ICX has every commercial motive to show good news, but they show inconclusive and somewhat discouraging news.
Folica has every commercial motive to show bad news, but their patents betray some pretty conclusive/good news.
» ICX has every commercial motive to show good news, but they show
» inconclusive and somewhat discouraging news.
»
»
» Folica has every commercial motive to show bad news, but their patents
» betray some pretty conclusive/good news.
I have to see a good news from follica yet. They have not even tried it on a human.
Balding human scalp is much tougher environment than some human skin graft on an immuno suppresed mice.
Gimme immunosupression and I’ll grow some hair as well! Thats pretty old news. We did not need Follica to know this.
» Do u think they will throw away 6/7 years of hard work ?? They’ve known
» for long that phase III is not required and have planned for it.
Dr. Kemp in his last interview said that phase-III is required, and they are looking for a partner to proceed with phase-III. He didn’t even mention anything about commercialization in a country with less restrictions.
But give ICX an immunosuppressed mouse with a human skin graft on its back, and chances are they’ll probably still grow nothing at all.
» But give ICX an immunosuppressed mouse with a human skin graft on its back,
» and chances are they’ll probably still grow nothing at all.
I seriously doubt so. They are not frauders. You can be sure they tested it in mice and it grew good hair there. In fact there are even pre ICX papers that describe exactly that. It works in mice. The problem is, that it always works only in mice.
BTW we have seen that it somehow worked in human as well. One of the pictures they released shows quite remarkable regrowth and thickening of the hair.
» » ICX has every commercial motive to show good news, but they show
» » inconclusive and somewhat discouraging news.
» »
» »
» » Folica has every commercial motive to show bad news, but their patents
» » betray some pretty conclusive/good news.
»
» I have to see a good news from follica yet. They have not even tried it on
» a human.
»
» Balding human scalp is much tougher environment than some human skin graft
» on an immuno suppresed mice.
»
» Gimme immunosupression and I’ll grow some hair as well! Thats pretty old
» news. We did not need Follica to know this.
I doubt you would. Pretty much everything to do with immunosupressing drugs and hair growth has been shown to be attributable to an aspect of the drug that has nothing to do with its immunosupressive abilities. That line of thought is somewhat outmoded.
hh
» » » ICX has every commercial motive to show good news, but they show
» » » inconclusive and somewhat discouraging news.
» » »
» » »
» » » Folica has every commercial motive to show bad news, but their
» patents
» » » betray some pretty conclusive/good news.
» »
» » I have to see a good news from follica yet. They have not even tried it
» on
» » a human.
» »
» » Balding human scalp is much tougher environment than some human skin
» graft
» » on an immuno suppresed mice.
» »
» » Gimme immunosupression and I’ll grow some hair as well! Thats pretty
» old
» » news. We did not need Follica to know this.
»
» I doubt you would. Pretty much everything to do with immunosupressing
» drugs and hair growth has been shown to be attributable to an aspect of the
» drug that has nothing to do with its immunosupressive abilities. That line
» of thought is somewhat outmoded.
» hh
Besides even in your wildest immunosupressed dreams you wouldnt grow NEW hair follicles. We did need follica to know that this was possible. Which they have shown on human scalp skin.
hh
There is more evidence that immuno suppresion in mice grows hair like crazy and thus any experiments involving this mean very little to the expected outcome on an average mpb head. For example the balding follicle experiments, where all it needs to be done to regrow the follicle to thick hair, is to take it and put it onto this immuno suppresed mice.
On top of your head it does not grow anything visible, on the mice its thich hair.
New or old it does not matter. The point is that mpb scalp has proven to be way more hostile environment then the mice grafts.
Until someone replicates it in mpb scalp with a good consistency, I have no reason to start celebrating. All previous treatments failed because of this simple thing. IE Worked on mice, failed on mpb head.
By the way Debris, I think you misinterpreted my comment that ICX wouldn’t grow new hairs on mice back there.
I was pointing out that the mouse skin grafts didn’t HAVE any follicles on them before the Folica experiments were done on them.
I was saying that with ICX-TRC, I really doubt the DP cell injections alone would have caused anything cosmetically significant to grow on the skin graft “blanks.” I’m not calling ICX’s project fraudulent, I’m just calling it pretty ineffective at generating new follicles.
As for the immunosuppression, we’ll know soon one way or the other.
