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My understanding Follica stands


#1

My understanding is that there has been a lot of vague reporting out there in the general news media about Follica recently, including articles in the Wall Street Journal, Huffington Post, etc. which are all combining the following:

  1. A lead-in to the story saying that a company called Follica has developed something involving “skin perturbation” which may lead to a cure for baldness. The articles mention a Follica press release by the company’s CEO, Dr. William Ju.

  2. They go on to make some vague statements about tests on humans and “preclinical and clinical trials” that have already been done (we do know that Follica did some trials of the skin perturbation concept in Gemrany a few years ago (about 5 years ago?), but I’ve seen very little information about this, no data or photos, etc. But the articles we’re seeing lately just say they’ve done “clinical trials”. Furthermore the articles don’t make it clear what trials have already done, what trials might be happening now, and what trials are planned. If you read all of these articles very closely, it appears NO trials are happening right now. There is absolutely nothing in any of these articles that indicates that human clinical trials are going on right now, or even that they are imminent.

  3. Various artilces on these subjects on public relations aggregator and investor-oriented sites like Xconomy.com, all over the internet.

  4. Some of the articles mention this recent discovery by Dr. Cotsarelis of Fgf9, and how it has led to new growth in follicles, but no concrete information on how good it is, success rates, growth rates, follicle counts, photographs, etc.

Conclusions? I have my own tentative conclusiona about all of this. I think we REALLY have to read between the lines and pay just as close attention to what has NOT been said, as to what HAS been said… maybe even closer attention.

What have other forum members concluded?


#2

just remember that follica has officially stated multiple times that they do not comment on their R&D progress. Also, as Follica is not a publically listed firm in need of good coorperate image and PR, I fail to see their incentive to release misleading public announcements.


#3

I wonder if Follica needs money to do human clinical trials.


#4

I think the piece reported by Huff post was very distasteful, sounds more like pure advertising, lack of substances, lack of details, not a good sign in my opinion.

http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/forum_entry-id-122141-page-0-category-1-order-last_answer.html


#5

I don’t know.

They have been on my radar ever since about 2008. Their PR strategy and state of progress is hardly any clearer to me now than it was back then.

Everything we know about them has been conflicting. They periodically make public statement implying that they are close to a product. But they wait years between announcements. And every scrap of information they give out about their discoveries is invariably of no practical use and several years out of date. They have patented a sh*tload of different stuff (much of it seemingly unrelated) to the point where they appear to be patent trolling. Yet there is also a very clear pattern to some of their patents & research suggesting otherwise too.


#6

Follica is a loose canon, I am more interested in what Nigam is doing. At least Nigam is transparent so it takes the guesswork out of the equation.


#7

My opinion is that Follica is able to grow hair, but not in cosmetically significant or highly reliable rates yet. It’s enough to prove their concept right, but not enough to market. Just my best guess.

This FGF discovery seems to be a vital key in understanding why mice are so good at regrowing hair, but I don’t know.

Come on WikiLeaks!!


#8

Follica is too coy.


#9

Actually Follica is the opposite of a loose cannon. They’re extremely secretive. They talk like they have something that grows hair and it’s gone through clinical trials but they don’t say if it’s completed all of the necessary clinical trials. But they say it has gone through clinical trialS with an “S” so that means multiple trials and that means phase 1 and 2 are completed. But I think they completed phase 1 and 2 years ago so that means it’s in a holding pattern in-between phase 2 and phase 3.

If their phase 1 and 2 studies achieved satisfactory regrowth it seems like they would have proceeded to phase 3 already. However, they may not be proceeding to phase 3 for other reasons besides results.

I don’t understand why they release any info at all though because the info they do release is confusing people and I don’t think that is the desired effect.

Why do they say anything at all if all they are going to say is a bunch of confusing stuff???

I wish Dr. Niggam would cure hair loss so we could just get our hair back via Dr. Nigam and forget all about Follica’s poo.

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by HMorHT[/postedby]
Follica is a loose canon, I am more interested in what Nigam is doing. At least Nigam is transparent so it takes the guesswork out of the equation.[/quote]


#10

This guy claimed to get results from a crude follica treatment (lithium gel + wounding with sandpaper)

I have never heard or seen anyone else try it. He seemed to never comment on it again, but still frequented the site… kind of a bad sign. somebody should try to reach him.

If he got results in this crude of a fashion, imagine what follica could do with lazer wounding and fgf9 injections added.

