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Follica home experiment update


#21

Topical may indeed be better than oral.

But trying to do things topically opens up a can of worms about how/if you’re getting things adequately into the skin. Meanwhile Folica itself seems to think that oral ingestion will work fine.

The fact is that we still do not have a single clear money shot of regrown hairs using anything related to Folica’s project.

The EGF-R inhibitors, when to take things in relation to the wound date, the depth of the wound, the immune system angle, the WNT issue . . . we don’t KNOW any of this. For all our talking and experimenting, almost 100% of this stuff still remains almost 100% unconfirmed right now.

You guys try whatever you want. Anything learned will help the group. But me, I’m staying oral for now.


#22

» First, let me tell you that I appreciate your work and the work of your
» friends, Not only me who’s appreciating but the whole board (except a
» minority) and I think I can speak for them here.
»
» 1/I like you think that the topical pathway to EGF-R is probably better
» than the oral one.

I believe this this is the way. Taking getfitnib orally is insane imo. Although it will not kill you, look at the side effects it can cause. I can’t imagine this is the way to go unless you go at it with very low doses. Maybe you can split the pill into qaurters and take 62.5mg per day. But as you can see by the few that has done the the full 250mg route, there is nothing to report except bad side effects.

» 2/Can you explain please, why do you think that the guy who’s trying in a
» different board will fail ?

I’ve done a single 30% tca peel on one of my temples with no results, he is doing a single 20% peel with topical getfitnib. He will see no results. On my other temple, I did layer after layer for a good 30 mins in the bathroom about 5 minutes apart waiting for the last layer to self neutralize. The burning sensation was a little uncomforatable but not unbearable. I applied, sat there and had a cigarette and drank beer to help me past the time between applications. The experience wasn’t that bad. That temple sprouted a very even coat of vellous hairs.

» 3/Can you explain please what’s the message that you want us to relay it
» over the regrowth board ?

Just simply, his single 20% won’t do because someone here did that with no results. I’ve reading these boards for a while now and from my experience, it is deeper than most think to get anything going. You don’t go so deep where you can hurt yourself obviously

» 4/What sizes of wound you suggest ? as you said that size is as important
» as depth.

I don’t know but but poking holes won’t get you anything significant. Maybe you can rejuvenate some old follicles doing this. I think baccy can attest to this with the area being important. I’m think about doing the whole scalp next, this should take care of the area. I’m considering doing a 25% tca peel 5x’s over the scalp on my next attempt. BTW, what I did last time did seem to bring back some of the old hairs at the hairline and they are growing. I went way below where my mature hairline should be. This is the area I’m talking about here with my wounding + getfitnib. I’ll take bringing back all the old follicles but I’m trying to grow new ones. In other words, I’m being greedy. I’ve had too bad years with a F@cked up hairline and think it’s time for payback.

» 5/Are you aware that Cotsarelis pointed out in his papers that a
» depilation of the hair pre-procedure’d bring an 11 tiems yield increase .

I am aware of this, but there is nothing to depilate on my bald temples. If it is the quantity you’re worried about, you shouldn’t. Let me say again, my “new growth” temple is absolutely filled with vellous activity. I am impressed with what I see. What I don’t like is quality of it. It’s there and barely visible. It did grow a little and became slightly more pigmented since I first noticed it but that is about it for now. It has been a few months. Will it ever go full terminal? I have my doubts and is getting impatient.

» 6/Are you aware of the Wnt effect on hair growth in the Follica procedure
» ?

