Follica DIY

Stem cell; cell based hair therapy
1

Okay with this post im hoping to shed some more light on the whole Follica DIY results and ask for help for a proposed experiment. Anyone thinking of doing their own follica experiment i strongly recommend you read this

I have spent the last 2 weeks contemplating setting up my own Follica DIY. I dont claim to be any expert at all as this is not my speciality area

Ill start by where i think previous attempts have gone wrong

1- Wrong EGFR inhibitors - im pretty sure unless you are using gefitinib, eroltinib or cetuximab you will fail.
I have seen people using leflunomide - this is doomed for failure especially if used topically. It only active when metabolized in vivo - so applying topically probably wont do anything except inhibit proliferation which is its other effect (bad)

2- EGFR wild type (genetic) - taking oral alone will probably not work unless u are genetically predispositioned to be a ‘good’ responder

3- Type of wounding/deepness - general consensus seems to be that chemical peels are not deep enough. It is my opinion that the dermis should also be slightly injured (but not enough to bleed)
Im guessing the only way to do that would be to burn it (cryo/heat or sun)
Originally i thought sunburn combined with chemical peel would be the way to go because sunburn causes dermal disruption and localised decreased immunoresponse
However there is a risk of cancer if you sunburn and activate wnt pathways or supress immune system so im definatly advising that

4- no immunosupression

5- non of the other compounds referred to in follica patent used

6- timing of treatment

Certain ‘mutations’ of the EGFR receptor are more responsive than others, in caucasian men this responsive mutation is very rare. In the treatment of lung cancer you will not recieve gefitinib unless you have this mutation as you wont show any response. it has been shown that the people who have the abormal hair growth on EGFR inhibitors are those that posses this mutation.
http://dermatology.cdlib.org/1503/case_reports/egfr/alexandrescu.html
i also found that you will need a concentration 100times higher to get the same response in EGFR wild type.
http://stke.sciencemag.org/cgi/reprint/sci;304/5676/1497.pdf

So to summarise the people who have actually had hair growth so far -

cancer patients on gefitinib (oral standard dose of 250mg per day)
they possibly had weakened immune system.
they possibly had reduced androgen levels
Nose guy either sunburn or cold (cold would suggest weakened immune system)
head guy - almost definatly sunburn
they were also probably on EGFR inhibitors at the time of wound
they would have possessed the EGFR mutation

Now i am caucasian so likelyhood is i dont have this mutation. if your female and/or asian you have a higher chance of having the mutation
So for me that means i would have to use a dose 100x that they were given. the only way to do that would be to create a local concentration that is 100x higher in the scalp than that was present in the scalp of people taking a 250mg oral dose. i hav no idea what this is but the maximum solution concentration follica mention is 10%

Now i must also consider the mouse experiments that were successful -

mice were immunodeficient
mice testosterone/DHT levels will be much much lower

Okay, so now the experiment i have been planning is looking pretty hardcore…
but im trying to cover all the bases

Day 1 - Wax / epilate / pluck area (including vellus hairs)

Day 2 - Genfitnib oral
Flutamide oral (anti-androgen)
cyclosporine oral (immunosupression)

Day 3 - Gefitinib oral
Flutimide oral
cyclosporine oral
retinoic acid (retin-A) on area (stimulate hf)
2-3 hours later cryofreeze skin (wart freezer) + 30% TCA peel
or sandpaper + 30% TCA peel

Day 4 - Gefitinib oral
Flutimide oral
cyclosporine oral

Day 5 - Gefitinib oral
Flutimide oral
cyclosporine oral

Day 6 - 15 - Topical of:

10% Gefitnib
DMSO (wnt + bmp upregulate)
minoxidil
omega 3 oil (PGD2 inhibitor)
lithium salt
adenosine (FGF7 upregulate)
estradiol (eastrogen receptor agonist)
Flutamide (anti-androgen)
alitretinoin (stabilises b-cantenin)

Plus:

gradual decreasing dose of oral flutamide
cyclosporine oral

I still have a lot of research to do but this is where im upto. I hope this has been useful any feedback will be great! This is just a plan and im deffinatly not endosring anyone to try this but sharing knowledge and experiences is what forums are all about

