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Need Help 6 procedures No Donor Left = Repair


#13

If you want to claim you invented something because you published a paper, then here is Dr. Woods’s entry about his use of body hair published in 2004 in the British Journal of Plastic Surgery, three years before you were published. Dr. Woods invented body hair transplantation as we know it today, the act of transplanting hair from the body to the scalp. He was performing body hair transplant procedures in the 1990’s, far earlier than your clinic ever picked up an FUE punch. This is an indisputable fact.

One does not have to be the inventor of something to be good at it so in the future, perhaps you can avoid making up stories and simply show your results and educate your patients.


#14

Welcome Jotronic,
You know Dr Arvind Poswal does not respond to posts of paid so called patient “mentors”.
Correct? You ‘mentor’/push/shove prospective patients to certain select doctors. Are those doctors getting uncomfortable and are the real reason behind your current post.

What you have put above is only an abstract.

Read and please show the complete article so everyone can see the fraud.

  1. Was the patient a repair patient - YES
  2. Did his scalp recipient already have transplanted scalp donor hair - YES

Got my point?!
Now go fetch, I mean politely :slight_smile: , the complete article of dear Dr Woods and compare it with Dr Arvind’s article and pictures.
I hope you know the difference between abstract and complete case report.
In fact, Dr Arvind Poswal’s STUDY (not case report) on body hair to scalp transplant was also published in The Indian Journal of Plastic Surgery way back in 2013.
Where are those studies that should have followed?


#15

This is what your website shows


#16

No, I don’t get your point. You’re making false statements, I corrected you with facts, there is nothing else to discuss. You should also reconsider your comment about Dr. Wood’s published work being fraudulent. It is incredibly rude and factually inaccurate.

Your posts show two things.

  1. You don’t know what an abstract is. In order to show the full published paper, I have to purchase it, which isn’t worth it for me because the abstract represents the summary of the paper that was published. For most reasonable and sane people, this is more than enough. The patient being a repair patient shouldn’t factor into the presentation and it certainly does not invalidate the fact that body hair was used to successfully help a patient.

  2. Your screenshot of my website discredits your point because it shows that the only person that would really benefit from this debate, Dr. Woods, is not on my website.

This website, hairsite.com, acknowledges that Dr. Woods is the inventor of BHT. The same website that you so proudly display your award from for “most cases” posted. Is Hairsite, and the rest of the hair transplant community wrong?

It is best if you continue to show your work, help patients, educate readers and stop making claims that attempt to rewrite history. No need to get personal with your “fetch” comments. I wasn’t asking Dr. Poswal to respond. If I want to talk to him, as I have many times in the past, I can.


#17

Joe,
I will address and expose your lies one line at a time.
You think abstract is everything, then there must be some posters here who understand the difference between abstract and complete article.
The abstract does not show pictures.

We have exposed the lie that “donor hair take on scalp hair characteristics.”

Dear :slight_smile: respected emporer…whatever Dr. Wood’s complete article is worth USD35/-
You can not afford this because you yourself will be exposed. Do you want us to buy it for your reading pleasure or will you now do so.


#18

Really, Joe the mentor. The least respect you should have shown is to ring up and talk to him.
But you of course work for his competitors and when things got too hot they are making you the fall guy. Do you have his phone number?


#19

The least respect you should have shown is to ring up and talk to him.

I thought you said Dr. Poswal does not respond to “mentors” but now you’re suggesting I should have called him? :slight_smile: I like Dr. Poswal and Bharti is a lovely woman, but If I felt that this was so important that I should speak with Dr. Poswal, I would, but you are making these claims so that is why I’m addressing you.

The point that you seem to miss is that you’re claiming that Dr. Poswal invented BHT. My position is that this is not true. Instead of discussing it like an adult, you’ve chosen to call me a liar (about what, I have no idea) and you’ve suggested I cannot afford to purchase a scientific paper online. Aside from being incorrect, not to mention petty, it is completely outside of the scope of this debate and is merely an attempt to avoid the truth. Please stick to the facts. And I’ll remind you, the only one of us that works for a doctor is you. I work for myself.

