Dr. Cole on ACell - Part 1

Stem cell; cell based hair therapy
41

» » He has shown that plucked hairs often result in a finer hair diameter
»
» » with ACell treatment
»
» Might it be possible that if the plucked hairs are forming new follicles,
» that those new follicles are behaving like the new follicles on the head of
» a baby?

Highly doubtful. Just plucking a hair would not be enough to cause the genes in the cells to reset and revert almost to an embryonic or infantile state. To get that result, a bunch of genes would have to switched on, switched off, and modified, and that’s something that can’t happen from just the physical act of plucking. It happens at the chromosonal level.

»
» When an baby’s new follicles first begin go grow hair–the hair on the
» baby’s head is fine too, but grows more robust as the child ages.
»
» Could be the same with the plucked hair procedure–could be. Time will
» tell.
»
» » I have been slow to release my findings simply because it is too early
» and
» » I do not want to stimulate irrational exuberance.
»
» Nor stimulate irrational dispair.

42

» Highly doubtful. Just plucking a hair would not be enough to cause the
» genes in the cells to reset and revert almost to an embryonic or infantile
» state. To get that result, a bunch of genes would have to switched on,
» switched off, and modified, and that’s something that can’t happen from
» just the physical act of plucking. It happens at the chromosonal level.

Congratulation! Basically correct, besides the “switched on/off” and “modified” part.

Anyway, maybe Dr. Mohebi Parsa can give you some (vague) answers …

Title: “Multiplication of Hair by Dividing Hair Stem Cells. Is it possible?”
http://ushairrestoration.com/blog/2010/08/multiplication-of-hair-by-dividing-hair-stem-cells-is-it-possible/#comment-55374

IMHO, his answers sound similar amateurish than yours. That means, you’re pretty good, roger_that! :smiley:

43

I understand why Dr. Cole’s response might come across as ‘sour grapes’ but the tone he uses is honestly just the usual blunt manner in which he speaks.

Emilie, there is nothing wrong with blunt speaking, in fact sometimes it is preferable, but if that is all it is and not sour grapes then why on earth does Dr Cole say the following in this thread and what relevance does it have to Autocloning ? :-

He did not discuss hair plucking with me during this phone call. He did relate his own personal experience by having his nurse punch into his scalp in an ACell treated area of scar and a non-ACell treated area. He said the punch crunched into the non-ACell scar site while it slid softly into the ACell scar site without making a characteristic crunching noise that is audible to the patient. The ISHRS has issued a position paper. The position paper clearly states that it is the opinion of the ISHRS that only licensed physicians should be punching into the scalp or performing FUE. This is simply food for thought as Dr. Cooley is now the ISHRS president.

My personal guess is that - based on what he has said - Dr Cole is totally fed up with potential patients asking for Autocloning and then potentially losing these customers when he says he doesn’t offer it - and this is why he has responded:

I’m issuing this response because I am beginning to get phone calls requesting treatment with plucked hairs that are tainted with ACell

Emilie, when you say:-

Most importantly, any regrowth in the donor area is not well documented and, from Dr. Cole’s perspective, highly unlikely. When you remove almost all of the formative tissue around a follicle, the probability of re-growth is negligible.

  • then I have to ask the question previously asked (and not answered) in this thread - why don’t all these people who repeatedly wax and resort to multiple electrolysis procedures on the same hairs that they want to get rid of just pluck them as you suggest ??? Are you claiming that there is a special plucking technique that all these people are missing ??? Allow me to say that this is an extraordinary claim. As your constant and reasonable request is for Autocloning to be backed up with documented evidence please provide the documentation to prove that such plucking of a hair means regrowth won’t happen - we will all be very keen to see it - as will millions of women (plus some men :-)).

