Histogen’s „Proof of Concept“ Trail – Some more pics & data

» It is always difficult to interpret slides without the accompanying
» commentary. My interpretation - and this is purely my own, not
» substantiated - is that for 014 only the top left and bottom right
» quadrants of his head were treated (see the yellow highlights on the
» sketch). What Histogen may have wanted to show is the improvement in these
» quadrants compared to the non-improvement (deterioration?) in the other
» quadrants.
»
» Nonetheless, the most important data to look at are the hair counts. These
» are measureable in an objective way and they show pretty good improvement.
»
»
» I’ve always believed that Histogen was a bit ahead of its peers (Aderans,
» etc). The company has experience commercializing products. What worries me
» about Aderans is the fact that it’s led by a bunch of academics who are
» quite possibly more interested in the science of hair growth and by
» association the science of cell formation in the human body rather than the
» treatment of hair loss. I would hazard a guess that at Aderans many side
» experiments take place which may only be tangentially related to hair loss
» but are the subject of the researcher’s interests. I’ve seen this sort of
» thing happen when academics are given a huge budget and no firm deadline to
» come up with something. Aderans has been looking into this since 2002 and
» only recently have they started trials. Contrast this with Histogen which
» was formed in 2007 and have already conducted human trials.

+1 Same thoughts here.

But I have to add, the hair loss world out there need them both - no REAL working protocols without fundamental science & research!

Think about “Minoxidil” - until today, just lots of speculations, and nobody really really knows for sure, HOW and WHY this focking thingy is “working”.

» 84% of “responders” ?
»
» Yeah, I’m absolutely sure you will be one of the 16% for the rest of you
» sick life as retard.
»
» But what did you say ?
»
» » If I think they are fooling us,
» » I will stalk them until they present real proof or go out of
» business.
»
» Oh yeah, “Mr Protector” uses “us” – anyway, time for stalking and heavily
» bashing Dr. Gail Naughton, because she “fooled” with just 84% and couldn’t
» reach 100% - DRAMA!! Time for stalking and heavily bashing and creating
» multiple useless threads!!
»
» Spanish Dude, you can’t even protect yourself!! - you crippled
» stupid psychopath! So don’t use “us” in your crap sentences.
»
» “responders” pahhh !!! This joker is as stupid as Dr. Ray Woods: Both have
» no idea in reading, understanding and interpreting of data’s and tables &
» graph’s.
»
» Leave this board Spanish Dude, you ARE a crippled stupid psychopath! Here
» is absolutely no need for you! HAS NEVER EVER BEEN! Not here and not
» elsewhere!

and you call SpanishDude the stalker? Can’t you shut the f*ck up and get on topic you little prick…?

» » 84% of “responders” ?
» »
» » Yeah, I’m absolutely sure you will be one of the 16% for the rest of
» you
» » sick life as retard.
» »
» » But what did you say ?
» »
» » » If I think they are fooling us,
» » » I will stalk them until they present real proof or go out of
» » business.
» »
» » Oh yeah, “Mr Protector” uses “us” – anyway, time for stalking and
» heavily
» » bashing Dr. Gail Naughton, because she “fooled” with just 84% and
» couldn’t
» » reach 100% - DRAMA!! Time for stalking and heavily bashing and creating
» » multiple useless threads!!
» »
» » Spanish Dude, you can’t even protect yourself!! - you crippled
» » stupid psychopath! So don’t use “us” in your crap sentences.
» »
» » “responders” pahhh !!! This joker is as stupid as Dr. Ray Woods: Both
» have
» » no idea in reading, understanding and interpreting of data’s and tables
» &
» » graph’s.
» »
» » Leave this board Spanish Dude, you ARE a crippled stupid psychopath!
» Here
» » is absolutely no need for you! HAS NEVER EVER BEEN! Not here and not
» » elsewhere!
» -----------------------------
» and you call SpanishDude the stalker? Can’t you shut the f*ck up and get
» on topic you little prick…?

