Independent study proves donor regrowth 5 years ago

» "But I noticed, that he already learned his lessons (in general) from the
» past … "
»
» Well, I am not so sure about that, but if he has we will get a lot of
» progress in the next few months - we’ll see.

Gerard Joling is an extremely happy customer and is all over Dutch television extolling the virtues of HST. Let’s hope he is the rule and not the exception. I’m keeping in mind patients like Syrup got the earlier less consistent procedure that moved only a few hundred grafts. Dr. Gho has had many years since then to realize patients’ desires are quite different from the desires of a researcher in the initial stages of pioneering a new technique.

» I thought Gho had come up with something NEW on his procedure - if it is
» still the same old stuff then maybe it is not exciting as I thought because
» I think it is accepted by most that the Syrup result was terrible and we
» have had very little in the way of positive feedback for Gho over the
» years. Even Hairsite cannot vouch for donor regeneration.

Come on. Now you are just being difficult for the sake of being difficult. Syrup has pretty much stated that the entire game is rigged and doesn’t have anything good to say about any of it. After 20 HT procedures, I can’t blame him a bit. He’s pretty much seen it all and been ran through the entire wringer and lived to tell about it. He understands all too well the end game of this industry is whether or not you have enough donor grafts to cosmetically fix anything that might occur along the way. And that is what I’m here to discuss.

The fact is HT, is an inconsistent technique, and every surgeon has had his nightmare case. IMO, Syrup’s result from Gho looked horrific. However, I’ve seen similar horrifying one-off results from several “world-class” HT surgeons. This is especially true when developing new skills in an emerging technique. One surgeon whose work is frequently posted in the HT section and is highly admired had the worst BHT outcome I’ve ever seen. It was early in his adopting the technique, and he tried to plant the grafts too close. It caused some kind of permanent shockloss, which was highly unfortunate, but that’s the danger of getting the newer techniques we should all keep in mind. It’s best to let them mature a while before rushing out to get them. This particular surgeon learned the hard way not to practice extreme dense-packing, because what works on most patients is not necessarily safe for all patients.

What I took away from Syrup’s case, from my memory of a long time ago, is that Gho offered a second procedure to fix the problem for free, but Syrup wanted $ compensation. I don’t know of a single clinic that will monetarily compensate a patent who is unhappy with his results. Most clinics out there will rarely even offer a free procedure. If I were Gho, I would have offered to fix it for free (which is what he offered), and so would you.

The second thing I took away was that I was shocked that either Gho or Syrup believed the few hundred grafts Syrup agreed to have moved were going to make much of a difference. I put this foul 100% on Gho. Managing patient expectations is one of the most important aspects of HT surgery. Patients should not be expected to foresee what the outcome is going to be. They need to be educated what the outcome will be so they can make an informed decision when choosing to spend a significant amount of money.

My observation from those days was that Gho didn’t appear to fully understand his patients’ desires for extreme density. He was focused too hard on getting the extracted hair to grow in both the donor and recipient. While 2 grafts for 1 is an amazing accomplishment, one should never lose sight of the end goal, which is to give patients the appearance of never having suffered hairloss in the first place.

After seeing Gerard Joling, I believe Gho fully understands this. Joling has an extremely dense HT, which was something Gho stated in the past was unnecessary. Apparently, these days, he believes otherwise.

And about this being “the same old technique”, it is not the same old technique. It offers way more consistent donor regrowth, way more FU’s moved per day, and way denser recipient placement. This is a potential cure. IMO, to get there though, it needs to proliferate through other clinics in order to realize its full potential. No one person can best develop in a vacuum free of others ideas and revelations, no matter how smart he might be.

I’m not here saying good things about Gho’s research because I want to see his clinics fill up. I’m here because I want other clinics to understand the importance of this development and to lend a hand in further developing this technique to the point where baldness is a choice. I want it to proliferate through other clinics so it becomes as fully understood and disclosed as possible. I do this for selfish reasons. I want to choose whether to be bald or not, and I want to see others benefit from having the same choice. I want as many advancements in this technique to take place as possible, so that the price comes down and the results go up.

