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Lithium orotate and milk thistle topicals


#1

hi, just a few quick questions about using lithium orotate and milk thistle as topicals. this is in relation to the diy folica procedure

  1. what dosage of lithium orotate are people applying and how many applications daily?

  2. probably more for baccy, but would like to hear others too. what dosage of milk thistle would be required to ensure at least some egf inhibition, and how many times daily?

  3. How have people gone about applying these things topically? is it enough to dissolve them in water and rub in? or is a little assistance needed?

any information would be greatly appreciated.


#2

» hi, just a few quick questions about using lithium orotate and milk thistle
» as topicals. this is in relation to the diy folica procedure
»
» 1. what dosage of lithium orotate are people applying and how many
» applications daily?
»
» 2. probably more for baccy, but would like to hear others too. what dosage
» of milk thistle would be required to ensure at least some egf inhibition,
» and how many times daily?
»
» 3. How have people gone about applying these things topically? is it
» enough to dissolve them in water and rub in? or is a little assistance
» needed?
»
» any information would be greatly appreciated.

Try to play around different% of these:

ppg
alcohol (everclear- the highest % you can find)
dmso
distilled water

these are the basic 4 for me when I make some topical. There are other things you can use and it it all depends what you want to dissolve in it. This is a better question for the topicals section. I think for lithium orotate you need to dissolve it in dmso first and then add ppg, water, alcohol – that’s the way I would do it. The more ppg you have in there, the longer it stays on. The more alcohol you have in there, the faster it dries up. Personally, the way I gauge it is when my scalp stays moist for at least an hour.


#3

» » hi, just a few quick questions about using lithium orotate and milk
» thistle
» » as topicals. this is in relation to the diy folica procedure
» »
» » 1. what dosage of lithium orotate are people applying and how many
» » applications daily?
» »
» » 2. probably more for baccy, but would like to hear others too. what
» dosage
» » of milk thistle would be required to ensure at least some egf
» inhibition,
» » and how many times daily?
» »
» » 3. How have people gone about applying these things topically? is it
» » enough to dissolve them in water and rub in? or is a little assistance
» » needed?
» »
» » any information would be greatly appreciated.
»
» Try to play around different% of these:
»
» ppg
» alcohol (everclear- the highest % you can find)
» dmso
» distilled water
»
» these are the basic 4 for me when I make some topical. There are other
» things you can use and it it all depends what you want to dissolve in it.
» This is a better question for the topicals section. I think for lithium
» orotate you need to dissolve it in dmso first and then add ppg, water,
» alcohol – that’s the way I would do it. The more ppg you have in there,
» the longer it stays on. The more alcohol you have in there, the faster it
» dries up. Personally, the way I gauge it is when my scalp stays moist for
» at least an hour.

I thought about posting in the topical section, but with it being a folica related question about dosages people are using, i thought here would be better.

I am also after infomation on how people make topicals, especially involving lithium, or milk thistle - perhaps i shouldve seperated the questions. I am after the simplest, cleanest way of making a topical, using as few chemicals as possible, and what sort of ratio’s are effective.

About lithium orotate needing to be dissolved in DMSO - i had heard that it wasnt water soluble, but didnt realise DMSO HAD to be used. I would if possible like to stay away from DMSO. something about it makes me uneasy.

is it going to be easier to just crush the tablets and mix them into an existing cream? (say a retinoid or similar) or doesnt it work like that?


#4

» » » hi, just a few quick questions about using lithium orotate and milk
» » thistle
» » » as topicals. this is in relation to the diy folica procedure
» » »
» » » 1. what dosage of lithium orotate are people applying and how many
» » » applications daily?
» » »
» » » 2. probably more for baccy, but would like to hear others too. what
» » dosage
» » » of milk thistle would be required to ensure at least some egf
» » inhibition,
» » » and how many times daily?
» » »
» » » 3. How have people gone about applying these things topically? is it
» » » enough to dissolve them in water and rub in? or is a little
» assistance
» » » needed?
» » »
» » » any information would be greatly appreciated.
» »
» » Try to play around different% of these:
» »
» » ppg
» » alcohol (everclear- the highest % you can find)
» » dmso
» » distilled water
» »
» » these are the basic 4 for me when I make some topical. There are other
» » things you can use and it it all depends what you want to dissolve in
» it.
» » This is a better question for the topicals section. I think for
» lithium
» » orotate you need to dissolve it in dmso first and then add ppg, water,
» » alcohol – that’s the way I would do it. The more ppg you have in
» there,
» » the longer it stays on. The more alcohol you have in there, the faster
» it
» » dries up. Personally, the way I gauge it is when my scalp stays moist
» for
» » at least an hour.
»
» I thought about posting in the topical section, but with it being a folica
» related question about dosages people are using, i thought here would be
» better.
»
» I am also after infomation on how people make topicals, especially
» involving lithium, or milk thistle - perhaps i shouldve seperated the
» questions. I am after the simplest, cleanest way of making a topical, using
» as few chemicals as possible, and what sort of ratio’s are effective.
»
» About lithium orotate needing to be dissolved in DMSO - i had heard that
» it wasnt water soluble, but didnt realise DMSO HAD to be used. I would if
» possible like to stay away from DMSO. something about it makes me uneasy.
»
» is it going to be easier to just crush the tablets and mix them into an
» existing cream? (say a retinoid or similar) or doesnt it work like that?