I’ve just been “on topic” - actually since I started this topic, “you little prick!”

Are YOU “on topic” ?

And NO, I’m NOT a stalker; as I already said I can CONFIRM, that Spanish Dude is indeed a real stalker - YOU LITTLE PRICK and well-known BITCH of Spanish Dude!

Good lord only 84% responders in the first tests ever this is way tooo low, i think Histogen has jumped the shark.

You can clearly see on the pics that only one of the four injections worked a little bit.

Spanish Dude Mode Off.

iam sorry guys, i gotta take a shower cause when i immitate SPanish Dude it feels like getting raped by HIV infected Monkeys in a sumatra jungle

Stop talking about spanish dude, we don’t care about that… we need to understand better the poor info we have on histogen/aderans, I guess we can discover “stealth” information with constructive posts and observations!

However I hope leonard is right ! I like your interpretation leonard.

Leonard is actually pretty close with his opinions.

WHat i can say is, that the result is pretty good for a pre clinical test phase. I like it and even if it wont give full density (what i didnt think) it can and will absolutely improve HT procedures.

» Stop talking about spanish dude, we don’t care about that… we need to
» understand better the poor info we have on histogen/aderans, I guess we can
» discover “stealth” information with constructive posts and observations!
»
» However I hope leonard is right ! I like your interpretation leonard.

» Leonard is actually pretty close with his opinions.
»
» WHat i can say is, that the result is pretty good for a pre clinical test
» phase. I like it and even if it wont give full density (what i didnt think)
» it can and will absolutely improve HT procedures.
»
» » Stop talking about spanish dude, we don’t care about that… we need to
» » understand better the poor info we have on histogen/aderans, I guess we
» can
» » discover “stealth” information with constructive posts and
» observations!
» »
» » However I hope leonard is right ! I like your interpretation leonard.

As I said in precedent posts, my biggest fear is that they GOT something that works but not enough to be marketable

I mean, if they achieve the goal of improve by 40% in hair count (DHT resistant hair obviously) they’ll SELL or not? I would pay for that (a reasonable price) simply because personally minox to me was a total fail, and a way to have back some hair dht resistant with a procedure I guess repeteable should be FINE, much better than nothing… in combination with an hair transplant and 1 or 2 procedure should be cool I think, don’t you?

» » » However I hope leonard is right ! I like your interpretation leonard.
» ---------------
» As I said in precedent posts, my biggest fear is that they GOT something
» that works but not enough to be marketable
»
» I mean, if they achieve the goal of improve by 40% in hair count (DHT
» resistant hair obviously) they’ll SELL or not?

Since when can somebody sell a new drug/medication/therapy/device WITHOUT any clinical trails/studies ?

Without the knowledge, HOW and in WHICH patient this thing is working (if at all)? How about the amount of dosage in which case/patient?

» » I mean, if they achieve the goal of improve by 40% in hair count
» (DHT
» » resistant hair obviously) they’ll SELL or not?
»
» Since when can somebody sell a new drug/medication/therapy/device WITHOUT
» any clinical trails/studies ?
»
» Without the knowledge, HOW and in WHICH patient this thing is working (if
» at all)? How about the amount of dosage in which case/patient?

BTW – Besides that, in Europe (surely in most other countries as well) there are even for any NEW hair transplant techniques/methods clinical studies necessary, which needs to be reviewed and approved by the FDA and/or local authorities, in the form of an Institutional Review Board (IRB = independent ethics committee/commission), as for instance:

Hey biston, ok lets assume your situation with 40% and repeating procedure. Then you would be right. And also if we consider Iron Mans opinions.

The worst worst worst case with the current informations is that Histogen can just save us some Grafts on a normal ht.

WHat we can see on those, yeah i give you that , bad pictures is a transformation from lets say a NW7 to a diffuse NW4 IF IF IF IF IF we sum things on a full scale and not just a part of your head.

