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Follica home experiment update


#1

This has to be a quick post, sorry.

About 7.5 weeks ago, I did a peeling + gefitinib experiment along my hairline (with a TCA peel) and eyebrows (with salicyclic acid). Check the archives for the details of my experiment. I expected results to start showing up 3-4 weeks post-wounding. I gave it a few extra weeks to be sure.

Results:

  1. Along my hairline, no new hairs that I can tell.

  2. Interestingly, a few scattered hair follicles appeared along my eyebrows. I can’t tell if the hairs are new or just existing vellous follicles turned terminal. All-in-all, though, I didn’t get the growth I wanted, where I wanted.

I consider my experiment to be a failure, for the most part (certainly along the hairline it was). Some possible reasons for my lack of results:

  1. I missed the window. If I had to do it all over again, I’d probably start a day or two earlier with the meds.

  2. I didn’t get a window. This could be due to variables (washing my hair, other meds I’m taking, etc.), inadequate wound size, or wounding method (in my case, TCA peel).

I really hope that someone is able to get into one of the real trials, and then report back the protocol (wounding method, healing time, when and for how long the meds are applied, etc.)


#2

you say you missed the window…how long did you wait for topicals?


#3

TAGOHL,

I’ll probably try this one more time, attempting to eliminate all the variables.

I intend to be on cyclo for two weeks. The morning before I wound (in a series of nickel-sized abrasions that remove the dermis as were performed in the experiments, not TCA peels), I intend to get on cyclo. I will be on dutasteride at this time also.

About five to six days post wounding, depending on the look of the wounds, I intend to get on getfitinib. I’ll take getfitinib for about four straight days, and then every other day depending on what the wounds look like until two weeks have passed.

I intend not to wash the abraded areas or even to let water hit them from the time I wound until Im finished.

If that doesnt “work”, then I’d say we have about zero chance of this working “at home” and just have to wait on follica. I’ll end up being the guinea pig for everybody. Obviously if I start to develop the flu or something, I’ll have to end the experiment. I’ll probably do this post-thanksgiving holiday, etc. It will be my last stab at it unless someone on the board hits a homerun with some other method, and I’d just emulate that.


#4

Benji good luck. Your plan sounds the most ambitius one. I just wonder why do you have to wait 5-6 days after wounding to start gefitinib? Isnt that too much?


#5

I’m 35, norwood 2 with diffused thinning. I’m on Fin and minox for years now. I’ve done the experiment about the same time togohl did his. I would say it is just over 2 months now since. What I have so far looks like hairs along the hairline coming back terminal and a sea of baby hairs that I consider “new” on the temples. It’s been 11 weeks and it doesn’t look like the full growth photos of Follica’s mice but I’m not entirely disappointed. Every time I think that this is it for growth, it looks a little longer and darker. I check every few days. The terminal hairs along my original hairline you can obviously see sprouting, the sea of baby hairs take some effort to see under good lighting. There is no way this will take 11 weeks to get the coverage of that mice. If those baby hairs continue to terminalize, it will take a good 6-12 months if it is ever going to happen at all. My best assumption to all this is that human hair growth is not he same as mices. I might try this again and tweak it a little with topical cyclo or tacrolimus. This is what I did. I used 15% tca peel and applied it 4 times over the entire scalp including the bald widows peak. Each application is done several minutes apart until I got a good frosting on top. What I’ve noticed is that the size of the wound is every bit as important as depth. My temples are filled with straight semi-pigmented baby hairs whereas baccy’s grew all sporadically in patches on the scalp and nowhere to be seen on his temples. I’ve had a mature hairline since my teens and where these babies grew I had none prior. I iced down my scalp afterwards with cool water. I don’t use shampoos or soaps for 2 weeks but I do wash my hair with water. I wait 2 days and applied topical (hint, hint)getfitnib 2 times a day. I had no side effect what so ever. I applied at 8am and 2pm religiously for 2 weeks. If you want to know how to mix up a batch, go to the topical forum and ask. DMSO was a key ingredient for me. I wash off the best I can with water only. I go to bed with only dirty, greasy hair because I rinse it off with just water before bedtime.