Dr Cole says that there is no breakthrough with aCell because Drs Cooley and Hitzig are getting the same inconsistent results planting plucked hairs that people have always got. Dr Cooley has been testing this for 18 months and Dr Hitzig for much longer -so if Drs Cooley and Hitzig are claiming with tainted aCell plucked hairs a 50-75% yield in the recipient area when without aCell we know plucked hairs in the recipient area has a yield of <10% - how can one interpret Dr Cole’s statement any other way than that he is suggesting Drs Cooley and Hitzig are either idiots or liars ??? Please explain how I am misunderstanding this position.

I look forward to your response Emilie.

44

Not sure if this is credible or not, but it was posted on another forum and I thought it is worth posting here:

ryan555
Member

Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 44

Guys, I had a corrective procedure done with Dr. Cole a month ago. I am a fan of the guy and will not say anything bad about him. But, I did ask him his opinion on Dr. Cooley’s work and he was unaware of it. I told him about it and he was skeptical but said it sounded interesting. I doubt Dr. Cole has done a whole lot of work to disprove this method over the past four weeks and he is probably just a general skeptic when it comes to these advancements, which is healthy because all new technology should be challenged. I wouldn’t get too upset about it.

45

»
» Highly doubtful. Just plucking a hair would not be enough to cause the
» genes in the cells to reset and revert almost to an embryonic or infantile
» state. To get that result, a bunch of genes would have to switched on,
» switched off, and modified, and that’s something that can’t happen from
» just the physical act of plucking. It happens at the chromosonal level.
»
»

He’s not talking about the follicle where the hair is plucked from, he’s talking about the new follicle that is forming around the implanted hair, as far as I know that’s never been achieved with an adult has it? with that in mind how can anyone be certain about how the new follicle will behave, even Follica mentioned knocking cells back to an embryonic stage.

46

»»
»
» I remain highly skeptical of all this. Body hair has taught me to be
» careful with any predictions with regard to new treatment modalities. My
» single criticism of Dr Woods is that he practiced body hair transplantation
» for many years, but did not reveal that the results were not consistent.
» Such a revelation would have been important information to both physicians
» and patients. His failure to report this was negligent in my opinion. If
» he has a method, which I can not imagine, that results in consistent yields
» from body hair, then he has an obligation to present such a method. My
» first body hair transplants were a great success, but some follow up
» transplants resulted I poor yields and a poor coverage. Perhaps a
» combination of Acell and PRP will improve results, but it is too early to
» make any predictions based on a limited number of results. PRP alone does
» seem to speed the healing of body hair extraction sites including the
» beard, however.
» I have no way at this point of determining if the ACell results are
» simply anecdotal findings. I need more patient follow up, which is
» difficult when most of your patients come from out of state. For this
» reason, I have been very cautious in my reports on ACell because I know all
» to well what can happen from irrational exuberance. All patients with
» limited donor areas want the Holy Grail. This is what body hair was
» supposed to be. It turned out that it was not.
»
»
»

I found his “sour grapes” of Dr Woods a little odd since he had nothing but good things to say about him in 1983 when he visited him. But then again I dont think he recieved the information he was after. Even thogh I dont believe this technique will pan out, at least for me, I have to question his motives.

side by side comparative evaluations of an unaltered 1mm punch from one company to that of 1mm A-Z’s finger punch is no problem. In the interim, i will take a photograph delailing the two punches at the same angle and same magnification for all to see.
as long as the method and angle of two punches are the same, their should be no external variable that affects the size of the hole. using a potatoe is not a good idea. it is better to use skin because the angle of hair growth will be the same if two side by side follicular groups are punched. changing the angle of incision can affect the overal width of the openning any punch makes.
once again, this is not smoke an mirrors. this is cold hard fact.
i will visit san fran. you have my promise on that, Poet.
i had a wonderful visit is Australia. i can say that dr. Campbell and dr. woods have nothing but the best interst of their patients in mind and they are uncompromising in this philosophy. i learned very little that will help me in FIT or FUE while here, but i hope to work closely with dr. woods and dr. campbell over the ensuing years. i have tremendous respect for Dr. woods and for Dr. Campbell. One thing Dr. woods has told me is that we are still a long way from understanding his procedure. This is both exciting and depressing. It is exciting to know that we will be able to help countless individuals in the future, but it is depressing that we must wait a little longer for his technology. the entire field of hair restoration surgery is about to undergo a tremendous metamorphosis. it will take time, but it will occur. in the mean time it is very important that we work together rather than against one another. if we see minor differences, we should report them and learn from them rather than toss stones. i can assure you that i have learned very little from others in my quest for the answers to follicular extraction. i have far more to teach than anyone i’ve met thus far. therefore, if i continue to come under attack fueled by irrational motives, i may find it less complicated to keep my findings to myself.