Try it for yourself take the regrown hair and put it on the rest of the head and take a NW7 as the basic person. You will end up with a diffuse NW4

Yes right now its far from marketing, but only for NW6 and up. If you are a diffuse NW 5 something this would transform you at least to a NW3 with some diffuse patterns.

Those results are nothing to jump in the air and kick some rocks but they are good to see that there is HOPE for us within a reasonable period of time.

And we have to know that Histogen actually has some financial issues, thats a fact and they dont make a secret about it. Which is actually a good thing, cause i think they will become really really succesful with their HM because they went the truth way and give away some infos.

So to answer your questions in a serious and honest way.

Yes you can get your full head of hair back BUT it depends on your NW status, a NW 1 to NW 3 will most likely only need one procedure done whereas up to a NW5 i think its high likely that we will need 2 treatments. The first for getting things started and the second to boost the first treatment.

But i actually DONT know about scar tissue, i asked my friedn who is into biological stuff about the chance that with rejuvenanton/etc hair can grow on scar tissue.

He only replied that there can and will be growth but it wont be significant. He told me this just today.

He also told me that Histogens thing will have some more or less positive effects on your donor. It will make your donor thinning obsolet and therefore there will be some problems, because when you start this treatment you will most likely look like a clown cause your donor will be huge and on top of your head there will be slower regrow.

Is Histogens method a one stop solution? NO its not, at least not for NW6 and up

Do we need some HT? YES we will, cause the frontal area will be a very risky thing. Just ask Iron Man he knows a lot of stuff about those small white hairs. I only know the theorie about it but he knows all the other things

Is the product they have right now good or marketable? YES and NO YES for some minor NW scale people this could be an easy fillup and No for the rest and the people who had for example a strip procedure done.

ARI or Histogen WHO will make it? I dont know cause we dont know exactly what they are really up to in their idea to market their procedure.

Is the 40% increase good? YES it is cause it will save as i said before a lot of grafts for a ht.

Will i ever have back my hairs like hen i was 18? YES you will but it will look stupid i can guarantee this.

DO You have some concerns? Yes i have some concerns about getting addicted to Histogens or Aris treatments, cause i think people will go nuts if they can get back their hair they will start to do those treatements all the time even if the got back their yourthful hair.

Cause even if HT is a bloody mess, people still go for more and more Strip FUTs which i cannot understand actually but thats another story.

So thanks biston for your jonest interest, i hope i could help you at least just a little bit.

» » Leonard is actually pretty close with his opinions.
» »
» » WHat i can say is, that the result is pretty good for a pre clinical
» test
» » phase. I like it and even if it wont give full density (what i didnt
» think)
» » it can and will absolutely improve HT procedures.
» »
» » » Stop talking about spanish dude, we don’t care about that… we need
» to
» » » understand better the poor info we have on histogen/aderans, I guess
» we
» » can
» » » discover “stealth” information with constructive posts and
» » observations!
» » »
» » » However I hope leonard is right ! I like your interpretation leonard.
»
» As I said in precedent posts, my biggest fear is that they GOT something
» that works but not enough to be marketable
»
» I mean, if they achieve the goal of improve by 40% in hair count (DHT
» resistant hair obviously) they’ll SELL or not? I would pay for that (a
» reasonable price) simply because personally minox to me was a total fail,
» and a way to have back some hair dht resistant with a procedure I guess
» repeteable should be FINE, much better than nothing… in combination with
» an hair transplant and 1 or 2 procedure should be cool I think, don’t you?

I think we’re speculating a lot on an issue we don’t know entirely. Lets remember, this was a MINIMAL dose in a pre-clinical trail testing for safety. These results are actually incredible considering it was only 1 injection… If this is compoundable then they have the cure for MPB. Many people believe even a completely bald human still has almost all of his follicles but they are dormant and under the skin, so if this is a medium to reawaken follicles to a pre-embryonic state and have them regrow you could potentially have ALL the hair you ever had.