2

» Okay with this post im hoping to shed some more light on the whole Follica
» DIY results and ask for help for a proposed experiment. Anyone thinking of
» doing their own follica experiment i strongly recommend you read this
»
» I have spent the last 2 weeks contemplating setting up my own Follica DIY.
» I dont claim to be any expert at all as this is not my speciality area
»
» Ill start by where i think previous attempts have gone wrong
»
» 1- Wrong EGFR inhibitors - im pretty sure unless you are using gefitinib,
» eroltinib or cetuximab you will fail.
» I have seen people using leflunomide - this is doomed for failure
» especially if used topically. It only active when metabolized in vivo - so
» applying topically probably wont do anything except inhibit proliferation
» which is its other effect (bad)
»
» 2- EGFR wild type (genetic) - taking oral alone will probably not work
» unless u are genetically predispositioned to be a ‘good’ responder
»
» 3- Type of wounding/deepness - general consensus seems to be that chemical
» peels are not deep enough. It is my opinion that the dermis should also be
» slightly injured (but not enough to bleed)
» Im guessing the only way to do that would be to burn it (cryo/heat or
» sun)
» Originally i thought sunburn combined with chemical peel would be the way
» to go because sunburn causes dermal disruption and localised decreased
» immunoresponse
» However there is a risk of cancer if you sunburn and activate wnt pathways
» or supress immune system so im definatly advising that
»
» 4- no immunosupression
»
» 5- non of the other compounds referred to in follica patent used
»
» 6- timing of treatment
»
»
» Certain ‘mutations’ of the EGFR receptor are more responsive than others,
» in caucasian men this responsive mutation is very rare. In the treatment of
» lung cancer you will not recieve gefitinib unless you have this mutation as
» you wont show any response. it has been shown that the people who have the
» abormal hair growth on EGFR inhibitors are those that posses this mutation.
»
» http://dermatology.cdlib.org/1503/case_reports/egfr/alexandrescu.html
» i also found that you will need a concentration 100times higher to get the
» same response in EGFR wild type.
» http://stke.sciencemag.org/cgi/reprint/sci;304/5676/1497.pdf
»
» So to summarise the people who have actually had hair growth so far -
»
» cancer patients on gefitinib (oral standard dose of 250mg per day)
» they possibly had weakened immune system.
» they possibly had reduced androgen levels
» Nose guy either sunburn or cold (cold would suggest weakened immune
» system)
» head guy - almost definatly sunburn
» they were also probably on EGFR inhibitors at the time of wound
» they would have possessed the EGFR mutation
»
»
» Now i am caucasian so likelyhood is i dont have this mutation. if your
» female and/or asian you have a higher chance of having the mutation
» So for me that means i would have to use a dose 100x that they were given.
» the only way to do that would be to create a local concentratin that is
» 100x higher in the scalp than that was present in the scalp of people
» taking a 250mg oral dose. i hav no idea what this is but the maximum
» solution concentration follica mention is 10%
»
» Now i must also consider the mouse experiments that were successful -
»
» mice were immunodeficient
» mice testosterone/DHT levels will be much much lower
»
»
» Okay, so now the experiment i have been planning is looking pretty
» hardcore…
» but im trying to cover all the bases
»
»
» Day 1 - Wax / epilate / pluck area (including vellus hairs)
»
» Day 2 - Genfitnib oral
» Flutamide oral (anti-androgen)
» cyclosporine oral (immunosupression)
»
» Day 3 - Gefitinib oral
» Flutimide oral
» cyclosporine oral
» retinoic acid (retin-A) on area (stimulate hf)
» 2-3 hours later cryofreeze skin (wart freezer) + 30% TCA peel
» or sandpaper + 30% TCA peel
»
»
» Day 4 - Gefitinib oral
» Flutimide oral
» cyclosporine oral
»
»
» Day 5 - Gefitinib oral
» Flutimide oral
» cyclosporine oral
»
»
» Day 6 - 15 - Topical of:
»
» 10% Gefitnib
» DMSO (wnt + bmp upregulate)
» minoxidil
» omega 3 oil (PGD2 inhibitor)
» lithium salt
» adenosine (FGF7 upregulate)
» estradiol (eastrogen receptor agonist)
» Flutamide (anti-androgen)
» alitretinoin (stabilises b-cantenin)
»
» Plus:
»
» gradual decreasing dose of oral flutamide
» cyclosporine oral
»
»
»
» I still have a lot of research to do but this is where im upto. I hope
» this has been useful any feedback will be great! This is just a plan and im
» deffinatly not endosring anyone to try this but sharing knowledge and
» experiences is what forums are all about

WOW!

I may try an experiment shortly to - mine will be pretty ordinary:

to lower immune response/ immune normalisation / to stimulate growth

Regards
Pete :slight_smile:

3

You sound pretty well read-up on what we’ve been doing around here in the last year or two.

– I agree on the Gefilitnib/Erlonitinib thing. I used (oral) Leflunomide in the past but next time I would go for one of the two big guns. I don’t think there is a very big different between them for our purposes, they seem mostly like Coke and Pepsi to each other even for their intended purposes.

– I agree that the immune system probably needs to be suppressed. It might be the single most-common denominator among all the regrowth incidents we know of. It’s inconvenient, expensive, and maybe a little dangerous, but the fact remains that it appears to be vital to the success of the project.

– Topicals might work but we really can’t rule out anything until it has failed to work in an oral-only attempt too. Folica says the stuff would theoretically work systemic-only, and they are very specific about avoiding any topicals other than their own. And we really don’t know enough about their own proposed topical ideas to safely say we duplicated any of it right.

– IMHO dermabrasion should be enough of a wound if you’re not a pussy about it and you go deep. I have used plain old sandpaper when I did it and i think it worked fine. I went deep as hell but not quite bleeding.

Yes, of course it hurts and it’s not a consistent enough method for a large area of scalp. But how large of an area are you really intending to do for an experiment? IMHO you’d be stupid to make it very large before we really know what we are doing.