47

» He’s not talking about the follicle where the hair is plucked from, he’s
» talking about the new follicle that is forming around the implanted hair,
» as far as I know that’s never been achieved with an adult has it? with that
» in mind how can anyone be certain about how the new follicle will behave,
» even Follica mentioned knocking cells back to an embryonic stage.

For that matter, you can’t even tell whether that “new” follicle was caused by the plucked, implanted hair, or the ACell, or whether it wasn’t just a dormant follicle in telogen phase that was going to grow there anyway and started growing into a small terminal or vellus hair at that point. Who knows?

Remember that Drs. Cooley and Hitzig are experimenting on a lot of patients who still have considerably terminal hairs growing in these areas of their scalps. This effect is even more noticeable, and more confusing to the eye, when a magnified close up shot is taken.

As Dr. Cole (and I) mentioned a number of times, the only really reliable and informative way of testing this is by using very bald people with as close to zero terminal hair as possible in the zone being tested, and to compare scalp areas tested with and without ACell.

And I’m sick of hearing the lame excuse from people here that these doctors aren’t going to find any slick bald volunteers who want to have “patches” of hair on their heads.

First, these docs meet and treat thousands of bald and balding men with all kinds of patterns of hairloss. It’s not hard for them to recruit such candidates, and if they have to, they can place ads for specific Norwood levels, just like the pharmaceutical companies and ARI do all the time. These docs are in big, populated areas with many potential candidates.

Secondly, for a man who’s been slick bald for, say, 10 years, it would generally NOT be considered disfiguring or hideous for him to have a little extra hair on top from ACell or “autocloning” treatments. They wouldn’t be dense patches – there is certainly no evidence right now to support that as a likely outcome, anyway. And if he didn’t like it, the man could shave it down, as so many other bald men do to the remaining few hairs on their scalp. Also, I would bet that a man who’s been NW7 for 5-10 years or more would JUMP at the opportunity to participate in this.

So please people – and you know who you are – stop making up these lame, precious excuses to prevent these doctors from doing the rigorous scientific work that everyone knows needs to be done!

48

» - then I have to ask the question previously asked (and not answered) in
» this thread - why don’t all these people who repeatedly wax and resort to
» multiple electrolysis procedures on the same hairs that they want to get
» rid of just pluck them as you suggest ??? Are you claiming that there is a
» special plucking technique that all these people are missing ??? Allow
» me to say that this is an extraordinary claim. As your constant and
» reasonable request is for Autocloning to be backed up with documented
» evidence please provide the documentation to prove that such plucking of a
» hair means regrowth won’t happen - we will all be very keen to see it - as
» will millions of women (plus some men :-)).
»
» Dr Cole says that there is no breakthrough with aCell because Drs Cooley
» and Hitzig are getting the same inconsistent results planting plucked hairs
» that people have always got. Dr Cooley has been testing this for 18
» months and Dr Hitzig for much longer -so if Drs Cooley and Hitzig are
» claiming with tainted aCell plucked hairs a 50-75% yield in the recipient
» area when without aCell we know plucked hairs in the recipient area has a
» yield of <10% - how can one interpret Dr Cole’s statement any other way
» than that he is suggesting Drs Cooley and Hitzig are either idiots or liars
» ??? Please explain how I am misunderstanding this position.

