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MPB is related to fungus and dandruff ie why nizoral works aside from androgens


#1

Year : 2002 | Volume : 47 | Issue : 4 | Page : 224-226

Evaluation of the coincidence of male pattern baldness and pityrosporum group of fungus in Iran.

Javanbakht A, Famili S, Amirmajdi MM
Department of Dermatology, Qaem Hospital, Mashhed University of Medical Sciences, Mashhed, Iran

Correspondence Address:
Javanbakht A
Department of Dermatology, Qaem Hospital, Mashhed University of Medical Sciences, Mashhed
Iran
ABSTRACT: The aetilogy of male pattern baldness (MPB) is not clearly found yet. The present study has been designed to determine if there is a significant statistical coincidence between MPB and pityrosporum group of fungal infection. This cross-sectional study covers 50 men with the diagnosis of MPB who visited the dermatology clinic of Qaem hospital of Mashhad Medical University as the case group and 43 men with no evidence of MPB as the control group. A questionnaire was filled out for each person of the two groups and mycological sampling was done from three parts of the case group scalp (bald, balding, intact areas) and two parts of the control group scalp (vertex and parietal). All the data were analysed using the software SPSS 10.00 and Chi-square, Pearson Chi-square and Friedman tests. Results showed that there was no difference between different degrees of infection in the intact area (P0.05). Among the three parts of the case group scalp, bald area had the highest degree of infection (P0.001). The degree of infection in the bald area of the case group scalp was higher than that of the vertex area of the control group scalp (P0.001), while there was no difference between the degrees of infection in the intact area of the case group scalp and the parietal area of the control group scalp (P0.05). This study supports some previous studies that claimed that there might be coincidence between MPB and pityrosporum fungal infection.


#2

» Year : 2002 | Volume : 47 | Issue : 4 | Page : 224-226
»
» Evaluation of the coincidence of male pattern baldness and pityrosporum
» group of fungus in Iran.
»

We’re supposed to believe some BS from Iran, when every other credible doctor and scientist around the world has been saying it’s “genetically-mediated cell receptor sensitivity to DHT” for decades?

President Ahmadinejad in Iran is a nut, and he’s been funding all kinds of programs to prove that Iranian scientists are cutting-edge on the world stage. Most of it is crap… If they are drawing a causative relationship here that fungus causes MPB, this is obviously crap.

BTW, it’s not the fungus that’s causing the MPB. It’s the other way 'round. The reason fungal infections are seen in the follicles of SOME men with MPB in SOME areas of the world (like Sudan… remember Dr. Sanhouri???), is because the DHT causes a reaction in the sebaceous glands leading to more sebum production, and the fungus is an opportunistic infection that likes to feed on the sebum, because sebum is very nutritious to fungus and bacteria. (That’s why people with acne get infections on their faces.)

So they are confusing cause and effect. They look at the follicles of men with MPB and see fungus, and think the fungus is CAUSING the MPB, when it’s really the other way around… the MPB is causing (or attracting) the fungus!

As for Nizoral “working”, I don’t think anybody’s ever done a closed, double-blind study of JUST NIZORAL and come up with any seriously positive results.

Most people who take Nizoral also take anti-androgens, and when they see a positive effect, they think that Nizoral had something to do with it.

Sure, Nizoral is great for killing the fungus, but its only effect is probably allowing the anti-androgens to work better.


#3

is because the DHT causes a reaction in the sebaceous glands
» leading to more sebum production, and the fungus is an opportunistic
» infection that likes to feed on the sebum, because sebum is very
» nutritious to fungus and bacteria. (That’s why people with acne get
» infections on their faces.)
»

JTR,

Do you think that ICX’s HM (if effective, as we understand it) will reduce the increased sebum production which is prevalent among men with MPB as you describe above? (ie., get it back to the level it was at before baldness led to an increase in sebum production?)


#4

» JTR,
»
» Do you think that ICX’s HM (if effective, as we understand it) will reduce
» the increased sebum production which is prevalent among men with MPB as you
» describe above? (ie., get it back to the level it was at before baldness
» led to an increase in sebum production?)

ESP,

My guess is probably not, it will not decrease the sebum production much. The reason is because the DHT works not only on the hair follicles in MPB affected people, but also the adjoining skin. The adjoining epidermis/dermis has sebaceous glands, and those glands will probably continue to be affected subtly by DHT in people with MPB. My theory is that in MPB people, it’s not JUST the hair follicles, but the entire surrounding tissue that has greater cell receptor sensitivity. This goes along with everything I know about endocrinology and histology.

