Pay off one guy to wear a balding haircut for 6 months. It wouldn’t take too much money to do it in the USA, never mind a place like India.
I’m not saying that Dr. Nigam did this but it would be very easy to do.
I have been reading the posts about Dr. Nigam on and off since the beginning of this year. Can someone tell me what happened to the test subjects who received treatment earlier this year? Failed,no follow-up or not convincing?
in addition, What is this “3D” treatment that Dr. Nigam is offering? Is there a link?
As I said, do not muddy up the definition with BS. The only thing that does is open up the door to a load of charlatans who will claim to have the cure while showing half-assed results with fancy picture taking techniques.
The only definition of NW2 is a real NW2 hair count of approximately 75000 hairs or thereabouts.
Anything less and its NOT a NW6 to NW2 transition.
It is pure con-artistry to claim a NW2 transition and then produce an individual with a low density hair coverage and a comb over. That s.cam has been going on for years in the hair transplant industry with deceptive photo taking techniques to boot.
So stop saying 10k hair will look fine and other nonsense. A cure has to demonstrate re-generation or follicular neogenesis in which case producing a real NW2 hair density should not be a problem.
Again, please do not muddy up the criteria by which we may declare a cure. I’m not looking to get into some rambling discussion with anyone on this subject as I will not compromise on this definition.
I recall even the mighty Follica once mentioning that their regenerated hair was only about 80% of original density. Aderans never produced much regrowth at all. You may go to your grave waiting on somebody to give you 75,000 hairs back.
But I think the point you are getting at is less radical. Giving a patient the equivalent of 5000 or 6000 HT grafts is not a “full restoration.” It is no better than a good result with existing HT tech. Whatever new treatment/transplant option comes next, it needs to produce something significantly better than this (like double it) before we are going to view it as a real step forward. Getting another 25% over existing HTs would be progress but it would not be a game-changer by any stretch.
Dr. Nigam, what is the reason for doing the blood test? What do you need to find from the blood work before starting the treatment?
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by Freddie555[/postedby]
The only definition of NW2 is a real NW2 hair count of approximately 75000 hairs or thereabouts.
Anything less and its NOT a NW6 to NW2 transition.
[/quote]
Freddy there is no such thing as a real or a pseudo NW2. NW2 is NW2, and it is going to look like the picture here, some may have more density than other so it is unrealistic to hold Nigam to your so called scientific hair count for NW2.
myself2 is not suggesting that Dr. Nigam simply cut some guy’s hair to make the guy look bald. He’s suggesting that Dr. Nigam plucked out the guy’s hair to make the guy look bald…plucked out thousands of some guy’s hairs to make the guy look bald. Maybe 10’s of thousands.
can I point out that the only pictures of the guy where you see the bumps is the enlarged picture so perhaps that’s what pictures of all of our heads would look like if we enlarged the pictures with high resolution.
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by cal[/postedby]
Pay off one guy to wear a balding haircut for 6 months. It wouldn’t take too much money to do it in the USA, never mind a place like India.
I’m not saying that Dr. Nigam did this but it would be very easy to do.[/quote]
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by Freddie555[/postedby]
Again, please do not muddy up the criteria by which we may declare a cure. I’m not looking to get into some rambling discussion with anyone on this subject as I will not compromise on this definition.[/quote]
75000 hairs means a density of 300 hairs for cm2 on bald area, this is insane, basically you asking to transform a bank manager in a cat and if you don’t realize that you are insane too
As I said, do not muddy up the definition of a CURE with nonsense.
It was I who originally came up with the definition of a cure - namely verifiable proof of transforming a NW6 into NW2. Anyone claiming a CURE has to live up to the claim and the bar is set high for a REASON - namely to weed out charlatans and fancy photography and to obtain iron clad proof.
I don’t give a toss whether 10k hairs look good or bad. That is not the point and that is not NW2.
Trying to inject BS definitions of NW2 will not work on me. Those of you trying to do this are wasting your time.
Once gain, a NW2 is a person who has roughly 75K follicles on his head.
Its great that Dr. Nigam has taken up the challenge of transforming this NW6 into a NW2. In no uncertain terms, its a very bold claim of a Cure. I will patiently await the results.
Freddie i’m sorry to tell u that your scientific definition of nw2 is not 100% correct. The scientific world says that in general who has black hair has 100,000 hairs, the brown ones has 120,000 hairs and the blonde ones something like 150,000.
Moreover you seem to use the word follicle with the meaning of hair while a uf can produce up to 3 hairs.
