dr nigam is the reason your not seeing results in some patients with HM due to the degree of fibrosis in the follicle, have you seen fibrosis? do you belive in it? is it able to be seen with a certain technologies? what do others think too.
GWT,
There has to be another pathway to AGA…than DHT alone…as we understand
- ANTI DHT therapy has limited success in hair regrowth and is used for prevention…So there has to be other pathways reponsible for damage to hair follicle.
2)Microinflammation of hair follicle (which is different from acute inflammation)is already being discussed in many scientific papers…
Mast cell released histamine,interleukines1 and 6,prostaglandins of different types,role of local scalp bacterial infection to trigger microinflammation to kick start antigen reaction around and in hair follicle…is also being studied…Oxidative stress related free radical damage,neuronal sympathetic damage directly to stemcell niche,vasoconstriction, secondary to smoke and oxidative stress…all ddefinitely play significant role in the pathogenesis of AGA…
3)The DHT receptor and subsequent biochemical destructive pathway…in AGA predisposed patients.till now no receptors for dht or pgd2 are found at cell membranes of stemcells of hair follicle.
My new approach for patients would be…to reduce dht at scalp,reduce mast cell,pgd2and interleukin levels at scalp…two months before taking treatment and continue next two months after treatment in therapeutic(not maintainance dose),such products are available for topical and oral use,most of them with FDA clearance as off label use,and few are new products…in development stage.
As pointed earlier, if i9 had movable photon microscope at my clinic…the only imaging technique to see stemcells in vivo including clear vision of telogen or fibrosed follicles…with surviving stemcells…so that we can inject directly(like how you treat fibrosed cysts…by incision and drainage).
We have just recently started taking double the time ,by injecting the stemcells and dp cells directly into visible with high magnification tool ,worn by the doctor…(such high magnification gives a lot of strain to implanters eye…)
Another experiment…i will do next month…that is just plucking the hair…not with any needle or punch…like eyebrow plucking…and than inject stemcells after implanting the plucked hair…as even if some structural support of follilce…is given to stemcells/dp cells …it may trigger the normal physiological process of cross talk between the stemcells and dp cells.
Do you remember ,i did a small patch test of plucked hair …and implantation plus stemcells and dp cells and growth factors…and the result is encouraging…next week,i will analyze the final data…
I do believe…that if we give even a part of plucked hair…or pieces of hair…with atleast dermal sheath,or dp or matrix…injections of stemcells and dp culture can give results in upto 90% cases as against…pure HM inj as on today…
I will suggest shortly…as per my understanding…a daily medical regime to prevent MPB/and or regrow hair…
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by GoneWithTheHair[/postedby]
dr nigam is the reason your not seeing results in some patients with HM due to the degree of fibrosis in the follicle, have you seen fibrosis? do you belive in it? is it able to be seen with a certain technologies? what do others think too.[/quote]
Thanks for the information. I’ve suffered from an extremely bad anxiety disorder for quite a few years and my hair has completely thinned out all over really bad I look like a nw5 or worse. I’m assuming its aga along with the inflammation of stress but haven’t been given a firm diagnosis. I have very small minniturised hair in the almost bald spots so its not completely slick and my temples are very receeded. I’m not sure how much is stress related and how much is aga. I’ve just started a course of antidepressant as a last resort (as I know they can make hair loss worse) but I think the very bad anxiety is a factor maybe with increased inflammation pgd2? Anyway I’m just using nizoral now with no other treatments so I’m very interested in your injections as I think they might be able to help me. Look forward to hearing your topical regime too as that may help too. Keep up the good work.
Kindly mail me your mail id at dr.rahul1970@gmail.com
I think you are from australia…i will provide you the telephone numaber/mail
of a centre in australia…which would be of great help for your anxiety disorder…
Serious Anxiety disorder ,means …in this process, your sympathetic nerve stimulation is also over active…This anxiety disorder need to be managed first…before you think about fixing your hair problem…
Ofcourse your serious anxiety disorder will lead to hairloss.
The role of nerve signals(sympathetic), innervated at stemcell niche…at the bulge of the follicle.
When an intelligent gardner…see’s drying leaves on a plant…he focuses his attention to the ROOT…NOURISHES IT…
Works somewhere else…to get result somewhere else…
CHEER UP !..DARKNESS IS NOTHING BUT ABSENT OF LIGHT…
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by GoneWithTheHair[/postedby]
Thanks for the information. I’ve suffered from an extremely bad anxiety disorder for quite a few years and my hair has completely thinned out all over really bad I look like a nw5 or worse. I’m assuming its aga along with the inflammation of stress but haven’t been given a firm diagnosis. I have very small minniturised hair in the almost bald spots so its not completely slick and my temples are very receeded. I’m not sure how much is stress related and how much is aga. I’ve just started a course of antidepressant as a last resort (as I know they can make hair loss worse) but I think the very bad anxiety is a factor maybe with increased inflammation pgd2? Anyway I’m just using nizoral now with no other treatments so I’m very interested in your injections as I think they might be able to help me. Look forward to hearing your topical regime too as that may help too. Keep up the good work.[/quote]
Dr Nigam you mentioned you were interested in a private forum for posters who were interested in experimentation. In case you are still interested.
