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My personal observations on body hair and beard hair


#1

By themself (without any scalp hair), it would be difficult to create adequate and natural coverage on NW6 and above. I think both Dr Arvind and Dr Umar have cases where they have done so. The end result is always better when mixed with a fair amount of scalp hair.

I agree and disagree with some of the recent statements regarding the comparison of beard and body hair to scalp hair. First of all, some body hair does grow in multiples. In my personal case, I had about 45% or so of doubles or triples extracted. Where body hair falls short (so to speak) is in length. This is very true when dealing with forearm and leg hair. Your expectations for how long that hair will grow should be for it to grow exactly the same length it did in it’s original location. Quite often the hair will grow longer on the scalp than on the body, but one shouldn’t expect that.

For Beard hair, I’ve had 2 sessions that utilized beard hair. I used beard hair in my strip scars only in my last visit to Dr Arvind in December 2006. Beard hair is thicker and slightly darker. The hair grew in nicely and helped change the texture of the scar tissue somewhat. I went to Dr Umar in December of 2007 and am coming up on 5 months (hair coming in nicely). I believe I had around 1,200 beard hairs extracted with a couple hundred going into strip scars. The remaining beard hair was placed on the top of my scalp. I was going to do a session of only 500 beard hair, but opted for higher numbers after cutting samples from my strip scars and comparing it to my scalp hair. This link shows the comparison.

http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/board_entry-id-17058.html#p17058

The beard hair come in mainly singles, but some have doubles and even triples (rare, but I know I had at least one in my initial trial of 13 hairs at Dr Arvind’s place).

For me a single beard hair graft provides the same coverage (in my case fine hair) of a 2-3 hair scalp graft. It also grows at same rate (little faster I think) and length of scalp hair. It does feel slightly different to the touch of my hand, but not distinguishable to the eye. The beard hair adds noticeable volume to the hair I have in bald areas. I think it best to try and transplant hairs that are NOT grey as the darker hair is hardly discernible, but the grey hair can sometimes stand out. Sure you can dye it, but IMHO it’d be better if you didn’t have to do that. They will most likely grey at some point anyway. At my age (just turned 50), not that big a deal. BTW, I’ve always thought it nonsense when I hear people say that I just want to keep my hair until I’m 40 and then I won’t care.

Here are a couple links to examples of grey beard hair. First is a patient of Dr Umar’s and second is a patient of Dr Arvind’s. I don’t believe you notice the dark beard hairs, but your eyes are immediately drawn to the grey hair contrast.

http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/board_entry-id-28160-page-0-category-2-order-last_answer-descasc-DESC.html

http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/board_entry-id-27924.html#p27924


#2

Hey Checkingin, good post. Do you feel that your body hair is becoming softer and more natural over time? I am planning my next HT and I want to hear from veterans like yourself about bht.


#3

» Hey Checkingin, good post. Do you feel that your body hair is becoming
» softer and more natural over time? I am planning my next HT and I want to
» hear from veterans like yourself about bht.

Actually, my body hair never had a problem with being softer and natural. It’d be extremely hard for me to distinguish any body hair. The beard hair is a little easier, but not as easy as one would think. Beard hair is an excellent adder if you have some scalp and other body hair in the mix.

If using body hair, I would put two singles of leg or body hair in the same slit everywhere except hairline.


#4

» » Hey Checkingin, good post. Do you feel that your body hair is becoming
» » softer and more natural over time? I am planning my next HT and I want
» to
» » hear from veterans like yourself about bht.
»
» Actually, my body hair never had a problem with being softer and natural.
» It’d be extremely hard for me to distinguish any body hair. The beard hair
» is a little easier, but not as easy as one would think. Beard hair is an
» excellent adder if you have some scalp and other body hair in the mix.
»
» If using body hair, I would put two singles of leg or body hair in the
» same slit everywhere except hairline.

What’s next for you? Do you need to go for more sessions? Do you think you get good yield from Umar’s body hair? Rooster is going to Umar to fix his strip scar using beard hair and I might do the same depending on his results.


#5

» » » Hey Checkingin, good post. Do you feel that your body hair is
» becoming
» » » softer and more natural over time? I am planning my next HT and I
» want
» » to
» » » hear from veterans like yourself about bht.
» »
» » Actually, my body hair never had a problem with being softer and
» natural.
» » It’d be extremely hard for me to distinguish any body hair. The beard
» hair
» » is a little easier, but not as easy as one would think. Beard hair is
» an
» » excellent adder if you have some scalp and other body hair in the mix.
» »
» » If using body hair, I would put two singles of leg or body hair in the
» » same slit everywhere except hairline.
»
» What’s next for you? Do you need to go for more sessions? Do you think
» you get good yield from Umar’s body hair? Rooster is going to Umar to fix
» his strip scar using beard hair and I might do the same depending on his
» results.