“I did get some results with needling and lithium, but I have been experimenting with sandpaper and lithium and getting better results. By results, I mean obvious new terminal hairs where there were none before, within a confined spot (exactly within the precise area) and within a short timeframe. Extrapolated to the entire scalp, I believe the results could be pretty significant. Going full scale with the program requires some preparation and timing though (like if you have to go out in public, for example, after the dermabrasion). Of course, you could just listen to people like Going Cue Ball who never tried it….”

Source:

http://www.regrowth.com/hair-loss-forums/topic/any-success-stories-from-people-using-the-needling-method/


#11

You’re right that the results could be a lot better with laser wounding and fgf9 so why isn’t Follica putting it into the marketplace? They have put their treatment through multiple trials so that means they’ve completed at least phase 1 and phase 2 but I think that they got that far years ago so WTF???

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by needhairasap[/postedby]
This guy claimed to get results from a crude follica treatment (lithium gel + wounding with sandpaper)

I have never heard or seen anyone else try it. He seemed to never comment on it again, but still frequented the site… kind of a bad sign. somebody should try to reach him.

If he got results in this crude of a fashion, imagine what follica could do with lazer wounding and fgf9 injections added.

“I did get some results with needling and lithium, but I have been experimenting with sandpaper and lithium and getting better results. By results, I mean obvious new terminal hairs where there were none before, within a confined spot (exactly within the precise area) and within a short timeframe. Extrapolated to the entire scalp, I believe the results could be pretty significant. Going full scale with the program requires some preparation and timing though (like if you have to go out in public, for example, after the dermabrasion). Of course, you could just listen to people like Going Cue Ball who never tried it….”

Source:

http://www.regrowth.com/hair-loss-forums/topic/any-success-stories-from-people-using-the-needling-method/[/quote]


#12

It’s going to take a bit more than the word “trials” to convince me that Follica has a new MPB treatment which has already completed phase#2 FDA trials.

Besides, people have spent a lot of time debating whether or not Follica would even need to do that kind of trials process if they use existing drugs. Follica loves to imply that they don’t need to do as much trialing as a standard new treatment.

Laser wounding + FGF9 injections might help. Or it might not do any better than DIY lithium did. Lithium is already a potent thing to use for that deal.

The process just requires a wound of a certain depth. Using a more interesting expensive method of achieving the wound is not going to necessarily boost the hair growth any. We already suspect that multiple people have stumbled into the right wound purely by accident with sunburns. Its not a very difficult target to hit.


#13

The fact that they said their tech has already gone through clinical “tialS” with an “S” means multiple clinical trials and that means at least phase 1 and phase 2. There are 3 clinical trials (phase 1, 2, and 3) typically. Sometimes a phase 4 is done but that’s typically after the drug is approved.
Since they said clinical trials with an “S” have been completed that means that it’s a virtual certainty that they are saying that their technology has passed through at least phase 1 and phase 2, and perhaps even phase 3.

Also, while some people have surely reached the correct degree of wounding with sunburns it’s doubtful that those sunburn victims also applied fgf9 and lithium to their wounded scalps.


#14

jarjarbinx, didn’t you say you were getting a passport so that you can visit Nigam later this year? You still going to Nigam this year?


#15

[quote]The fact that they said their tech has already gone through clinical “tialS” with an “S” means multiple clinical trials and that means at least phase 1 and phase 2. There are 3 clinical trials (phase 1, 2, and 3) typically. Sometimes a phase 4 is done but that’s typically after the drug is approved.
Since they said clinical trials with an “S” have been completed that means that it’s a virtual certainty that they are saying that their technology has passed through at least phase 1 and phase 2, and perhaps even phase 3.[/quote]

Believe what you want. It’s going to take more than that little word to make me assume two rounds of FDA trials.

They could have done multiple protocols during a single stage of trials.
Or they could have been referring to foreign trials other than/in addition to FDA trials. Etc.

You are taking a very small suggestion and assuming a very large amount of progress from it. When it comes to HM research that is not very wise IMO.


#16

Dr. Nigam is working on some new cellular techniques (3d spheroids and microfollicles) for the first time and I’m waiting to see the results of these new techniques. I’m hoping these new techniques improve the results. I just want something that will do the job.


#17

That would explain all of this blowing smoke they’ve been doing of late, wouldn’t it? Or maybe they have some basic ideas but they have a few kinks to work out and that requires research funding.