One such forum is www . stopaga . com. If you apply under your current screenname, they will approve you.
I do not know how useful it will be for you, but I suppose it’s worth investigating.
Dr Nigam. I don’t think you ever addressed the other thread where you asked for our input on the matter. But I guess I will add more of my thoughts here.
It does seem a topical would be helpful. DHT reduction and inflammation reduction. I haven’t seen a study that discusses the cause of the inflammation. The theory I have is either its due to bacteria in the sebaceous duct (accelerated by DHT, like acne), or exogenous factors like chlorine, fluoride, UV rays. Most of the exogenous factors can be remedied with super oxide dismutase topical, if its not too late. Internal factors can probably be remedied with DHT topicals. Internal intake of super foods, especially medicinal mushrooms can lower system wide inflammation also.
However I don’t see how this can actually solve the issue. Would not a needle or punch going into a vellus follicle clear the fibrous tissue? Why not try to punch a vellus follicle and inject your serum into the punched area? It’s shown the the DP cells have DNA damage, do you think supplementing them with growth factors will somehow undamage them??? At your level of expertise I would think the focus would be on removing the DNA damaged cells and replacing them. Cell proliferation is obviously an issue, which has been shown to be directly related to telomere length. If exogenous damage has severely limited telomere length in the cells within hair follicles, how are you going to address this???
Please address my questions Dr. Nigam.
I don’t think you asked a coherent question…a tad aggressive.
I don’t understand the question about cause for inflammation. In MPB, we know that immune cells surround the HF bulge, which could be a cause of inflammation. Furthermore, PGD2 could trigger inflammation.
That being said, how do you know that fibrosis is really a barrier to hair regeneration? It’s been posted on this forum before that vellus scalp xenografts grow hair when implanted to SCID mice, and fibrosis has not been a problem. Furthermore, we have examples of the gefitinib patient who suddenly grew hair on long time bald scalp.
I don’t believe growth factors are there to “repair” DNA damage, rather it is to induce DP cell proliferation as per my current understanding.
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I also do not believe that growth factors are there to repair DNA damage. I think that growth factors are there to cause cell proliferation and possibly to also cause precursor cells to morph into progenitor cells.
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I also do not believe that fibrosis is very relevant.
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by KO[/postedby]
I don’t think you asked a coherent question…a tad aggressive.
I don’t understand the question about cause for inflammation. In MPB, we know that immune cells surround the HF bulge, which could be a cause of inflammation. Furthermore, PGD2 could trigger inflammation.
That being said, how do you know that fibrosis is really a barrier to hair regeneration? It’s been posted on this forum before that vellus scalp xenografts grow hair when implanted to SCID mice, and fibrosis has not been a problem. Furthermore, we have examples of the gefitinib patient who suddenly grew hair on long time bald scalp.
I don’t believe growth factors are there to “repair” DNA damage, rather it is to induce DP cell proliferation as per my current understanding.[/quote]
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by KO[/postedby]
I don’t think you asked a coherent question…a tad aggressive.
I don’t understand the question about cause for inflammation. In MPB, we know that immune cells surround the HF bulge, which could be a cause of inflammation. Furthermore, PGD2 could trigger inflammation.[/quote]
First, I am not being agressive. Dr Nigam said he was going to respond to the post I referenced in a post on BaldTruth. I am urging him to reply.
Second, What you are describing is not the cause of inflammation, its the chemical response of your immune system that brings forth inflammation. What antigen is causing the response? That’s the question. If someone has an allergy to peanuts, you don’t say the cause is immune cells or PGD2, its peanuts. Or maybe its that people with MPB have a mild auto-immune disease. No studies have really shed light on the matter that I have found.
Let’s not forget that scientists/doctors have centuries of experience with weakened and totally destroyed immune systems. It does not even slow or halt the ongoing MPB, let alone start reversing anything.
Any combination of immune suppression, scalp wounds, medications being taken at the same time, etc . . you name it, the medical world has seen it before.
Youngin,KO…will respond to your query…occupied with TOM’S case…will revert , in a day or two…
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by KO[/postedby]
I don’t think you asked a coherent question…a tad aggressive.