I don’t like dmso either but I think I read somewhere where it is soluable in it. It makes my scalp feel like a grease pit. The only concern I would have is what your dissolving dmso in – lithium orotate, you can take as a supplement and can get it at some health food stores so I wouldn’t be too concern about that. I wouldn’t use a high concentration of it though. I would really really try for getfitnib instead of milk-thistle and see if it is more effective. Remember baccy already tried what you’re thinking of.


#5

» I don’t like dmso either but I think I read somewhere where it is soluable
» in it. It makes my scalp feel like a grease pit. The only concern I would
» have is what your dissolving dmso in – lithium orotate, you can take as a
» supplement and can get it at some health food stores so I wouldn’t be too
» concern about that. I wouldn’t use a high concentration of it though. I
» would really really try for getfitnib instead of milk-thistle and see if it
» is more effective. Remember baccy already tried what you’re thinking of.

gefitnib and the other anti-cancer drugs are firmly off the menu for me. Milk thistle and Genistein (from soy protien i believe) are the 2 that are top of my list for egf inhibition. Even if it required a megadose + taking some orally i would still see it as preferable to getfitnib. I just cant justify the risk, or the cost. Besides, i use milk thistle tabs already that are 80% Silymarin, the active ingredient, so would feel more comftable trying that first.

what i really need to find out are some opinions on dosages, and how to get them to be abosrbed topically. I’ve never attempted to make a topical, and am trying to find out as much as possible before making a decision on wether proceding would be a good idea


#6

» gefitnib and the other anti-cancer drugs are firmly off the menu for me.
» Milk thistle and Genistein (from soy protien i believe) are the 2 that are
» top of my list for egf inhibition. Even if it required a megadose + taking
» some orally i would still see it as preferable to getfitnib. I just cant
» justify the risk, or the cost.

side effects are because of the egf inhibition, not because they are cancer drugs, your body can’t distinguish between a drug and a “megadose” of a “natural” product, if the “natural” product works actually as an inhibitor, because if it doesn’t … why to take it anyway ?


#7

» 1. what dosage of lithium orotate are people applying and how many
» applications daily?
»
» 2. probably more for baccy, but would like to hear others too. what dosage
» of milk thistle would be required to ensure at least some egf inhibition,
» and how many times daily?
»
» 3. How have people gone about applying these things topically? is it
» enough to dissolve them in water and rub in? or is a little assistance
» needed?
»
» any information would be greatly appreciated.

Here’s what I’ve been using and planning to use.
I’d be interested in hearing any advice
on modifications, too. I’m still typing so I’m
guessing there is a pretty good chance that
my efforts to keep things safe so far have
been successful :slight_smile:

I’d be concerned about not increasing the DMSO
or Lithium compound concentrations much. I’ve
read that DMSO is very good absorption enhancer
and that it can increase the absorption of other
topicals you may be using, ingredients in
shampoos, and other environmental compounds you
may get exposed to, etc. Also I expect significant
systemic absorption of the Lithium is to be avoided.
I think it can cause liver problems and probably
other less obvious psychological effects as well.
I would do some research on these things to make
sure you are confortable about what levels of
exposure would have insignificant systemic effects.
I wouldn’t take these compounds orally (maybe if
you are using the lithium orotate you could feel
comfortable with the regular supplement dosage). The
milk-thistle extract probably can’t hurt to supplement
orally, since that’s what it’s sold for in the
first place, too.

Originally I just used just topical application
of the milk thistle extract directly from the
1000 mg gelcap (after piercing it and using some of
the contents) followed by a few drops of a WNT
promoting solution of 2% LiCl, 5% DMSO in distilled
water, applied with a glass dropper. I was mixing
this in a small sample vial and applying a couple of
times daily. The milk thistle extract was a brown,
oily fluid with traces of solid residue. The solution
was a clear liquid which was similar to a common 5%
minoxidil solution. After the first couple of weeks
I stopped the application of the milk-thistle extract
and just continued with the solution for a couple of
weeks. This is the method I’ve used so far and
appear to be seeing some positive results with the
light sanding wound.

Later I made up the following 2 solutions for possible
future use, which I labeled EGFR- and WNT+. The EGFR-
solution is intended to inhibit EGFr and promote WNT
for the first couple of weeks. The WNT+ solution is
intended to be used after that for a few weeks.

