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Dutasteride and hair transplant growth


#1

Hairsite,

I understand your decision to lock the thread below relating to MJs Armani results.

http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/forum_entry-id-77110-page-0-category-2-order-last_answer.html

you made some factual observations regarding the photos that MJ previously posted which are at odds with his report. That is reasonable and the thread could have been left open to allow MJ the right of reply or others to support your comments.

On the other hand, you also made comments that are highly contentious relating to dutasteride and have not allowed these to be balanced by others. If you can even suggest that dutasteride could be responsible for the loss of or poor growth of his transplant then you are suggesting that there is acceptor site rather than donor site dominance and that at the hairline this donor hair could be lost as a result of lowering DHT. This is highly contentious but plausible and deserves discussion since it would turn upside down the understanding of the causes of MPB.

If you are suggesting that the dut simply caused additional loss of native hair then that was not clear in you post and you could have allowed MJ to respond to whether this was true or not.


#2

Marco,

You can start a new thread or use this thread for the discussion of Dutasteride and hair transplant growth.

Thanks.


#3

» Marco,
»
» You can start a new thread or use this thread for the discussion of
» Dutasteride and hair transplant growth.
»
» Thanks.

OK this is fine. Thanks.


#4

This is only 1 person’s experience with dutasteride, we cannot draw any conclusions from that, the question is who else had the same experience with hair transplant and dutasteride ?


#5

» This is only 1 person’s experience with dutasteride, we cannot draw any
» conclusions from that, the question is who else had the same experience
» with hair transplant and dutasteride ?

Sure that is a given.
There are quite a few that claim fin and dut destroyed their hairline but filled their crown. If it could do this to donor hair (which is usually unaffected by fin) as well as native hair then it would suggest that this paradox is the result of local factors outside the follicle.
This has been an ongoing paradox and
in science it is not what is seen, but what we ignore that allways comes back to bite us!!!


#6

» » This is only 1 person’s experience with dutasteride, we cannot draw any
» » conclusions from that, the question is who else had the same experience
» » with hair transplant and dutasteride ?
»
» Sure that is a given.
» There are quite a few that claim fin and dut destroyed their hairline but
» filled their crown. If it could do this to donor hair (which is usually
» unaffected by fin) as well as native hair then it would suggest that this
» paradox is the result of local factors outside the follicle.
» This has been an ongoing paradox and
» in science it is not what is seen, but what we ignore that allways comes
» back to bite us!!!

But for those who had their hairline destroyed, did they also have hair transplants? On second thought I should rephrase my question, since there are those who respond very well to dutas and there are those who shed, we need to find people who

  1. had hair transplant and
  2. started dutas and
  3. shed

in order to know what kind of impact dutas has on the donor grafts that are supposed to be DHT resistant.


#7

While you are at it, can someone also confirm or dispute the idea that if one gets a body hair transplant, then it is a bad idea to go on Propecia or Dutas because these drugs have the opposite effect on body hair and will cause them to fall out?


#8

» While you are at it, can someone also confirm or dispute the idea that if
» one gets a body hair transplant, then it is a bad idea to go on Propecia or
» Dutas because these drugs have the opposite effect on body hair and will
» cause them to fall out?

This is all about donor hair vs recipient site dominance. It is accepted that there is donor hair dominance and that is the basis for transplantation. It just might not be that simple!!!

If donor site dominance prevails then fin is a bad idea if one has BHT. I would go with that if I had BHT.

The fact remains that dut and fin have been (indisputably in my mind) shown to cause shedding and permanent loss of seemingly healthy frontal hair IN SOME PEOPLE! I have some vague ideas about why this might happen but the idea that it could also happen in the frontal area with transplanted hair would add another dimension to the observation. There is a higher level of aromatase in the frontal hairline area in some men and this is could be relevant to the issue.


#9

» The fact remains that dut and fin have been (indisputably in my mind) shown
» to cause shedding and permanent loss of seemingly healthy frontal hair IN
» SOME PEOPLE!

where’s the proof.

don’t spread fake rumours based on bogus testimonials.

fin and dut have been proven to be more effective in the crown than on the hair line. that much is fact. its however a far cry from claiming it damages the hair line.