» » Indeed, there were several Gho patients and none of them was happy.
» » Hairsite himself tested FM, but never returned to Gho for more.
» »
»
» Can you name the “several” patients who were unhappy? I did a search of
» our archives and couldn’t find any besides Syrup. There was indeed another
» Gho clinic’s patient who was unhappy, but he was treated by Dr. Genne, not
» by Dr. Gho.
»
» The founder of HairSite did go to Dr. Gho for treatment and never returned
» for more. Can you quote the link where he said the reason he did not go
» back for more was because he was unhappy with the treatment?

As I recall, there were no other patients than Syrup that were displeased with Dr. Gho, but there were a few other patients that were displeased with their outcome with other surgeons that the poster could be getting confused with Dr. Gho.

From my memory, the founder of hairsite posted in a sworn statement he saw convincing proof during his visit to the Gho Clinic that HM was real. It’s important to keep in mind, his procedure with Gho only involved something like 250 grafts and was during the extremely early development period of Gho’s procedure when he could not move very many grafts per day. The main downfall with the old procedure had nothing to do with the donor site and everything to do with the low number of grafts that could be moved and the resulting sparse placement of the grafts into the recipient area. Resolving this issue is only part of what makes the newer procedure promising.

“Come on. Now you are just being difficult for the sake of being difficult.”

I am genuinely not trying to be difficult, why would I want Gho’s procedure to not work ? Besides, even if we have disagreements about the importance of previous unhappy posters, it all becomes irrelevant if he can deliver now - can you explain to me why he hasn’t done something like the process I described in my last post to silence the doubters ? Obviously he may want to produce his own more heavily documented process, that one I suggested only had 30 seconds of thought involved after all. Why is it so difficult to do that ???

Joling is still quite thin in the crown and will need more grafts if he wishes coverage in that area. His donor will take up to a year to heal. His frontal region where the grafts were placed is looking quite a bit better than Syrup’s result IMO. I believe he had some sparse grafts already in this region from former strip surgery. I don’t expect that Gho can get this kind of result in a single surgery. According to his website, it takes him 2 surgeries to get 50 grafts/cm^2. I think this thick dense result can be thought of as a second pass.

Joling appears to be quite happy with the result, claims to have gotten donor regrowth, and seems quite fond of Dr. Gho. This is the face and character of a man who got an outstanding result and in no way resembles the face of a disgruntled patient.

Still in the stubble stage:

All grown out:

Hey James, those before pics are actually before ANY surgery by Dr. Gho was done. On his website, those pictures correspond to the initial consultation that Joling had at HSI. Just so everyone is aware.

» Hey James, those before pics are actually before ANY surgery by Dr. Gho was
» done. On his website, those pictures correspond to the initial consultation
» that Joling had at HSI. Just so everyone is aware.

Shooter:

Edit: I think I misunderstood your post. Are you saying Joling’s did not have previous HT prior to Gho? I’m certain he had previous surgery, because he has a big strip scar on the back of his head. So you are just clarifying that his previous surgeries were not with Dr. Gho? By second pass, I just mean that Gho can only do 35 grafts/cm^2 in a single pass, and it looks to me like Joling’s previous strip probably added to the density.

I think the photos posted by JB are “after” photos.
Before Gho, Joling had already had 2 or 3 strip procedures.
So he already had hair from those procedures, an the front line and on the crown.
Gho added more hair. I think Gho moved 1500 grafts (confirmation needed).
So, it would be interesting to see good “before” pictures, to see how much coverage did Joling had before Gho’s procedure.
Anyway, in this photo we see that there was considerable density at the hairline before Gho. so, the good cosmetic result is not just Gho’s merit, but also previous surgeon’s merit.

»

Shooter, why do you think the photos JB has posted (Joling shaking hands with Gho) are “before”?