However, this can be a good thing. I’d rather have a full head of fairly oily hair, than a balding head. Sebum is a great thing on people with full heads of hair. It keeps the hair naturally shiny and lustrous.


#5

Excessive sebum production on scalp in balding men is more of an indirect cosmetic effect. Although the sebum production is affected (increased) due to dht sensitivity and/or exessive dht, the main problem is thinning or thinned out hair. All the sebum that previously had thick hair to stick to, now spreads out on the scalp, making the scalp look/feel really oily!

That is why I’m one of teh guys wishing that TRC works as a rejuvenating treatment, otherwise, all the follicles with thinning/thinned out hair will continue to produce sebum while new follicles created by neogenesis will produce their own sebum. In a possible scenario, that the new follicles also thin out or don’t cycle then the person would end up with even more oil on his scalp!

» » JTR,
» »
» » Do you think that ICX’s HM (if effective, as we understand it) will
» reduce
» » the increased sebum production which is prevalent among men with MPB as
» you
» » describe above? (ie., get it back to the level it was at before
» baldness
» » led to an increase in sebum production?)
»
» ESP,
»
» My guess is probably not, it will not decrease the sebum production much.
» The reason is because the DHT works not only on the hair follicles in MPB
» affected people, but also the adjoining skin. The adjoining
» epidermis/dermis has sebaceous glands, and those glands will probably
» continue to be affected subtly by DHT in people with MPB. My theory is
» that in MPB people, it’s not JUST the hair follicles, but the entire
» surrounding tissue that has greater cell receptor sensitivity. This goes
» along with everything I know about endocrinology and histology.
»
» However, this can be a good thing. I’d rather have a full head of fairly
» oily hair, than a balding head. Sebum is a great thing on people with
» full heads of hair. It keeps the hair naturally shiny and lustrous.


#6

n/t = no text


#7

n/t


#8

http://www.jdsjournal.com/article/PIIS0923181106002490/journalimage?img=PIIS0923181106002490.gr1.lrg.jpg&fig=fig1&kwhquery=null&issn=0923-1811&locator=gr1

Ketoconazole (nizoral’s active ingredient) cream pics therin link…

Id’ post the study, but this site wont allow it.

Ketoconazole, nizoral’s active ingredient, is an internal anti-androgen that inhibits androgen synthesis and has some affinity for the human androgen receptor. In a six month test, it shrunk the sebaceous gland a little bit and reduced sebum excretions by about 19 percent on avearge.

This is probably due to some receptor blockage. Theoretically if Nizoral is left on the scalp for a minute or two, it might have an oppurtunity to penetrate further in the dermis.

Hair weights and hair counts were slightly up with nizoral usage. Nizoral was about as effective as 2-percent minoxidil used once a day or just one percent minoxidil in regards to hair count and weight. Ive seen two studies on this, but cant link either one.

Wait a minute…one is here:

study:

C. Piérard-Franchimont, V. Goffin, F. Henry, I. Uhoda, C. Braham, G. E. Piérard.

Nudging hair shedding by antidandruff shampoos. A comparison of 1% ketoconazole, 1% piroctone olamine and 1% zinc pyrithione formulations.

International Journal of Cosmetic Science Volume 24, Issue 5, Page 249-256, Oct 2002

Synopsis

Hair shedding and hair thinning have been reported to be affected by dandruff and seborrhoeic dermatitis. The present study was conducted in 150 men presenting with telogen effluvium related to androgenic alopecia associated with dandruff. They were randomly allocated to three groups receiving each one of the three shampoos in the market containing either 1% ketoconazole (KTZ), 1% piroctone olamine (PTO) or 1% zinc pyrithione (ZPT). Shampoos had to be used 2-3 times a week for 6 months. Hair shedding during shampoo was evaluated semiquantitatively. Hair density on the vertex was evaluated on photographs using a Dermaphot. Trichograms were used for determining the anagen hair percentage and the mean proximal hair shaft diameter using computerized image analysis. The sebum excretion rate (SER, g cm2 h1) was also measured using a Sebumeter®.
The three treatments cleared pruritus and dandruff rapidly. At end point, hair density was unchanged, although hair shedding was decreased (KTZ: -17.3%, PTO: -16.5%, ZPT: -10.1%) and the anagen hair percentage was increased (KTZ: 4.9%, PTO: 7.9%, ZPT: 6.8%). The effect on the mean hair shaft diameter was contrasted between the three groups of volunteers (KTZ: 5.4%, PTO: 7.7%, ZPT: -2.2%). In conclusion, telogen effluvium was controlled by KTZ, PTO and ZPT shampoos at 1% concentration. In addition, KTZ and PTO increased the mean hair shaft thickness while discretely decreasing the sebum output at the skin surface.

