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My guess on how to improve quality of growth


#1

I consider my experiment semi -successful. Why?

  1. I didn’t expect to rejuvenate old hairs like what I’m seeing now but it looks like I did. This was something I really didn’t think about. I guess I should have seen it coming with baccy’s results with his experiment.

  2. I didn’t expect (but rather hope) the experiment to create anything new but it did and tons of it that I can see on my bald temples. So far, it is not the quality I expected because the hairs are so minute.

I’ve been going through my old notes, mind u that I’m not a very technical person when it comes to this stuff, and saw something interesting. Somewhere in the past, I jotted down that wnt must be inhibited from days 0-10 and boosted from then forward for a period. If u don’t do this, any “new” growth u get will be very lackluster. I forget where I got this from but I do remember that the source was a good one and documented in some study. Damn, I wish I can redo the 2nd attempt because honestly, I don’t think the anti-histimine or topical tacrolimus helped my cause any further. All the results I got so far I bet is from the 1st experiment. If I’m to do this again, it wouldn’t be for months since I don’t think my scalp and especially my temples can’t take the abuse. My temples are still a little inflamed. Does anybody know any good topical wnt inhibitors. I think this might make the new growth a better quality. I’m not too worried about about the rejuvenated looking hairs and I’m thrilled about this. I’m making an estimation that my diffused scalp won’t be diffused anymore by March 2009. Just my guess

Oh, if ur reading this, u must have read benji’s post of his latest experiment. I hope to god it works out but I personally don’t think so. One 25% peels is not enough. I’ve already done that on the temple that sprouted nothing. You have to go 4-5 layers to get it going.

Things I’m pretty positive of towards getting this right:

  1. You must wound several layers, one layer peeling won’t do. I know because I’ve done it already and nothing happened.
  2. The wounding must cover a large enough area. How big? I don’t really know but I did the whole top and my bald temples.
  3. You must use topical getfitnib as the egfr inhibitor. Weaker forms of egfr won’t do unless u only want try to revive to old hairs back to life. I’ve yet to hear of anyone using a substitute egfr and having success in growing new follicles. Please someone prove me wrong as I would love to use something more easily obtainable than getfitnib.
  4. Topical, topical, topical egfr. Not counting those 2 cancer stricken patients that grew new hairs taking getfitnib eternally, no one else has done this. Maybe those 2 have been on the drug for a while. Maybe a very very small % of people will have that side effect of it developing new follicles in wanted and unwanted places, like 2 in a thousand.

Things I’m unsure of:

  1. When to start topical egfr? I started 24 hours posted wounding on both my experiments because I didn’t want to miss the so called “window”. I don’t know if doing this this early hurt, helped or of no impact on the quality I got.
  2. I’m on the bubble about anti-histimine and topical immunos. I don’t think it helped me any in my 2nd experiment but I can be wrong. Maybe this would work with what benji did in his internal route, I don’t know. But, like I said b4, his wounding is not good enough (my opinion)
  3. WNT inhibition on days 0-10 post wounding and then upregulate it thereafter. I have a feeling this might help. I’m talking about the creation of brand new follicles here. I see the quantity of new sprouts on my temple and it is very evenly coated and impressive. What’s unimpressive is the quality it. It is very light and seems like they’re on a 5 year plan to grow into anything visually significant. If I had to do it again, this is what I think may improve things.

B4 I sign off here, I’m going to say this again. I am not BS’ing here about the results I got.


#2

On the WNT issue your thoughts agree with my own. It’s funny because I was just thinking of doing a new post to revive the discussion of the issue in relation to our experiemnts.

As I recall, boosting WNT to boost the hair quality was central to a lot of the Folica information that we’ve been sifting through all year. More WNT = more/better hair. I think the only questions are the specifics of it. Topical or internal, what days, etc.

Personally I still think internal should work based on the cancer patients accidental regrowth. Not to mention Folica’s own patents covering internal meds. But then again, so far only the topical guys have regrown anything significant around here. That may be telling.

But either way this is all still just hot air until somebody regrows something real around here.

My next question is, what’s the potential to HURT regrowth with WNT boosting? I think we should really have that figured out before we jump into the pool with trying to use it in our experimentations. (Let’s figure out one variable at a time, ya know?) The big pile of data all points to early inhibition and later boosting.


#3

We don’t really know if any of our EGF inhibition techniques are having any effect or indeed if they are even getting through to the dermis. The fact is that wounding alone can create/rejuvenate follicles so we do not know whether our results are purely from the wounding. As for the wnt issue on when to inhibit and when to boost, it sort of confuses me because there is a delicate balance I suspect. If you inhibit during ‘the window’ it could destroy any chances of results. But is ‘the window’ individual to the person? And it’s highly likely to be related to the severity of injury. There’s just so many damned variables.
But I’m glad you’ve got some results Mike. It confirms my own findings and those of others. I just wish you would reconsider posting pictures although I totally understand why you don’t want to.