And the tradeoff of using a more consistent-depth method of wounding (like chemical peels, etc) is that if you don’t get the depth quite right, then your entire wound area won’t be right. With a bit of variation in the wound depth (like from sanding) it should help make sure that you have the correct depth SOMEWHERE on your test area. (When I did it, I figured that if the center of the sanded area was too deep, then the hair might still grow around the edges, etc.)

4

I heard a guy regrew his hair after being struck by lightning. Obviously you can’t recreate that easily, but maybe try sticking your dick in a light socket? Or shoving the power cord to the stove up your arse?

5

I dont see how this experiment differs from benjis experiment which failed. Taking it orally a couple of days probably isnt long enough for an effect. Cancer patients take them for months or years. But best of luck to you!

6

» I heard a guy regrew his hair after being struck by lightning. Obviously
» you can’t recreate that easily, but maybe try sticking your dick in a light
» socket? Or shoving the power cord to the stove up your arse?

hey bob… we look forward to hearing how it went

7

"So to summarise the people who have actually had hair growth so far -

cancer patients on gefitinib (oral standard dose of 250mg per day)
they possibly had weakened immune system.
they possibly had reduced androgen levels
Nose guy either sunburn or cold (cold would suggest weakened immune system)
head guy - almost definatly sunburn
they were also probably on EGFR inhibitors at the time of wound
they would have possessed the EGFR mutation"

To that I would add, all the people you mentioned above who had hair growth also were not genetically positive for MPB. If they were, they would have shown only as much hair growth as would be expected, considering that.

8

» I dont see how this experiment differs from benjis experiment which failed.
» Taking it orally a couple of days probably isnt long enough for an effect.
» Cancer patients take them for months or years. But best of luck to you!

i agree with z79 and i think cal mentioned this before the imune system prolly has to be supresed for a long peroid of time. i didnt know benji tryed to supress his immune system but now that i think about it i might remeber reading that before. im not trying to be a d!ck but if ur going to do it u minus well get it right other wise its a waste of time and money. the immune system would prolly have to be supressed for at least a couple of months. obviously thats dangerous. im not lieing when i say this i would try it myself but im in poverty. i honestly am sorry but i question this whole thing more and more now. if this worked wouldnt follica have said something by now? theyve had more than enogh time to do so by now

9

»
» I still have a lot of research to do but this is where im upto. I hope
» this has been useful any feedback will be great! This is just a plan and im
» deffinatly not endosring anyone to try this but sharing knowledge and
» experiences is what forums are all about

It’s sounds invasive and pretty kitchen-sink, but I guess it depends on what you’re after. What I did - and which I probably will come back to again soon - was to just pluck hair (mostly vellus, but a few whispy baby-hair that wouldn’t grow anyway) and simply sandpapered lightly.

The skin-damage was equal to a lightly scrubbed knee, and probably very close to a medium peel I suppose. Healed completely in 10 days or so. About 3 weeks later I got some pretty interesting, and quite frankly startling regrowth, specifically in placement, which was as low as I’ve ever had hair.

This was all done in a temple region. It’s wasn’t so much the amount (about twice, maybe three times of what I plucked), but the overall quality that immediately replaced what was already there, and which was pretty useless.

I had a very, very minor part in the whole Follica-talk way back when, when it was brand new. I tried a lithium orotate solution (in alcohol), dermabraded locally in my other temple, and got wishy-washy results. Some very faint, slight regrowth, but quality didn’t improve, and if you have to find the results under a mirror and bright light, it’s not results.

The pluck and dermabrade thing is so far the most impressive regrowth I’ve seen; mostly because it was so sudden, and again, the quality. Judging from growth, it seems whatever it did kick-started new growth on the affected hairs, and obviously in a small surrounding area (since regrowth came at a very low hair-line in places).

Laziness - and to a much smaller degree, funds - has prevented me from repeating the thing again, on a bigger patch this time, and with an acid instead of fine sandpaper. It’s easy to tell oneself that they’re going to do it all over their head, but when the time comes, I suspect you’ll have trouble really going through with such a massive test-bed all at once - and without knowing what, if anything, will happen.

Considering you’re using some nasty drugs, I understand you’d want to go big and wide, but I’d still suggest you find a way to make smaller, more varied local experiments. It’s much easier to stomach, and much easier to live through on a daily-life-basis.

These are just my two cents. After the initial excitement about Follica died down, I got back to more conventional upkeep (propecia and lasers). If it weren’t for a small tidbit in one of the original animal tests, one that said that plucking hair sends strong “hair-signals” (obviously not the technical term) to the surrounding area, and activates stem cells.

I put two-and-two together and tried it myself. On some level it mirrors the much more invasive (and probably much more impressive) procedure, as it dermabrades the skin - sends signals for general repair - and uses hair plucking - sends signals for hair reparation - as a stand in for specific drugs.

It’s more of an echo than a mirror though, but that’s to be expected. Then again, I had very low expectations - none - and ended up surprised at what the body can do at a base level if you just trick it a little.

