Home | News | Find a Doctor | Ask a Question | Free

For baccy


#1

baccy,

tagohl noted that when wnt was inhibited in days 1-10 in mice, the results were good…

I’d imagine if youd inhibit wnt on days 1-3 (and maybe 4) post wounding, with quercetin post wounding…it might up your results. I think that if you could keep shampoo off it for a week it might be helpful.

A note on caffiene…I dont see why you couldn’t just take a great deal of caffeine internally during this time (it will also help suppress the immune system).

the wounds in the patent, like TAGOHL pointed out, were only 1-2 cms in size, with the new follicles coming near the center of the wounds…Perhaps a great many small abraded areas?

If I were you, and were going about it the way you are. I think I’d try depilation, 3 days, wound—take quercetin or drink a bunch of tea for three days (a lot of quercetin in tea), on day four or five I’d start taking a bunch of milk thistle and maybe use some diluted (in purified water or water that has set out so the chlorine had evaporated) tannic acid. I might take some internal arginine (ups NO), and perhaps some anti-histamine with some fish oil (good anti-inflammatory). I’d avoid washing my noggin’ for 7 or 8 days where I wounded.

I’d like to see you have success in particular, because you really have dove into this head first (no pun intended).

I have a sinking feeling that we are going to find out that the immune system will have to be suppressed in humans for this to go. If not, then why dont people who get sunburned shoulders (thats happened to me several times in my youth) grow hair on them? The one variable that was present in the experiments and the two freak getfitinib growth photos were compromised immune systems (people on getfitinib almost assuredly had been on chemo with very suppressed immunity from the chemo). The SCID mice with human skin ont their backs were SCID mice with no immune systems. EGF-antagonists merely increased the amount of hairs in the little wounds (1-2 cms in circumference, there are 2.54 cm per inch…so this is about half an inch square wounds).

Internal caffeine suppresses immunity somewhat. Binge up on the diet cokes I suppose…

I hope you grow some hair. I sure as hell would be excited if you did, as I’d love to not try it with what I’ll probably try it with in January (4 days of cyclo and getfitinib about 4-days post wounding).

Good luck whenever you try it.

PS…it really is amazing how the skin heals post abrasion. I use prox-n peptides, and you cannot tell that two and a half weeks ago I used a TCA peel up there and did some manual abrasion at all. Skin is smooth…its weird how fast my skin regenerates. I wonder if we will find out someday that bald men’s scalps have too much epidermal growth capabilities and this might have been part of what goes wrong when the skin grows over our noggin’s in fetal development? Just a thought.

PSS…I have had for many years one “whack” hair between one eye and my side hairline. I had been cut there at work (walked into something), and it bled. There is a weird hair there that is about one inch long, the color of my head hair, there to this day. Its got a “curl” thing going on (always did). Its a big thick terminal hair, but doesn’t seem to grow long (considering that its on my temple between my eye and side hair thats not a suprise. That one whack hair is one of the reasons Ive been excited about follica. I didn’t have that thing before that accident…


#2

» If not, then
» why dont people who get sunburned shoulders (thats happened to me several
» times in my youth) grow hair on them?

why should be like that ?


#3

This is my suggested protocol for my next try.

Depilate and wait 3 days. Then wound and begin taking quercetin and curcumin orally. Also take diphenhydramine orally as a anti-histamine/anti-inflammatory. This is alongside fish oil caps and arginine. After scabs begin to fall off, cease quercetin and curcumin and begin applying topical. Topical will consist of:

A coating of tacrolimus ointment. Wait until absorbed and then apply main topical. Main topical will be:
Tannic acid, milk thistle, caffeine, lithium orotate and dmso all mixed in pure emu oil. Topical to be applied for 10 days.

I’m waiting for some bits and pieces to be delivered so I’m looking at beginning in a couple of weeks. If anyone can see any drawbacks to my proposed protocol, I’m open to suggestions. During the entire experiment, I will not be washing my head even with water.


#4

» This is my suggested protocol for my next try.
»
» Depilate and wait 3 days. Then wound and begin taking quercetin and
» curcumin orally. Also take diphenhydramine orally as a
» anti-histamine/anti-inflammatory. This is alongside fish oil caps and
» arginine. After scabs begin to fall off, cease quercetin and curcumin and
» begin applying topical. Topical will consist of:
»
» A coating of tacrolimus ointment. Wait until absorbed and then apply main
» topical. Main topical will be:
» Tannic acid, milk thistle, caffeine, lithium orotate and dmso all mixed in
» pure emu oil. Topical to be applied for 10 days.
»
» I’m waiting for some bits and pieces to be delivered so I’m looking at
» beginning in a couple of weeks. If anyone can see any drawbacks to my
» proposed protocol, I’m open to suggestions. During the entire experiment, I
» will not be washing my head even with water.