There is a special plucking technique if you want the hair to grow when transplanted. What Dr. Cooley and Dr. Hitzig are doing is not simply akin to a woman plucking her eyebrow hair. You cannot simply pluck a hair, leaving the formative tissue behind, and expect it to grow elsewhere.

When Dr. Cole started performing CIT/FUE, he knew within four months that the hair yield and healing were superior to strip. Within those four months, he went from offering 100% strip procedures to 90% FUE (and today 99% of his procedures are FUE). If this plucking procedure was such a viable option, (and these doctors truly believe in it) wouldn’t they be offering it almost exclusively 18+ months later? Why would they continue performing the more invasive and limiting strip procedures if they believed there was a better option out there- one that conserves the donor supply?

49

Emilie,
I can understand why you don’t answer some of my questions because I suspect there really is no palatable answer - but you talk about plucking hairs again - so I will ask the question AGAIN:

When you say:

Most importantly, any regrowth in the donor area is not well documented and, from Dr. Cole’s perspective, highly unlikely. When you remove almost all of the formative tissue around a follicle, the probability of re-growth is negligible.

then what is it you know about plucking that THE ENTIRE WORLDWIDE DEPILATION INDUSTRY AND EVERYBODY ASSOCIATED WITH IT HAS FAILED TO GRASP FOR DECADES !!! It is amazing isn’t it how all these people and their millions of customers have been so stupid for so long :slight_smile:

If this plucking procedure was such a viable option, (and these doctors truly believe in it) wouldn’t they be offering it almost exclusively 18+ months later? Why would they continue performing the more invasive and limiting strip procedures if they believed there was a better option out there- one that conserves the donor supply?

I am assuming this is not a serious question - it takes TIME to experiment with a procedure as revolutionary as this, then wait for the results to grow and subsequently experiment in refining the procedure - please don’t tell me that was really a serious question. Even now they still need to do more tests to see if the hair will cycle and whether donor dominance is retained or not. If Dr Cole changed to 90% FUE within four months then I find that alarming, you cannot get any fully grown out results in 4 months.

50

Skywalker, you absolutely rock. Very thoughtful, penetrating, right on the mark replies. Thank you.

51

» And I’m sick of hearing the lame excuse from people here that these
» doctors aren’t going to find any slick bald volunteers who want to have
» “patches” of hair on their heads.

2879_image616.jpg700×451 49.5 KB

Source: http://talizi.ge/files/publication/viability_eng.pdf

@Quato – As you can see, these Docs have to import such candidates from Transcaucasia!

52

» Skywalker, you absolutely rock. Very thoughtful, penetrating, right on the
» mark replies. Thank you.

Skywalker’s mind is jumbled, and – like so many people here – full of sloppy, erratic thinking, lazy thinking, and fraught with gaping logical holes and inconsistencies.

I will break them down for you later.

And Skywalker isn’t even the worst example here. Most of the other lazy, sloppy thinkers here are much worse than Skywalker, and many can’t even write a coherent sentence in the English language.

Ahab is one of the only people here who can think clearly and can write. Spanish Dude, although I don’t always agree with him, is another person who thinks clearly, expresses himself well, and tends to carefully observe the facts.

But the quality of posters on this forum has taken a HUGE nosedive within the past few years, and it’s now full of overeager, sloppy and lazy thinking nerds and poseurs, peddling erratic and hysterical ideas.