Now that I’ve said what I had to say, you can take it or leave it. Believe me or not, I don’t give a sh!t. I’m not posting photos and I’m never going to post it. You don’t know who I am and you don’t want to know. For you bashers out there, phuck off! As a matter of fact, this is my one and only post. I’m not posting here ever again. This is just to help point you believers in the right direction. Good luck;-)


#6

» I’m 35, norwood 2 with diffused thinning. I’m on Fin and minox for years
» now. I’ve done the experiment about the same time togohl did his. I would
» say it is just over 2 months now since. What I have so far looks like
» hairs along the hairline coming back terminal and a sea of baby hairs that
» I consider “new” on the temples. It’s been 11 weeks and it doesn’t look
» like the full growth photos of Follica’s mice but I’m not entirely
» disappointed. Every time I think that this is it for growth, it looks a
» little longer and darker. I check every few days. The terminal hairs
» along my original hairline you can obviously see sprouting, the sea of baby
» hairs take some effort to see under good lighting. There is no way this
» will take 11 weeks to get the coverage of that mice. If those baby hairs
» continue to terminalize, it will take a good 6-12 months if it is ever
» going to happen at all. My best assumption to all this is that human hair
» growth is not he same as mices. I might try this again and tweak it a
» little with topical cyclo or tacrolimus. This is what I did. I used 15%
» tca peel and applied it 4 times over the entire scalp including the bald
» widows peak. Each application is done several minutes apart until I got a
» good frosting on top. What I’ve noticed is that the size of the wound is
» every bit as important as depth. My temples are filled with straight
» semi-pigmented baby hairs whereas baccy’s grew all sporadically in patches
» on the scalp and nowhere to be seen on his temples. I’ve had a mature
» hairline since my teens and where these babies grew I had none prior. I
» iced down my scalp afterwards with cool water. I don’t use shampoos or
» soaps for 2 weeks but I do wash my hair with water. I wait 2 days and
» applied topical (hint, hint)getfitnib 2 times a day. I had no side
» effect what so ever. I applied at 8am and 2pm religiously for 2 weeks. If
» you want to know how to mix up a batch, go to the topical forum and ask.
» DMSO was a key ingredient for me. I wash off the best I can with water
» only. I go to bed with only dirty, greasy hair because I rinse it off with
» just water before bedtime.
»
» Now that I’ve said what I had to say, you can take it or leave it.
» Believe me or not, I don’t give a sh!t. I’m not posting photos and I’m
» never going to post it. You don’t know who I am and you don’t want to
» know. For you bashers out there, phuck off! As a matter of fact, this is
» my one and only post. I’m not posting here ever again. This is just to
» help point you believers in the right direction. Good luck;-)

Frankiebaby:

Can you let the forum know if your baby hairs grew terminal in 6 months? If that were the case, would you have addressed your general thinning as well as your bald widows peak?


#7

frankiebaby, did you use lithium at all?


#8

» I’m 35, norwood 2 with diffused thinning. I’m on Fin and minox for years
» now. I’ve done the experiment about the same time togohl did his. I would
» say it is just over 2 months now since. What I have so far looks like
» hairs along the hairline coming back terminal and a sea of baby hairs that
» I consider “new” on the temples. It’s been 11 weeks and it doesn’t look
» like the full growth photos of Follica’s mice but I’m not entirely
» disappointed. Every time I think that this is it for growth, it looks a
» little longer and darker. I check every few days. The terminal hairs
» along my original hairline you can obviously see sprouting, the sea of baby
» hairs take some effort to see under good lighting. There is no way this
» will take 11 weeks to get the coverage of that mice. If those baby hairs
» continue to terminalize, it will take a good 6-12 months if it is ever
» going to happen at all. My best assumption to all this is that human hair
» growth is not he same as mices. I might try this again and tweak it a
» little with topical cyclo or tacrolimus. This is what I did. I used 15%
» tca peel and applied it 4 times over the entire scalp including the bald
» widows peak. Each application is done several minutes apart until I got a
» good frosting on top. What I’ve noticed is that the size of the wound is
» every bit as important as depth. My temples are filled with straight
» semi-pigmented baby hairs whereas baccy’s grew all sporadically in patches
» on the scalp and nowhere to be seen on his temples. I’ve had a mature
» hairline since my teens and where these babies grew I had none prior. I
» iced down my scalp afterwards with cool water. I don’t use shampoos or
» soaps for 2 weeks but I do wash my hair with water. I wait 2 days and
» applied topical (hint, hint)getfitnib 2 times a day. I had no side
» effect what so ever. I applied at 8am and 2pm religiously for 2 weeks. If
» you want to know how to mix up a batch, go to the topical forum and ask.
» DMSO was a key ingredient for me. I wash off the best I can with water
» only. I go to bed with only dirty, greasy hair because I rinse it off with
» just water before bedtime.
»
» Now that I’ve said what I had to say, you can take it or leave it.
» Believe me or not, I don’t give a sh!t. I’m not posting photos and I’m
» never going to post it. You don’t know who I am and you don’t want to
» know. For you bashers out there, phuck off! As a matter of fact, this is
» my one and only post. I’m not posting here ever again. This is just to
» help point you believers in the right direction. Good luck;-)

Hey… wait! What % of getfitnib did you use?