Instead of saying, you’ll absolutely need a transplant along with this procedure, we should say that is still a possibility because nothing is certain, what I can say is that there is a good chance you won’t need a transplant with their treatment. It could potentially reawaken follicles that are dormant are are where your original hairline was which may look a bit strange but hey, a low hairline is better than a high one so lets keep our fingers crossed and hope this provides a treatment.

The only thing that may restrict this is the idea that the hairs they are recreating will not be DHT resistant and may only last as long as your hair did before MPB kicked in… If that’s the case then you would have to get the treatment every 5/10/15/20 years depending on how aggressive your case of MPB really is.

What do you guys think?

» » » » However I hope leonard is right ! I like your interpretation
» leonard.
» » ---------------
» » As I said in precedent posts, my biggest fear is that they GOT
» something
» » that works but not enough to be marketable
» »
» » I mean, if they achieve the goal of improve by 40% in hair count
» (DHT
» » resistant hair obviously) they’ll SELL or not?
»
» Since when can somebody sell a new drug/medication/therapy/device WITHOUT
» any clinical trails/studies ?

no no no Ironman I’m not asking they to sell BEFORE the END of the stdudy, I’ve asked, if their BEST result will be the same as the phase 1 (or 2 dunno), they will take this as a FAILURE and are not going to sell? because even if they will not be able to give back a full head of hair to a nw7, I understand that many people (like me) not completely bald could enjoy this benefict…

we can see NOW that the procedure as you said works, maybe isn’t actually a miracle but ok at least WORKS

» Is the product they have right now good or marketable? YES and NO YES for
» some minor NW scale people this could be an easy fillup and No for the rest
» and the people who had for example a strip procedure done.

exactly this is my point, however thanks for the answer.

» no no no Ironman I’m not asking they to sell BEFORE the END of the stdudy,
» I’ve asked, if their BEST result will be the same as the phase 1 (or
» 2 dunno), they will take this as a FAILURE and are not going to sell?
» because even if they will not be able to give back a full head of hair to a
» nw7, I understand that many people (like me) not completely bald could
» enjoy this benefict…
»
» we can see NOW that the procedure as you said works, maybe isn’t
» actually a miracle but ok at least WORKS

Biston: even if Histogen produces mediocre, Minoxidil-like results, they will sell it, for sure, because:

-The manufacturing costs are cheap (I think). The selling price can be low (I think).
-It is convenient. Just a few injections across the balding area. No need to harvest follicles in the back of your head for cells.
-A single session produces results that last for at least 1 year (probably many years). Compare with Minoxidil or Propecia that require dosing everyday.
-side effects are still unknown, but chances are that it is much safer than Minoxidil and Propecia, because it is not dosed everyday, and its just a local treatment.

guys, please give me your lights into that.

i am not very aware about Histogen’s method. Does anybody know if histogen rejuvenate a follicle which wasn’t there before (creating completely new follicles)or simply turns the really fine ones hair to thicker terminal ones?
or histogen technique has been designed to do them both?.
It is the most critical question.

thanks in advance for the answer.

No they are not selling this treatment if it is just in this phase, cause it is not a perfect substitute end of story. The price tag says something around 5000 dollars and so they need some improvements, if you had read my comments you would have known this.

And Spanish Dude is wrong again you cannot compare Minox with Histogens method because

  1. Histogen Hairs keep growing after one year
  2. Regrow from lost thought hairs

Manufactoring costs are NOT cheap. The still have financial problems. And all the research costs a lot of money A LOT and this money has to be gathered:sleeping:

The selling price has been tagged as around 5000 dollars and thats cheap for some and expensive for others (like you)

Harvesting follicles is an individual thing which Ari is going after

The didnt last For a year, they kepp GROWING after a year, thats different, cause it shows that the new hair is going through cycles. You speak as if those hairs were there immediatly after the treatment head shake

I repeat you are wrong again, those results are NOT compoarable to minox and FIN cause these are Drugs and not head injections.

