Hello all and Follica DIY :)

Stem cell; cell based hair therapy
1

Hello all i am a long time poster on another hairloss forum and a short-time reader of this one.

I mostly joined because the hair research area seems more busy here and because I am very interested in the home-approaches of Follica’s procedure.

So to get to the point from my understanding immunosuppresion is very important DURING and AFTER the wounding. I have come to believe that topical immunosuppresion is not enough. As an experienced scientific poster said “immune system in humans is really complex and suppresing it topically will not stop the immune system cells circulate the body”

Also we have seen that human skin is able to grow a lot of hair when there is no immune system (the cancer patient case and follicas experiments whit human skin grafts in mice)

So here is a general question: Is suppresing your immunesystem internally SO dangerous if only done for a few days and with extra care? (by extra care i mean staying at home at a well-cleaned room or even perhaps wearing a surgeons mask and a sterile bandana for a few days)

Because i am a little confused about all this meds used, has any of the people who try this at home tried to suppress his immune system internally or are willing to try it?

Additionally do you think the follica patent leaves room for INTERNAL use of drugs?

Anyway i have a lot of questions but i hope i am going to get answers by frequently visiting this forum. By the way a big thanks to all the people who are trying hard to find something and sharing it with us.

2

I don’t get how suppressing your immune system will help the follica procedure. Most people I know who have their immune system suppressed lose their hair. I am no doctor, but I think it has something to do with the brain. Just like a brain tumor will make someone grow extremely tall, some type of signal tells your hair to grow and stop growing. Maybe that is what happens with the follica procedure. the skin goes into embryonic state and with the right compound the brain tells the body to create stem cells and grow hair. I don’t think the founders of follica really know what caused the mice to grow hair. They know what compounds they used and they are pretty confident that they can grown hair on a bald head with those compounds. I think this is the reason it is taking so long for the clinical trials to start.

3

» I don’t get how suppressing your immune system will help the follica
» procedure.
. Cylcosporin, Tacromilus, Pinecromilus and a couple of other immunosuppressants are mentioned in the patent as possible adjuvants to the process. The two getfitinib patients with freak hairgrowth were on chemotherapy, and had compromised immune systems. All of the SCID mice with human skin grafted onto them that grew human hair on their backs during the experiments were SCID mice, which means they dont have immune function at any legitimately functioning level. We have not seen experimental humans get hair growth in resonse to wounds yet that have working immune systems. This may be something (the immune system) that might have to be suppressed during the embryonic window after skin-reepilithialization post-epidermal disruption to get new hair, but we are hoping not.

Most people I know who have their immune system suppressed lose
» their hair. I am no doctor, but I think it has something to do with the
» brain. Just like a brain tumor will make someone grow extremely tall, some
» type of signal tells your hair to grow and stop growing. Maybe that is what
» happens with the follica procedure. the skin goes into embryonic state and
» with the right compound the brain tells the body to create stem cells and
» grow hair. The epidermal stem cells are creating the hair very near to the surface of the skin in response to epidermal disruption after the skin re-epilithializes on human skin grafted onto SCID mice, and larger and more numerous hairs are being created if epidermal growth factor is “blocked” by an antagonist of it or its receptor. More and larger hairs are also being created if androgens are blocked, potassium channel openers are used, keratinocyte growth factor is introduced, EDAR signalling is agonized, etc. They will be experimenting to find out the optimal pathways to either suppress or agonize.

I don’t think the founders of follica really know what caused
» the mice to grow hair. They know EXACTLY what caused the mice with human skin grafted onto their backs to grow HUMAN hair. They know what compounds they used and they are
» pretty confident that they can grown hair on a bald head with those
» compounds. They DIDN’T use ANY CHEMICAL COMPOUDS in some of the experiments and still got hair on SCID mice by simply using dermabrasion on them. These mice dont have immune systems though, and we do, so there is a big difference in the two dermal system’s response to wounds because of that.

I think this is the reason it is taking so long for the clinical
» trials to start. Actually clinical trials have been in recruitment and may have already started at HARVARD. They are simply going to wound men’s scalps (very shallow wounds like dermabrasion or laser resurfacing) and see pathways are active, what the immune system might be doing, etc. Hopefully they will find that the human immune system doesn’t have to be suppressed either locally or systemically to upreg the correct pathways for the epidermal stem cells to make hair in response to the epidermal disruption. We will see.

