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If human vellus hair grows in mice


#1

If human vellus hair grows in mice why not implanting these vellus in some part of our own body (like our back, legs, …) and wait until it grows again and then put it back in our heads?

If it works in mice why not in our own body?

Anyone sees something wrong in my reasoning?

Cheers.


#2

:expressionless:


#3

The problem is that growing on mice doesn’t tell us that much - virtually any f****** thing grows on mice :slight_smile:


#4

» The problem is that growing on mice doesn’t tell us that much - virtually
» any f****** thing grows on mice :slight_smile:

But Cotsarelis grafted human skin on to the mice. Shouldn’t that make somewhat of a difference?


#5

» If human vellus hair grows in mice why not implanting these vellus in some
» part of our own body (like our back, legs, …) and wait until it grows
» again and then put it back in our heads?
»
» If it works in mice why not in our own body?
»
» Anyone sees something wrong in my reasoning?
»
» Cheers.

I think its because the fücking mouse is immunosuppressed. I don’t remember. I think it was Benji who wrote about it. Ask him.


#6

The MPB websites need a separate message board dedicated to “new discoveries that regrow hair on mice.”


#7

The mice in the experiment Kligman moved human vellus hairs to that regrew to 50% of normal hair size (while donor hairs also grew to 50% of normal hair size on the same mice at 22 weeks), were SCID mice without an immune system. These are not the healthiest little creatures on earth. Their androgen levels might have been very low…

The reason I speculate that their androgen levels were probably low is because a RU58841 study was done with human MPB hairs transplanted to mice. Only 2% of the control mice regrew the MPB hairs for a second cycle, while 28% of the RU58841 mice did (they didn’t use nearly enough RU58841…something like .1% or less…so they didn’t get enough androgen receptors blocked). These mice probably had normal testosterone profiles if they were testosterone conditioned mice being studied for a baldness indication.

If you moved your “vellus” hairs to your leg, they will still be uptaking androgens via the androgen receptors on the hair and will remain suppressed. Their DNA does not change when they are moved. To get the vellus hairs to possibly regrow, we’d have to remove androgens and somehow get the immune system to not attack them anymore, and we’d probably need some growth stimulant on top of that. …Or we would need to change the DNA in the vellus hairs somehow so they weren’t suppressed by androgens. That isn’t going to be happening in the near future so its a moot point.

The “back of the leg” idea WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA for HM cell injections in my opinion. I wish they would do this. I still have a firm belief that the MPB-area scalp is changed enough through the chronic inflammation as to be a very bad environment for these cells to “make” hairs up there. I’d love to see what the results would be if the HM-cell-injections were done on the thigh…allowed to grow…and then transplanted to the scalp. I bet they’d have a hell of alot more success with fully differentiated hairs up there than mere cells. If they can grow the hairs in a tissue matrix outside the body (what Aderans is rumored to be working on if you look at one of their patents), then I see no reason for the yield not to be very good when injected. In short, I think the changes in bald scalp via the immunological baldness process is what is giving HM trouble as far as results.
The very same thing may trouble follica…hence why you see me wanting to see them also trying to “thicken up” the donor area of these men and see if better results are seen there, thus making more hair back there for transplantation later.


#8

MPB-affected scalp skin seems totally capable of reverting to its old condition via HT grafting. Or at least capable of physically healing around & permanently nourishing full-blown hairs in that spot again, if not re-sprouting the damaged old ones specifically.

I think this issue may be under-recognized in the HM efforts & research.

If they can’t get something to grow/regrow correctly on shiny-bald MPB’d skin, I think they should at least try it on a test area that has already seen a moderate-density sprinkling of HT grafts before they give up on it entirely.


#9

» The reason I speculate that their androgen levels were probably low is
» because a RU58841 study was done with human MPB hairs transplanted to mice.
» Only 2% of the control mice regrew the MPB hairs for a second cycle, while
» 28% of the RU58841 mice did (they didn’t use nearly enough
» RU58841…something like .1% or less…so they didn’t get enough
» androgen receptors blocked). These mice probably had normal testosterone
» profiles if they were testosterone conditioned mice being studied for a
» baldness indication.

This is interesting, because, if I remember well, I discussed with Stephen Foote that, if his theory were right, then transplanting a vellus hair would create a well around it, reduce the pressures, and the vellus hair would regrow again.
But, according to what you have posted, Benji, it seems that this is not going to happen. So this could be an indication that Foote’s theory is not right.


#10

» » The reason I speculate that their androgen levels were probably low is
» » because a RU58841 study was done with human MPB hairs transplanted to
» mice.
» » Only 2% of the control mice regrew the MPB hairs for a second cycle,
» while
» » 28% of the RU58841 mice did (they didn’t use nearly enough
» » RU58841…something like .1% or less…so they didn’t get
» enough
» » androgen receptors blocked). These mice probably had normal
» testosterone
» » profiles if they were testosterone conditioned mice being studied for a
» » baldness indication.
»
» This is interesting, because, if I remember well, I discussed with Stephen
» Foote that, if his theory were right, then transplanting a vellus hair
» would create a well around it, reduce the pressures, and the vellus hair
» would regrow again.
» But, according to what you have posted, Benji, it seems that this is not
» going to happen. So this could be an indication that Foote’s theory is not
» right.

Its not right, and its a bogus theory. Baldness happens through the human androgen receptor and the anti-gens released downstream of it and the ensuing response from the bodies immune system from some event associated with it (perhaps keratinocyte apoptosis, who knows?). Baldness has been looked at very closely now through the best microscopic instruments in the world. If it was a tissue edema of the scalp, it would have been noted many times by now.


#11

» Its not right, and its a bogus theory. Baldness happens through the human
» androgen receptor and the anti-gens released downstream of it and the
» ensuing response from the bodies immune system from some event associated
» with it (perhaps keratinocyte apoptosis, who knows?). Baldness has been
» looked at very closely now through the best microscopic instruments in the
» world. If it was a tissue edema of the scalp, it would have been noted many
» times by now.

ok, but sometimes, the scientific comunity accepts theories that are not right because of economic interests. That is why I gave Foote’s ideas a chance.


#12

Ok. My idea maybe doesn’t work but for an HT doctor it wouldn’t take any effort to move 20 hairs from head to leg.

So if someone if considering HT he might also tell the dr. to try that.