Not 100% sure at this point. I might be done or I might have a little touch up done. I’m going to probably let this grow in for a while before making a decision. I’m getting good yield from Umar’s transplant. I had a mix of body, scalp and beard. I really consider beard hair in a different class from body hair as it has very unique characteristics.


#6

» Not 100% sure at this point. I might be done or I might have a little
» touch up done. I’m going to probably let this grow in for a while before
» making a decision. I’m getting good yield from Umar’s transplant. I had a
» mix of body, scalp and beard. I really consider beard hair in a different
» class from body hair as it has very unique characteristics.

Speaking of beard hair, I remember Dr. Hitzig mentioned something about using beard hair for cloning or hair multiplication purposes, does anyone have a link to that post? It has to be at least a year ago.


#7

Copied from this link in the archives:
http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=12&topic_id=3857&mesg_id=3857&page=3

Dr. Hitzig has successfully done a series of 1-for-two hair transplants on 5 paitents using their beard hairs. The beard hairs are extracted using a tweezing protocol to remove the shaft and bulb while leaving the follicle intact. Approximately 80 percent to 85 percent of the transplanted hairs grew in the scalp, and the follicles left in the donor beard region continue to generate beard hairs.

“Our experience with this technique offers promise for men wishing to improve their appearance after an earlier hair transplantation procedure but who lack the donor supply for additional treatment. Further study may also lead us to the use of beard hairs as a source for in vitro cloning of scalp donor material, and if that technique is successful, we would be able to obtain an unlimited supply of donor hair and perhaps eradicate genetic baldness,” said Dr. Hitzig.

According to Mr. Oz, the technology so far can only be used on beard hair since the surgical tweezers can NOT handle the much more smaller scalp hair, but the testining has been 95% sucesful. In addition, they’re are already testing in vitro to remove ONE single beard hair from a human and use that one hair to duplicate a series of hairs on a synthetic mantle ( artificial skin).

Check the following article for the whole story:
http://www.dermatologytimes.com/dermatologytimes/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=47883

Dr. Hitzig’s site also has a little information on this procedure:
http://www.nyhairloss.com/gsh-procedures.htm

I want to mention that based on what I gathered from this forum, Dr. Hitzig is controversial–he’s a veteran HT surgeon with a few class-action suits brought against him. He also reportedly hired a moonlighting New York City Department of Sanitation worker to be an assistant on his surgical team and allowed the guy to do more than what he’s supposed to be doing (on the patients). However, I think those things should not undermine his efforts in looking for a better way of treating hair loss.


#8

There is one more article on that.

From http://www.ishrs.org/mediacenter/pr/pr3.htm

"Auto-Cloning" of Beard Hair Used to Increase Supply of Donor Hair for Transplantation to Scalp

NEW YORK (October 16, 2003)- Beard whiskers, carefully removed, may offer an inexhaustible supply of hair for transplantation to the scalp. With proper removal technique, the continued growth of beard hair at the removal site is not compromised.

This “auto-cloning” of beard hairs may be particularly effective for balding men who have little scalp hair left for transplantation, and for persons whose scalps have been scarred by injury or burns, according to Gary Hitzig, MD, New York.

Dr. Hitzig, a physician hair restoration specialist in private practice, reported on the successful “auto-cloning” of beard hair today at the 11th Annual Meeting of the International Society of Hair Transplantation Surgery (ISHRS). The ISHRS is meeting October 15-19 at the Marriott Marquis Hotel, New York City.

The transplantation of beard whiskers to the scalp without compromising continued growth of the beard was undertaken by Dr. Hitzig following research reported by Dr. J.C.Kim, Pook University, Korea. Dr. Kim reported research showing that each human hair can theoretically be split into two, and produce two hairs from one. This requires enough “stem” cells be present in each portion to regenerate the full follicle.

Dr. Hitzig designed a study, enlisting five men, that was based on Dr. Kim’s work. Using a specially designed “tweezing” tool, Dr. Hitzig removed beard hairs from the men by extracting enough of the follicle to produce a new one when implanted, but also leaving enough of the follicle to continue growing new beard hairs at the donor site. This suggested that beard hair would not only not be depleted, but could serve as a non-depleting source of hair for future transplantation. In men who experience hair loss over most of the scalp, so much hair may be lost that little or none is left for transplantation. The lack of donor scalp hair may limit the benefits that these men could realize from transplantation. A non-depleting supply of donor hair could a substantial benefit for these men.