I don’t know what you mean by this. As far as I know, upregulate the wnt protein and you get hair growth. I did not use lithium because it was not mentioned in the 2nd patent by who knows, it could still be in the mix with follica when they are all said and done. They still have the use of lithium covered in their first patent which I believe is still valid. I’m not a science guy, I’m just a regular schmoo like most of you guys here. I did the experiment and did the way I thought it should be done which is the topical route. Had I did just one or two layers of peeling and seen no results, I would have never posted here. I actually thought I was stupid to do that many peels on that one temple (maybe it was there beer that made me do it), but I no doubt see sprouts covering the whole area that seems like it would take 5 years to grow out to an inch. 5 layers of peel is a stupid thing to do, especially if you’ve never done this b4. But look at what I accidently stumbled across. I seriously think multi-layer peeling + topical getfitnib is the direction to go. I applied 24 hours post wounding for 2 weeks, maybe I should have waited or maybe I should have used lithium prior or during. Maybe I should have been on topical immunesuppressants during treatment to get better results. I don’t know. I kid you not that this caused sprouts. Perhaps some here can take this to the next level in terms of qaulity and growth.


#23

» Topical may indeed be better than oral.
»
» But trying to do things topically opens up a can of worms about how/if
» you’re getting things adequately into the skin. Meanwhile Folica itself
» seems to think that oral ingestion will work fine.

This just sounds like most of you just don’t know how to mix this up and it is easier to just swallow a pill. Where did u see or hear that follica thinks oral ingestion will work fine? I honestly don’t remember myself but I think that they left this very issue very vague. There is mention of dmso in the patent. That will help it absorb. To help you guys out. This is what I did.

250mg of getfitnib mixed in 10ml of dmso, 10ml everclear (whole grain alcohol), 10ml of propyline glycol and 10 ml of of distilled water.

I had trouble still getting the pill to totally dissolve in my jar mainly because of the inactive waxy coating used to hold the getfitnib powder together. Seal the jar tight, run the jar under hot water for 15 seconds and shake. Repeat process until the pill is totally dissolved. DMSO will get the drug in topically and straight to the source. No side effects but your breath will stink for a while because of the 25% dmso content. Apply with an eye dropper that you can buy at pharmacy. You can apply 3-4 ml a day/ 2 x’s a day for 2 to 3 weeks if you like. This mixture will leave your scalp moist for a good 2 hours. You can apply again 6 hours apart.
»
»
»
» The fact is that we still do not have a single clear money shot of regrown
» hairs using anything related to Folica’s project.
»
I definitely see some hairs regrowing on my mature hairline, it is the one’s below I want also that is the trouble part. Yes, I’m not happy with my intended mature hairline. To each his own right?

» The EGF-R inhibitors, when to take things in relation to the wound date,
» the depth of the wound, the immune system angle, the WNT issue . . . we
» don’t KNOW any of this. For all our
» talking and experimenting, almost 100% of this stuff still remains almost
» 100% unconfirmed right now.
»
You are right, but first things first. Topical over oral, multi-layer over single layer peel. Area matters. Let’s start here and deal with other things like timing and other drugs to aid this process
»
»
» You guys try whatever you want. Anything learned will help the group.
» But me, I’m staying oral for now.

Good luck! But make sure you do multiple layers and a large area, I’m pretty sure of that. BTW, how deep did benji and tagohl go, I bet you it wasn’t nearly enough. Baccy, on the the other hand, i felt did but used something else as an egf-r inhibitor. I’m hoping you get better results than me but I hate to think about the oral route but will do it if that’s what it takes. I bet you you phenol will do but who in their right mind would want to try this outside of the doctors office? I think that is why they mentioned weaker peels in the patent. Follica themselves don’t know exactly how deep but they probably have a good idea. With weaker peels, you can go multiple layers without the danger of phenol.


#24

Is it just me or doesn’t it make more sense doing the experiment the topical route first since it safer than taking it orally? If the topical route don’t work first, then try oral. Like I said b4, to each his own…I’m not here to argue will anyone, I’m just reporting what happened to me. I know I’m not an isolated person that is experimenting and have not reported b4. There are others and you know follica is watching these types of threads. Hi Follica!:wink:


#25

Frakiebaby, now wait! I recognized ur writing style. Is that u Frankie N.? Damn, u even write like ur a pr!ck. Lol. For those of u who r wondering, I know him personally as we went to high school together and beyond. He’s pretty much a straight shooter. Hey man, don’t say what u said and just leave. Who the hell is going to believe u? Jeez, stay and help out a little, lol. We split the getfitnib buy along with a few others. No wonder the things u talked about sound familiar as we discussed about how to do this b4 in the past. I will call u during the holidays to see what’s up and compare notes. Ur still a pr!ck u know, lol. But ur cool!


