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Natural propecia with no side effects


#1

In the past, I recall a lot of people inquiring about where to get equol supplements, because only about 30% of people produce equol when they eat soy. I notice there is a company doing studies on this stuff, which has been shown to bind DHT and prevent MBP. Unlike propecia, it does not alter the hormone levels in your body.

http://www.biolreprod.org/content/70/4/1188.abstract


#2

How would that work?

I don’t get it. A systemic method that targets the production or binding of a hormone just in the scalp skin?


#3

» In the past, I recall a lot of people inquiring about where to get equol
» supplements, because only about 30% of people produce equol when they eat
» soy. I notice there is a company doing studies on this stuff, which has
» been shown to bind DHT and prevent MBP. Unlike propecia, it does not alter
» the hormone levels in your body.
»
» http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2010-04/pn-sgs040110.php
»
» http://www.biolreprod.org/content/70/4/1188.abstract

where can I buy this stuff? I’ve been wanting to try this for a long time


#4

» In the past, I recall a lot of people inquiring about where to get equol
» supplements, because only about 30% of people produce equol when they eat
» soy. I notice there is a company doing studies on this stuff, which has
» been shown to bind DHT and prevent MBP. Unlike propecia, it does not alter
» the hormone levels in your body.
»
» http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2010-04/pn-sgs040110.php
»
» http://www.biolreprod.org/content/70/4/1188.abstract

Densiti (http://densiti.com/index.html). Are these guys legit???
Is anybody on this forum taking part in their test program?

Regards,

Down But Not Out


#5

» » In the past, I recall a lot of people inquiring about where to get equol
» » supplements, because only about 30% of people produce equol when they
» eat
» » soy. I notice there is a company doing studies on this stuff, which has
» » been shown to bind DHT and prevent MBP. Unlike propecia, it does not
» alter
» » the hormone levels in your body.
» »
» » http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2010-04/pn-sgs040110.php
» »
» » http://www.biolreprod.org/content/70/4/1188.abstract
»
»
» Densiti (http://densiti.com/index.html). Are these guys legit???
» Is anybody on this forum taking part in their test program?
»
» Regards,
»
» Down But Not Out

Alternative is to take a pill that inhibits both DHT and Estradiol naturally which also slows the immune related cascade in hairloss.

Regards
Pete


#6

» Densiti (http://densiti.com/index.html). Are these guys legit???
» Is anybody on this forum taking part in their test program?

It might help, but not everyone can produce equol no matter what they do. That’s why the S-Equol supplement represents a legitimate breakthrough. I suspect it might not be available until after the trials, but I’ve never checked into it.

Your best chance at becoming an equol producer is to switch to a vegetarian diet (supplement with B12 or you’ll become deficient), eating sea vegetables, drinking green tea, and taking a glass of organic soy milk 2x/day. Stay away from non-organic soy products, as they are often treated with hexane. Organic fermented soy is best (milk and tofu). It’s important to cut dairy products out of your diet if you try this, because they’ve been shown to inhibit equol production.

I’m going to try to find a lab that can test for equol production. I’ll post back if I find one. You never know, you might already be able to produce it.


#7

» How would that work?
»
» I don’t get it. A systemic method that targets the production or binding
» of a hormone just in the scalp skin?

It binds systemic DHT but has been shown to have little or no side affects. Asians who eat soy have a very low incidence of enlarged prostate and male pattern baldness. When they switch diets, the incidence of hair loss and enlarged prostate increases dramatically. This is thought, in large part to be due to isoflavones in Soy, some of which get converted to S-Equol. Unfortunately, not all people are equol producers. Soy has been shown to be beneficial to hair loss whether you are an equol producer or not. But the ultimate effect is seen when you produce equol along with the other beneficial aspects of soy.

I don’t profess to understand the detailed metabolic differences between propecia and S-Equol. Like many others, I would like to find something that works as well as propecia but without the side effects. I grew tons of hair with propecia but had to stop taking it and let the hair fall out due to side effects. I’m not looking to turn myself into a chick, but I wouldn’t mind turning myself into a Japanese person who is free of cancer, ages slowly, lives long, is mentally acute, has positive brain chemistry, and has a full head of hair.


#8

Systemic hormonal changes with no side effects are a pipe dream IMHO.

I’d love to find a Fin substitute as much as the next guy but I’m extremely dubious that anything systemic might ever deliver it.

As for the benefits of Soy/Equol in general, people claim no sides to these things but their example populations always strike me as being below average for androgenic traits.

I’m not buying the idea that this stuff is harmless until I see some guys on it who could survive in a minimum security prison. (Meanwhile it’s not very difficult to find a bunch of balding guys in that category, is it?)


#9

Phase I of prostate study completed successfully. Phase II set to begin.

Randomized, Double Blind, Multicenter, Placebo Controlled, Proof of Concept Trial to Assess the Efficacy and Safety of 4 Weeks Treatment With AUS 131 (S Equol) on Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia


#10

» Phase I of prostate study completed successfully. Phase II set to begin.
»
» Randomized, Double Blind, Multicenter, Placebo Controlled, Proof of
» Concept Trial to Assess the Efficacy and Safety of 4 Weeks Treatment With
» AUS 131 (S Equol) on Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia
»
» http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00962390?term=equol&rank=2

This from the company’s website:

“Animal studies have shown that AUS-131 down regulates the expression of the androgen receptor (AR). The growth of the prostate is regulated through the AR by the androgens testosterone and dihydrotestosterone. Since AUS-131 reduces the amount of the AR, growth is inhibited. This novel mechanism of action does not affect androgen levels, thus improving the quality of life for the man with prostate disorders.”