Dr. Hitzig chose coarse hair from the chin or sideburns for transplantation in the reported study; the coarse hair demonstrated greater vitality than finer hair after it was transplanted to the scalp. Earlier studies had shown that less coarse hair had less vitality after transplantation; patients also experienced less discomfort from plucking of hair from the chin or sideburns.

The five men in the study shared the characteristics of age (40-57 years old), having had previous hair transplants, and lack of adequate donor scalp hair for future transplants as balding progressed.

Results of the study demonstrated the potential of bear hair transplantation to the scalp, Dr. Hitzig reported. With the use of coarser chin and sideburn hair, the “take” of beard hairs transplanted to the scalp was more than 80%. Post-transplant hair counts at six months showed increased density of approximately 25 hairs per 30 hairs transplanted. Examination of beards in the five men showed no change in pre-plucked density, suggesting that the follicles left intact had continued to produce new hairs.

The transplanted beard hairs retained their coarse “chin whisker” characteristics after transplantation into the scalp. The thickness of the transplanted beard hairs provided good coverage of the scalp at the transplant site, Dr. Hitzig said.

Expanding upon successful beard hair transplantation in the five men studied, Dr. Hitzig has completed a preliminary study in which several beard hairs were transplanted into scars created by previous harvesting of donor scalp hair. Results of this preliminary study have been encouraging enough to indicate the potential of beard hair transplantation into scarred scalp, Dr. Hitzig said.

Although “auto-cloning” was used to describe Dr. Hitzig’s procedure, no actual cloning was involved. Dr. Hitzig’s process is a transfer of hair and its genetic programming to a new site, where the hair continues to replicate the appearance it had at the donor site.

The “cloning” usually reported in hair restoration studies is in vitro (laboratory dish) replication of hair follicle cells-a technique that is more correctly called tissue engineering. Varying degrees of success have been reported in studies of in vitro replication. True cloning-transfer of genetic material into a cell to replicate a “mother” cell-has not been reported for purposes of hair restoration.

The ISHRS is the world’s largest not-for-profit professional organization in the field of hair restoration surgery, with 512 physician members in 45 countries. The organization was founded in 1992 to promote the advancement of the specialty of hair restoration surgery through education, information-sharing, and observance of ethical standards.

[Hitzig GS. Auto-cloning using beard hair. Cosmetic Dermatology 2003; 16:63-69.]


#9

» Here are a couple links to examples of grey beard hair. First is a
» patient of Dr Umar’s and second is a patient of Dr Arvind’s. I don’t
» believe you notice the dark beard hairs, but your eyes are immediately
» drawn to the grey hair contrast.
»
» http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/board_entry-id-28160-page-0-category-2-order-last_answer-descasc-DESC.html
»
» http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/board_entry-id-27924.html#p27924

Great point there. The less the color difference, the better. Best wishes :slight_smile:


#10

Checkin,

Thank you for sharing your observations. I think we should hear from as many patients as possible, as it is the only way we can get an idea of the average from our perspective, since, with all due respect, your one observation cannot be said to be average, and is hardly the basis for far reaching conclusions. However it is a good start, thank you.

The doctors who perform many of these procedures would have a better sense of what is middle of the road. ( Thus far I have seen KF, Flash and the 10,000 BHT case as well as one guy that received 2000 grafts to dust his crown; all from Dr Umar all perfect examples of finished cases involving beard and body hair). And as for grey hair. I cannot say I agree with your conclusion. If the patient has grey hair in the remainder of his head I see no reason why grey beard hair would be wrong to use. The patient KF looks excellent. I think Dr Umar has shown excellent results in all the patients he has shown thus far.

However, if we hear from many patients, we can also have an idea of what is average from the patients’ point of view. For instance, you state that your beard hair is equivalent to a 2-hair head graft because your head hair is fine. I for one have a more robust head hair and in my case, 1 beard hair is certainly not equal to 2-3 of my head hair. Dr Umar’s assessment is closer to the situation in my case. Also, I have very rare beard doubles. I for one would rather that beard doubles are not transplanted to my head let alone triplets.

I would like to see an update of your surgeries. How about a before and after photo gallery of all your 3 surgeries. I had to check the archives of old to get an idea of your history. It seems you had 2 surgeries with Dr Arvind. The first surgery received mixed reviews as the result was not so clear. You seemed happy with the 2nd surgery, but I cannot say I saw photos of the final result. You had 1 surgery with Dr Umar (5months ago?). How many beard hair did Dr Umar transplant in you, and how many beard hair did Dr Arvind transplant? I think a photo update of all your surgeries with details would be most helpful.