It’s also the least invasive thing you can do as far as DIY-Follica things are concerned.

Edit: the hairs are still there today. They grew remarkably fast the first couple of weeks, then stopped growing for several months - or so it seemed. Had atleast 2 hair cuts before they finally caught up. They stopped growing at about 2 cm, though this might be distorted conjecture, as they’re now as long as the rest of my hair.
The area just behind them is noticeably getting thinner though, for what that’s worth.

I did this experiment pretty much exacly 2 years ago, and my regimen is the same (propecia and lasers, neither grows new hair but maintains very well). So under those conditions - and, I guess, my general DNA, for what it matters - rejuvenated, if not regenerated, hair seems to last at least a cycle.

It should be noted though that I started lasering several months after my experiment, and that propecia in and of itself could have played a non-trivial part in not immediately letting DHT snuff out the new hair, though I suspect that tricking the body to actively grow/rejuvenate hair pushes through the balding process, with it being a slow and long process, and healing being a rapid and very active process.

I thought I should mention all the details though.

10

» »
» » I still have a lot of research to do but this is where im upto. I hope
» » this has been useful any feedback will be great! This is just a plan and
» im
» » deffinatly not endosring anyone to try this but sharing knowledge and
» » experiences is what forums are all about
»
» It’s sounds invasive and pretty kitchen-sink, but I guess it depends on
» what you’re after. What I did - and which I probably will come back to
» again soon - was to just pluck hair (mostly vellus, but a few whispy
» baby-hair that wouldn’t grow anyway) and simply sandpapered lightly.
»
» The skin-damage was equal to a lightly scrubbed knee, and probably very
» close to a medium peel I suppose. Healed completely in 10 days or so. About
» 3 weeks later I got some pretty interesting, and quite frankly startling
» regrowth, specifically in placement, which was as low as I’ve ever had
» hair.
»
» This was all done in a temple region. It’s wasn’t so much the amount
» (about twice, maybe three times of what I plucked), but the overall quality
» that immediately replaced what was already there, and which was pretty
» useless.
»
» I had a very, very minor part in the whole Follica-talk way back when,
» when it was brand new. I tried a lithium orotate solution (in alcohol),
» dermabraded locally in my other temple, and got wishy-washy results. Some
» very faint, slight regrowth, but quality didn’t improve, and if you have to
» find the results under a mirror and bright light, it’s not results.
»
» The pluck and dermabrade thing is so far the most impressive regrowth I’ve
» seen; mostly because it was so sudden, and again, the quality. Judging from
» growth, it seems whatever it did kick-started new growth on the affected
» hairs, and obviously in a small surrounding area (since regrowth came at a
» very low hair-line in places).
»
» Laziness - and to a much smaller degree, funds - has prevented me from
» repeating the thing again, on a bigger patch this time, and with an acid
» instead of fine sandpaper. It’s easy to tell oneself that they’re going to
» do it all over their head, but when the time comes, I suspect you’ll have
» trouble really going through with such a massive test-bed all at once - and
» without knowing what, if anything, will happen.
»
» Considering you’re using some nasty drugs, I understand you’d want to go
» big and wide, but I’d still suggest you find a way to make smaller, more
» varied local experiments. It’s much easier to stomach, and much easier to
» live through on a daily-life-basis.
»
» These are just my two cents. After the initial excitement about Follica
» died down, I got back to more conventional upkeep (propecia and lasers). If
» it weren’t for a small tidbit in one of the original animal tests, one that
» said that plucking hair sends strong “hair-signals” (obviously not the
» technical term) to the surrounding area, and activates stem cells.
»
» I put two-and-two together and tried it myself. On some level it mirrors
» the much more invasive (and probably much more impressive) procedure, as it
» dermabrades the skin - sends signals for general repair - and uses hair
» plucking - sends signals for hair reparation - as a stand in for specific
» drugs.
»
» It’s more of an echo than a mirror though, but that’s to be expected. Then
» again, I had very low expectations - none - and ended up surprised at what
» the body can do at a base level if you just trick it a little.
»
» It’s also the least invasive thing you can do as far as DIY-Follica things
» are concerned.
»
» Edit: the hairs are still there today. They grew remarkably fast the first
» couple of weeks, then stopped growing for several months - or so it seemed.
» Had atleast 2 hair cuts before they finally caught up. They stopped growing
» at about 2 cm, though this might be distorted conjecture, as they’re now as
» long as the rest of my hair.
» The area just behind them is noticeably getting thinner though, for what
» that’s worth.
»
» I did this experiment pretty much exacly 2 years ago, and my regimen is
» the same (propecia and lasers, neither grows new hair but maintains very
» well). So under those conditions - and, I guess, my general DNA, for what
» it matters - rejuvenated, if not regenerated, hair seems to last at least a
» cycle.
»
» It should be noted though that I started lasering several months
» after my experiment, and that propecia in and of itself could have
» played a non-trivial part in not immediately letting DHT snuff out the new
» hair, though I suspect that tricking the body to actively grow/rejuvenate
» hair pushes through the balding process, with it being a slow and long
» process, and healing being a rapid and very active process.
»
» I thought I should mention all the details though.