#26

Whats the nickname of the board contributor and whats the title of the thread over there ? I didt find him


#27

(As for wounding in my own experimentations, I’ll tell you in no uncertain terms that I went deep enough. I used sandpaper on a few smaller areas rather than peel up half my head with chemicals. I went deep enough with the scraping to start hitting blood in places.)

Several months ago when we were going through Folica patents like crazy, we had found “oral ingestion will work” in pretty flat terms.

Heck, look at Finasteride or Dut. Oral ingestion works like hell if you’ll tolerate the necessary amount. (How much DHT suppression would you withstand for a week or two in exchange for PERMANENT progress on the hair loss reversal? This is not unlike the situation we’re in with taking genfilitib/cyclo to experiment with Folica wounding.)

I’d love to switch to topical experimentation as soon as possible. But I feel like we’re all basically just pissing into the wind until we at least know for sure what regimen does the job here.


#28

» (As for wounding in my own experimentations, I’ll tell you in no uncertain
» terms that I went deep enough. I used sandpaper on a few smaller areas
» rather than peel up half my head with chemicals. I went deep enough with
» the scraping to start hitting blood in places.)
»
»
»
» Several months ago when we were going through Folica patents like crazy,
» we had found “oral ingestion will work” in pretty flat terms.
»
» Heck, look at Finasteride or Dut. Oral ingestion works like hell if
» you’ll tolerate the necessary amount. (How much DHT suppression would you
» withstand for a week or two in exchange for PERMANENT progress on the hair
» loss reversal? This is not unlike the situation we’re in with taking
» genfilitib/cyclo to experiment with Folica wounding.)
»
»
»
» I’d love to switch to topical experimentation as soon as possible. But I
» feel like we’re all basically just pissing into the wind until we at least
» know for sure what regimen does the job here.

cal,

Your comparison to Fin or Dut cant stand here, in fact it might even support the idea that topical application is perhaps better. For fin and Dut you are looking for systemic impact, you take them long enough so that the whole body and its glands would go in with you, However, this whole Follica procedure is about cathing a very short and illusive Embryonic window.

Regards.


