In vitro hair doubling+stem cell & DP Cells, 2500 G to 5000 G @Dr. Nigam\'s

Response to Freddie555

If I remember correctly, a full head of hair for a Norwood 6 requires 20,000 Grafts. Wouldnt that make 10,000 grafts 50% or half way there?

I don’t think Dr Nigam is trying to restore original density, he’s trying to give the “illusion” of NW2. Original density will require, as you noted, 100,000 hairs or so, which will take many many doubling procedures.

If Dr. Nigam is really able to multiply hair coverage, then just achieving complete “illusion” coverage is already enough to demonstrate it.

Existing HT technology cannot even restore a shiny-bald NW#5/6 scalp to a NW#1/2 with the illusion of full density, let alone true full density.

HT patients who get 4 levels of total cosmetic MPB reversal do happen occasionally. But a qualified HT doc could perform daily transplants for a decade without ever producing one. It is not a realistic goal for any HT patient to have. If Dr. Nigam can produce several 4-Norwood patients in a row then he is has unquestionably made a breakthrough in HT science.

In order to create a full head of hair you should utilize the existing hair follicles under the skin and get them to produce long thick hairs again. The way to do this is to inject the following:

Hair cells + growth factors + Wnt7a.

By growth factors I mean Follistatin, nogin, vegf, and kgf

So what it will take is:

  1. Hair cells

  2. Follistatin

  3. nogin,

  4. vegf (vascular endothelial growth factor)

  5. kgf

  6. wnt7a

I have a question for everyone:

Out of all the growth factors mentioned by users, Dr nigam and so on. Do they all appear naturally in the scalp and which ones are missing or depleted/excess when comparing bald v non-bald scalp?

I’m not sure I understand where your question is coming from. What really matters is that we know from Histogen’s studies which growth factors stimulate hair growth. That’s the point.

How does one measure which growth factors are in low supply when we don’t know if we are talking about the patient’s baseline at embryo, childhood, teenager, or whenever? The thing is that the bald patient is trying to kick-start growth of long thick hairs from follicles that are now producing peach fuzz, if those follicles are producing any hairs at all. Having a normal level of growth factors for a person your age may not be a relevant issue in this situation just like it only takes a normal level of DHT to take the balding person’s hair when the person is your age. You may have a normal amount of all growth factors for a person in your age group but in order to kick-start hair growth again you may still need to add more of these growth factors because kick-starting hair growth may require that the level of these specific growth factors be at the normal level for a different phase in your existence.

We aren’t talking about stem cells vs progenitor cells here. We are talking about something totally different here. Everything doesn’t fall into the stem cells vs progenitor cells availability-equation framework.

Your question sounds like a question that could give the naysayers an excuse to say (without real proof and contrary to the actual evidence) that growth factors won’t grow hair because growth factors aren’t at low levels in balding scalp. Your question invites the naysayers to posit that growth factors are useless even though Histogen’s success proves that adding growth factors causes hair growth.

It is within the realm of possibility that none of the growth factors in your scalp are at reduced levels for a person your age but you may still need more of the right growth factors to get hair growth kick-started again.

Your question doesn’t take this possibility into account.

The thing is that in the same way that your normal DHT levels (normal for a person your age) is taking your hair; if you keep your growth factors at the level they are at now (and they may very well be at a normal level for a person your age) then you will continue to lose your hair. You need to increase your growth factors + Wnt7a + hair cells if you want to try to get all of your already-existing hair follicles working properly again. They need a kick-start just like they got when they first started working. They need that kick-start again.

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by HairlossCurse[/postedby]
I have a question for everyone:

Out of all the growth factors mentioned by users, Dr nigam and so on. Do they all appear naturally in the scalp and which ones are missing or depleted/excess when comparing bald v non-bald scalp?[/quote]

I wonder about the growth factor situation with the SCID rats that regrow long-balded human follicles. For all we know there might be something to learn there, even with it being a different animal model.

Of course adding growth factors will cause some growth thats not what I am disputing. What I want to know is whether or not these growth factors are found at different levels in bald scalp vs normal scalp. I.e is MPB caused by a lack of these growth factors as well as DHT/pdg2?

That is really a mind blowing treatment

Can we expect an update from this client? I would be eager to see if some hairs have grown back yet. But of course 2 months is pretty early to see much improvement.

Expecting him in june end to visit the clinic for follow up…will take pics and post.

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by hairman2[/postedby]
Can we expect an update from this client? I would be eager to see if some hairs have grown back yet. But of course 2 months is pretty early to see much improvement.[/quote]

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by Khalil[/postedby]
Response to Freddie555

If I remember correctly, a full head of hair for a Norwood 6 requires 20,000 Grafts. Wouldnt that make 10,000 grafts 50% or half way there?[/quote]

We are born with the ability to generate approximately 100,000 hairs. Lets say the average man with no MPB loses about 30% of that as he grows older.

At the very least, if anyone claims to have a cure, he should be able to take a NW6 man and turn him into a NW2 with 65 to 70,000K.

Anything less and I’m not convinced there is any cure. Nobody who really has the cure will be unable to turn a NW6 into REAL NW2.

It seems to me that a true cure could possibly bring it all back given time as long as you still have the follicles.

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by Khalil[/postedby]
Response to Freddie555

If I remember correctly, a full head of hair for a Norwood 6 requires 20,000 Grafts. Wouldnt that make 10,000 grafts 50% or half way there?

[postedby]Originally Posted by Freddie555[/postedby]

We are born with the ability to generate approximately 100,000 hairs. Lets say the average man with no MPB loses about 30% of that as he grows older.

At the very least, if anyone claims to have a cure, he should be able to take a NW6 man and turn him into a NW2 with 65 to 70,000K.