so orin for a person like me who doesn’t have MPB would it be more effective? also im planning on doing it on my eyebrow area. do u think there’s anything negatives to doing it there instead? also your saying they lasted for 2 cycles-does that mean they wont last forever? if so then its not worth it

any feedback u could give me would be great since u already tried this! (also the idea of plucking what i have left of my eyebrows scares me a bit. i would not do them all at once like u said but a small area, the reason why is because they are not as strong as head hair of course or as resilient to come back)

another thought is because im doing it on my eyebrows it probably help cosmetically to have any grow since its not such a big area i figure anything is a win. lastly what scares me is wounding a area like that i will have to be extremely careful because it would be ease to accidentally wipe more out than i want.

yup i am weak on funds right now too but not at lazy about trying this when i can. i just hope it works. the only thing that scares me is the cytoplsine(however u spell it) that stuff seems very dangerous.

thanks man

11

I dont see how this experiment differs from benjis experiment which failed. Taking it orally a couple of days probably isnt long enough for an effect. Cancer patients take them for months or years. But best of luck to you!

By his own admission Benji didn’t take enough of the drugs. And he said he wasn’t sure he even got the window right for the timing.

I heard a guy regrew his hair after being struck by lightning. Obviously you can’t recreate that easily, but maybe try sticking your dick in a light socket? Or shoving the power cord to the stove up your arse?

This is the Hair cloning & research section. Nobody’s forcing you to be here. If you wanna stick to safe & efficacy-tested treatments then there are several other forums on Hairsite for that.

To that I would add, all the people you mentioned above who had hair growth also were not genetically positive for MPB. If they were, they would have shown only as much hair growth as would be expected, considering that.

Nice try, but you’re lying again.

The guy who is probably the single best example of regrowth on photos was regrowing that hair right in the middle of a NW#6 shiny bald head.

12

They want action here :slight_smile: ,not words.Of course,maybe the same people whose action turns out badly,sometimes, have to hire a man with words to explain what went wrong…:slight_smile:

well, good luck

13

» » »
» » » I still have a lot of research to do but this is where im upto. I
» hope
» » » this has been useful any feedback will be great! This is just a plan
» and
» » im
» » » deffinatly not endosring anyone to try this but sharing knowledge and
» » » experiences is what forums are all about
» »
» » It’s sounds invasive and pretty kitchen-sink, but I guess it depends on
» » what you’re after. What I did - and which I probably will come back to
» » again soon - was to just pluck hair (mostly vellus, but a few whispy
» » baby-hair that wouldn’t grow anyway) and simply sandpapered lightly.
» »
» » The skin-damage was equal to a lightly scrubbed knee, and probably very
» » close to a medium peel I suppose. Healed completely in 10 days or so.
» About
» » 3 weeks later I got some pretty interesting, and quite frankly
» startling
» » regrowth, specifically in placement, which was as low as I’ve ever had
» » hair.
» »
» » This was all done in a temple region. It’s wasn’t so much the amount
» » (about twice, maybe three times of what I plucked), but the overall
» quality
» » that immediately replaced what was already there, and which was pretty
» » useless.
» »
» » I had a very, very minor part in the whole Follica-talk way back when,
» » when it was brand new. I tried a lithium orotate solution (in alcohol),
» » dermabraded locally in my other temple, and got wishy-washy results.
» Some
» » very faint, slight regrowth, but quality didn’t improve, and if you have
» to
» » find the results under a mirror and bright light, it’s not results.
» »
» » The pluck and dermabrade thing is so far the most impressive regrowth
» I’ve
» » seen; mostly because it was so sudden, and again, the quality. Judging
» from
» » growth, it seems whatever it did kick-started new growth on the
» affected
» » hairs, and obviously in a small surrounding area (since regrowth came at
» a
» » very low hair-line in places).
» »
» » Laziness - and to a much smaller degree, funds - has prevented me from
» » repeating the thing again, on a bigger patch this time, and with an
» acid
» » instead of fine sandpaper. It’s easy to tell oneself that they’re going
» to
» » do it all over their head, but when the time comes, I suspect you’ll
» have
» » trouble really going through with such a massive test-bed all at once -
» and
» » without knowing what, if anything, will happen.
» »
» » Considering you’re using some nasty drugs, I understand you’d want to
» go
» » big and wide, but I’d still suggest you find a way to make smaller,
» more
» » varied local experiments. It’s much easier to stomach, and much easier
» to
» » live through on a daily-life-basis.
» »
» » These are just my two cents. After the initial excitement about Follica
» » died down, I got back to more conventional upkeep (propecia and lasers).
» If
» » it weren’t for a small tidbit in one of the original animal tests, one
» that
» » said that plucking hair sends strong “hair-signals” (obviously not the
» » technical term) to the surrounding area, and activates stem cells.
» »
» » I put two-and-two together and tried it myself. On some level it
» mirrors
» » the much more invasive (and probably much more impressive) procedure, as
» it
» » dermabrades the skin - sends signals for general repair - and uses hair
» » plucking - sends signals for hair reparation - as a stand in for
» specific
» » drugs.
» »
» » It’s more of an echo than a mirror though, but that’s to be expected.
» Then
» » again, I had very low expectations - none - and ended up surprised at
» what
» » the body can do at a base level if you just trick it a little.
» »
» » It’s also the least invasive thing you can do as far as DIY-Follica
» things
» » are concerned.
» »
» » Edit: the hairs are still there today. They grew remarkably fast the
» first
» » couple of weeks, then stopped growing for several months - or so it
» seemed.
» » Had atleast 2 hair cuts before they finally caught up. They stopped
» growing
» » at about 2 cm, though this might be distorted conjecture, as they’re now
» as
» » long as the rest of my hair.
» » The area just behind them is noticeably getting thinner though, for
» what
» » that’s worth.
» »
» » I did this experiment pretty much exacly 2 years ago, and my regimen is
» » the same (propecia and lasers, neither grows new hair but maintains
» very
» » well). So under those conditions - and, I guess, my general DNA, for
» what
» » it matters - rejuvenated, if not regenerated, hair seems to last at
» least a
» » cycle.
» »
» » It should be noted though that I started lasering several months
» » after my experiment, and that propecia in and of itself could
» have
» » played a non-trivial part in not immediately letting DHT snuff out the
» new
» » hair, though I suspect that tricking the body to actively
» grow/rejuvenate
» » hair pushes through the balding process, with it being a slow and long
» » process, and healing being a rapid and very active process.
» »
» » I thought I should mention all the details though.
»
» so orin for a person like me who doesn’t have MPB would it be more
» effective? also im planning on doing it on my eyebrow area. do u think
» there’s anything negatives to doing it there instead? also your saying
» they lasted for 2 cycles-does that mean they wont last forever? if so then
» its not worth it
»