#11

» There is one more article on that.
»
» From http://www.ishrs.org/mediacenter/pr/pr3.htm
»
»
» “Auto-Cloning” of Beard Hair Used to Increase Supply of Donor Hair for
» Transplantation to Scalp
»
» NEW YORK (October 16, 2003)- Beard whiskers, carefully removed, may offer
» an inexhaustible supply of hair for transplantation to the scalp. With
» proper removal technique, the continued growth of beard hair at the removal
» site is not compromised.
»
» This “auto-cloning” of beard hairs may be particularly effective for
» balding men who have little scalp hair left for transplantation, and for
» persons whose scalps have been scarred by injury or burns, according to
» Gary Hitzig, MD, New York.
»
» Dr. Hitzig, a physician hair restoration specialist in private practice,
» reported on the successful “auto-cloning” of beard hair today at the 11th
» Annual Meeting of the International Society of Hair Transplantation Surgery
» (ISHRS). The ISHRS is meeting October 15-19 at the Marriott Marquis Hotel,
» New York City.
»
» The transplantation of beard whiskers to the scalp without compromising
» continued growth of the beard was undertaken by Dr. Hitzig following
» research reported by Dr. J.C.Kim, Pook University, Korea. Dr. Kim reported
» research showing that each human hair can theoretically be split into two,
» and produce two hairs from one. This requires enough “stem” cells be
» present in each portion to regenerate the full follicle.
»
» Dr. Hitzig designed a study, enlisting five men, that was based on Dr.
» Kim’s work. Using a specially designed “tweezing” tool, Dr. Hitzig removed
» beard hairs from the men by extracting enough of the follicle to produce a
» new one when implanted, but also leaving enough of the follicle to continue
» growing new beard hairs at the donor site. This suggested that beard hair
» would not only not be depleted, but could serve as a non-depleting source
» of hair for future transplantation. In men who experience hair loss over
» most of the scalp, so much hair may be lost that little or none is left for
» transplantation. The lack of donor scalp hair may limit the benefits that
» these men could realize from transplantation. A non-depleting supply of
» donor hair could a substantial benefit for these men.
»
» Dr. Hitzig chose coarse hair from the chin or sideburns for
» transplantation in the reported study; the coarse hair demonstrated greater
» vitality than finer hair after it was transplanted to the scalp. Earlier
» studies had shown that less coarse hair had less vitality after
» transplantation; patients also experienced less discomfort from plucking of
» hair from the chin or sideburns.
»
» The five men in the study shared the characteristics of age (40-57 years
» old), having had previous hair transplants, and lack of adequate donor
» scalp hair for future transplants as balding progressed.
»
» Results of the study demonstrated the potential of bear hair
» transplantation to the scalp, Dr. Hitzig reported. With the use of coarser
» chin and sideburn hair, the “take” of beard hairs transplanted to the scalp
» was more than 80%. Post-transplant hair counts at six months showed
» increased density of approximately 25 hairs per 30 hairs transplanted.
» Examination of beards in the five men showed no change in pre-plucked
» density, suggesting that the follicles left intact had continued to produce
» new hairs.
»
» The transplanted beard hairs retained their coarse “chin whisker”
» characteristics after transplantation into the scalp. The thickness of the
» transplanted beard hairs provided good coverage of the scalp at the
» transplant site, Dr. Hitzig said.
»
» Expanding upon successful beard hair transplantation in the five men
» studied, Dr. Hitzig has completed a preliminary study in which several
» beard hairs were transplanted into scars created by previous harvesting of
» donor scalp hair. Results of this preliminary study have been encouraging
» enough to indicate the potential of beard hair transplantation into scarred
» scalp, Dr. Hitzig said.
»
» Although “auto-cloning” was used to describe Dr. Hitzig’s procedure, no
» actual cloning was involved. Dr. Hitzig’s process is a transfer of hair and
» its genetic programming to a new site, where the hair continues to
» replicate the appearance it had at the donor site.
»
» The “cloning” usually reported in hair restoration studies is in vitro
» (laboratory dish) replication of hair follicle cells-a technique that is
» more correctly called tissue engineering. Varying degrees of success have
» been reported in studies of in vitro replication. True cloning-transfer of
» genetic material into a cell to replicate a “mother” cell-has not been
» reported for purposes of hair restoration.
»
» The ISHRS is the world’s largest not-for-profit professional organization
» in the field of hair restoration surgery, with 512 physician members in 45
» countries. The organization was founded in 1992 to promote the advancement
» of the specialty of hair restoration surgery through education,
» information-sharing, and observance of ethical standards.
»
» [Hitzig GS. Auto-cloning using beard hair. Cosmetic Dermatology 2003;
» 16:63-69.]

Yes that’s the one, thanks Hairsite. Do you have any updates on this? This is hair multiplication guys! How come nobody talks about this?


#12

Great find! We have been saying beard hair is the most robust , well now we have more evidence to back that up.