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Histogen questions


#1

i’ve been doing some research over the last few years trying to keep up to date on all the releases from histogen, TRC etc, and recall seeing at some point histogen posting 22 week photos, and also, their being a drop in results at this point. It seemed that the hair they grew had fallen out after 5 months? or whatever the case after 22 weeks results were weaker?

IE after 12 weeks you had 20 % more hair, and after 22 weeks the same patient had only 7 % more hair. so what happened to that 13 % between weeks 12 and 22?

my question is, When i did some searching this afternoon and tonight I could only find 12 week results, I know i saw this info at some point in the past but cannot relocate it now, does anyone know where this release is?

I also remember reading that they have came out an said their new growth isn’t DHT resistant? would that be the reason for the drop in results? once the follicle sprouts it gets doomed by the DHT anyways?

I dont think any of the patients were allowed to be on any DHT blockers during the trial so maybe it might work well with a DHT blocker? does that mean even if this kidna works ill still need my avodart…

hmmmm

D


#2

5 months results:
http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/forum_entry-id-58842.html

At 5-months, they have released data from just 2 patients. Probably the best ones.
I think 5 month results are not good, and that is probably why they haven’t been published in full. Also, that is probably why Dr. Naughton has decided not to answer our Q&A session.

Still, to be fair, we must wait for those trials in Asia on 50 trialists. Histogen is a very expeditive company. They do things very fast, and they publish more data than any other company. So, lets give them a chance. I think they deserve it.

» i’ve been doing some research over the last few years trying to keep up to
» date on all the releases from histogen, TRC etc, and recall seeing at some
» point histogen posting 22 week photos, and also, their being a drop in
» results at this point. It seemed that the hair they grew had fallen out
» after 5 months? or whatever the case after 22 weeks results were weaker?
»
» IE after 12 weeks you had 20 % more hair, and after 22 weeks the same
» patient had only 7 % more hair. so what happened to that 13 % between
» weeks 12 and 22?
»
» my question is, When i did some searching this afternoon and tonight I
» could only find 12 week results, I know i saw this info at some point in
» the past but cannot relocate it now, does anyone know where this release
» is?
»
» I also remember reading that they have came out an said their new growth
» isn’t DHT resistant? would that be the reason for the drop in results?
» once the follicle sprouts it gets doomed by the DHT anyways?
»
» I dont think any of the patients were allowed to be on any DHT blockers
» during the trial so maybe it might work well with a DHT blocker? does that
» mean even if this kidna works ill still need my avodart…
»
» hmmmm
»
» D


#3

does anyone know if each patient was given the same dosage?

patient s1013, how come it lists at 5 months he had 41% more terminal hairs but his hair count was only at 10 % more? what is the terminal hair % mean?


#4

» does anyone know if each patient was given the same dosage?
»
»
» patient s1013, how come it lists at 5 months he had 41% more terminal
» hairs but his hair count was only at 10 % more? what is the terminal hair
» % mean?

terminal=thick.
vellus= thin.

possible explanations for that patient S1013:

  1. the 41% increase in terminal hair is due to vellus hairs turning into terminal hairs, and thus, the total haircount is not altered much.
  2. OR that patient had little terminal hairs, and a lot of vellus. Thus, a 41% increase of terminal hairs had a small impact in the total hair count.

The first one looks the more probable. This would mean that there is no neogenesis and Histogen is equivalent to Minoxidil or Propecia.


#5

Is Terminal the good stuff? grows long and old and doesn’t fall out? vellous is little ones, might turn into big guys or might just be little fuzz for the rest of their life? anyone know?

patient 1024, it seems continuously added to his haircount, but terminal count went up then down?

reasons?

the terminals that sprouted werent DHT resistant? fell out. and new vellous hairs came in? it seems the terminal hair would have to fall out, it couldn’t just revert to vellous. but it seems the hair follicle rejuvinated a vellus hair on its next cycle??

do the vellous eventually turn into terminals anyways? the overall hair count continued to rise? maybe its just a phase?

is their any results posted thus far that have shown the OVERALL hair count to lower after 5 months?? it seems that hair count is the important one? from my understanding monoxidil turns vellous into terminals? so as long as you can permanatly increase hair count, vellous or terminal, and block DHT, this product might actually have some legs for some people?


#6

» Is Terminal the good stuff? grows long and old and doesn’t fall out?
» vellous is little ones, might turn into big guys or might just be little
» fuzz for the rest of their life? anyone know?
»
»
» patient 1024, it seems continuously added to his haircount, but terminal
» count went up then down?
»
» reasons?
»
» the terminals that sprouted werent DHT resistant? fell out. and new
» vellous hairs came in? it seems the terminal hair would have to fall out,
» it couldn’t just revert to vellous. but it seems the hair follicle
» rejuvinated a vellus hair on its next cycle??
»
» do the vellous eventually turn into terminals anyways? the overall hair
» count continued to rise? maybe its just a phase?
»
»
» is their any results posted thus far that have shown the OVERALL hair
» count to lower after 5 months?? it seems that hair count is the important
» one? from my understanding monoxidil turns vellous into terminals? so as
» long as you can permanatly increase hair count, vellous or terminal, and
» block DHT, this product might actually have some legs for some people?

The big question facing Histogen is whether or not the HSC injections are compoundable. In other words, would more injection produce more hair? From the 5-month data that we see, it might not be impressive on its own right, but as long as it produces a positive increase in hair count, then “compound-ability” is the one thing that will determine its final efficacy.
I believe that’s what the 2010 pan-Asian clinical trials will test. Hopefully by mid or late-2010, we’ll know if Histogen has a future.


#7

Couldn’t it just be a shed at the five month point??


#8

» Couldn’t it just be a shed at the five month point??

Something doesn’t seem right about the before and after pictures they published and they offered no explanation why the hair count is lower for one of the patients.