#9

Good luck with your experiment, Benji. It sounds like you have all the bases covered.

BTW, maybe the cyclo will help blunt some of the gefitinib side-effects, which would be a good thing.


#10

» you say you missed the window…how long did you wait for topicals?

Exactly 6.5 days. But I used oral meds (gefitinib, along with the usual stuff I take), not topical.


#11

It sounds like this experiment helps confirm what I came up with using Leflunomide this summer. EGF-R inhibition + wounding alone will not work.

I’m probably gonna get on board with Benji for the oral cyclo + oral Genfilitib attempt next. Risk aside, it’s the most directly relevant test we could do so far. More trialists would only help.


#12

:slight_smile:


#13

» I’m 35, norwood 2 with diffused thinning. I’m on Fin and minox for years
» now. I’ve done the experiment about the same time togohl did his. I would
» say it is just over 2 months now since. What I have so far looks like
» hairs along the hairline coming back terminal and a sea of baby hairs that
» I consider “new” on the temples. It’s been 11 weeks and it doesn’t look
» like the full growth photos of Follica’s mice but I’m not entirely
» disappointed. Every time I think that this is it for growth, it looks a
» little longer and darker. I check every few days. The terminal hairs
» along my original hairline you can obviously see sprouting, the sea of baby
» hairs take some effort to see under good lighting. There is no way this
» will take 11 weeks to get the coverage of that mice. If those baby hairs
» continue to terminalize, it will take a good 6-12 months if it is ever
» going to happen at all. My best assumption to all this is that human hair
» growth is not he same as mices. I might try this again and tweak it a
» little with topical cyclo or tacrolimus. This is what I did. I used 15%
» tca peel and applied it 4 times over the entire scalp including the bald
» widows peak. Each application is done several minutes apart until I got a
» good frosting on top. What I’ve noticed is that the size of the wound is
» every bit as important as depth. My temples are filled with straight
» semi-pigmented baby hairs whereas baccy’s grew all sporadically in patches
» on the scalp and nowhere to be seen on his temples. I’ve had a mature
» hairline since my teens and where these babies grew I had none prior. I
» iced down my scalp afterwards with cool water. I don’t use shampoos or
» soaps for 2 weeks but I do wash my hair with water. I wait 2 days and
» applied topical (hint, hint)getfitnib 2 times a day. I had no side
» effect what so ever. I applied at 8am and 2pm religiously for 2 weeks. If
» you want to know how to mix up a batch, go to the topical forum and ask.
» DMSO was a key ingredient for me. I wash off the best I can with water
» only. I go to bed with only dirty, greasy hair because I rinse it off with
» just water before bedtime.
»
» Now that I’ve said what I had to say, you can take it or leave it.
» Believe me or not, I don’t give a sh!t. I’m not posting photos and I’m
» never going to post it. You don’t know who I am and you don’t want to
» know. For you bashers out there, phuck off! As a matter of fact, this is
» my one and only post. I’m not posting here ever again. This is just to
» help point you believers in the right direction. Good luck;-)

I concur with your what you say. I did a similiar experiment on my temples about 4 months ago, I did a 30% tca peel on one side and on the other I did the same, but with 5 layers of the peel and it burned like hell. The area I did was big. I noticed that the temple I did only one peel did absolutely nothing while the side I had multiple peels is covered with vellous activity. I do mean COVERED! The quantity is there, wow!, but the quality is left to be desired. I see vellous activity between the hairs on my hairline and way below where there where none before, however, these new hairline hairs are already semi terminal. I figure these were rejuvenated, I don’t know, but they are doing much better in terms of growth and thickness than the rest of the clan below. I think you will have to go deeper than what most people here think but not to the point where you will bleed. Doing just one layer of peel is no where near enough imo. Maybe this is the reason why follica is doing the wounding study first at harvard. I feel lasers will give you a good uniform wounding while this acid peel stuff is just amateurish imo. Only the areas I peeled deeply showed the best results. The only problem with doing multiple peels is that it left my temple a lighter shade after the scabs fell off. It has been about 4 months now and the the new hairs are hardly visible but I’m covered with it on my left temple which impressed me. I don’t know if it will ever get terminal or not but they do seem longer than the last time I checked about month ago. I used getfitnib, topical btw. I’m planning to do another session soon to even out the other temple. BTW, I did the topical method. One 250mg getfitnib mixed into a 40ml and I used the whole thing in 2 weeks time. I did not use anything else like immune suppressants or lithium. Currently I’m on DUT and minox and just chilling and waiting to see if these damn things will grow out. I’ve read about people using other things like lithium and tannic acid and etc. with little or no results but this getfitnib topically on a good size wound should be the angle to go with imo. I know this can work somehow.