Suggestion: READ the patent and all of the experiments in the patent. It will take about one hour or so. Google “Follica and kits patent” and you should get the WIPO patent in page 2 or so. After reading it, you will know pretty much what happened in experiments and why they think they can make brand new hair to be made out of human skin on real people in a cosmetically pleasing way. There is a paper about this in the Journal, Nature, also.

4

Yes, read the patents. I’ve been surfing this stuff here for a long time, and yet I still feel like I learn something new (or even just get reminded of something I forgot) almost every time I come here.

Internal drugs are named as possible methods in the patents.

I’ve done one round of experiments that way as it is, and so have others. We may stop that route because the list of necessary drugs is getting nastier as we progress. I wish it wasn’t the case, because oral ingestion single-handedly demolishes ALL the zillions of unknown variables with topical formulations and absorptions.

But Benji got pretty blasted with a very brief run of oral Genfilitib. And immune suppressants probably have to be at notable strengths just to be effective for this gig, so systemic use is probably out just because of that alone.

As for the immune suppression issue, that’s right about where we are right now.

My own last round of experimenting pretty much slammed the door shut on the idea that the EGF-R inhibitor alone will work. At least in my own opinion. I had pretty much every possible variable taken into account, and I still didn’t get very significant amounts of hair out of it.

5

My take on why immunos are mentioned is that you are generating “New” follicles where there aren’t any previously. Your immune system is suppressing/preventing this from happening because it is it viewing the new organ (hair) as a foreign invader. Skin is the biggest organ in the body, hair is actually a modified type of skin and is considered an organ. A healthy immune system, I’m guessing, is rejecting this from happening. I’m convinced that baccy’s regrowth are rejuvenated old hairs from the past because I saw no growth on the temples. I agree that there is something more than just wounding, wait 3 days and apply getfitnib (egf-r inhibitor) for 10-14 days. I think either the timing of boosting wnt or inhibiting (if you need to do this at all) it for a period and maybe topical immunos are used short term to make this work.

6

I’m going to try the topical immunosuppression with tacro but I’m working right at the limit of the line I will not cross. I wouldn’t recommend taking internal immunosuppressants to anybody.
So basically,with my next round, I’m doing the topical immunosuppression and I’m doing the wnt inhibition (orally with apple polyphenols, curcumin and quercetin) for a few days during epithelization. When scabs begin to fall, I will begin applying the topical tacro. On top of that, I will apply the EGF inhibitor (tannic acid), the wnt promoter (lithium orotate), caffeine (anti-DHT) all in emu oil. I will be taking the diphenhydramine internally. Only problem with that is possible drowsiness but it might be counteracted by the caffeine.

7

» I’m going to try the topical immunosuppression with tacro but I’m working
» right at the limit of the line I will not cross. I wouldn’t recommend
» taking internal immunosuppressants to anybody.
» So basically,with my next round, I’m doing the topical immunosuppression
» and I’m doing the wnt inhibition (orally with apple polyphenols, curcumin
» and quercetin) for a few days during epithelization. When scabs begin to
» fall, I will begin applying the topical tacro. On top of that, I will apply
» the EGF inhibitor (tannic acid), the wnt promoter (lithium orotate),
» caffeine (anti-DHT) all in emu oil. I will be taking the diphenhydramine
» internally. Only problem with that is possible drowsiness but it might be
» counteracted by the caffeine.

Baccy, can’t you get getfitinib from benji or something. It sounds like you will have all the major things covered here but I wish you have getfitinib instead of tannic acid.

8

» Baccy, can’t you get getfitinib from benji or something. It sounds like
» you will have all the major things covered here but I wish you have
» getfitinib instead of tannic acid.

I won’t take that stuff. It’s crossing the line as far as I’m concerned.

9

» » Baccy, can’t you get getfitinib from benji or something. It sounds like
» » you will have all the major things covered here but I wish you have
» » getfitinib instead of tannic acid.
»
» I won’t take that stuff. It’s crossing the line as far as I’m concerned.

Topically, instead of tannic acid.

10

»
» Topically, instead of tannic acid.

I hear what you’re saying m8 but that stuff is so damned nasty that I wouldn’t want to risk systemic absorption.