The contents of the paper by Dr. Woods is irrelevant. He has documented a case of body hair transplanted to the scalp. That is a fact. It was before any paper by Dr. Poswal on the same subject. This is a fact. Dr. Woods has documented cases of body hair transplantation going back to the late 90’s. This is a fact. Spencer Kobren has personally seen the patient Timetested in, if I recall, 2001. This is fact. This very website in which we are discussing this issue recognizes Dr. Woods as the inventor of BHT. This too, is fact, and proven by the screenshot I provided. Is Hairsite.com lying? I don’t think so. If you do, then there may be a bigger problem at play here.

You can insult me, you can change the subject, and you can kick and scream and threaten to hold your breath till you turn blue, but the facts remain. Dr. Ray Woods is the father of modern FUE and is the inventor of body hair transplantation as we know it today. Everything else you present that does not address this is simply an attempt to avoid the truth of this discussion. You’re wrong, admit it, and stop making a fool of yourself.


#20

The point you seem to miss is that Woods committed a fraud to attract patients much like Bazan and Gho with their hair multiplication by neither teaching other doctors (unlike Dr Arvind who trained you know which doctor from LA.) and by not putting the body hair in an isolated patch.
That is why even though it is so obvious that it is a fraud you have chosen this thread to preach
Hello, I am the old poster V.
Kindly spend USD 35/ and get the entire article instead of dillydallying around with sentiments and arrogance.

(Hope you will remember that the world’s first facial hair to scalp transplant was documented on hairsite since feb 2006 and that we are inventors of it or one day you will come up saying no even that was done by someone else.


#21

By accepting that you work as paid mentor to other doctors you proved me correct.
That is why our removing the blinds from eyes of readers is required.
So how much do you get paid per patient from the doctor list on your mentor blog? How much for this distraction and removing our posts.

There are good doctors. I openly admit that if you want to get ht done elsewhere you can go to woods, cole, umar, h&w, Heitman, Mwamba, Bisanga. None of them have you on their paylist.


#22

When people feel they must resort to insults and unrelated accusations it means that there is nothing of substance to support their position, and your response to my points is a classic example of polemic debate. Marx would be proud.

Because I am paid by several doctors that I support, none of which make the same claim of inventing body hair transplantation as Dr. Poswal does, this makes me a liar? Because I am defending a doctor that I say did in fact invent body hair transplantation (and I have zero financial ties to), this makes me a liar? Your logic is unusual. What is it exactly that I’m lying about? About Dr. Woods or something else? You’ve not made this clear, so if you’re going to call me a liar, please explain what I’m lying about and how it makes me wrong about historical fact.

The point you seem to miss is that Woods committed a fraud to attract patients much like Bazan and Gho with their hair multiplication by neither teaching other doctors (unlike Dr Arvind who trained you know which doctor from LA.) and by not putting the body hair in an isolated patch.

How does training doctors validate a claim? This makes no sense. It appears that your position is that because you placed body hair into a bald patch, that this is the only way to validate the existence of a procedure. If this is your point, then you are wrong. Is your claim of fraud because you believe that Dr. Woods did not actually transplant any body hair to the patient’s scalp or is it because you believe that none of the grafts grew? Or do you instead believe that the entire procedure was fantasy and no patient exists to begin with? I believe the real difference is that Dr. Woods wrote about his experience after the fact, while helping a patient that had no further scalp donor to repair prior work. You, however, had a patient that was no different than a lab rat in, admittedly, more formal experimental conditions. This doesn’t invalidate the experiences of Dr. Woods, nor should they.

Regarding an LA doctor that Dr. Poswal trained, I’m not aware of any… I am aware of one further South in Redondo Beach, but I don’t see what this has to do with anything.

You’re mistaken about Dr. Woods and training. He did offer training at one point. It is poorly documented, but it is a fact nonetheless.

By accepting that you work as paid mentor to other doctors you proved me correct.
That is why our removing the blinds from eyes of readers is required.

What does this prove you to be correct about? What “blinds” are you referring? Are you under the impression that you’ve revealed a big secret that no one else knew? That’s like saying that Hairsite.com has proven you correct because there is a list of doctors that pay to participate here. Remember, Hairsite.com recognizes Dr. Woods as the inventor of BHT as well. Does the Hairsite.com list of doctors make their recognition invalid? Does this make Hairsite.com a website of lies? This is only in accordance with your logic about me, so the question is fair.