Anything less and I’m not convinced there is any cure. Nobody who really has the cure will be unable to turn a NW6 into REAL NW2.[/quote]

what do you base that assumption on? So far there is little or no proof that such a 100% recovery has ever occurred. As always there is a great discrepancy between your wishful thinking and what reality has shown us.

[quote]It seems to me that a true cure could possibly bring it all back given time as long as you still have the follicles.

[postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby][/quote]

People are allowed to theorize but you lack the brainpower to figure that out.

First of all, there are not true cures for human hair loss available.

Secondly, when I first use RU58841 I got back ALL of my hair - every last strand. I realize this isn’t scientific evidence because I’m just one guy and there were no controls and it wasn’t a sanctioned experiment, but the fact still remains that RU got me back every last strand.

Thirdly, in macaques and mice it has been established that complete reversal of hair loss can be achieved. You could say that, that does not prove that the same could be accomplished with humans but I believe otherwise.

Fourth, I kind of think that a follicle is a follicle is a follicle. So if one can be resurrected then the other one likely can be too as long as it isn’t damaged.

Lastly, of course there is no absolute, total, 100% evidence that I’m correct about this but there’s no law against theorizing and based on items 1-4 above I’m theorizing that if one failing follicle can be gotten to produce hair again then all of them can be gotten to produce hair again as long as those follicles are still totally intact and producing peach fuzz.

[quote]what do you base that assumption on? So far there is little or no proof that such a 100% recovery has ever occurred. As always there is a great discrepancy between your wishful thinking and what reality has shown us.

It seems to me that a true cure could possibly bring it all back given time as long as you still have the follicles.

[postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby]

[postedby]Originally Posted by hairman2[/postedby][/quote]

And BTW I’m aware that some dermatological researchers agree that as long as the follicle is still there then that hair can be recovered. I’ve read that and I’ve spoken to dermatological researchers who have told me so. I’m not going to trouble myself with getting that information for you but I’ve seen it and heard it years ago.

[quote]what do you base that assumption on? So far there is little or no proof that such a 100% recovery has ever occurred. As always there is a great discrepancy between your wishful thinking and what reality has shown us.

It seems to me that a true cure could possibly bring it all back given time as long as you still have the follicles.

[postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby]

[postedby]Originally Posted by hairman2[/postedby][/quote]

firstly given your history on this forum I have serious difficulties believing any aspect of your so called “evidence”. You claim that RU regrew ALL your hair but you nevertheless inexplicably dropped it because you were unable to find consistently good batches.

If this story were true then you would likely be able to provide pictures of when you were balding and one when you were on RU. No such evidence has ever been brought forward by you. Secondly, if the story were true any normal person in his right mind, knowing that RU is able to regrow “every last strand of hair” would continue searching for a good supplier of RU until he finds one rather than giving up on the substance as a whole and perusing uncertain treatments which are still under development.

Also, having spoken to you on this forum for a long time I know that you will say or do anything to prove a point, which I am sure applies to the so called dermatologists that told you that hair follicles can regrow 100%. This is particularly awry because the general consensus amongst dermatologists seems to be a different one.

[quote]And BTW I’m aware that some dermatological researchers agree that as long as the follicle is still there then that hair can be recovered. I’ve read that and I’ve spoken to dermatological researchers who have told me so. I’m not going to trouble myself with getting that information for you but I’ve seen it and heard it years ago.

what do you base that assumption on? So far there is little or no proof that such a 100% recovery has ever occurred. As always there is a great discrepancy between your wishful thinking and what reality has shown us.

It seems to me that a true cure could possibly bring it all back given time as long as you still have the follicles.

[postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby]

[postedby]Originally Posted by hairman2[/postedby]

[postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby][/quote]

I bestow upon you the right to disagree with me so it’s OK for you to disagree with me if you want to. Are you happy now?

[quote]firstly given your history on this forum I have serious difficulties believing any aspect of your so called “evidence”. You claim that RU regrew ALL your hair but you nevertheless inexplicably dropped it because you were unable to find consistently good batches.

If this story were true then you would likely be able to provide pictures of when you were balding and one when you were on RU. No such evidence has ever been brought forward by you. Secondly, if the story were true any normal person in his right mind, knowing that RU is able to regrow “every last strand of hair” would continue searching for a good supplier of RU until he finds one rather than giving up on the substance as a whole and perusing uncertain treatments which are still under development.

Also, having spoken to you on this forum for a long time I know that you will say or do anything to prove a point, which I am sure applies to the so called dermatologists that told you that hair follicles can regrow 100%. This is particularly awry because the general consensus amongst dermatologists seems to be a different one.

And BTW I’m aware that some dermatological researchers agree that as long as the follicle is still there then that hair can be recovered. I’ve read that and I’ve spoken to dermatological researchers who have told me so. I’m not going to trouble myself with getting that information for you but I’ve seen it and heard it years ago.

what do you base that assumption on? So far there is little or no proof that such a 100% recovery has ever occurred. As always there is a great discrepancy between your wishful thinking and what reality has shown us.

It seems to me that a true cure could possibly bring it all back given time as long as you still have the follicles.

[postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby]

[postedby]Originally Posted by hairman2[/postedby]

[postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby]

[postedby]Originally Posted by hairman2[/postedby][/quote]

Dr. Nigam,
Do you have any news regarding this case? Some photos? The surgery was performed 03/21/2013, by now we should see some results, it’s been almost three months …

Durrent,
I have been in touch with this patient, he is from delhi…i am expecting him in next 15 days…that’s what he says…just called him again …while typing your post…hopefully in july we will have his follow up pics…when he visits me at mumbai…

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by durent[/postedby]
Dr. Nigam,
Do you have any news regarding this case? Some photos? The surgery was performed 03/21/2013, by now we should see some results, it’s been almost three months …[/quote]