So in my previous post i was talking about 15/20,000 uf which means up to 40,000 hairs. U really think that all the nw2 has the same density? Have u ever watched normal people? The density even in not balding people is never the same
Accurately counting 75,000 hairs on a person’s head would be an impressive in itself.
Friends/critics
Since arashi,and one more member have raised little doubt about this patient Mr J,whose pics i had posted on this thread.
I would like to start the proceudre ,on the patient,where there is no doubt about his before pics…
Hence posting few more patients photos…who will start treatment this week.
Once we agree on the first patient,who is selected to undergo transformatin…i will start the case…
I will shoot better pics…once i have the confirmation of the cases…we would like to see getting transformed…
The case below is a 60 year old man(Thane),whose son is being treated with HM at my clinic.
More images of Thane below:
http://www.drnigams.net/images/Thane/thane1.JPG
http://www.drnigams.net/images/Thane/thane2.JPG
http://www.drnigams.net/images/Thane/thane3.JPG
http://www.drnigams.net/images/Thane/thane4.JPG
http://www.drnigams.net/images/Thane/thane5.JPG
http://www.drnigams.net/images/Thane/thane6.JPG
This is another patient(din), who is 30 years old,
More images of Din below:
http://www.drnigams.net/images/din/din1.JPG
http://www.drnigams.net/images/din/din2.JPG
http://www.drnigams.net/images/din/din3.JPG
http://www.drnigams.net/images/din/din4.JPG
http://www.drnigams.net/images/din/din5.JPG
http://www.drnigams.net/images/din/din6.JPG
http://www.drnigams.net/images/din/din7.JPG
http://www.drnigams.net/images/din/din8.JPG
The 28 years old patient(Wq) below, has already undergone first session of ht plus injection of stemcells
(i have posted his before pics plus and after pics of 5 months with approx.1500 grafts plus first session of hm injections,
the before pics are of jan 2013 and after pics are of june 2013,
he is coming to clinic tmr,i will take fresh photos).
More images of WQ before:
http://www.drnigams.net/images/Wq/Before/before1.jpg
http://www.drnigams.net/images/Wq/Before/before2.jpg
http://www.drnigams.net/images/Wq/Before/before3.jpg
http://www.drnigams.net/images/Wq/Before/before4.jpg
http://www.drnigams.net/images/Wq/Before/before5.jpg
http://www.drnigams.net/images/Wq/Before/before6.jpg
http://www.drnigams.net/images/Wq/Before/before7.jpg
http://www.drnigams.net/images/Wq/Before/before8.jpg
More images of WQ after:
http://www.drnigams.net/images/Wq/After/after1.JPG
http://www.drnigams.net/images/Wq/After/after2.JPG
http://www.drnigams.net/images/Wq/After/after3.JPG
http://www.drnigams.net/images/Wq/After/after4.JPG
http://www.drnigams.net/images/Wq/After/after5.JPG
http://www.drnigams.net/images/Wq/After/after6.JPG
http://www.drnigams.net/images/Wq/After/after7.JPG
http://www.drnigams.net/images/Wq/After/after8.JPG
http://www.drnigams.net/images/Wq/After/after9.JPG
This is another patient,on whom i am doing procedure, within next 15 days…
He is a 29 years old(Mr.Sand) and getting marrried in feb 2014
We have already done his first sesion one and a half month back.
posting his before pics and 45 days after pics.
More images of Sand below:
http://www.drnigams.net/images/sand/sand1.JPG
http://www.drnigams.net/images/sand/sand2.JPG
http://www.drnigams.net/images/sand/sand3.JPG
http://www.drnigams.net/images/sand/sand4.JPG
http://www.drnigams.net/images/sand/sand5.JPG
http://www.drnigams.net/images/sand/sand6.JPG
http://www.drnigams.net/images/sand/sand7.JPG
http://www.drnigams.net/images/sand/sand8.JPG
Once we select one/two cases from the above,i will take better pics
will post, more patient pics, in next few days, so that we can choose 5 cases from atleast 10 patients…
while considering nw status,
also consider the size of the recipient and the size and density of the donor…some may not be clear nw5/6/7, but may have few hair on top of the scalp, but poor donor.Some may be nw7 but with goood donor availability.
Yes freddie,i wish to do 20000 grafts(doubling plus HM)…so that i can come closure to your criteia…
I want to select 5 patients for the challenge test…because… with megasessions you never know,some people may not complete the whole procedure,as most of them, love to do non invasive HM procedure rather than doubling, here… in mumbai.