From the full study:

Conclusion

The present study comparing 1% KTZ, 1% PTO and 1% ZPT shampoos has demonstrated that these products have some other benefits in addition to their reported antidandruff effect. The data show that these shampoos have a beneficial effect on the anagen/ telogen ratio, by increasing the anagen hair percentage in subjects with dandruff. This results in a reduced hair shedding. In addition, the data show that 1% KTZ and 1% PTO, but not 1% ZPT, produce a beneficial effect on scalp seborrhoea and hair shaft diameter. The reason for such opposite effect is unknown. Finally, the data show that scalp seborrhoea is inversely correlated with hair thickness. The virtue of such a finding is its simplicity. However, the results cannot be taken at face value. There may remain debate whether reducing sebum excess on the scalp may lead to thicker hair, and whether increasing scalp seborrhoea may be accompanied by a reduction in the hair shaft diameter


#9

Upshot: it’s a mycostatic agent with some anti-androgen properties.

My point is that even if Nizoral, or anything else, kills 100% of the fungus on your head, your MPB will not stop, because the fungus isn’t causing the MPB.


#10

Thanks for the info, guys. IMHO, an appropriate amount of sebum on thick-shafted hair can make the hair look great, as JTR describes, but excess sebum can look pretty grangy–especially on guys with fine hair.

If Nizoral does in fact shrink the sebacious gland after extended use, and thereby reduce the sebum output, this would seem a big help toward reducing the untoward effect of extra sebacious glands being produced along with neogenesis. I’ve always had slightly oily hair (at least by the end of the day), so I intend to start a Nizoral regimen in anticipation of HM. Also, I thought I had read somewhere that newly sprouted hairs might actually choke out the sebacious glands to some extent, thereby reducing sebum output that way. Any thoughts?

I’m hopeful that an overactive sebacious gland is an indicator of responsiveness to rejuvination of the associated hair follicle (as opposed to neogenesis). Similarly, if HM is a combination of neo and rejuv, it’d be nice if the neo occurred where rejuv doesn’t work (areas that have been bald for many years). I’d rather have greasy hair I can wash and treat with Nizoral than none.


#11

ESP,

Nizoral is a drug that is universally used as a “mycostatic”, or killer of fungi and related “mycelial infections”, by doctors. It is not known or used as an anti-androgen, and its anti-androgen effects, if any, are not widely described. (The only time I’ve seen anything about that was the article someone posted here that indicated it MIGHT have anti-androgen effects – and this one study is highly anecdotal.)


#12

JTR the key ingredient in Nizoral is known to be an antiandrogen, how powerful, I am not sure, but it is known to be an antiandrogen.


#13

» JTR the key ingredient in Nizoral is known to be an antiandrogen, how
» powerful, I am not sure, but it is known to be an antiandrogen.

OK, I didn’t know that, thanks. What I do know though is that it’s primarily prescribed by doctors to fight fungal infections.

What it might be doing therapeutically in people with MPB and enlarged sebaceous glands is also that, by killing the fungus you remove the fungus’ inflammatory agents, and thus the glands shrink.

This is a “cause and effect” situation, though – like a “chicken or egg” puzzle.

Those who think the fungus is CAUSING the MPB are wrong. The fungus is a secondary EFFECT of having MPB. First because fungus is attracted to sebum. People with MPB tend to have increased sebum due to DHT stimulation of the sebum glands. Also, I think that it’s easier for fungal spores to take root on the head where there’s no hair for them to get trapped in.

So, if you have a bald/balding head, in an environment full of fungal spores in the air, then you’ll probably get a microscopic fungal infection in the skin and pores of your scalp for two reasons: (1) the increased sebum from DHT exposure which attracts fungus and (2) the lack of a hair barrier.

In addition to killing the fungus, Nizoral reduces the sebaceous glands’ size and activity.

To many people, this might all LOOK like the fungus is causing the MPB, but if you look at it carefully, none of this indicates that. The DHT and DHT sensitivity came first, then the MPB, then the fungus.


#14

I’ve been using T-Gel for the past several months to combat minor dermatitis that I developed about a year ago. I use it twice a week and it has pretty much eliminated the dermatitis, but I haven’t noticed any decrease in sebum. Will Nizoral be more effective at reducing sebum?


