Hairsite, when will Histogen\'s answers will be published?

Stem cell; cell based hair therapy
21

You guys are really wishful thinkers.
Can’t you see the truth?
Histogen didn’t publish the 5-month results at the ISHRS. Why? Simply because they were bad.
Also, lets remember that Histogen’s HSC was tested on thinning scalps, not on totally bald areas. This is very lame. It is relatively easy to revive hairs on thinning areas.

So I think the results are pretty dissappointing. I don’t know if re-formulation or over-dosing will improve the situation, but my uninformed guess is that they won’t. Of course it is up to them to try.

If the hairs are lost after 5 months, this is a big drawback. I expect ARI’s hairs to be maintained indefinitely, as they were generated from DP cells collected at the back of the head.

In spite of this dissapointment, I must praise Histogen for admitting that the results decline after 5-month. It is pretty uncommon for these companies to admit failures. They always try to prolong the hype until they get bankrupt and it is ovious that they failed.

Lets remember the positive things about Histogen:

  1. Histogen has published wonderful photos of the trial (at 3 months).
  2. They have been brave and honest enough to admit the failure.

» » I think the guy from histogen spoke on radio. I heard some of it
» » but not all.I didnt hear anything groundbreaking but what stayed with me
» is
» » that i think he said that after 3 months the results that they saw
» started
» » to decline so that means that propably repeating injections will be
» » necessary from time to time.
»
» I can understand a successful treatment where you have to repeat
» injections or whatever, but after only three months?
»
» Seriously, if this “treatment” only works for 3 months before the hair
» starts thinning again, then it is not really a treatment at all.
»
» Some people have suggested that it could be a successful treatment if the
» injections are repeated, so that the hair regeneration effect adds up
» cumulatively and you end up with a thick head of hair.
»
» But if the hairs spontaneously fall out after 3 months, even that idea
» goes down the toilet. If this is true, then this treatment is really a lot
» worse than Propecia, and probably worse than Rogaine, too.
»
» If the hairs grown by Histogen only last 3 months, then this is a very
» weak treatment which is very temporary, and is not regenerating hairs in a
» reliable, long-lasting manner. It is probably only giving a little
» temporary stimulation to the follicles, not really regenerating hairs or
» causing new hairs to grow.
»
» And Histogen plans on charging people for this???
»
» The real joke here is they’re hyping it to this extent now, while saying
» that its release is 5 years away.
»
» I mean, really, who cares about this? Don’t people here have better
» things to do with their time than drool over some faint hope of growing
» hairs that only last 3 months? They probably are so weak, too, that they
» fall out when you brush them. Which only adds to the futility and
» ridiculousness of all this hype.
»
» Why would I care about waiting 5 years for a product that can only grow
» hairs that last for 3 months?

22

they will have to prove that, namely, that they can create new hair in the donor area. They will have to try HSC on a guy whose donor area has been severely depleted by repeated FUE treatments. Lets see if HSC can replenish that area, and that hairs are durable.

» » If they did manage to switch on the anagen phase of hair cycle (even
» though
» » the hair falls out after 3 months), there is a good chance they can
» alter
» » the formula and make the anagen phase last longer.
»
»
» guys i am listening to it now again and they say after 5 months the
» results started to fall back.
»
» He said that the results were from a preliminary study for safety…they
» show an increase in the number of terminal hairs in 85% of people who
» participated also general thickening of the hair that were there. no
» adverse reactions or anything and it didnt need any stimulating of the
» scalp of any kind. they showed this after 3 months and the hair were normal
» in thickness and direction…it was only one injection of a little
» medicine.Only one injection so things might change if they use a stronger
» concentration and more shots…also he implied that in the mean time you
» can use some topical of some kind to hold the results longer.And then they
» show a slight decrease after 5 MONTHS
»
» ALSO HE SAID SOMETHING WHICH I FIND AMAZING.He said that the compound
» would not work on scarred areas because someone asked if it can help grow
» follicles in transplant scars.He said no but what might be possible is
» inject this thing in the donor area and then more hair will grow there!!!so
» you will have a really thick donor area for fue transplants!!!Then when
» you have an FUE procedure and inject the donor area before it heals so more
» follicles will grow and if you do that again and again you might create a
» donor that never runs out!!!This is huge it means that even if it doesnt
» grow hair on the recipient of people who have lost their hair for years and
» they dont have live follicles…it can ata least make your donor to never
» run out so you can have a transplant with infinite donor hair!!!