EGFR-

2% LiCl, 5% DMS0, contents of 25 1000 mg milk-thistle
extract caplets, all mixed into a solvent made
up of a 50/50 mixture of 5% rogaine and distilled
water. This turns out to be a yellowish, milky
solution which can be visible on the scalp until
massaged in. I made up 60 ml and used a 60 ml
minoxidil container for storage. I’m intending
to use about 1/2 to 1 ml of the stuff a couple of
times daily depending on the size of the area I’m
testing with.

WNT+

(same as above but without the milk thistle)
2% LiCl, 5% DMSO all mixed into a solvent made
up of a 50/50 mixture of 5% rogaine and distilled
water. This turns out to be a clear solution which
seems to behave pretty much the same way as 5%
minoxidil. I also made up 60 ml of this and used a
60 ml minoxidil container for storage. I’m intending
also use about 1/2 to 1 ml of the stuff a couple
of times daily depending on the size of the area
I’m testing with.


#8

BTW, if you mix LiCL in DMSO or DMSO in water, it’s good
to go slow and be aware that the solvation is a pretty
exothermic process. I’m not sure if going too quick
would result in extreme heat but it can get pretty warm.
Depending on the container you use this might be an issue.


#9

» BTW, if you mix LiCL in DMSO or DMSO in water, it’s good
» to go slow and be aware that the solvation is a pretty
» exothermic process. I’m not sure if going too quick
» would result in extreme heat but it can get pretty warm.
» Depending on the container you use this might be an issue.

Is DMSO required to use lithium orotate? DMSO seems to be a little tricky to get here in the UK. what are the options?


#10

» » BTW, if you mix LiCL in DMSO or DMSO in water, it’s good
» » to go slow and be aware that the solvation is a pretty
» » exothermic process. I’m not sure if going too quick
» » would result in extreme heat but it can get pretty warm.
» » Depending on the container you use this might be an issue.
»
» Is DMSO required to use lithium orotate? DMSO seems to be a little tricky
» to get here in the UK. what are the options?


#11

» » » BTW, if you mix LiCL in DMSO or DMSO in water, it’s good
» » » to go slow and be aware that the solvation is a pretty
» » » exothermic process. I’m not sure if going too quick
» » » would result in extreme heat but it can get pretty warm.
» » » Depending on the container you use this might be an issue.
» »
» » Is DMSO required to use lithium orotate? DMSO seems to be a little
» tricky
» » to get here in the UK. what are the options?
»
»
» http://www.freewebs.com/immortalhair/topicals.htm

thanks. looks like my fears may be unfounded and DMSO is the way to go. However, i have yet to find a place in the UK that i can buy DMSO or lithium orotate. :frowning: I dont fancy paying the extra cost of having it imported from the US


#12

» » » » BTW, if you mix LiCL in DMSO or DMSO in water, it’s good
» » » » to go slow and be aware that the solvation is a pretty
» » » » exothermic process. I’m not sure if going too quick
» » » » would result in extreme heat but it can get pretty warm.
» » » » Depending on the container you use this might be an issue.
» » »
» » » Is DMSO required to use lithium orotate? DMSO seems to be a little
» » tricky
» » » to get here in the UK. what are the options?
» »
» »
» » http://www.freewebs.com/immortalhair/topicals.htm
»
» thanks. looks like my fears may be unfounded and DMSO is the way to go.
» However, i have yet to find a place in the UK that i can buy DMSO or
» lithium orotate. :frowning: I dont fancy paying the extra cost of having it
» imported from the US

1 bottle of dmso go a long way when making topicals because you wouldn’t use that much. Good luck


#13

» » » » » BTW, if you mix LiCL in DMSO or DMSO in water, it’s good
» » » » » to go slow and be aware that the solvation is a pretty
» » » » » exothermic process. I’m not sure if going too quick
» » » » » would result in extreme heat but it can get pretty warm.
» » » » » Depending on the container you use this might be an issue.
» » » »
» » » » Is DMSO required to use lithium orotate? DMSO seems to be a little
» » » tricky
» » » » to get here in the UK. what are the options?
» » »
» » »
» » » http://www.freewebs.com/immortalhair/topicals.htm
» »
» » thanks. looks like my fears may be unfounded and DMSO is the way to go.
» » However, i have yet to find a place in the UK that i can buy DMSO or
» » lithium orotate. :frowning: I dont fancy paying the extra cost of having it
» » imported from the US
»
» 1 bottle of dmso go a long way when making topicals because you wouldn’t
» use that much. Good luck

problem is the $30 import charge i’ll have to pay. then same again for the lithium orotate. :frowning:


#14

Just be aware everyone not to use too much DMSO. You will stink to high heaven and not be aware of it unless someone has the courage to tell you.