested.
» »
» » I have discovered over the last 20 + years in my regrowth, with many
» » different regimens, that this is the make or break information that
» » determines whether you are capable of getting regrowth.
»
» We’ve been through this issue extensively in the past. It is currently
» unknown whether ICX is performing neogenesis, rejuvination, or both. If it
» is neogenesis, then length of time since baldness is not a factor. If it is
» rejuvination, it could be a factor. However, keep in mind that stem cells
» perform their repair via wound signals given off by damaged tissue. So it
» just might turn out that being balder for longer is actually better, as
» the wound signals will be stronger.
»
» Dr. Gho stated that when performing his version of HM rejuvination, length
» of time of baldness was not a factor. But he later clarified that is only
» up to the point where you can still find the follicles. IOW, if you have a
» very small little hair present in the follicle, it will regrow. OTOH, if
» the follicle has fibrosis, you are SOL.
»
» Paul Kemp is balder than a beet and grew 66 hairs from 100 injections.
» However, it is important to realize that the injections were in a thinning
» area–not slick bald–so it doesn’t answer the question you are asking.
»
» Right now, your question, like so many other questions about HM is, “wait
» and see.” However, since HM works by a completely different mechanism than
» DHT inhibitors, you cannot use DHT logic to answer your question. The
» underlying mechanical principles are apples and oranges. Most likely, the
» “make or break information” you seek will be more about biochemical
» individuality than any other factor.

66 hairs from 100 injections is not very awe inspiring


#11

gottabelieve:
Look man, I’m one of the nicest guys you’ll ever meet and an extreme optimist which is why I’m here following the news and not jumping off a bridge.

Hanging in there, you are an annoyance. You serve no purpose other to bother people interested in learning. why are you here? clearly you have no wife, girlfriend life partner, friends or social outlet. this is your social scene, but you fail to understand the people of this site are not your friends. they are strangers trying to learn about new technologies. no one, i repeat, no one comes here to listen to single thing you say or have to say. you’re not a doctor, scientist or anyone of significance. You remind me of the old joke about whats better than winning a gold medal in the special olympics: not being the special olympics. no offense to anyone with developmental dissabilities obviously. so youre on a hair loss site posting your a$$ off talking no sense, congratulations you win a gold medal.

so really why are you here posting? clearly this has become the only social scene you can belong to, and thats sad.why do tear peoples hopes down and make absurd predictions? the people here are not social network for you.

you dont need to respond, you just need to go away and find some sort of life.

There’s little reason to respond to Hanging. Nomatter the situation, every HM topic Hanging lends his voice to concludes in a colossal disaster. Consider the derogatory nature of this thread’s subject line – One thing you guys fail to consider – it implies he knows more than us before the discussion even started. Moreso, there’s little point to argue with someone who said “66 hairs from 100 injections is not very awe inspiring”. This man wouldn’t be inspired if Jesus, Mohammed, and Buddha came to pay him a visit.

There’s another reason to ignore Hangin. Last month – before his post was deleted by admin – hanging said the following two things: 01) He likes to pick on people in the HM section when he’s bored (which happens 24hrs/day) 02) He literally admitted that picking on us was his hobby.

But here’s the thing: 01) Anyone who occupies their entire day doing the same thing repeatedly voids their right to call it a hobby - it’s a lifestyle. 02) Hanging isn’t very good at picking on people.

I submit anyone that spends their entire life doing something miserably (despite society’s best effort to steer them in the right direction) is a failure at life.

.


#12

“66 hairs from 100 injections is not very awe inspiring”

I would be jumping for joy if I got 66 hairs from 200 injections! Hell, you could stick a needle in my scalp and leave it there if I got 66 hairs per 100 injections. The fact that they could even get one hair is outstanding.


#13

If they can do 66 hairs per 100 injections, and 1000 injections in a 2 hour lasting session.

Thats 660 new hair in 2 hours.

66 000 new hair in just 100 sessions.

Now imagine that they surely could do better. I mean, use some expensive finer needle, automate the delivery (I remember they said that reasonably slow release was cruicial for success, so tatoo gun is not a viable option probably buy needle that can do 10 injections at once might be).

If they could do 5 times better, then 66000 new hair in just 20 2 hour sessions. 2 times a month and in a year you have full head of hair.

I know it is unusual from a pessimist like me, but I think it is awesome.

If only it worked so good.