#29

» » First, let me tell you that I appreciate your work and the work of your
» » friends, Not only me who’s appreciating but the whole board (except a
» » minority) and I think I can speak for them here.
» »
» » 1/I like you think that the topical pathway to EGF-R is probably better
» » than the oral one.
»
» I believe this this is the way. Taking getfitnib orally is insane imo.
» Although it will not kill you, look at the side effects it can cause. I
» can’t imagine this is the way to go unless you go at it with very low
» doses. Maybe you can split the pill into qaurters and take 62.5mg per day.
» But as you can see by the few that has done the the full 250mg route,
» there is nothing to report except bad side effects.
»
» » 2/Can you explain please, why do you think that the guy who’s trying in
» a
» » different board will fail ?
»
» I’ve done a single 30% tca peel on one of my temples with no results, he
» is doing a single 20% peel with topical getfitnib. He will see no results.
» On my other temple, I did layer after layer for a good 30 mins in the
» bathroom about 5 minutes apart waiting for the last layer to self
» neutralize. The burning sensation was a little uncomforatable but not
» unbearable. I applied, sat there and had a cigarette and drank beer to
» help me past the time between applications. The experience wasn’t that
» bad. That temple sprouted a very even coat of vellous hairs.
»
» » 3/Can you explain please what’s the message that you want us to relay
» it
» » over the regrowth board ?
»
» Just simply, his single 20% won’t do because someone here did that with no
» results. I’ve reading these boards for a while now and from my experience,
» it is deeper than most think to get anything going. You don’t go so deep
» where you can hurt yourself obviously
»
» » 4/What sizes of wound you suggest ? as you said that size is as
» important
» » as depth.
»
» I don’t know but but poking holes won’t get you anything significant.
» Maybe you can rejuvenate some old follicles doing this. I think baccy can
» attest to this with the area being important. I’m think about doing the
» whole scalp next, this should take care of the area. I’m considering doing
» a 25% tca peel 5x’s over the scalp on my next attempt. BTW, what I did
» last time did seem to bring back some of the old hairs at the hairline and
» they are growing. I went way below where my mature hairline should be.
» This is the area I’m talking about here with my wounding + getfitnib. I’ll
» take bringing back all the old follicles but I’m trying to grow new ones.
» In other words, I’m being greedy. I’ve had too bad years with a F@cked up
» hairline and think it’s time for payback.
»
» » 5/Are you aware that Cotsarelis pointed out in his papers that a
» » depilation of the hair pre-procedure’d bring an 11 tiems yield increase
» .
»
» I am aware of this, but there is nothing to depilate on my bald temples.
» If it is the quantity you’re worried about, you shouldn’t. Let me say
» again, my “new growth” temple is absolutely filled with vellous activity.
» I am impressed with what I see. What I don’t like is quality of it. It’s
» there and barely visible. It did grow a little and became slightly more
» pigmented since I first noticed it but that is about it for now. It has
» been a few months. Will it ever go full terminal? I have my doubts and is
» getting impatient.
»
»
» » 6/Are you aware of the Wnt effect on hair growth in the Follica
» procedure
» » ?
»
» I don’t know what you mean by this. As far as I know, upregulate the wnt
» protein and you get hair growth. I did not use lithium because it was not
» mentioned in the 2nd patent by who knows, it could still be in the mix with
» follica when they are all said and done. They still have the use of
» lithium covered in their first patent which I believe is still valid. I’m
» not a science guy, I’m just a regular schmoo like most of you guys here. I
» did the experiment and did the way I thought it should be done which is the
» topical route. Had I did just one or two layers of peeling and seen no
» results, I would have never posted here. I actually thought I was stupid
» to do that many peels on that one temple (maybe it was there beer that made
» me do it), but I no doubt see sprouts covering the whole area that seems
» like it would take 5 years to grow out to an inch. 5 layers of peel is a
» stupid thing to do, especially if you’ve never done this b4. But look at
» what I accidently stumbled across. I seriously think multi-layer peeling +
» topical getfitnib is the direction to go. I applied 24 hours post wounding
» for 2 weeks, maybe I should have waited or maybe I should have used lithium
» prior or during. Maybe I should have been on topical immunesuppressants
» during treatment to get better results. I don’t know. I kid you not that
» this caused sprouts. Perhaps some here can take this to the next level in
» terms of qaulity and growth.

Could you take a picture of your regrowth? I think the board would benefit from seeing both the potentially rejuvenated follicles as well as the new vellous hairs. Thanks for the info.


#30

cal,

Your comparison to Fin or Dut cant stand here, in fact it might even support the idea that topical application is perhaps better. For fin and Dut you are looking for systemic impact, you take them long enough so that the whole body and its glands would go in with you, However, this whole Follica procedure is about cathing a very short and illusive Embryonic window.

Regards.

I don’t agree. At least not for the most part anyway.

If Fin/Dut needed to get into the whole system just to save our hairs, then what about RU58841 and other AA topicals known not to have systemic effects? These things wouldn’t have any notable impact on MPB, and by definition there would be no point even attepting to make topical AAs work.

A ton of the DHT that’s relevant to MPB seems to be manufactured in the follicle itself. There is some in the bloodstream affecting the hair follicle too, but the DHT that’s coming from within the follicle itself is probably something like 90% of the total issue.

The problem with topical Fin/Dut is that we can’t STOP them from going systemic even when it’s topically applied and we don’t want them to go systemic. It’s not that we NEED them to go systemic to work. So when it’s gonna go systemic no matter where you put it into the body, there’s no point in marketing the drug as a topical. A pill is much easier to use and higher selling in general.