[quote]so then are you suggesting that Dr. Nigam’s staff plucked the hairs out of the guy’s head so that it would like he’s a NW6 but that the guy is really a NW 2 or 3 if his hair hadn’t been plucked out? Is this what you’re saying? Doesn’t that really sound kind of crazy?
[postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby]
[postedby]Originally Posted by myself2[/postedby]
It does sound really crazy. Totally agreed. But if somebody expects to make multi millions out of it ? Does it still sound that crazy ?[/quote]
I think Thane would be a very suitable candidate. There is no doubt that he is a NW7 and has very poor donor density. Traditional hair transplant procedures would offer him very little and would be instantly noticeable.
I believe the best way to go about this is to restore him to the greatest extent possible in the fastest time. Thane is at the most advanced stage of a hairloss and will be a very difficult case to treat so I’m eager to see what you can do with him.
I agree Thane is the best guy for this, he is as slick bald as it can get.
Dr. Nigam, can you post all the different methods that you plan to use on the patient?
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by cal[/postedby]
I recall even the mighty Follica once mentioning that their regenerated hair was only about 80% of original density. Aderans never produced much regrowth at all. You may go to your grave waiting on somebody to give you 75,000 hairs back.
But I think the point you are getting at is less radical. Giving a patient the equivalent of 5000 or 6000 HT grafts is not a “full restoration.” It is no better than a good result with existing HT tech. Whatever new treatment/transplant option comes next, it needs to produce something significantly better than this (like double it) before we are going to view it as a real step forward. Getting another 25% over existing HTs would be progress but it would not be a game-changer by any stretch.[/quote]
I agree with this. When we start seeing results that consistently provide patients with 10,000 plus grafts, then, i think, we’ll have made a quantum leap in hairloss treatments; regradless of whether it’s a full restoration or not. 10,000+ grafts would be amazing and would provide nearly a full restoration for anyone nw4 or less. The more extreme norwoods would still be thin, but it would certainly take them out of the ass bald category.
At this point, after watching the demise of so many promising treatments, i would be thrilled to see that level of grafts made available. Even better if it can be done without hacking up the donor.
Alright Cal I just got up close to my head in the mirror and I can see I have those little bumps too. Dr. Nigam is not at my house so he did not pluck my hairs out and neither did I. Nobody has. That is just what happens with some hairs for some reason - perhaps under the skin the follicle is still trying to grow so pushes up against the skin. I don’t know. But I do know that we drive away people who want to help us with our mean-spirited insults.
Please go look at your own head up close in the mirror and you will probably see these bumps on your own head too.
Dr. Nigam you can do any of the 3 patients as far as I’m concerned. And I’m very sorry about the insults you have to put up with from some people. Please keep in mind that some of the posters here are skeptical because they have seen a lot of fake treatments by other people. I for one have great faith in your honesty.
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by cal[/postedby]
Pay off one guy to wear a balding haircut for 6 months. It wouldn’t take too much money to do it in the USA, never mind a place like India.
I’m not saying that Dr. Nigam did this but it would be very easy to do.[/quote]
I agree with this. When we start seeing results that consistently provide patients with 10,000 plus grafts, then, i think, we’ll have made a quantum leap in hairloss treatments; regradless of whether it’s a full restoration or not. 10,000+ grafts would be amazing and would provide nearly a full restoration for anyone nw4 or less. The more extreme norwoods would still be thin, but it would certainly take them out of the ass bald category.
At this point, after watching the demise of so many promising treatments, i would be thrilled to see that level of grafts made available. Even better if it can be done without hacking up the donor.
It probably wouldn’t take near 10k just to restore a NW#3-4.
Over the years I have come to think there is a phenomenon of diminishing returns at work on conventional HTs. The first couple thousand grafts go a long way but the later thousands have less and less of a cosmetic impact. I’m not talking about artistic decisions, but rather the coverage a patient gets for XXXX amount of grafts moved on their head.
You can find a few 10,000-graft HT patients out there right now. There are many in the 7000+ range. But the cosmetic gains don’t seem to reflect the numbers, generally speaking. A patient with 7500-9000 grafts doesn’t come out looking like they got 3x as much hair back as a good 2500-3000 graft patient.
The reasons are debatable. Graft survival decreasing as dense-packing goes up and/or more grafts per session, fewer and fewer several-hair grafts in the donor area to pick from . … whatever. The bottom line is that we usually see diminishing returns from more grafts as the total transplanted graft figure goes up.
I speak of 5000 or 6000 grafts as if they are the maximum with current HT tech. You might be able to get a lot more grafts than these numbers transplanted, but the ultimate cosmetic improvement probably won’t be more than double the coverage of a good 2500-3000 graft job.