I think you should drop out immune system before wounding so what about
apply tacrolimus i.e. some day before depilate ?


#5

Baccy, am I correct in recalling that you used an alpha lipoic
acid carrier in the early phase of your previous experiment
(when you were actually using quercetin with lithium orotate)?
What type of source did you use for this ingredient… a
preformulated creme or some type of supplement tablets perhaps?

Can anyone speculate on whether this substance could
significantly affect the efficiency of topical delivery
of lithium by some type of chelation mechanism?


#6

» Baccy, am I correct in recalling that you used an alpha lipoic
» acid carrier in the early phase of your previous experiment
» (when you were actually using quercetin with lithium orotate)?
» What type of source did you use for this ingredient… a
» preformulated creme or some type of supplement tablets perhaps?
»
» Can anyone speculate on whether this substance could
» significantly affect the efficiency of topical delivery
» of lithium by some type of chelation mechanism?

alpha lipoic is supposedly a synergist for milk thistle. might be worth reading into


#7

» » If not, then
» » why dont people who get sunburned shoulders (thats happened to me
» several
» » times in my youth) grow hair on them?
»
» why should be like that ?

sunburns, when they peel, cause a state of reepilithialization in the skin. The upper epidermis is burnt, and peels away. Sunburns (burns) are mentioned in the patent as a means to produce a state of re-epilithialization in the skin.

The whole thing is contingent on getting the upper layer of the dermis “destroyed” or rubbed away so that the skin crusts and falls off or peepls off revealing the layer beneath. The layer beneath will then have to “build” a new outer layer of the epidermis. If you block epidermal growth factor at the appropriate time, it will have to build hair follicles instead (hair follicles are the command center for signalling in the skin, and hair follicles give off the instructions for the skin to rejuvinate). However some of us (including me) think that the local immune system might have to be suppressed for this to occur. I hope Im wrong about that.

The reason I say that is in the experiments with human skin, hair grew. But that human skin was on SCID mice with no immune system.

In the two freak getfitinib growth photos (bald scalp and terminal hair on a nose), both patients would have been cancer patients on chemotherapy. Chemo severely suppresses the immune system and can destroy immune funtion altoghether…so their immune systems were also compromised.

If it wasn’t “this way”, then about everybody with really bad sunburns would probably get some freak hair growing in places, so why dont they?

TAGOHL also brought up a good point. In the experiments only 1-2 cm square wounds were induced. The hairs “made” came at the center of these little wounds. Perhaps there is an upper limit to how big the wounds can be? It all sounds far fetched Sceptic. It does to me too. However, the getfitinib photos that Debris posted sure aren’t rejivinated hairs or anything. Follica tested this with some genetically hairless mice also, so they know they made new hairs where there were none. The human skin series of experiments at the University of Pennsylvania used skin that was discarded from plastic surgery that didn’t have terminal hairs in it, and they were able to make terminal hair. The Journal, Nature, has written about this, so we know it happens.

I just hope that MPB-scalp doesn’t have a trick up its sleeve that makes consistent success elusive.

I have a sinking feeling that skin will have to be wounded, and then someone will have to be on both cyclo and getfitinib for 4-5 days BOTH to make it work…all without washing the hair or having any “anti-infective” (wording in the patent) come into contact with the skin cells from the wounding date until a good week or even two afterwars. The wounds might also have to be a series of small ones. The testing at Harvard will have to haggle all these variables out.

In retrospect Sceptic, you are probably right that a working protocol is going to be a couple of more years than expected. Its not that I dont think it wont work-----it has and it will, but finding out exactly how to get consistent results and what they have to do post wounding, the exact wound size and depth, what to block and what to upregulate will take them several volunteers and probably more “rounds” of experimentation. They can stagger the testing so that many different approaches are tried to find the optimal ones.
Yet even then, the question becomes “will this be androgen sensitive hair?” Will it grow well for one 3-6 year cycle and succumb to male hormone? Will upping EDAR (ectodysplasin) signalling or suppressing the androgen receptor in the skin during the hairs formation make the hairs like donor hairs? There are many unknowns.

I am, however, confident Sceptic, that out of Aderans (phase two now in America), Histogen, Follica, and more remotely ACELL, that ONE of these companies will have an answer. The math is getting to be on our side now in this. Its hard to imagine all of them will fall on their faces.


#8

» I think you should drop out immune system before wounding so what about
» apply tacrolimus i.e. some day before depilate ?

Good point. I can do that.


#9

» What type of source did you use for this ingredient… a
» preformulated creme or some type of supplement tablets perhaps?

It was a preformulated cream originally intended for facial application.
»