23

» they will have to prove that, namely, that they can create new hair in the
» donor area. They will have to try HSC on a guy whose donor area has been
» severely depleted by repeated FUE treatments. Lets see if HSC can replenish
» that area, and that hairs are durable.

as I understood from the show they are planing to make these studies, maybe it will be a part of phase II

24

» » they will have to prove that, namely, that they can create new hair in
» the
» » donor area. They will have to try HSC on a guy whose donor area has
» been
» » severely depleted by repeated FUE treatments. Lets see if HSC can
» replenish
» » that area, and that hairs are durable.
»
» as I understood from the show they are planing to make these studies,
» maybe it will be a part of phase II.

ok, they are welcome then. Histogen has a transparent policy comunicating results, so it will be a pleasure to “stay tuned”.

25

» alert! that s a load of crap, we are all born with a fixed # of
» follicles, these people r trying to sell this like they can multiply
» follicles and create unlimited follicles for fue, get real

I totally acree with Mr.Frodo.

It isn’t possible to grow back new hair to donor area if they have removed them during HT session completely and moved to another place. It just sounds crazy! If it would be true then you can make Histogen injections to any part of your body where you even don’t have hairs and do you believe after injection on that area you can have new hairs there?. No way!

26

» » alert! that s a load of crap, we are all born with a fixed # of
» » follicles, these people r trying to sell this like they can multiply
» » follicles and create unlimited follicles for fue, get real
»
» I totally acree with Mr.Frodo.
»
» It isn’t possible to grow back new hair to donor area if they have removed
» them during HT session completely and moved to another place. It just
» sounds crazy! If it would be true then you can make Histogen injections to
» any part of your body where you even don’t have hairs and do you believe
» after injection on that area you can have new hairs there?. No way!

that is what follica is trying to do… and they are using the same “wnt”, and they(Histogen) grow new hairs in balding areas. Its possible I think

27

I agree it is an irresponsible comment to suggest that the treatment can create unlimited follicles for FUE. Besides, if the hair regrowth is not sustainable like some of you have mentioned, can you imagine what a disaster it would be to have a hair transplant using those unstable follicles?

28

» alert!

This is what I was thinking for a long time about Histogen.

The packed authoritative scientific board of directors and well-done website seem to suggest “legitimate operation”, while the vagueness of their claims, especially their fuzzy explanations of how “WNT signaling” works in this particular case, seem to mean that we should look at this whole thing with a healthy dose of skepticism.

First of all, before “rev” gets all worked up into a tizzy like he does about all my posts, I am not suggesting that “WNT signaling” is not real. I agree that it is a real phenomenon, scientifically more-or-less understood, and that there are enough research facts in evidence to suggest it does have an influence on hair growth. So I’m not saying the concept is B.S. at all.

Nor am I suggesting these Histogen people are out to dupe us and swindle our money, outright.

What I am suggesting is that they may be a little over-enthusiastic about the efficacy of their own product, and are blasting full-bore ahead on this, with a lot of unproven (or shakily-proven) hype, that has yet to be borne out by clear and convincing evidence.

The hype does not equal the evidence.

I am suggesting that these Histogen people don’t even know what the true efficacy of their own product will ultimately be, and they haven’t even remotely proven to themselves that this stuff will produce lasting, cosmetically-good results.

They seem to be latching on to a hope.

I think their plan is to do clinical trials, and:

  1. If it turns out to work at least as well as minoxidil, they’ll apply with the FDA for drug approval.

  2. If it turns out to have poor or marginal efficacy, they’ll try to sell it to some other biotech company and/or try to market it through third parties, as some kind of cosmetic additive to shampoos, hair tonics, etc. – you know, the kinds of B.S. snake-oils that we often see advertised in little boxes at the backs of men’s magazines.