I don’t know, I’m not a doctor/researcher/clairvoyant. I didn’t say they lasted for 2 cycles; you need to slow down and read the details again. I still have my hair after 2 years… as what that means in exact cycles is not important. I mentioned it only because there is legitimate concern that rejuvenated hair won’t/might not grow under MPB conditions, because the environment is so harsh.

The bright light of my experiment was not the 20-30 or so terminal hairs I got, but that they grew in so steadily, with such quality, so much better than my first experiment, and that they did not fall out after 3 months like some hair does after rejuvenation treatment (like minoxidil, if you stop using it).

» any feedback u could give me would be great since u already tried this!
» (also the idea of plucking what i have left of my eyebrows scares me a bit.
» i would not do them all at once like u said but a small area, the reason
» why is because they are not as strong as head hair of course or as
» resilient to come back)

I don’t know. The environment around the eyebrow might be different, it might be the same. There are so many factors in here that nobody will ever be able to tell you - at this stage - what predictable results you can expect, because it’s all experimental and stabs in the dark.

»
» another thought is because im doing it on my eyebrows it probably help
» cosmetically to have any grow since its not such a big area i figure
» anything is a win. lastly what scares me is wounding a area like that i
» will have to be extremely careful because it would be ease to accidentally
» wipe more out than i want.
»
» yup i am weak on funds right now too but not at lazy about trying this
» when i can. i just hope it works. the only thing that scares me is the
» cytoplsine(however u spell it) that stuff seems very dangerous.
»

I don’t know what you’re talking about. I didn’t say anything about any drug. My anecdotal experiment underlined the very opposite - the body’s ability to echo this procedure all by itself. If it can be replicated (this is not a call for everyone to do what i did) with consistent results, then it could be a stepping stone towards making the more invasive procedure more efficient.

It has no doubt been checked out by Follica and similar docs, but it was an aspect of this that nobody has talked about much on the forums, and I had some tangible results. That’s why I posted.

Everything I know about this, is in my post, and because it’s so simple - in terms of components - there is very little for me to add. It’s pretty self-contained, and I don’t actually know enough about biology/physiology to make anything intellectually useful from it.

I’ll leave that to people who clearly know what they’re talking about.

14

Hey Virgo,
with all due respect to your problem: have you ever posted pictures of your eyebrows? I’d love to see what your situation is like. It really is very hard for me (and i believe others) to believe that having shaved your eyebrows actually caused them to stop growing and die. I really highly recommend that you dont to try this crap on yourself. It will probably end up worse than it already is… If you really just shaved them then im convinced that they will grow back…!