So how much do you get paid per patient from the doctor list on your mentor blog? How much for this distraction and removing our posts.

A. What does this have to do with our discussion? I do not get paid per patient. I never have, not when I worked for H&W, not when I worked for Rahal, and not now while working for myself. I do not push patients to any specific doctor nor do I encourage patients to have surgery. Surgery is always the last resort.

B. How did I remove your posts? What posts? I don’t even know what this means, but you’re implying I have back end administrative privileges that allow me to delete posts at will? Are you accusing me of having undisclosed involvement with Hairsite.com? Are you truly this paranoid?

There are good doctors. I openly admit that if you want to get ht done elsewhere you can go to woods, cole, umar, h&w, Heitman, Mwamba, Bisanga. None of them have you on their paylist.

You just called Dr. Woods a fraud, but now he’s a “good doctor”? Please make up your mind. I’m also certain that if you were to ask any of the doctors you just listed, they would all tell you that Dr. Woods was the first. Dr. Mwamba and Dr. Bisanga confirmed this at a conference in Vancouver in 2016 where Dr. Bisanga presented Dr. Woods with a lifetime achievement award for creating FUE and BHT. I also attended and was witness to this presentation. Dr. Cole also gave credit in this post…

Hope you will remember that the world’s first facial hair to scalp transplant was documented on hairsite since feb 2006 and that we are inventors of it or one day you will come up saying no even that was done by someone else.

Unfortunately I cannot remember that. While Histig transplanted beard hair to the scalp in 2003, as documented by the ISHRS, it was not through the use of FUE, so technically your claim is incorrect. Using FUE punches, perhaps you are correct, but that is not the purpose of this discussion. However, the interesting part of your question revolves around your use of Hairsite.com for validation. You do not acknowledge the legitimacy of Hairsite.com giving Dr. Woods credit as the inventor of BHT and you point to your published paper as the proof that Dr. Poswal is the inventor of BHT. However, you wish to use Hairsite.com to validate your own legitimacy for the first beard to scalp transplant because it was documented here first, just like Dr. Wood’s’s case of BHT was documented here first. Either Hairsite.com’s acknowledgement is legitimate, or it is not. Which is it?

The storm of accusations you’ve made against me simply because I said you did not invent BHT is an exercise in behavioural observation for me. It’s fascinating.


#23

fascinating indeed, what 's even more fascinating is that I read this thread from the top down and still couldn’t figure out what triggered all this. It started with someone asking for repair work and ended with insults flying left and right ,as if two different threads were merged into one. :rofl::rofl:


#24

What a very very weird debate as if someone doesn’t know what the word inventor means.


#25

And what the word fraud means.
And how Jotronic nor woods are not showing the article that will clear all debate.
A simple question - Can a person who invented bht and also committed a fraud by claiming something that was not true (body hair takes on scalp hair characteristics) be called an inventor or a fraudster?

And the other fraud that Joe the mentor is making by saying he does not take any refferal fee from the doctors on his list. :slight_smile: maybe that’s why no one on this whole forum, doctors and patients alike can not afford to buy the complete atricle of Woods that costs USD 39/- only. WOW


#26

Dear :slight_smile: respected emporer…whatever Dr. Wood’s complete article is worth USD35/-
You can not afford this because you yourself will be exposed. Do you want us to buy it for your reading pleasure or will you now do so.

Wood articleWood article.PNG1339x688 54.5 KB


The Wood's article and Joe the mentor's charity work - fraud or not?
#27

@Dr_A_s_Clinic you are a doctor for crying out loud, act like one!


#29

Past patient “Top Shiny” testimonial Video | Dr. A’s Clinic


#30

Dr Arvind do you know that publishing your work in a medical journal does NOT automatically make you an inventor?


#31

Dr A, Top Shiny is a great result and you obviously do good work, you should be proud of what you have accomplished, don’t let anything secondary get the best of you. Your posts were a bit out of character lately.