Note that I am not drawing any conclusions about the promise of WNT signaling itself. This product may or may not be a good use of WNT signaling (although I see little evidence that it is, at this point.)

What I am saying is that Histogen may be “latching onto” WNT signaling as sort of the “flavor of the month” in hairloss research. They may have found a formula that takes advantage of the phenomenon, but is far from the most effective way to do it.

Since they don’t know one way or another at this point, they are falling back on that time-honored, All-American practice of marketing and PR hype.

29

thanks, SpanishDude.

And also see my other post on this thread, in answer to Mr Frodo.

30

You guys are really wishful thinkers.
Can’t you see the truth?
Histogen didn’t publish the 5-month results at the ISHRS. Why? Simply because they were bad.
Oh I don’t know, maybe because they’re still accumulating the data? Maybe because Ziering admitted hair regrowth slowed down at the 5month mark. Maybe because this was based off only one measly injection. Maybe because this is a safety trial only?

Also, lets remember that Histogen’s HSC was tested on thinning scalps, not on totally bald areas. This is very lame. It is relatively easy to revive hairs on thinning areas.
What’s so lame about it? Everybody else tests thinning areas before they proceed to the tougher ones.

So I think the results are pretty dissappointing. I don’t know if re-formulation or over-dosing will improve the situation, but my uninformed guess is that they won’t. Of course it is up to them to try.
That’s a neat trick. You apparently know more than Histogen does at the moment. That’s freaking amazing. Quick, tell me what I’m having for breakfast 13months from now; I don’t know the answer, but apparently you do.

If the hairs are lost after 5 months, this is a big drawback. I expect ARI’s hairs to be maintained indefinitely, as they were generated from DP cells collected at the back of the head.
Who said hair was lost? More to the point, who told you this was an efficacy trial?

31

» thanks, SpanishDude.
»
» And also see my other post on this thread, in answer to Mr Frodo.

I have just read it, and I agree with you.
Histogen is “promising”, just like ICX was.
Time will tell, if this “promise” becomes reality. Maybe… but it is hard. I am old in this forum.

32

» Oh I don’t know, maybe because they’re still accumulating the data? Maybe
» because Ziering admitted hair regrowth slowed down at the 5month mark.
» Maybe because this was based off only one measly injection. Maybe because
» this is a safety trial only?

Do you like pointless discussions, rev?
Dr. Ziering Interview at the Bald Truth Show:
min 17:55: "at 5 months we saw a little bit of a drop off"
In my collins dictionary, drop-off means “reduction”.

» What’s so lame about it? Everybody else tests thinning areas before they
» proceed to the tougher ones.

You are right. This is because so far, everybody else have been lame and charlatans.

»
»
» So I think the results are pretty dissappointing. I don’t know
» if re-formulation or over-dosing will improve the situation, but my
» uninformed guess is that they won’t. Of course it is up to them to
» try.
» That’s a neat trick. You apparently know more than Histogen does at the
» moment. That’s freaking amazing. Quick, tell me what I’m having for
» breakfast 13months from now; I don’t know the answer, but apparently you
» do.

I know what happened with ICX. In Phase II they tried different doses and delivery methods over the safety trial. No improvements. Only the “prestimulation” or “dermabration” seemed to give some improvement.
Simmilar for Vavelta.

I know this is not the same technology. Thats why I said “my uninformed guess”.

In this trial, new hairs were created, and they looked perfectly healthy, but after 5 months they start to fall. I think this will happen too whatever the dose. These hairs are inherently weak, probably they die because they are DHT vulnerable.

Just an uninformed guess, again.

33

In my collins dictionary, drop-off means “reduction”.
Did the hair from the 3 month mark fall out? NO? So how is that a reduction?
You make it sound like the hair attained after 3 months suddenly fell-out at the 5 month mark. Hair doesn’t cycle like that.

Also, why the heck are we still talking about this again? You know, full well, this was merely a safety trial.
THIS WAS NOT AN EFFICACY TRIAL!!