#14

» “66 hairs from 100 injections is not very awe inspiring”
»
» I would be jumping for joy if I got 66 hairs from 200 injections! Hell,
» you could stick a needle in my scalp and leave it there if I got 66 hairs
» per 100 injections. The fact that they could even get one hair is
» outstanding.

disagree
I can get regrowth, of way more than 66 hairs with just nizoral cream or my regimen, regrowth is not the issue, the issue is, is this regrowth in 10 yr old slick bald areas, i highly doubt that is the case

Also lets assume an injection is 100 dollars, this may be severely underestimating the price

Would you pay 100 dollars per hair? ok so thats 5000 hairs for 500,000 dollars, WOW WHAT A BARGAIN kind of leaves out 99.9 percent of the guys who are not google millionaires


#15

» If they can do 66 hairs per 100 injections, and 1000 injections in a 2 hour
» lasting session.
»
» Thats 660 new hair in 2 hours.
»
» 66 000 new hair in just 100 sessions.
»
» Now imagine that they surely could do better. I mean, use some expensive
» finer needle, automate the delivery (I remember they said that reasonably
» slow release was cruicial for success, so tatoo gun is not a viable option
» probably buy needle that can do 10 injections at once might be).
»
» If they could do 5 times better, then 66000 new hair in just 20 2 hour
» sessions. 2 times a month and in a year you have full head of hair.
»
» I know it is unusual from a pessimist like me, but I think it is awesome.
»
» If only it worked so good.

Wow if they could get 1000 hairs per injection and they did 1000 injections per session that would be one million hairs per session

thats what you sound like


#16

who said 66 hair per cm square isn’t a good result? 66*2(sessions)= 132 hair per cm square, a normal density of a full head of hair, just by 2 sessions

this would be a miracle, true, not good, just a miracle !


#17

» gottabelieve:
» Look man, I’m one of the nicest guys you’ll ever meet and an extreme
» optimist which is why I’m here following the news and not jumping off a
» bridge.
»
» Hanging in there, you are an annoyance. You serve no purpose other to
» bother people interested in learning. why are you here? clearly you have
» no wife, girlfriend life partner, friends or social outlet. this is your
» social scene, but you fail to understand the people of this site are not
» your friends. they are strangers trying to learn about new technologies.
» no one, i repeat, no one comes here to listen to single thing you say or
» have to say. you’re not a doctor, scientist or anyone of significance. You
» remind me of the old joke about whats better than winning a gold medal in
» the special olympics: not being the special olympics. no offense to anyone
» with developmental dissabilities obviously. so youre on a hair loss site
» posting your a$$ off talking no sense, congratulations you win a gold
» medal.
»
» so really why are you here posting? clearly this has become the only
» social scene you can belong to, and thats sad.why do tear peoples hopes
» down and make absurd predictions? the people here are not social network
» for you.
»
» you dont need to respond, you just need to go away and find some sort of
» life.
»
» There’s little reason to respond to Hanging. Nomatter the situation, every
» HM topic Hanging lends his voice to concludes in a colossal disaster.
» Consider the derogatory nature of this thread’s subject line – One
» thing you guys fail to consider – it implies he knows more than us
» before the discussion even started. Moreso, there’s little point to argue
» with someone who said “66 hairs from 100 injections is not very awe
» inspiring”. This man wouldn’t be inspired if Jesus, Mohammed, and Buddha
» came to pay him a visit.
»
»
»
» There’s another reason to ignore Hangin. Last month – before his post was
» deleted by admin – hanging said the following two things: 01) He likes to
» pick on people in the HM section when he’s bored (which happens 24hrs/day)
» 02) He literally admitted that picking on us was his hobby.
»
» But here’s the thing: 01) Anyone who occupies their entire day doing the
» same thing repeatedly voids their right to call it a hobby - it’s a
» lifestyle. 02) Hanging isn’t very good at picking on people.
»
» I submit anyone that spends their entire life doing something miserably
» (despite society’s best effort to steer them in the right direction) is a
» failure at life.
»
» .

looks like David is getting annoyed at your pitifuly crying and deleting your posts, as usual


#18

Call me nutty, but I think that it is quite astounding that they can get even a single hair to grow from injected cells. My excitement has nothing to do with aesthetics or cost, but the fact that it can be done. This is not even in the same universe as hair transplants, in which a whole organ (the follicle) is moved to a new location on the scalp.


#19

» Call me nutty, but I think that it is quite astounding that they can get
» even a single hair to grow from injected cells. My excitement has
» nothing to do with aesthetics or cost, but the fact that it can be
» done
. This is not even in the same universe as hair transplants, in
» which a whole organ (the follicle) is moved to a new location on the
» scalp.

I agree, but the real question is: how many hair are they able to grow per a single injection? this is the problem they are trying to solve I think.


#20

» Call me nutty, but I think that it is quite astounding that they can get
» even a single hair to grow from injected cells. My excitement has
» nothing to do with aesthetics or cost, but the fact that it can be
» done
. This is not even in the same universe as hair transplants, in
» which a whole organ (the follicle) is moved to a new location on the
» scalp.

too many unanswered questions

1, is the hair cosmetically acceptable
2…is it DHT resistant
3…is it terminal hair
4… will the hair grow on a slick bald scalp, as opposed to thinning hair type scalp
5…will the hair continue to grow for years
6. is the direction of growth of the hair acceptable
7. is this method superior to the hit or miss regrowth of prop or rogaine, nizoral cream etc

will the cost be prohibitive