» » Hey James, those before pics are actually before ANY surgery by Dr. Gho
» was
» » done. On his website, those pictures correspond to the initial
» consultation
» » that Joling had at HSI. Just so everyone is aware.
»
» Shooter:
»
» I’m not sure I understand what you are saying. Are you saying the photos I
» posted as after photos are actually before photos? It looks to me like
» there are a second set of before pics, and the pics I posted are his after
» photos, because the hair is not as dense as the photos I posted. Are you
» sure these are before photos?
»
» I’m under the impression, Joling had the procedure in November, 2009. The
» caption on the pictures I posted says, “To the clinic: Episode 6 of
» December 19, 2009”
»
» There are several other videos of TV episodes on the website that show
» Joling with the same level of stubble growth in December 2009 talking about
» having had the procedure performed. Until further notice, I believe the
» photos I posted are of Joling’s followup consultation with Gho.
»
» This is the before picture. The hair is thin, but it shows nowhere near
» the level of density as in the photos I posted.
»
»
»
» Or are you saying Joling’s did not have previous HT prior to Gho? I’m
» certain he did, because he has a big strip scar on the back of his head.

» I think the photos posted by JB are “after” photos.
» Before Gho, Joling had already had 2 or 3 strip procedures.
» So he already had hair from those procedures, an the front line and on the
» crown.
» Gho added more hair. I think Gho moved 1500 grafts (confirmation needed).
» So, it would be interesting to see good before pictures, to see how much
» coverage did Joling had before Gho’s procedure.
»
» Shooter, why do you think these photos JB has posted are “before”?

I think I misunderstood him and edited my post accordingly. I believe you are right. Joling had about 1500 grafts. His previous strips no doubt added to the density. No way can 1500 grafts give that kind of density.

Gho says he can only do 35 grafts cm^2 in the first procedure, and his technique maxes at 50 grafts/cm^2. So I think we are looking at the max density Gho can achieve in 2 passes, even though he didn’t do the first pass.

» » This study was a total failure. JB, I don’t understand how you are using
» » this study as proof of concept. It is all the contrary.
»
» Huh?
»
» The study proved 76% of lower thirds left in the skin regrow thick hair.

Yes, 76% of the donor follicles survive, but this is because the upper fragments don’t survive.

Only 25% of the higher fragments (moved to recipient) survived. Its not crazy to speculate, that when the higher fragment survives, the donor dies.
So, for these 76% of donor follicles that survive, the upper fragments moved to recipient site, die. So what is the merit od donor survival if the harvested fragments won’t survive? It equates to no-harvesting.

In other words:
You harvest 100 donor follicles. You move their upper parts to the recipient site.
Only 25 upper parts survive. But for these, the 25 “parent donors” die.
The 75 remaining donors survive, but their “children” die.

I have been staying back on this thread because I’m not much into Dr. Gho’s work either way. But what you’re saying here is basically the impression I got about Gho’s work a few years ago.

It’s like cutting a dollar bill in half: You can cut it anywhere on the bill you want, but the bottom line is that you still only have a spendable dollar with the larger piece of the two. No net gain.

I’m willing to believe there are some exceptions to that rule with Gho’s work. Maybe there is some critical slice point where you actually will get two for one. But I don’t think it will be a repeatable & consistent result. Using this method I don’t think Dr. Gho will ever give you much more hair than you started with.

Thats the result in the study posted by JB. Either the donor survives, or the recipient survives, but not both. No net gain, as you said.

I don’t know if Gho technique works, but this study failed to prove it.

» I have been staying back on this thread because I’m not much into Dr. Gho’s
» work either way. But what you’re saying here is basically the impression I
» got about Gho’s work a few years ago.
»
» It’s like cutting a dollar bill in half: You can cut it anywhere on the
» bill you want, but the bottom line is that you still only have a spendable
» dollar with the larger piece of the two. No net gain.
»
» I’m willing to believe there are some exceptions to that rule with Gho’s
» work. Maybe there is some critical slice point where you actually will get
» two for one. But I don’t think it will be a repeatable & consistent
» result. Using this method I don’t think Dr. Gho will ever give you much
» more hair than you started with.