#10

» » The fact remains that dut and fin have been (indisputably in my mind)
» shown
» » to cause shedding and permanent loss of seemingly healthy frontal hair
» IN
» » SOME PEOPLE!
»
» where’s the proof.
»
» don’t spread fake rumours based on bogus testimonials.
»
» fin and dut have been proven to be more effective in the crown than on the
» hair line. that much is fact. its however a far cry from claiming it
» damages the hair line.

warfarin is a great FDA approved anticoagulant and 5FU is a great FDA a[roved therapy for some cancers. They both are a lot better than placebo in clinical trials but both will kill a small percentage of the population if taken as in the trials)ie IN SOME PEOPLE


#11

» » The fact remains that dut and fin have been (indisputably in my mind)
» shown
» » to cause shedding and permanent loss of seemingly healthy frontal hair
» IN
» » SOME PEOPLE!
»
» where’s the proof.
»
» don’t spread fake rumours based on bogus testimonials.
»
» fin and dut have been proven to be more effective in the crown than on the
» hair line. that much is fact. its however a far cry from claiming it
» damages the hair line.

More effective in the crown? you don’t have proof for that either.


#12

» More effective in the crown? you don’t have proof for that either.

the dangers of people showing up and spreading bull&hit is high.

very, very high.


Manufacturer: Merck.

Propecia web site.

Active Ingredient: Finasteride. Dosage: 1mg/day.

Propecia is defined as a 5-Alpha-reductas enzyme inhibitor. It binds to the enzyme to prevent it from synthesizing testosterone to Dehydro-Testosterone.

Best results are obtained after two years of use, but early results can be seen after only a few months. The success rates are very high: in double blinded studies it has been shown effective in stopping hair loss on 83% of the patients. On 65% it has achieved regrowth as well.

According to Merck propecia is effective at the crown and mid scalp areas. There is no conclusive data on how Propecia affects the frontal hairline and temples, even though there is evidence showing that it is effective in these areas too.


#13

» » More effective in the crown? you don’t have proof for that either.
»
» the dangers of people showing up and spreading bull&hit is high.
»
» very, very high.
»
» -----------
»
» Manufacturer: Merck.
»
» Propecia web site.
»
» Active Ingredient: Finasteride. Dosage: 1mg/day.
»
» Propecia is defined as a 5-Alpha-reductas enzyme inhibitor. It binds to the
» enzyme to prevent it from synthesizing testosterone to
» Dehydro-Testosterone.
»
» Best results are obtained after two years of use, but early results can be
» seen after only a few months. The success rates are very high: in double
» blinded studies it has been shown effective in stopping hair loss on 83% of
» the patients. On 65% it has achieved regrowth as well.
»
» According to Merck propecia is effective at the crown and mid scalp
» areas. There is no conclusive data on how Propecia affects the frontal
» hairline and temples, even though there is evidence showing that it is
» effective in these areas too.

you are not kidding when you said the danger of people spreading BS is high, how did you draw the conclusion that propecia is “more effective” at the crown based on the above???


#14

» » More effective in the crown? you don’t have proof for that either.
»
» the dangers of people showing up and spreading bull&hit is high.
»
» very, very high.
»
» -----------
»
» Manufacturer: Merck.
»
» Propecia web site.
»
» Active Ingredient: Finasteride. Dosage: 1mg/day.
»
» Propecia is defined as a 5-Alpha-reductas enzyme inhibitor. It binds to the
» enzyme to prevent it from synthesizing testosterone to
» Dehydro-Testosterone.
»
» Best results are obtained after two years of use, but early results can be
» seen after only a few months. The success rates are very high: in double
» blinded studies it has been shown effective in stopping hair loss on 83% of
» the patients. On 65% it has achieved regrowth as well.
»
» According to Merck propecia is effective at the crown and mid scalp
» areas. There is no conclusive data on how Propecia affects the frontal
» hairline and temples, even though there is evidence showing that it is
» effective in these areas too.

BTW, where did you quote the following from? Did you write that yourself or was it indeed written up by Merck?

"According to Merck propecia is effective at the crown and mid scalp areas. There is no conclusive data on how Propecia affects the frontal hairline and temples, even though there is evidence showing that it is effective in these areas too. "


#15

» you are not kidding when you said the danger of people spreading BS is
» high, how did you draw the conclusion that propecia is “more effective” at
» the crown based on the above???

As I said, the danger of BS spreading is high. I would say its approaching critical levels at this point.