I don’t understand the question about cause for inflammation. In MPB, we know that immune cells surround the HF bulge, which could be a cause of inflammation. Furthermore, PGD2 could trigger inflammation.
[postedby]Originally Posted by youngn[/postedby]
First, I am not being agressive. Dr Nigam said he was going to respond to the post I referenced in a post on BaldTruth. I am urging him to reply.
Second, What you are describing is not the cause of inflammation, its the chemical response of your immune system that brings forth inflammation. What antigen is causing the response? That’s the question. If someone has an allergy to peanuts, you don’t say the cause is immune cells or PGD2, its peanuts. Or maybe its that people with MPB have a mild auto-immune disease. No studies have really shed light on the matter that I have found.[/quote]
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by cal[/postedby]
Let’s not forget that scientists/doctors have centuries of experience with weakened and totally destroyed immune systems. It does not even slow or halt the ongoing MPB, let alone start reversing anything.
Any combination of immune suppression, scalp wounds, medications being taken at the same time, etc . . you name it, the medical world has seen it before.[/quote]
That is incorrect. Cyclosporine has been shown to regrow hair in several people. And that’s exactly what it is, an immunosuppressant.
Not reliably at all. That’s the same reason we don’t pour gefitinib on our heads.
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by KO[/postedby]
Not reliably at all. That’s the same reason we don’t pour gefitinib on our heads.[/quote] Reliable? You mean for everyone? Of course it’s not, what is? There are studies backing its effects on hair growth though. It does work.
Might be of interest to you Dr. Nigam.
Photos of monozygotic (identical) twins.
One twin got on dutasteride shortly after noticing his hairloss, the other twin did nothing. The results are after 5 years.
Monozygotic twins share identical DNA. This means in theory they are genetically programmed to go bald at the same rate. This is the best controlled experiment.
http://www.twinshairloss.com/hair-loss-gallery.htm
The balding twin has since started taking dutasteride & even had a hair transplant. But the difference between the two is still as stark as ever.
This highlights the importance of getting on dutasteride as soon as possible. Once you lose your hair, its gone forever.
researchers are not even considering cyclosporine to treat hair loss.
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by KO[/postedby]
Not reliably at all. That’s the same reason we don’t pour gefitinib on our heads.[/quote]
Hair researchers and doctors have known about cyclosporine’s very limited hair growth benefits for decades but they’re not interested in it as a candidate for the treatment of MPB. It doesn’t work sufficiently enough to be taken seriously.
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by KO[/postedby]
Not reliably at all. That’s the same reason we don’t pour gefitinib on our heads.
[postedby]Originally Posted by youngn[/postedby] Reliable? You mean for everyone? Of course it’s not, what is? There are studies backing its effects on hair growth though. It does work.[/quote]
why do you constantly repeat your exact same statements in multiple posts? Wouldn’t one post regarding cyclosporine have been sufficient?
[quote]researchers are not even considering cyclosporine to treat hair loss.
[postedby]Originally Posted by KO[/postedby]
Not reliably at all. That’s the same reason we don’t pour gefitinib on our heads.
[postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby][/quote]
[quote]why do you constantly repeat your exact same statements in multiple posts? Wouldn\\'t one post regarding cyclosporine have been sufficient?
researchers are not even considering cyclosporine to treat hair loss.
[postedby]Originally Posted by KO[/postedby]
Not reliably at all. That\\'s the same reason we don\\'t pour gefitinib on our heads.
[postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby]
[postedby]Originally Posted by hairman2[/postedby][/quote]
Ya, no $hit… this Jajar is annoying as hell. My response was never to imply that cyclosporine works for everyone. No one will ever consider prescribing it for hair loss because of the overwhelming negative effects it can have on your body. Cal said:
…which is not an accurate statement. Immuno-suppresants HAVE been shown to reverse some hair loss in some people. Well enough that the medical community deemed it useful enough to study:
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Why do you constantly ask me this same question? Wouldn’t it be sufficient to ask me this question one time?
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I do NOT “constantly” repeat the exact same statements. Sometimes I do repeat myself but sometimes I do not. Hence, it’s erroneous to say I do it “constantly.”
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The reason I repeated myself this time is that I wanted to reply to both posters, but on other occassions when I repeated myself it may have been for different reasons.
[quote]why do you constantly repeat your exact same statements in multiple posts? Wouldn’t one post regarding cyclosporine have been sufficient?
researchers are not even considering cyclosporine to treat hair loss.
[postedby]Originally Posted by KO[/postedby]
Not reliably at all. That’s the same reason we don’t pour gefitinib on our heads.
[postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby]
[postedby]Originally Posted by hairman2[/postedby][/quote]