#14

Currently I’m on DUT and minox and just chilling
» and waiting to see if these damn things will grow out. I’ve read about
» people using other things like lithium and tannic acid and etc. with little
» or no results but this getfitnib topically on a good size wound should be
» the angle to go with imo. I know this can work somehow.

Duta and specially minox users can obtain a lot of vellus (with minox even in realitvely short time)…so can you exclude this issue ?
How much time you’re on drugs?


#15

» Currently I’m on DUT and minox and just chilling
» » and waiting to see if these damn things will grow out. I’ve read about
» » people using other things like lithium and tannic acid and etc. with
» little
» » or no results but this getfitnib topically on a good size wound should
» be
» » the angle to go with imo. I know this can work somehow.
»
» Duta and specially minox users can obtain a lot of vellus (with minox even
» in realitvely short time)…so can you exclude this issue ?
» How much time you’re on drugs?

I’m on dutas for 2.5 years and minox for more than 5. If these 2 drugs caused this it would have done it long time ago imo. I frequent these types of forums a lot but I never post since I’m mostly enjoy reading what you “experts” have to say. I’m throwing in my 2 cents here because I feel that only a few of you guys are doing this and it is heading the wrong direction. Topical getfitnib does work and what I’m seeing is no joke. Baccy has come closest but he refused to use getfitnib because he’s afraid of the possible side effects. I had no side effects except for the greasy ass hair for about 2 weeks. He used an egfr substitute and imo will not do. Others here are bent on trying it orally with no positive results. That guy over at regrowth did a 20% peel and then 1.5% getfitnib topically. Let me tell you now that he will not see any results from this. What he’s doing, I did to one of my temples and with a 30% peel. No results. So far f’baby and myself are the only ones doing wounding + topical getfitnib and reporting some progress. I bet you there are others who do not post normally, like myself, are seeing some results. I’m far from being an expert on this. The temple I did the multiple peel shows promise as it is impressively filled with vellous hairs that weren’t there b4. These hairs are pigmented and do not grow at the same rate as the terminals but as far as I can tell they are growing albeit very slow. I am not surprised follica is doing this wounding trials at harvard because if you don’t go deep enough, you will get no results. I’m not saying you need to peel to the bone or anything like that but you do need to do multiple layers to get this to work. By the amount of response to this thread I can tell people are skeptical to these types of positive posts, especially when the “experts” don’t jump all over it and asks questions. I have a friend of which I mixed up a batch of getfitnib and he is about 2 months post wounding. He tells me he is starting to see very light baby sprouts. I think he’s been on fin for years now but I’m not sure. I can’t confirm what he tells me since I haven’t seen him for a few weeks. I think what people need here is a trusted veteran poster to confirm what I say is true by trying what I did and maybe “tweaking” it a bit to get better/faster results. I applied the drug 24 hours post wounding btw. I didn’t want to wait with all this talk about missing the window of opportunity.


#16

ooops, double post. I told 'ya posting is new to me.