» » »
» » » I still have a lot of research to do but this is where im upto. I
» hope
» » » this has been useful any feedback will be great! This is just a plan
» and
» » im
» » » deffinatly not endosring anyone to try this but sharing knowledge and
» » » experiences is what forums are all about
» »
» » It’s sounds invasive and pretty kitchen-sink, but I guess it depends on
» » what you’re after. What I did - and which I probably will come back to
» » again soon - was to just pluck hair (mostly vellus, but a few whispy
» » baby-hair that wouldn’t grow anyway) and simply sandpapered lightly.
» »
» » The skin-damage was equal to a lightly scrubbed knee, and probably very
» » close to a medium peel I suppose. Healed completely in 10 days or so.
» About
» » 3 weeks later I got some pretty interesting, and quite frankly
» startling
» » regrowth, specifically in placement, which was as low as I’ve ever had
» » hair.
» »
» » This was all done in a temple region. It’s wasn’t so much the amount
» » (about twice, maybe three times of what I plucked), but the overall
» quality
» » that immediately replaced what was already there, and which was pretty
» » useless.
» »
» » I had a very, very minor part in the whole Follica-talk way back when,
» » when it was brand new. I tried a lithium orotate solution (in alcohol),
» » dermabraded locally in my other temple, and got wishy-washy results.
» Some
» » very faint, slight regrowth, but quality didn’t improve, and if you have
» to
» » find the results under a mirror and bright light, it’s not results.
» »
» » The pluck and dermabrade thing is so far the most impressive regrowth
» I’ve
» » seen; mostly because it was so sudden, and again, the quality. Judging
» from
» » growth, it seems whatever it did kick-started new growth on the
» affected
» » hairs, and obviously in a small surrounding area (since regrowth came at
» a
» » very low hair-line in places).
» »
» » Laziness - and to a much smaller degree, funds - has prevented me from
» » repeating the thing again, on a bigger patch this time, and with an
» acid
» » instead of fine sandpaper. It’s easy to tell oneself that they’re going
» to
» » do it all over their head, but when the time comes, I suspect you’ll
» have
» » trouble really going through with such a massive test-bed all at once -
» and
» » without knowing what, if anything, will happen.
» »
» » Considering you’re using some nasty drugs, I understand you’d want to
» go
» » big and wide, but I’d still suggest you find a way to make smaller,
» more
» » varied local experiments. It’s much easier to stomach, and much easier
» to
» » live through on a daily-life-basis.
» »
» » These are just my two cents. After the initial excitement about Follica
» » died down, I got back to more conventional upkeep (propecia and lasers).
» If
» » it weren’t for a small tidbit in one of the original animal tests, one
» that
» » said that plucking hair sends strong “hair-signals” (obviously not the
» » technical term) to the surrounding area, and activates stem cells.
» »
» » I put two-and-two together and tried it myself. On some level it
» mirrors
» » the much more invasive (and probably much more impressive) procedure, as
» it
» » dermabrades the skin - sends signals for general repair - and uses hair
» » plucking - sends signals for hair reparation - as a stand in for
» specific
» » drugs.
» »
» » It’s more of an echo than a mirror though, but that’s to be expected.
» Then
» » again, I had very low expectations - none - and ended up surprised at
» what
» » the body can do at a base level if you just trick it a little.
» »
» » It’s also the least invasive thing you can do as far as DIY-Follica
» things
» » are concerned.
» »
» » Edit: the hairs are still there today. They grew remarkably fast the
» first
» » couple of weeks, then stopped growing for several months - or so it
» seemed.
» » Had atleast 2 hair cuts before they finally caught up. They stopped
» growing
» » at about 2 cm, though this might be distorted conjecture, as they’re now
» as
» » long as the rest of my hair.
» » The area just behind them is noticeably getting thinner though, for
» what
» » that’s worth.
» »
» » I did this experiment pretty much exacly 2 years ago, and my regimen is
» » the same (propecia and lasers, neither grows new hair but maintains
» very
» » well). So under those conditions - and, I guess, my general DNA, for
» what
» » it matters - rejuvenated, if not regenerated, hair seems to last at
» least a
» » cycle.
» »
» » It should be noted though that I started lasering several months
» » after my experiment, and that propecia in and of itself could
» have
» » played a non-trivial part in not immediately letting DHT snuff out the
» new
» » hair, though I suspect that tricking the body to actively
» grow/rejuvenate
» » hair pushes through the balding process, with it being a slow and long
» » process, and healing being a rapid and very active process.
» »
» » I thought I should mention all the details though.
»
» so orin for a person like me who doesn’t have MPB would it be more
» effective? also im planning on doing it on my eyebrow area. do u think
» there’s anything negatives to doing it there instead? also your saying
» they lasted for 2 cycles-does that mean they wont last forever? if so then
» its not worth it
»
» any feedback u could give me would be great since u already tried this!
» (also the idea of plucking what i have left of my eyebrows scares me a bit.
» i would not do them all at once like u said but a small area, the reason
» why is because they are not as strong as head hair of course or as
» resilient to come back)
»
» another thought is because im doing it on my eyebrows it probably help
» cosmetically to have any grow since its not such a big area i figure
» anything is a win. lastly what scares me is wounding a area like that i
» will have to be extremely careful because it would be ease to accidentally
» wipe more out than i want.
»
» yup i am weak on funds right now too but not at lazy about trying this
» when i can. i just hope it works. the only thing that scares me is the
» cytoplsine(however u spell it) that stuff seems very dangerous.
»
» thanks man