THERE ARE NO SIDEEFFECTS, if there were side effects they had to stop their trials, and if you had read those Histogen dossiers, you wouldnt have post this question.

» No they are not selling this treatment if it is just in this phase, cause
» it is not a perfect substitute end of story. The price tag says something
» around 5000 dollars and so they need some improvements, if you had read my
» comments you would have known this.
»
» And Spanish Dude is wrong again you cannot compare Minox with Histogens
» method because
»
» 1) Histogen Hairs keep growing after one year
» 2) Regrow from lost thought hairs
»
» Manufactoring costs are NOT cheap. The still have financial problems. And
» all the research costs a lot of money A LOT and this money has to be
» gathered:sleeping:
»
» The selling price has been tagged as around 5000 dollars and thats cheap
» for some and expensive for others (like you)
»
» Harvesting follicles is an individual thing which Ari is going after
»
» The didnt last For a year, they kepp GROWING after a year, thats
» different, cause it shows that the new hair is going through cycles. You
» speak as if those hairs were there immediatly after the treatment head
» shake

»
» I repeat you are wrong again, those results are NOT compoarable to minox
» and FIN cause these are Drugs and not head injections.
»
» THERE ARE NO SIDEEFFECTS, if there were side effects they had to stop
» their trials, and if you had read those Histogen dossiers, you wouldnt have
» post this question.

Its funny how you always speak as if you had inside knowledge or were all-knowing or something… like your comment on Leonards interpretation “Leonard’s interpretation is close”… as if you are in a position to judge if he is close or not…

furthermore, virtually every treatment and drug has side-effects as i’m certain Histogen will have too… side effects do not mean the immediate termination of clinical trails… it all depends on the severity of the side-effects.

Also:
» I repeat you are wrong again, those results are NOT compoarable to minox
» and FIN cause these are Drugs and not head injections.

LOL brilliant argument… sorry but it is totally legitimate to compare hairloss treatments… who cares if its oral topical or an injection?

» furthermore, virtually every treatment and drug has side-effects as i’m
» certain Histogen will have too… side effects do not mean the immediate
» termination of clinical trails… it all depends on the severity of the
» side-effects.

histogen works like aderans with your own stem cells or i’m wrong on this?

I was trying to hint at this earlier but nobody responded… There is speculation that hair follicles actually “die” but rather they end up miniturizing until the point where they are below the surface of the skin where they then lie dormant. So in theory under a bald mans scalp there are all the dormant follicles he was born with or the the vast majority of them.

Histogen uses stem cells that mimic an embryonic environment so the treatment is meant to reawaken the dormant follicles and revitalize the surrounding vellus hair as well. So in theory if it works the way it’s meant to work it could give you 100% of your hair back, even a juvenile hairline.

Lets all hope it does.

» I was trying to hint at this earlier but nobody responded… There is
» speculation that hair follicles actually “die” but rather they end up
» miniturizing until the point where they are below the surface of the skin
» where they then lie dormant. So in theory under a bald mans scalp there
» are all the dormant follicles he was born with or the the vast majority of
» them.
»
» Histogen uses stem cells that mimic an embryonic environment so the
» treatment is meant to reawaken the dormant follicles and revitalize the
» surrounding vellus hair as well. So in theory if it works the way it’s
» meant to work it could give you 100% of your hair back, even a juvenile
» hairline.
»
» Lets all hope it does.

alright thanks for that GoGiants
but…
what if someone has had a HT on that bald scalp?.
obviously during HT, the natural pattern is being destroyed right?
The ‘‘doctor’’ will place the grafts randomly, destroying at the same time the natural pattern.If Histogen doesn’t create new follicles, all Ht patients will face unexpected results after Histogen’s injections.
If this is the case , that means that if someone really believes that Histogen will work sometime in the future, must re-think to go for a HT now.
what do you think?