34

» In my collins dictionary, drop-off means “reduction”.
» Did the hair from the 3 month mark fall out? NO? So how is that a
» reduction?
» You make it sound like the hair attained after 3 months suddenly fell-out
» at the 5 month mark. Hair doesn’t cycle like that.

If there was a reduction after the 3-month mark, is because some of the hair gained at 3 months, was lost at 5 months.
probably, at 7 months, all of it will be lost.

»
» Also, why the heck are we still talking about this again? You know, full
» well, this was merely a safety trial.
» THIS WAS NOT AN EFFICACY TRIAL!!

Maybe, maybe. We will see. But as I have said before, I think that the short-lived condition of the new hairs in the safety trial, won’t change in an efficacy trial. I hope I am wrong.

35

» » In my collins dictionary, drop-off means
» “reduction”.
» » Did the hair from the 3 month mark fall out? NO? So how is that a
» » reduction?
» » You make it sound like the hair attained after 3 months suddenly
» fell-out
» » at the 5 month mark. Hair doesn’t cycle like that.
»
» If there was a reduction after the 3-month mark, is because some of the
» hair gained at 3 months, was lost at 5 months.
» probably, at 7 months, all of it will be lost.

Comments like that make me grind my teeth.

36

» alert! that s a load of crap, we are all born with a fixed # of
» follicles, these people r trying to sell this like they can multiply
» follicles and create unlimited follicles for fue, get real

Ever hear of Follica? Dr. Cotsarelis demonstrated you’re not limited to a fixed number of follicles.

alert averted!!!

37

» » alert! that s a load of crap, we are all born with a fixed # of
» » follicles, these people r trying to sell this like they can multiply
» » follicles and create unlimited follicles for fue, get real
»
» Ever hear of Follica? Dr. Cotsarelis demonstrated you’re not limited to a
» fixed number of follicles.
»
» alert averted!!!

If you get Histogen injection for example to hand where you don’t have any hair do you have new hair there after injection? From where new hair start growing if you don’t have any hair roots there (if you have had fue then you removed hair roots from donor area and you can’t have there more hairs without hair multiplication)? You must be kidding. I’m not scientist but i believe that you can get more hair only if you multiply them in lab and inject new dp cells back to skin. Thats why i have all my hopes on ARI atm. I believe hair multiplication can be only best solution for bald people. Drugs sucks…

38

» If you get Histogen injection for example to hand where you don’t have any
» hair do you have new hair there after injection? From where new hair start
» growing if you don’t have any hair roots there (if you have had fue then
» you removed hair roots from donor area and you can’t have there more hairs
» without hair multiplication)? You must be kidding. I’m not scientist but i
» believe that you can get more hair only if you multiply them in lab and
» inject new dp cells back to skin. Thats why i have all my hopes on ARI atm.
» I believe hair multiplication can be only best solution for bald people.
» Drugs sucks…

I have no idea why people are adding more to this story.
Good luck growing hair - from scratch - in scar tissue (even with ARI unless their tech involves proto hairs). We also know Dr Jones had no success regrowing hair in a strip scar repair using Acell. That’s why Dr. Ziering was suggesting growing a higher volume of hair in a virgin portion of the scalp, AND moving those extra hairs - via FUE - to the scar tissue.

39

» Dr. Cotsarelis demonstrated you’re not limited to a
» fixed number of follicles.

Is it “you” a mouse with human skin attached to “it” ?

40

» » » In my collins dictionary, drop-off means
» » “reduction”.
» » » Did the hair from the 3 month mark fall out? NO? So how is that a
» » » reduction?
» » » You make it sound like the hair attained after 3 months suddenly
» » fell-out
» » » at the 5 month mark. Hair doesn’t cycle like that.
» »
» » If there was a reduction after the 3-month mark, is because some of the
» » hair gained at 3 months, was lost at 5 months.
» » probably, at 7 months, all of it will be lost.
»
» Comments like that make me grind my teeth.

I have never been more confused.We have more information but it did not add any clarity to the story, only confusion.