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Enough Hairloss Research Showing "Increased Hair Counts"!


#1

It seems to me that all the recent research, whether it’s clinical trials from Aderans, or trials of a new drug treatment from Cosmo in Italy, always present before and after hair count comparisons and “increased hair counts”. They always conduct the tests on scalps which already have some hair, often lots of hair.

Now, actually this situation approximates me and probably most people here. Although I have substantial thinning and much less than 50% original density in my balding areas (crown and frontal hairline), I don’t have any areas that are completely bald. There is still some terminal hair growing in all the places where my hair was originally thick.

However, it occurs to me that testing on people like me, i.e. on scalp surfaces that still have fairly substantial hair counts and even distribution, is not the ideal showcase for clearly demonstrating new hair growth. If these researchers want to show that their techniques are CLEARLY GENERATING NEW HAIR (whether it’s brand new “de novo” follicle neogenesis, or stimulation of invisible/dormant vellus or miniaturized follicles), then they ought to use at least some SLICK BALD PATIENTS, in fact, they ought to focus on those patients, and test on a lot of them.

Only in this way will they be able to clearly demonstrate whether their procedures are really generating “new” hair, and not show confusing results with slight increases of hair counts, which are very hard to discern in photos, and can be easily fudged and manipulated by these researchers.


#2

I would imagine that balding people might be more receptive to these types of treatments than completely bald people. Since most of these companies are in it for the money (quick ROI) it makes sense what they would take (or test) the path of least resistance.

Now that’s not to say their treatments won’t work on completely bald people. We’ve seen long-term bald areas recovered (albeit poorly) with HTs; there’s absolutely no reason why HM treatments can’t do the same (or better).

» It seems to me that all the recent research, whether it’s clinical trials
» from Aderans, or trials of a new drug treatment from Cosmo in Italy, always
» present before and after hair count comparisons and “increased hair
» counts”. They always conduct the tests on scalps which already have some
» hair, often lots of hair.
»
» Now, actually this situation approximates me and probably most people
» here. Although I have substantial thinning and much less than 50% original
» density in my balding areas (crown and frontal hairline), I don’t have any
» areas that are completely bald. There is still some terminal hair growing
» in all the places where my hair was originally thick.
»
» However, it occurs to me that testing on people like me, i.e. on scalp
» surfaces that still have fairly substantial hair counts and even
» distribution, is not the ideal showcase for clearly demonstrating new hair
» growth. If these researchers want to show that their techniques are
» CLEARLY GENERATING NEW HAIR (whether it’s brand new “de novo” follicle
» neogenesis, or stimulation of invisible/dormant vellus or miniaturized
» follicles), then they ought to use at least some SLICK BALD PATIENTS, in
» fact, they ought to focus on those patients, and test on a lot of them.
»
» Only in this way will they be able to clearly demonstrate whether their
» procedures are really generating “new” hair, and not show confusing results
» with slight increases of hair counts, which are very hard to discern in
» photos, and can be easily fudged and manipulated by these researchers.


#3

Exactly that rev, btw roger_that that was a really good question.

And it is like rev said they are all in for the money and the pictures they show us are from thinning people because the cosmetic effect is way more obvious then on a perfect bald person (you have to agree to that)

But i would never rule out that it wont work on complete bald people, fact is most of balding/bald people have sparse hair at least in a normal age range of 20 to lets say 50 which is the main group of interest for those companys.

But nive one, lets stick with this kind of threads and we are good to go


#4

I understand where you’re coming from, and I agree that for most procedures the chances of success and achieving greater density would be greater on a patient who still has some hair left. This would be true for a wide variety of conventional procedures – new topicals, systemic drugs, etc., maybe even for some injection-based products.

But remember that with Aderans and a few of these other researchers, they have actually been touting “potentially unlimited new hair” for years. The whole premise of most of the HM companies and researchers has been that they’re offering something revolutionary, not just in quality or increasing density, but the ability to reproduce hair in unlimited quantities from hair follicle precursor cells.

If that is really the case, then they should do at least a few tests on the baldest, slickest areas of patients with NW7 scalps. That way, there would be absolutely no inherent confusion or frustration about counting hairs, camera angles, lighting, comparing hair lengths and positioning with magic marker dots or circles drawn on people’s heads, and that whole rigamarole which is so susceptible to gaming… It would be simple: Either hair is growing, or it is not; and you could even determine the procedure’s exact potential density (or range of potential densities) in a very clear and simple way.

» Exactly that rev, btw roger_that that was a really good question.
»
» And it is like rev said they are all in for the money and the pictures
» they show us are from thinning people because the cosmetic effect is way
» more obvious then on a perfect bald person (you have to agree to that)
»
» But i would never rule out that it wont work on complete bald people, fact
» is most of balding/bald people have sparse hair at least in a normal age
» range of 20 to lets say 50 which is the main group of interest for those
» companys.
»
» But nive one, lets stick with this kind of threads and we are good to go


#5

I agree with you on this but on some occasions it seems they doing it on diffuse patient so that they can see how and in which way their treatment “could” increase hair density in the surrounding areas.