#31

» cal,
»
» Your comparison to Fin or Dut cant stand here, in fact it might even
» support the idea that topical application is perhaps better. For fin and
» Dut you are looking for systemic impact, you take them long enough so that
» the whole body and its glands would go in with you, However, this whole
» Follica procedure is about cathing a very short and illusive Embryonic
» window.
»
» Regards.

»
» I don’t agree. At least not for the most part anyway.
»
» If Fin/Dut needed to get into the whole system just to save our hairs,
» then what about RU58841 and other AA topicals known not to have systemic
» effects? These things wouldn’t have any notable impact on MPB, and by
» definition there would be no point even attepting to make topical AAs
» work.
»
» A ton of the DHT that’s relevant to MPB seems to be manufactured in the
» follicle itself. There is some in the bloodstream affecting the hair
» follicle too, but the DHT that’s coming from within the follicle itself is
» probably something like 90% of the total issue.
»
» The problem with topical Fin/Dut is that we can’t STOP them from
» going systemic even when it’s topically applied and we don’t want them to
» go systemic. It’s not that we NEED them to go systemic to work. So
» when it’s gonna go systemic no matter where you put it into the body,
» there’s no point in marketing the drug as a topical. A pill is much easier
» to use and higher selling in general.

Where does it say in the patent that the egf-r must by absorbed systematically? I’m not saying you r wrong but I didn’t see it. I feel that dmso used to help dissolve the little red pill and to help it absorb through skin is enough for our purposes. BTW, I’ve used RU for 3 years, it worked great for one and then it lost its effectiveness.


#32

» Could you take a picture of your regrowth? I think the board would
» benefit from seeing both the potentially rejuvenated follicles as well as
» the new vellous hairs. Thanks for the info.

Ah, I was waiting for someone to ask this and thought about doing it but I don’t see the point. The hairs growing between my existiing hairs on my hairline are way shorter but growing and blends in. I don’t have any b4 pictures to compare it with to begin with. I only have my camera on my cheapie samsung phone that does not even pick up the acne on my face well let alone something as miniscule as the new growth of that one temple. I’ve tried and All I got was a blurry shot of a widows peak of a lighter shade. I’m hoping for it to thicken up so it could be more visually cosmetic so I can show u guys. If this happens I will get will buy a digital camera to take pictures as I will be thrilled. I 'm really plopping the minox foam right now 3x’s a day to get this to happen. The reason why I was over at regrowth b4 is that I was researching that guy over there building a laser helmet to help these suckers grow. That when I saw that a poster was trying the experiment. I will keep everyone informed anything positive happens. Enjoy the holidays. BTW, I’m over in Vegas during X-mas vacation with friends and someone will bring a camera I’m sure. It is a month away and we’ll see if it still progresses and I get some photos of both temples so u guys can compare. What grew on the temple does not grow at the same rate as the terminals, not even close.


#33

Ok, I got my hands briefly on a cheap camera and it doesn’t do it justice. I’m no expert in photography. You guys can use this as future reference if it progresses. Here is a close up shot with the macro mode. The flash is interfering a little. You can still see a little damage from the the peel. If you’re wondering, these weren’t there b4.


Crap, this is difficult. I’m trying to get a bigger close up here as it is not showing well. U might have to save to ur desktop at enlarge manually as there tons more that are lighter in color that doesn’t show up. Ok, this is edit. You’re seeing the one’s that are starting to get some pigmentation. I just got up and looked at the mirror at it at a side angle and I can see tons of lighter hairs that doesn’t show up in the picture, damn! I might have to wait for someone to help me with this.


#34

» Ok, I got my hands briefly on a cheap camera and it doesn’t do it justice.
» I’m no expert in photography. You guys can use this as future reference if
» it progresses. Here is a close up shot with the macro mode. The flash is
» interfering a little. You can still see a little damage from the the peel.
» If you’re wondering, these weren’t there b4.
Where is the pic?