#32

From the very beginning, I new there had to be a better way.
In the 1980s I saw the most horrific HT results.
I was well aware that doctors used small punches to experiment on and examine hair follicles since the early 1900s
Nothing new about that

The challenge was NOT to remove a few follicles for an experiment
The challenge was to remove individual follicuar units to create a new and less invasive natural hair transplant with minimal trauma and transcection…a transect means follicle destruction…and revolutionise the industry by eventually doing large numbers, preserving the donor …

So I started in 89 91 92 93 and realised …this aint easy… the transection rate is massive,

So, I kept the sessions small…if I got around the follicles I made 40 …max

If another patient came in, and the transections were one after the other… I stopped…charged nothing …but did no harm

Word got around …I intended to prove this…follicle by follicle…year after year

The Strip Boys were scarred…I was about to disclose , reveal and end their bloody gravy train

In 1995 I went public in an National advertisment…I called it " top up " and follicular single unit exraction …

Yep’…it was a lttle punch… but its not the size …its how you use it…guys, we all heard that one before

In 1996 it was aired on national tv, and then again in 1999.
The first bht was 1998…extensively documented. It takes years, but in 2003 BHT was published in THE BRITISH JOURNAL OF PLASTIC SURGERY
It was on Ripleys Beleive it or not in 2003
The first beard hair was 2000 on timetested
And please go through the archives… when it came to bht, I repeated, iterated and reiterated…WHAT YOU SEE IS WHAT YOU GET…it is true that body hair can increase in length on the scalp. but it is proportional from where it came from and not predicable
Now. there are good well meaning soles ares trying to rewrite history but please go through the archives and research

The next doctor in the world to try FUE was Dr Jones, Canada, late 2002. Then came Dr Cole in 2003, And Avind in 2004
I never wanted to patent FUE or BHT…I made it perfectly clear that this is bloody hard, but in the right hands …the best


#33

And I forgot to mention. In the late 1980s everyone was still doing 10mm punches. I believe it ws Dr Barry White In Melbourne , Australia, who came up with the idea to cut the punch into quarters.

Strip came along and it was Dr Bob Limmer, from San Antonio , Texas, …or was it Arizona…in 1988.who decided that when a strip was cut out, the techs should use proper desktop stereoscopes to dissect the strip.
He was the only doctor in the world to apply high power magnification.

So I called him, several times in 92, 93. 94.
I told him what I was trying to do, but when I told him the numbers I was getting, he thought it impractable, unusable and a novelty…but he did so in a very nice gentleman way

In 1995 I started to get decent numbers and great results. I called him, and suggested he try it. He was still the only strip guy using microscopes.

He wrote back to me, hand written and signed. He said he tried but the transection was way too high. Therefore he thought " genereation of follicles via strip and stereoscopic dissection was still superior "

I still have the letter…framed.

I always knew that transection could be minimised only through years of practice and developing MICRO PROPRIOCEPTIVE SKILLS via the fingertips, high power magnification and transmitted to the instrument.

Now , Drs Rassman and Bernstein saw that Dr LIMMER made a massive leap in strip surgery…or FUT…and published. They tried to take credit for what Dr Limmer originally did. I know Dr Limmer was not happy about that.

But they did the same to me in 2000. I didnt publish because those who read and published those rags…" if your missing toilet paper I can suggest some"…were terrified of FUE and wanted me out…way too much hard work…strip takes 20 minutes, punch some holes and collect 10k…overheads maybe a few hundred.
So I went to the media, and public, who are much smarter than the strip boys gave them credit for.

It wasnt easy as I was black balled from TV from 1996 to 1999…another story.

Rassman and Bernstein published in one of those self serving industry rags, in 2000, after seeing all my results in NYC and LA etc, and early internet , and tried to take credit…like they did to Dr Limmer.

And they both posted in late 2000 and 2001 on how FUE is inferior to STRIP

In 2005, In Sydney, they had the ISHRS meeting. I reluctantly attended and heard Rassman say , in front of a full auditorium, FUE is only done by a few “KANGAROOS” out here

So now, in view of all the media, TV, internet, websites, forum posts, magazines, interviews and international attention over 25 years, Dr A and his call centre minions are digging a hole.

I made it clear, that guys, and the occassional girl, ( need to be politically correct) , who had thick long strong chest hair will get the same on their heads, and there is often a length increase. But if the body hair is weak, thats whats going to grow…and if it extends a few millimetres …so what. Its will be poor coverage and ground cover at best.

Go to the archives…several doctors were trying to convince patients that leg hair will give good coverage on a bald head…I replied that its not true…unless you are a mutant hobbit…or words to that effect

Dr Ray Woods