So S-equol does not bind to androgen receptor as in finasteride does…but down regulates it…I’m thinking its more like ASCJ-9.


#11

Yes but down-regging the ARs throughout the body would do just as much harm as reducing the hormone levels themselves.

The best thing I see here is the prospect of something acting on the prostate without acting on the rest of the body to that same degree. But our MPB problems aren’t in our prostates. We’re no closer to targeting the scalp skin.


#12

Here’s a patent that talks about using it topically as well as internally. I know it’s just a patent, and doesn’t necessarily mean anything. But perhaps using it topically would help some.

http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20100076071


#13

» » How would that work?
» »
» » I don’t get it. A systemic method that targets the production or
» binding
» » of a hormone just in the scalp skin?
»
» It binds systemic DHT but has been shown to have little or no side
» affects. Asians who eat soy have a very low incidence of enlarged prostate
» and male pattern baldness. When they switch diets, the incidence of hair
» loss and enlarged prostate increases dramatically. This is thought, in
» large part to be due to isoflavones in Soy, some of which get converted to
» S-Equol. Unfortunately, not all people are equol producers. Soy has been
» shown to be beneficial to hair loss whether you are an equol producer or
» not. But the ultimate effect is seen when you produce equol along with the
» other beneficial aspects of soy.
»
» I don’t profess to understand the detailed metabolic differences between
» propecia and S-Equol. Like many others, I would like to find something that
» works as well as propecia but without the side effects. I grew tons of hair
» with propecia but had to stop taking it and let the hair fall out due to
» side effects. I’m not looking to turn myself into a chick, but I wouldn’t
» mind turning myself into a Japanese person who is free of cancer, ages
» slowly, lives long, is mentally acute, has positive brain chemistry, and
» has a full head of hair.

Theres been something around for a while now which inhibits DHT and Estradiol, balances hormones and has no side effects. ie Epilobium

Regards
Pete


#14

» Theres been something around for a while now which inhibits DHT and
» Estradiol, balances hormones and has no side effects. ie Epilobium

Never heard of this before…any studies on this to prove its efficacy?

anywho…found this (http://www.epilobium.com/BPH/faq.html)

Q: Are there any side effects?
A: Yes, the only known side effect comes with the active ingredient Quercetin which may cause bloating in large doses which are not generally contained in epilobium BPH products

Thats the same ingredient in onions, I remember few people experimenting with quercetin a while ago.


#15

» » Theres been something around for a while now which inhibits DHT and
» » Estradiol, balances hormones and has no side effects. ie Epilobium
»
» Never heard of this before…any studies on this to prove its efficacy?
»
» anywho…found this
» (http://www.epilobium.com/BPH/faq.html)
»
» Q: Are there any side effects?
» A: Yes, the only known side effect comes with the active ingredient
» Quercetin
which may cause bloating in large doses which are not
» generally contained in epilobium BPH products

»
» Thats the same ingredient in onions, I remember few people experimenting
» with quercetin a while ago.

See the links:

http://www.epilobium.com/research1.html

http://www.epilobium.com/research2.html

By having a solid regime its quite easy now to slow hairloss and stimulate hairgrowth:

  1. Reduce stress / dietary stress
  2. Epilobium - inhibits 5ar and aromatase
  3. A topical to reduce, normalise immune response and stimulate hair.

Regards
Pete


#16

»
» 1) Reduce stress / dietary stress
» 2) Epilobium - inhibits 5ar and aromatase
» 3) A topical to reduce, normalise immune response and stimulate hair.
»

#2…any studies etc that prove epilobium has anti-androgenic properties?

#3…which topical are you referring to?


#17

» I’m not buying the idea that this stuff is harmless until I see some guys
» on it who could survive in a minimum security prison. (Meanwhile it’s not
» very difficult to find a bunch of balding guys in that category, is it?)

About half the male Japanese population knows martial arts and can surely whip your adrogen-toxic tail. :slight_smile:

Just joking of course. I agree systemic cures are risky. However, if you read the hormonal changes that occur with this product, you’ll find it is way safer than Propecia. In fact, I doubt it will work as well. OTOH, if you absolutely can’t take Propecia or are afraid of it, equol is a good alternative that has been shown to have many health benefits in addition to its hair promoting benefits.


#18

» »
» » 1) Reduce stress / dietary stress
» » 2) Epilobium - inhibits 5ar and aromatase
» » 3) A topical to reduce, normalise immune response and stimulate hair.
» »
»
» #2…any studies etc that prove epilobium has anti-androgenic properties?
»
» #3…which topical are you referring to?

[Ducrey B, Marston A, Gohring S, Hartmann RW, Hostettmann K. 1997. Inhibition of 5 alpha-reductase and aromatase by the ellagitannins oenothein A and oenothein B from Epilobium species. Planta Med 1997 Apr; 63(2): 111-4].Acta Physiol Pharmacol Bulg. 1991;17(4):50-2.

If you want me dig out the study let me know.

Topical wise I have my own ideas - theres nothing on the market which seems to cover alot of the bases in hairloss ie reversal.

Regards
Pete