#4

what is the science behind why we should inhibit wnt? Did follica say anything in the patent about inhibiting wnt, i thought it was all about boosting.


#5

actually answered part of my question. here is an interesting study. i thought costerallas (sp?) article in nature was all about increasing wnt?

cal, take a look at the article below.

http://med.stanford.edu/news_releases/2007/august/aging-stem.html


#6

» We don’t really know if any of our EGF inhibition techniques are having any
» effect or indeed if they are even getting through to the dermis. The fact
» is that wounding alone can create/rejuvenate follicles so we do not know
» whether our results are purely from the wounding. As for the wnt issue on
» when to inhibit and when to boost, it sort of confuses me because there is
» a delicate balance I suspect. If you inhibit during ‘the window’ it could
» destroy any chances of results. But is ‘the window’ individual to the
» person? And it’s highly likely to be related to the severity of injury.
» There’s just so many damned variables.
» But I’m glad you’ve got some results Mike. It confirms my own findings and
» those of others. I just wish you would reconsider posting pictures although
» I totally understand why you don’t want to.

By the way, I’ve replied to your other post m8.


#7

» what is the science behind why we should inhibit wnt? Did follica say
» anything in the patent about inhibiting wnt, i thought it was all about
» boosting.

I don’t know the science behind it and probably wouldn’t understand it if somebody tried to explain it to me. I did grow a coat of brand new hairs on my temple but they are weak. But hey, not bad for first attempt and it is at least something that tells me that this can work somehow. As for wnt inhibition from days 0-10 and the wnt upregulation from days 11-??, I saw this on some chart of some study. I honestly can’t remember where but it was on-line. I also remember that if you don’t inhibit wnt the 1st 10 days, the quality will be greatly effected. There seems to be 2 schools of thought here between the topical guys and the internal guys, which I think is a good thing.


#8

» On the WNT issue your thoughts agree with my own. It’s funny because I was
» just thinking of doing a new post to revive the discussion of the issue in
» relation to our experiemnts.
»
»
» As I recall, boosting WNT to boost the hair quality was central to a lot
» of the Folica information that we’ve been sifting through all year. More
» WNT = more/better hair. I think the only questions are the specifics of
» it. Topical or internal, what days, etc.
»
»
»
» Personally I still think internal should work based on the cancer patients
» accidental regrowth. Not to mention Folica’s own patents covering internal
» meds. But then again, so far only the topical guys have regrown anything
» significant around here. That may be telling.
»
» But either way this is all still just hot air until somebody regrows
» something real around here.
»
»
»
»
» My next question is, what’s the potential to HURT regrowth with WNT
» boosting? I think we should really have that figured out before we jump
» into the pool with trying to use it in our experimentations. (Let’s figure
» out one variable at a time, ya know?) The big pile of data all points to
» early inhibition and later boosting.

Wnt inhibited from days 0-10 and the up’ed thereafter. I think wounding alone will increase wnt (someone might want to confirm this). You might want to boost wnt with topical lithium on day 11 for like a week. What do we use to inhibit wnt for the first 10 days.


#9

» We don’t really know if any of our EGF inhibition techniques are having any
» effect or indeed if they are even getting through to the dermis. The fact
» is that wounding alone can create/rejuvenate follicles so we do not know
» whether our results are purely from the wounding. As for the wnt issue on
» when to inhibit and when to boost, it sort of confuses me because there is
» a delicate balance I suspect. If you inhibit during ‘the window’ it could
» destroy any chances of results. But is ‘the window’ individual to the
» person? And it’s highly likely to be related to the severity of injury.
» There’s just so many damned variables.
» But I’m glad you’ve got some results Mike. It confirms my own findings and
» those of others. I just wish you would reconsider posting pictures although
» I totally understand why you don’t want to.

try this with getfitnib baccy. I’ll mix you up a batch and send it to you, on me. You can confirm what I say is not bullsh!t. You might want to inhibit wnt for the first 10 while on it b4 boosting it. I got to find that chart I had and post it. Let me know if u are interested. The getfitnib will get through to the dermis with my batch. I’ve been mixing these home concoctions for about 7 years now. It is too early for me to wound and try this again.


#10

i just wrote a long text and it’s all gone.
one more time …

thank you very much for these information

I think you mean this study:

we talked about it here:
http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/forum_entry-id-41569-page-2-category-1-order-last_answer.html

I wrote my conclusion here:
http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/forum_entry-id-41763-page-2-category-1-order-last_answer.html

but unfortunately there did’t seem to be much interest

yes I also think we should talk more about wnts because it seems to play a major role in this game. I don’t care that follica removed Li+ in their new patent, all the data out there suggest it is very important.

and by the way I believe the topical route is the way to go
I plan to wound myself with sandpaper and use LiCl but I don’t know when. baccy used it right from the beginning and he got results. who knows if he had gotten better results if he used it only after day 10.