#17

» » Currently I’m on DUT and minox and just chilling
» » » and waiting to see if these damn things will grow out. I’ve read
» about
» » » people using other things like lithium and tannic acid and etc. with
» » little
» » » or no results but this getfitnib topically on a good size wound
» should
» » be
» » » the angle to go with imo. I know this can work somehow.
» »
» » Duta and specially minox users can obtain a lot of vellus (with minox
» even
» » in realitvely short time)…so can you exclude this issue ?
» » How much time you’re on drugs?
»
» I’m on dutas for 2.5 years and minox for more than 5. If these 2 drugs
» caused this it would have done it long time ago imo. I frequent these
» types of forums a lot but I never post since I’m mostly enjoy reading what
» you “experts” have to say. I’m throwing in my 2 cents here because I feel
» that only a few of you guys are doing this and it is heading the wrong
» direction. Topical getfitnib does work and what I’m seeing is no joke.
» Baccy has come closest but he refused to use getfitnib because he’s afraid
» of the possible side effects. I had no side effects except for the greasy
» ass hair for about 2 weeks. He used an egfr substitute and imo will not
» do. Others here are bent on trying it orally with no positive results.
» That guy over at regrowth did a 20% peel and then 1.5% getfitnib topically.
» Let me tell you now that he will not see any results from this. What he’s
» doing, I did to one of my temples and with a 30% peel. No results. So far
» f’baby and myself are the only ones doing wounding + topical getfitnib and
» reporting some progress. I bet you there are others who do not post
» normally, like myself, are seeing some results. I’m far from being an
» expert on this. The temple I did the multiple peel shows promise as it is
» impressively filled with vellous hairs that weren’t there b4. These hairs
» are pigmented and do not grow at the same rate as the terminals but as far
» as I can tell they are growing albeit very slow. I am not surprised
» follica is doing this wounding trials at harvard because if you don’t go
» deep enough, you will get no results. I’m not saying you need to peel to
» the bone or anything like that but you do need to do multiple layers to get
» this to work. By the amount of response to this thread I can tell people
» are skeptical to these types of positive posts, especially when the
» “experts” don’t jump all over it and asks questions. I have a friend of
» which I mixed up a batch of getfitnib and he is about 2 months post
» wounding. He tells me he is starting to see very light baby sprouts. I
» think he’s been on fin for years now but I’m not sure. I can’t confirm
» what he tells me since I haven’t seen him for a few weeks. I think what
» people need here is a trusted veteran poster to confirm what I say is true
» by trying what I did and maybe “tweaking” it a bit to get better/faster
» results. I applied the drug 24 hours post wounding btw. I didn’t want to
» wait with all this talk about missing the window of opportunity.

Have you considered taking an immunosuppressant as well? Perhaps this plus an anti-inflammatory will increase your yield.


#18

» Have you considered taking an immunosuppressant as well? Perhaps this
» plus an anti-inflammatory will increase your yield.

Nope, but I know of somebody who is the middle of doing the experiment who is also on topical 0.03% tacrolimus and “wal-dryl”, Walgreens version of the anti-histimine benedryl. Reports are not in yet. I commend the people here who taking it for the team and talks like they know what they are doing but you have to look outside the box sometimes. But in this case the answer to the follica puzzle, I feel strongly from my personal experience, is topical getfitnib. To me, when looking through their patent, egf-r inhibitor as a topical is as plain as day. I could’ve easily did 2 layers of wounding and concluded that it didn’t work at all. It was my stupidity and luck because I was going into unchartered territory that I kept wounding layer after layer after layer. Who knows, maybe these things will create a better environment for this experiment to work. I’m really hoping someone here will take what I say seriously and try it this way to confirm it. My only gain from posting all this is that someone a lot more knowledgable than me, which is not that hard to find, will bring this to the next level. All I can say is that my experiment gave me a very impressive coverage of baby fine hairs that is growing out painfully slow. I can’t tell you if it will continue or not but I’m 99% sure it was the topical getfitnib and a multi-layer peel. Come on guys, it is not so hard to do this if you already have the drug. I very important note: not only is the depth important but the size in terms of area is equally important that I noticed.


#19

Can someone do me a favor who is a member of regrowth? Can somebody go there and tell that dude his measly 20% single layer peel won’t do jack. I can just scrath my skin and get a bigger layer out than that. Like I said b4, I don’t usually post and I hate signing to be members of forums, it’s not my thing. The only reason why I posted here is because there is a general interest here.


#20

» Can someone do me a favor who is a member of regrowth? Can somebody go
» there and tell that dude his measly 20% single layer peel won’t do jack. I
» can just scrath my skin and get a bigger layer out than that. Like I said
» b4, I don’t usually post and I hate signing to be members of forums, it’s
» not my thing. The only reason why I posted here is because there is a
» general interest here.

Hello mikewalters,

First, let me tell you that I appreciate your work and the work of your friends, Not only me who’s appreciating but the whole board (except a minority) and I think I can speak for them here.

1/I like you think that the topical pathway to EGF-R is probably better than the oral one.
2/Can you explain please, why do you think that the guy who’s trying in a different board will fail ?
3/Can you explain please what’s the message that you want us to relay it over the regrowth board ?
4/What sizes of wound you suggest ? as you said that size is as important as depth.
5/Are you aware that Cotsarelis pointed out in his papers that a depilation of the hair pre-procedure’d bring an 11 tiems yield increase .
6/Are you aware of the Wnt effect on hair growth in the Follica procedure ?