#35

» » Ok, I got my hands briefly on a cheap camera and it doesn’t do it
» justice.
» » I’m no expert in photography. You guys can use this as future reference
» if
» » it progresses. Here is a close up shot with the macro mode. The flash
» is
» » interfering a little. You can still see a little damage from the the
» peel.
» » If you’re wondering, these weren’t there b4.
» Where is the pic?

I just did it, I told u guys I don’t usually post in forums let alone post pictures of myself. I did a bad job but I figured it out, jeez! I need to get my hands on a better camera in the future.


#36

» » » Ok, I got my hands briefly on a cheap camera and it doesn’t do it
» » justice.
» » » I’m no expert in photography. You guys can use this as future
» reference
» » if
» » » it progresses. Here is a close up shot with the macro mode. The
» flash
» » is
» » » interfering a little. You can still see a little damage from the the
» » peel.
» » » If you’re wondering, these weren’t there b4.
» » Where is the pic?
»
» I just did it, I told u guys I don’t usually post in forums let alone post
» pictures of myself. I did a bad job but I figured it out, jeez! I need to
» get my hands on a better camera in the future.
How can I see the picture? I don’t see any :S


#37

» » » » Ok, I got my hands briefly on a cheap camera and it doesn’t do it
» » » justice.
» » » » I’m no expert in photography. You guys can use this as future
» » reference
» » » if
» » » » it progresses. Here is a close up shot with the macro mode. The
» » flash
» » » is
» » » » interfering a little. You can still see a little damage from the
» the
» » » peel.
» » » » If you’re wondering, these weren’t there b4.
» » » Where is the pic?
» »
» » I just did it, I told u guys I don’t usually post in forums let alone
» post
» » pictures of myself. I did a bad job but I figured it out, jeez! I need
» to
» » get my hands on a better camera in the future.
» How can I see the picture? I don’t see any :S

Look back at the first post with the subject “picture” on it. I just figured out how to upload it. Sorry, first time.


#38

I see the hairs you are referring to. Can you take a photo of the other temple so we can compare?


#39

» Ok, I got my hands briefly on a cheap camera and it doesn’t do it justice.
» I’m no expert in photography. You guys can use this as future reference if
» it progresses. Here is a close up shot with the macro mode. The flash is
» interfering a little. You can still see a little damage from the the peel.
» If you’re wondering, these weren’t there
» b4.


» Crap, this is difficult. I’m trying to get a bigger close up here as it
» is not showing well. U might have to save to ur desktop at enlarge
» manually as there tons more that are lighter in color that doesn’t show up.
» Ok, this is edit. You’re seeing the one’s that are starting to get some
» pigmentation. I just got up and looked at the mirror at it at a side angle
» and I can see tons of lighter hairs that doesn’t show up in the picture,
» damn! I might have to wait for someone to help me with this.

You know mikewaters,

Give those baby hairs time and at the end of the day , if nothing work for them may be you should depilate them and do the follica procdedure again !(This is of course something that you should decide wisely , I’m just giving simple suggestions ).


#40

» » Ok, I got my hands briefly on a cheap camera and it doesn’t do it
» justice.
» » I’m no expert in photography. You guys can use this as future reference
» if
» » it progresses. Here is a close up shot with the macro mode. The flash
» is
» » interfering a little. You can still see a little damage from the the
» peel.
» » If you’re wondering, these weren’t there
» » b4.


» » Crap, this is difficult. I’m trying to get a bigger close up here as
» it
» » is not showing well. U might have to save to ur desktop at enlarge
» » manually as there tons more that are lighter in color that doesn’t show
» up.
» » Ok, this is edit. You’re seeing the one’s that are starting to get
» some
» » pigmentation. I just got up and looked at the mirror at it at a side
» angle
» » and I can see tons of lighter hairs that doesn’t show up in the
» picture,
» » damn! I might have to wait for someone to help me with this.
»
» You know mikewaters,
»
»
» Give those baby hairs time and at the end of the day , if nothing work for
» them may be you should depilate them and do the follica procdedure again !

It needs to be longer to do that, I’m trying for another shot while I still have the camera. Hold on.