@mikewalters
what exactly did you do? wounding, substances used etc.


#11

»
» Wnt inhibited from days 0-10 and the up’ed thereafter. I think wounding
» alone will increase wnt (someone might want to confirm this). You might
» want to boost wnt with topical lithium on day 11 for like a week. What do
» we use to inhibit wnt for the first 10 days.

There are plenty of things we can use which are known to inhibit wnt activity. We just do not know whether they work in practice.
Quercetin, curcumin and apple polyphenols are three ‘naturals’ that I know about. Again, topically is the way to go (if we can get it through to the dermis) but with these, I don’t suppose it can hurt to go internally too. The only thing I’m worried about by using wnt inhibition INTERNALLY is the effects lingering for too long and stretching into our ‘embryonic window’ as this would compromise follicle formation/rejuvenation.


#12

» i just wrote a long text and it’s all gone.
» one more time …
»
» thank you very much for these information
»
» I think you mean this study:
» http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2121/7/4
»
» we talked about it here:
» http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/forum_entry-id-41569-page-2-category-1-order-last_answer.html
»
» I wrote my conclusion here:
» http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/forum_entry-id-41763-page-2-category-1-order-last_answer.html
»
» but unfortunately there did’t seem to be much interest
»
» yes I also think we should talk more about wnts because it seems to play a
» major role in this game. I don’t care that follica removed Li+ in their new
» patent, all the data out there suggest it is very important.
»
» and by the way I believe the topical route is the way to go
» I plan to wound myself with sandpaper and use LiCl but I don’t know when.
» baccy used it right from the beginning and he got results. who knows if he
» had gotten better results if he used it only after day 10.
»
» @mikewalters
» what exactly did you do? wounding, substances used etc.

25% or 30% tca peel,1 rubber glove to even out tca peel on scalp, eyedropper to apply peel, masking tape to taper the hairline u want. Do at least 4 peels. Ur last attempt should leave your scalp deep red. Try to inhibit wnt for first 10 days otherwise you’ll end up with the results I got. You want to improve on it. What? … no egfr (getfitnib) in your try???


#13

» 25% or 30% tca peel,1 rubber glove to even out tca peel on scalp,
» eyedropper to apply peel, masking tape to taper the hairline u want. Do at
» least 4 peels. Ur last attempt should leave your scalp deep red. Try to
» inhibit wnt for first 10 days otherwise you’ll end up with the results I
» got. You want to improve on it. What? … no egfr (getfitnib) in your
» try???

4 TCA consecutively??? or after a few days break? Consecutively is way too much! Being able to handle 4X 30% tca peels consecutively is just impossible. Are you sure you are mixing the peel right and/or if it’s legit 30%?

Also, after a 30% TCA peel the skin peels for a few days…did that happen to you as well? I will strongly advise caution to people with 20%+ TCA peels, this stuff is supposed to be used by experienced practitioners because it could cause permanent scarring and/or pigmentation problems in the skin.


#14

» 4 TCA consecutively??? or after a few days break? Consecutively is way too
» much! Being able to handle 4X 30% tca peels consecutively is just
» impossible. Are you sure you are mixing the peel right and/or if it’s legit
» 30%?
»
» Also, after a 30% TCA peel the skin peels for a few days…did that happen
» to you as well? I will strongly advise caution to people with 20%+ TCA
» peels, this stuff is supposed to be used by experienced practitioners
» because it could cause permanent scarring and/or pigmentation problems in
» the skin.

If some people hurt themselves by doing something they have read in a forum ( i.e like this ), then it’s not very important, because sooner or later they were going to hurt themselves anyway.


#15

I think if you’re gonna try to do your whole scalp then it’s time to pay up and have a dermatologist do it with real dermabrasion. It’s not THAT much money.


#16

» » 25% or 30% tca peel,1 rubber glove to even out tca peel on scalp,
» » eyedropper to apply peel, masking tape to taper the hairline u want. Do
» at
» » least 4 peels. Ur last attempt should leave your scalp deep red. Try
» to
» » inhibit wnt for first 10 days otherwise you’ll end up with the results
» I
» » got. You want to improve on it. What? … no egfr (getfitnib) in
» your
» » try???
»
» 4 TCA consecutively??? or after a few days break? Consecutively is way too
» much! Being able to handle 4X 30% tca peels consecutively is just
» impossible. Are you sure you are mixing the peel right and/or if it’s legit
» 30%?
»
» Also, after a 30% TCA peel the skin peels for a few days…did that happen
» to you as well? I will strongly advise caution to people with 20%+ TCA
» peels, this stuff is supposed to be used by experienced practitioners
» because it could cause permanent scarring and/or pigmentation problems in
» the skin.

That’s what I did the last time and the next day I did 2 more peels on top of that because I wasn’t satisfied with the ones I did the night b4. It burned like hell the second day doing a peel on an already raw skin. You don’t need to draw blood or anything but you need to remove/damage more than 1-3 peels imho.