15

first of let me thank orin for responding to me. seconding to hairman2 i can completely understand 100% why you don’t believe me the whole thing is utterly illogical even to me which is what makes it so messed up. it seriously doesn’t make any sense what so ever to me I’m not going to lie. all i know is it happened and i am not lying about how it happened or even the fact that it did happen. i have asked multiple doctors about it most of the said it would grow back. actually only one at the ER told me that in less than 20% of people it is very rare but it can happen. i know it doesn’t make sense it doesn’t make any sense to me. its like a medical mystery the only thing i can think is because i did it more than once? i have researched it on the internet and it does seem that in very rare cases this can happen (you can look for yourself if you want you may have to put sometime into it because i found examples of this hard to find). the weird thing is i always thought i had normal genes. as for me not trying anything on my own just think about what its like to live this every day. its the worst thing that’s every happened to me. honestly it looks really bad :frowning: imagine not being able to make facial expressions well. when i used to frown i looked pissed now u cant really tell. I never thought about posting pics on here but if u want i will… but it may take some time and may not. I don’t have a camera and other people i know who have ones are that of low quality so i don’t think its really going to help. I might be able to do this though. I will also have a hard time finding before photos. Give me some time and i will but they will not be of good quality and may not be very useful then.

(sorry this post was so messy i had already written it once and somehow closed the window so i was really just lazy and trying to retype it really fast)

16

http://www.who.int/uv/faq/uvhealtfac/en/index4.html

“Sunlight exposure can precede the onset of recurrent eruptions of cold sores. UVB radiation appears to reduce the effectiveness of the immune system”

Remeber, all the guys who regrow hair by accident got sunburn instead of peels or sandpaper.

17

By the way, thanks for the input Orin.

IMHO you’re wise not to test anything on a large area of your head before you know what you’re doing. I agree, that kind of stuff sounds much easier than it is when you get down and dirty to actually do it.

So you say the hairs are currently showing all signs of being terminal without problems? Lasting from cycle to cycle like normal hairs would? That’s very interesting.

Did you wait any time between the plucking and the sandpapering? How deep did you sandpaper (did the skin look really red for a week afterwards, etc)?

I really think that in a few decades we’ll be looking at most of these hair regrowth schemes being researched as being overly complicated. Right now we’ve got people w/o educations and resources who want to find an easy way, and people with educations and resources who only want to find a difficult & patentable way. But nobody with educations & resources looking for an easy way.

18

» By the way, thanks for the input Orin.
»
» IMHO you’re wise not to test anything on a large area of your head before
» you know what you’re doing. I agree, that kind of stuff sounds much easier
» than it is when you get down and dirty to actually do it.
»
»
»
» So you say the hairs are currently showing all signs of being terminal
» without problems? Lasting from cycle to cycle like normal hairs would?
» That’s very interesting.
»

As far as I can tell, yes. The grew in the way hair would if you shaved down healthy hair. They emerged close to - or identical to - terminal shape.

» Did you wait any time between the plucking and the sandpapering? How deep
» did you sandpaper (did the skin look really red for a week afterwards,
» etc)?

I think I already said how deep; about 10 days for it to be completely invisible, and pretty lightly. Think light knee-scrape. Thin wound-crust all over the area, but in no way as near as drawing blood. If you draw blood, you’re looking at something that might take months to completely heal up, which is why it is very important to go very slowly and wait 15 minutes or so between each go, as skin shows damage very gradually.

Controlled wound healing is the aim here, which is why I think a medium peel might be the best way to go; especially as it doesn’t - from what I’ve read - interact with hair, so you don’t have to cut your hair short, though it certainly helps.

I plucked in the evening, and dermabraded the next evening. There’s very little rhyme or reason to it, and was guesstimated off of mice studies, and they heal differently than humans. We we’re all aiming for the window of opportunity, which nobody knows for sure where it is. Hair-bulbs send signals as they repair the yanked hair, and the optimal window is probably right around, or just before, the crust is “turning”, or peeling.

Just those parameters are an experiment in and of itself, which should give some idea of just how troublesome and time-consuming legitimate, corporate science is. At home there’s no red tape, and very little ethical concerns, and it still takes a very long time to even begin to pin down.
»
»
»
»
» I really think that in a few decades we’ll be looking at most of these
» hair regrowth schemes being researched as being overly complicated. Right
» now we’ve got people w/o educations and resources who want to find an easy
» way, and people with educations and resources who only want to find a
» difficult & patentable way. But nobody with educations & resources looking
» for an easy way.

19

In the Follica patent didn’t they say they wanted to wax the head before the dermabrasion, maybe that’s one of the main things that kicks the regrowth. Even a bald head has hair, it’s just vellus and not visible to the naked eye. Maybe the hair has to be pulled from the root to cause the reaction we’re looking for. What method were the other home testers using for the hair removal before dermabrasion?

Interesting pot anyway Orin.

20

What is follica?

» In the Follica patent didn’t they say they wanted to wax the head before
» the dermabrasion, maybe that’s one of the main things that kicks the
» regrowth. Even a bald head has hair, it’s just vellus and not visible to
» the naked eye. Maybe the hair has to be pulled from the root to cause the
» reaction we’re looking for. What method were the other home testers using
» for the hair removal before dermabrasion?
»
» Interesting pot anyway Orin.