On the other hand, sometimes it feels like: a total blank person, could never get his hair back. Which would actually be really sad.

And i personally think that HM in the first generation will more likely only iam sorry will cosmetically significant work on yout vertex area, which on the one hand seems sad but we should never forget even if it would only work in this are, we could still get our frontal zone repaired.

But i totally agree an NW7 Person with a full head treatment and significant results would the most amazing thing ever, if they would show such a picture i think i would slowly begin to stop using FIN.

So am i right when i say you are a early NW5 diffuse person? Even if it is selfish iam glad that iam just diffuse and not real bald on some spots cause as long as you actually have sparse hair you can “accumulate” that your follicles are not dead per se and have a significant high chance of beeing “Revived”


#6

I think that these companies do not perform studies on NW7s because people with extensive hair loss no longer have blood vessels bringing nourishment to hair follicles. Even if a follicle could be created de novo, it would not have the ability to fully develop into a terminal hair shaft without adequate bloodflow.

The good news is that when hairs are transplanted these blood vessels return. Aderans probably plans to use their procedure in conjunction with transplants for precisely this reason.


#7

Early NW5 diffuse is about right for me, but my hair is quite thick on back and sides non-balding zones…as thick as when I was in college.

Question is, if HM supposedly can take follicle cells from non-balding areas and grow hair in balding areas with those cells, it shouldn’t make any difference whether there is sparse or diffuse surrounding hair in the balding areas, or no hair at all there, because those hairs aren’t contributing to the new hairs grown. Theoretically you should be able to take the same amount of cells from the back of the scalp, and create the same amount/density of new hairs in the balding area…whether the person is NW7 or NW2.

So, let’s see them put up some pictures of NW7 people who are slick-bald, and show us what they can grow on them.

There won’t be any sparse terminal hairs around in the photos to confuse the issue… We’ll be able to see clearly whether it works or not, and even how well it works…

» I agree with you on this but on some occasions it seems they doing it on
» diffuse patient so that they can see how and in which way their treatment
» “could” increase hair density in the surrounding areas.
»
» On the other hand, sometimes it feels like: a total blank person, could
» never get his hair back. Which would actually be really sad.
»
» And i personally think that HM in the first generation will more likely
» only iam sorry will cosmetically significant work on yout vertex area,
» which on the one hand seems sad but we should never forget even if it would
» only work in this are, we could still get our frontal zone repaired.
»
» But i totally agree an NW7 Person with a full head treatment and
» significant results would the most amazing thing ever, if they would show
» such a picture i think i would slowly begin to stop using FIN.
»
» So am i right when i say you are a early NW5 diffuse person? Even if it is
» selfish iam glad that iam just diffuse and not real bald on some spots
» cause as long as you actually have sparse hair you can “accumulate” that
» your follicles are not dead per se and have a significant high chance of
» beeing “Revived”


#8

If that’s so than the worst case scenario would involve a NW6 getting an extremely sparse HT across their scalp to increase their blood supply followed -some time afterwards- by an HM treatment to recover their density. It’s certainly not an ideal scenario, but at least it beats a stand-alone $100,000 HT that looks like crap.

Another scenario might involve some form of consecutive HM treatments… where the first few treatments stimulate blood supply until the scalp is conditioned to respond to hair growth.

» I think that these companies do not perform studies on NW7s because people
» with extensive hair loss no longer have blood vessels bringing nourishment
» to hair follicles. Even if a follicle could be created de novo, it would
» not have the ability to fully develop into a terminal hair shaft without
» adequate bloodflow.
»
» The good news is that when hairs are transplanted these blood vessels
» return. Aderans probably plans to use their procedure in conjunction with
» transplants for precisely this reason.


#9

Absolutely, i dont know where but somebody said that it could be possible to use the first Hm treatment to grow the last hairs back and use this as a small kick start to the early loss hairs and a second treatment would also reprogram the oldest missing hairs.

But as its been said before its about blood vessels.

But nevertheless it is amazing that all Hm things right now DID in fact grow hairs


#10

» Absolutely, i dont know where but somebody said that it could be possible
» to use the first Hm treatment to grow the last hairs back and use this as a
» small kick start to the early loss hairs and a second treatment would also
» reprogram the oldest missing hairs.

I believe cal (or perhaps benji) made similar comments before.


#11

OK, but do we know HM hair can induce new blood circulation? Maybe it’s true with HT, but HT brings in healthy tissue and good blood vessels from the hair-growing areas, and I think some doctors think these little blood vessels connect and re-establish proper circulation. With HT, there is no generation of blood vessels. So I can’t see how sequential treatments would do that.

» » Absolutely, i dont know where but somebody said that it could be
» possible
» » to use the first Hm treatment to grow the last hairs back and use this
» as a
» » small kick start to the early loss hairs and a second treatment would
» also
» » reprogram the oldest missing hairs.
»
» I believe cal (or perhaps benji) made similar comments before.