For my money, the Gentifib cancer patient case and the well-known minor regrowth effects of wounding are enough to make me think it will probably work.
» » But give ICX an immunosuppressed mouse with a human skin graft on its
» back,
» » and chances are they’ll probably still grow nothing at all.
»
» I seriously doubt so. They are not frauders. You can be sure they tested
» it in mice and it grew good hair there. In fact there are even pre ICX
» papers that describe exactly that. It works in mice. The problem is, that
» it always works only in mice.
»
» BTW we have seen that it somehow worked in human as well. One of the
» pictures they released shows quite remarkable regrowth and thickening of
» the hair.
Dude this stuff works…and it works really well…like NW1 capabilites…they cant release any info out…its business…HT industry would get destroyed.think about…let these guys do their jobs…once they get partnership with HT companies and all the tricks are fixed…then watch by 2010 we will 2 new competitors out…Intercytex Vs Follica…every company needs a competitor…
» By the way Debris, I think you misinterpreted my comment that ICX wouldn’t
» grow new hairs on mice back there.
»
»
» I was pointing out that the mouse skin grafts didn’t HAVE any follicles on
» them before the Folica experiments were done on them.
»
» I was saying that with ICX-TRC, I really doubt the DP cell injections
» alone would have caused anything cosmetically significant to grow on the
» skin graft “blanks.” I’m not calling ICX’s project fraudulent, I’m just
» calling it pretty ineffective at generating new follicles.
»
»
»
»
»
» As for the immunosuppression, we’ll know soon one way or the other.
»
» For my money, the Gentifib cancer patient case and the well-known minor
» regrowth effects of wounding are enough to make me think it will probably
» work.
EXACTLY!!!
Any experiment that involves mice is clearly not proving that it will grow on a mpb head.
On the other hand, that gefinitib guy makes me think that the gefinitib + wounding, really could work on a mpb head.
Personally I give it less then 20% that anyone will replicate the gefinitib guy’s success before 2 years from now on. Still worth trying. I’m interested in obtaining the drug myself as well.
Also fairly biggest chance is now. The first few guys are cruicial. If they grow some good coverage, we are cured soon. If they don’t, then we are back to endless waiting and experiments may take a damn while so better be prepared not to give up and not to let your mood to swing.
For the short term the lithium wounding is closed case. At least for me. The best what ppl report is some half vellous half terminal hair. They hope it will improve over time. But because I did end my wounding experiments ages ago, and thus I know they grow half terminal hair for me no matter how many times I redo them over the area, I just do not think that lithium is going to be any better than just the old needling experiments. It either is lithium + something else as well, or something else (EGF inhibitor) on its own is the key. Of course everyone is different, so please feeel free to try lithium 10 times before you give up.
My test area were temples, the best I got was when the semi terminal hair grew more then 1 cm long (that was last winter), since then they faded back a bit, now they are growing again longer. They basically are vellous hair that has pigment, so its pigmented a bit longer then usual, but still thin and vellous hair. Again, I did bring it here ages ago, no one listened. In my opinion the wounding itself is really working a bit. Not too get us excited though. Temples are pretty damn hard to regrow even vellous hair. From this point of view the wounding is success and I admit It may work even a bit better at the back of your head.
What is interesting though is that this thin hair in my temples has survived without wounding for more then a year already. They were on their best the last winter, since then I did loads of experiments and though the rest of my hair has greatly thickened, the temples suffered. The wounding hair is still there though.
I have superb digital camera I could take pics. I don’t want to do it because it will just put you off 
They would be visible, but really far from anything useful. When other guys post their lithium images, I expect to see the same and please do not bash the images when you see them. If you expect that we will find a procedure that grows thick coverage in few weeks then you are a bit naive. It will take a lot of time and odds are that we’ll fail.
If I’m wrong here about what we are going to see from the lithium bandwagon I may reconsider lithium. But for now due to my personal experience with wounding that delivered pretty much the same results (at least from what I read it looks that they describe something very familiar to me) I’m after gefinitib only.
PS: growing hair in an immunosupressed mice does not prove anything really. ICX grew thick hair in immunosupressed mice as well. Don’t you remember the old photographs? Some guys here were arguing its human scalp, some were saying its a photo of someones hand, and most of us said its mice. It was a mice and it had nice thick bulb of ICX hair on it.