That is why I talk about “10,000 grafts” being a huge step forward. Going to a clinic and paying to have 10,000 grafts done . . that is do-able. But ending up with 10,000 grafts worth of cosmetic improvement when the dust settles . . that doesn’t happen. It would be a game-changer if the average HT patient could go to a good doc and get 3x the amount of hair restored as a good 3000 graft patient.
Kindly find below pics of the patient Wq…28year old,software engineer.
We have done first session with him of approx.1500 grafts plus stemcell injection,not dp cultures,not growth factors.
He will have a procedure of 2500 doubling grafts on 23rd and 24th september…and another 2500 grafts on 28th and 29th september.
And than ,another 2500 plus 2500 grafts on day 45 and day 90.
He will receive his 2d/3d dp cultures with additional stemcell injection on 23rd september,day 45 and day 90.
He has partially responded to ,1st multiplied stemcells injection,taken 5 months back…at his donor and lower vertex…as per the patient himself,
patient , he feels his donor and lower vertex better than before…he did his first session 6 months back as on today.
Today he got his younger brother ,21 year old to enroll for HM treatment.
I WILL , BE WORKING ON HIS TRANSFORMATION TO nw1/2…AS ONE OF THE 5 CASES SELECTED for the challenge test…SINCE HE LIVES NEAR BY AND IS WILLING TO VISIT REGULARLY FOR PICS AND DOCUMENTATION.
I am also looking out for nw6/7 cases,who live near clini for the challenge test,Thane patient,i will contact tmr…who is a pure nw7.
B&A
click link below to see enlarged close up of the above pic
http://drnigams.net/images/Wq/16-9-2013/B&A/Large/3.jpg
click link below to see enlarged close up of the above pic
http://drnigams.net/images/Wq/16-9-2013/B&A/Large/4.jpg
click link below to see enlarged close up of the above pic
http://drnigams.net/images/Wq/16-9-2013/B&A/Large/5.jpg
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by cal[/postedby]
I agree with this. When we start seeing results that consistently provide patients with 10,000 plus grafts, then, i think, we’ll have made a quantum leap in hairloss treatments; regradless of whether it’s a full restoration or not. 10,000+ grafts would be amazing and would provide nearly a full restoration for anyone nw4 or less. The more extreme norwoods would still be thin, but it would certainly take them out of the ass bald category.
At this point, after watching the demise of so many promising treatments, i would be thrilled to see that level of grafts made available. Even better if it can be done without hacking up the donor.
It probably wouldn’t take near 10k just to restore a NW#3-4.
Over the years I have come to think there is a phenomenon of diminishing returns at work on conventional HTs. The first couple thousand grafts go a long way but the later thousands have less and less of a cosmetic impact. I’m not talking about artistic decisions, but rather the coverage a patient gets for XXXX amount of grafts moved on their head.
You can find a few 10,000-graft HT patients out there right now. There are many in the 7000+ range. But the cosmetic gains don’t seem to reflect the numbers, generally speaking. A patient with 7500-9000 grafts doesn’t come out looking like they got 3x as much hair back as a good 2500-3000 graft patient.
The reasons are debatable. Graft survival decreasing as dense-packing goes up and/or more grafts per session, fewer and fewer several-hair grafts in the donor area to pick from . … whatever. The bottom line is that we usually see diminishing returns from more grafts as the total transplanted graft figure goes up.
I speak of 5000 or 6000 grafts as if they are the maximum with current HT tech. You might be able to get a lot more grafts than these numbers transplanted, but the ultimate cosmetic improvement probably won’t be more than double the coverage of a good 2500-3000 graft job.
That is why I talk about “10,000 grafts” being a huge step forward. Going to a clinic and paying to have 10,000 grafts done . . that is do-able. But ending up with 10,000 grafts worth of cosmetic improvement when the dust settles . . that doesn’t happen. It would be a game-changer if the average HT patient could go to a good doc and get 3x the amount of hair restored as a good 3000 graft patient.[/quote]
Dr Nigam - I appreciate your efforts, but everyone and their mother has been complaining about before/after photos - different hair length and different lighting render them essentially meaningless.
Don’t worry,further photos of this case will be with same lights as after photos taken today,
as we have new small setup mini studio to take photos with same lights and angles…the before pics of this patient were taken 6 months back…when we did not have a fixed place to shoot like our mini studio now.
This is just the beginning of this case…
Regards,same hair length…normally patients do not agree…