“In a 5-year study of men with mild to moderate hair loss, 2 out of 3 of the men who took Propecia (finasteride 1 mg) daily regrew hair, as measured by hair counts. In contrast, all of the men in the study who were not taking finasteride lost hair. In the same study, based on photographs that were reviewed by an independent panel of dermatologists, 48% of those treated with Propecia experienced visible regrowth of hair, and a further 42% had no further loss. Average hair count in the treatment group remained above baseline, and showed an increasing difference from hair count in the placebo group, for all five years of the study. Propecia is effective only for as long as it is taken; the hair gained or maintained is lost within 6–12 months of ceasing therapy.[2] In clinical studies, Propecia, like minoxidil, was shown to work on both the crown area and the hairline,[3] but is most successful in the crown area.”


#16

» BTW, where did you quote the following from? Did you write that yourself or
» was it indeed written up by Merck?

the danger is severe as mentioned.

From Merck’s own website propecia.com

PROPECIA was developed to treat mild to moderate male pattern hair loss on the vertex (top of head) and anterior mid-scalp area (middle front of head) in MEN ONLY. There is not sufficient evidence that PROPECIA works for receding hairlines at the temples.”

http://www.propecia.com/finasteride/propecia/consumer/savings-programs/promise_prog.jsp?WT.svl=4


#17

» » BTW, where did you quote the following from? Did you write that yourself
» or
» » was it indeed written up by Merck?
»
»
» the danger is severe as mentioned.
»
» From Merck’s own website propecia.com
»
» “PROPECIA was developed to treat mild to moderate male pattern hair loss
» on the vertex (top of head) and anterior mid-scalp area (middle front of
» head) in MEN ONLY. There is not sufficient evidence that PROPECIA works for
» receding hairlines at the temples
.”
»
» http://www.propecia.com/finasteride/propecia/consumer/savings-programs/promise_prog.jsp?WT.svl=4

NO, that simply is NOT TRUE!

I just posted about …
http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/board_entry.php?id=77222&page=0&category=1&order=last_answer&descasc=DESC#p77364


#18

Hi Marco,
You may have saw my earlier posts but I wanted to add my 2 cents. After my recent HT, I had 1500 FU’s in front hairline and on crown. Approximately two months after my HT, my doctor put me on Avodart for a minor prostate problem.
What has happened since then is remarkable.
My crown has completely filled in and my hairline has receeded. So, the FU’s in my hairline did not grow in and my hairline receeded terribly.
It has been 16 months since my HT and I went from a daily dose of avodart to once a week. My hairline has not come back.


#19

» Hi Marco,
» You may have saw my earlier posts but I wanted to add my 2 cents. After my
» recent HT, I had 1500 FU’s in front hairline and on crown. Approximately
» two months after my HT, my doctor put me on Avodart for a minor prostate
» problem.
» What has happened since then is remarkable.
» My crown has completely filled in and my hairline has receeded. So, the
» FU’s in my hairline did not grow in and my hairline receeded terribly.
» It has been 16 months since my HT and I went from a daily dose of avodart
» to once a week. My hairline has not come back.

That is interesting. I have seen a few anecdotal reports of this but countless reports of dut and to a lesser extent fin causing frontal hairloss. The question is, why should inhibition of 5ar-I do this in some people. Although the gross stats do not make this effect clear, the era of using that sort of analysis by the FDA is coming to an end due to the advent of pharmacogenomics. Freddy and others could take this on board.

When I put this together with the effect of topical dut which mainly affects 5ar-I (since it is locally produced) then it is at least suggestive that the impact of dut and fin are not necessarily due to lowering systemic DHT but could relate to upregulation of 5-AR-I or down regulation of aromatase when DHT is low at a local level. This is not a hypothesis, and there are missing links but just adds further confusion to the mix. Really just thinking out loud but one thing is for sure and has been shown over and over again in science. It is the inconsistencies in current models that we ignore that come back to bite us and often are the key to important answers.


#20

» » Hi Marco,
» » You may have saw my earlier posts but I wanted to add my 2 cents. After
» my
» » recent HT, I had 1500 FU’s in front hairline and on crown. Approximately
» » two months after my HT, my doctor put me on Avodart for a minor prostate
» » problem.
» » What has happened since then is remarkable.
» » My crown has completely filled in and my hairline has receeded. So, the
» » FU’s in my hairline did not grow in and my hairline receeded terribly.
» » It has been 16 months since my HT and I went from a daily dose of
» avodart
» » to once a week. My hairline has not come back.
»

Oh, the point is that dht and estrogen concentrations local to the transplanted hair may differ from the systemic level when takin dut and this might impact on locally transplanted hair in some people.