#15

ESP,

It might be effective to some extent, but a moderate amount of a Retin-A cream might work better. Retin-A is fat soluble, so too much of it shouldn’t be used. In any event, you should talk to a dermatologist to get a more definitive answer.


#16

This is a fascinating discussion because I have been suffering from excessive sebum secretion for several months now.I was told by a doc to use Nizoral Shampoo 2% to reduce the oiliness but after 2 months of use it has done nothing to reduce the oil.


#17

JTR

I never posted that Fungus is the cuase of MPB,

The reason i posted the above is becuase Nizoral works so well becuase it has a dual mode of action !

  1. it suppresses the androgen receptors in the scalp

  2. It kills the fungus that causes inflammation on the scalp.

by the way i posted this in the wrong forum , it was supposed to be in the topcials section

» This is a fascinating discussion because I have been suffering from
» excessive sebum secretion for several months now.I was told by a doc to
» use Nizoral Shampoo 2% to reduce the oiliness but after 2 months of use it
» has done nothing to reduce the oil.


#18

Jk1,

True, you never said fungus was the cause of MPB. But the Iranian article sure implied that. Look at the first two sentences in the abstract:

“The aetilogy [sic] of male pattern baldness (MPB) is not clearly found yet. The present study has been designed to determine if there is a significant statistical coincidence between MPB and pityrosporum group of fungal infection.”

That implies that their study supports the idea that the aetiology (British spelling of “etiology”; and they did not even get the British spelling right) of MPB is fungus.


#19

Not to flame the discussion but the fact is that we just DON’T KNOW if fungus is not part of the problem.

Just because its not proven doesn’t mean its not possible!

I’ve read this DHT vs SomethingElse posts way too many times and one thing all the DHT supporters fail to consider is that DHT IS NOT THE ONLY cause. There is something else to it that we just don’t know yet. If DHT was the issue then drugs like finasteride/dutas etc should solve the hair loss issue but its proven that these drugs don’t work for everyone! so there are other factors that cause balding, maybe different factors in different people (read men) lead to MPB? i.e. fungus, dht, inflammation etc etc We just don’t know for sure.

Look at acne, it used to be classified as just acne, now its classified in many different kinds and treatment for each is different…so a condition that apparently looks the same in people has different treatments!

Same with stomach ulcers…it was an understood belief in medical community that they were caused by stress, spicy foods etc, so if you went in for treatment those were your only options i.e. stress relief, non-spicy foods etc. It turned out ulcers in stomach were actually caused by a certain bacteria whereas stress, spicy foods etc only made the condition worse. Hairloss and DHT could be in a simliar ballpark, maybe DHT just makes the condition worse or speeds up the process???

So yes, maybe the iranians are wrong but the fact is that the scientists with billions of dollars in funding don’t know exact cause of this problem either! So we should at least keep our minds open to anything thats new & sounds plausible.


#20

GOAT i 1000% agree with your reasoning.

» Not to flame the discussion but the fact is that we just DON’T KNOW if
» fungus is not part of the problem.
»
» Just because its not proven doesn’t mean its not possible!
»
» I’ve read this DHT vs SomethingElse posts way too many times and one thing
» all the DHT supporters fail to consider is that DHT IS NOT THE ONLY cause.
» There is something else to it that we just don’t know yet. If DHT was the
» issue then drugs like finasteride/dutas etc should solve the hair loss
» issue but its proven that these drugs don’t work for everyone! so there
» are other factors that cause balding, maybe different factors in different
» people (read men) lead to MPB? i.e. fungus, dht, inflammation etc etc We
» just don’t know for sure.
»
» Look at acne, it used to be classified as just acne, now its classified in
» many different kinds and treatment for each is different…so a condition
» that apparently looks the same in people has different treatments!
»
» Same with stomach ulcers…it was an understood belief in medical
» community that they were caused by stress, spicy foods etc, so if you went
» in for treatment those were your only options i.e. stress relief, non-spicy
» foods etc. It turned out ulcers in stomach were actually caused by a
» certain bacteria whereas stress, spicy foods etc only made the condition
» worse. Hairloss and DHT could be in a simliar ballpark, maybe DHT just
» makes the condition worse or speeds up the process???
»
» So yes, maybe the iranians are wrong but the fact is that the scientists
» with billions of dollars in funding don’t know exact cause of this problem
» either! So we should at least keep our minds open to anything thats new &
» sounds plausible.