53

» » - then I have to ask the question previously asked (and not answered) in
» » this thread - why don’t all these people who repeatedly wax and resort
» to
» » multiple electrolysis procedures on the same hairs that they want to
» get
» » rid of just pluck them as you suggest ??? Are you claiming that there
» is a
» » special plucking technique that all these people are missing ???
» Allow
» » me to say that this is an extraordinary claim. As your constant and
» » reasonable request is for Autocloning to be backed up with documented
» » evidence please provide the documentation to prove that such plucking of
» a
» » hair means regrowth won’t happen - we will all be very keen to see it -
» as
» » will millions of women (plus some men :-)).
» »
» » Dr Cole says that there is no breakthrough with aCell because Drs
» Cooley
» » and Hitzig are getting the same inconsistent results planting plucked
» hairs
» » that people have always got. Dr Cooley has been testing this for 18
» » months and Dr Hitzig for much longer -so if Drs Cooley and Hitzig
» are
» » claiming with tainted aCell plucked hairs a 50-75% yield in the
» recipient
» » area when without aCell we know plucked hairs in the recipient area has
» a
» » yield of <10% - how can one interpret Dr Cole’s statement any other way
» » than that he is suggesting Drs Cooley and Hitzig are either idiots or
» liars
» » ??? Please explain how I am misunderstanding this position.
»
» There is a special plucking technique if you want the hair to grow
» when transplanted. What Dr. Cooley and Dr. Hitzig are doing is not simply
» akin to a woman plucking her eyebrow hair. You cannot simply pluck a hair,
» leaving the formative tissue behind, and expect it to grow elsewhere.
»
» When Dr. Cole started performing CIT/FUE, he knew within four months that
» the hair yield and healing were superior to strip. Within those four
» months, he went from offering 100% strip procedures to 90% FUE (and today
» 99% of his procedures are FUE). If this plucking procedure was such a
» viable option, (and these doctors truly believe in it) wouldn’t they be
» offering it almost exclusively 18+ months later? Why would they continue
» performing the more invasive and limiting strip procedures if they believed
» there was a better option out there- one that conserves the donor supply?

Emilie,

Can you explain this specialized technique for plucking? Do you or Dr. Cole actually know how Cooley is plucking each individual hair, or conducting his research or is this just opinion based?

I honestly do not mean to be rude, I’m just looking for answers and would like to engage in a mature discourse that could benefit this forum rather than arguing in a manner that doesn’t help anyone.

54

Roger_That,
I notice that you didn’t respond with any facts - just abuse.

By the way, I will ask you again, as you keep ignoring it from everybody who asks you - why are you here ? You claim that you have HUGE news that you won’t tell us so why are you even bothering with this stuff ???

55

» » Skywalker, you absolutely rock. Very thoughtful, penetrating, right on
» the
» » mark replies. Thank you.
»
» Skywalker’s mind is jumbled, and – like so many people here – full of
» sloppy, erratic thinking, lazy thinking, and fraught with gaping logical
» holes and inconsistencies.
»
» I will break them down for you later.
»
»
If I want something broken down for me I’ll ask. Meantime, why don’t you stop with all the babbling prattle. Other than you I doubt anyone else here is terribly impressed.
»
»

56

» Emilie,
» I can understand why you don’t answer some of my questions because
» I suspect there really is no palatable answer - but you talk about plucking
» hairs again - so I will ask the question AGAIN:
»
» When you say:
»
» Most importantly, any regrowth in the donor area is not well documented
» and, from Dr. Cole’s perspective, highly unlikely. When you remove almost
» all of the formative tissue around a follicle, the probability of re-growth
» is negligible.
»
» then what is it you know about plucking that THE ENTIRE WORLDWIDE
» DEPILATION INDUSTRY AND EVERYBODY ASSOCIATED WITH IT HAS FAILED TO GRASP
» FOR DECADES !!! It is amazing isn’t it how all these people and their
» millions of customers have been so stupid for so long :slight_smile:
»
» If this plucking procedure was such a viable option, (and these
» doctors truly believe in it) wouldn’t they be offering it almost
» exclusively 18+ months later? Why would they continue performing the more
» invasive and limiting strip procedures if they believed there was a better
» option out there- one that conserves the donor supply?
»
» I am assuming this is not a serious question - it takes TIME to
» experiment with a procedure as revolutionary as this, then wait for the
» results to grow and subsequently experiment in refining the procedure -
» please don’t tell me that was really a serious question. Even now they
» still need to do more tests to see if the hair will cycle and whether donor
» dominance is retained or not. If Dr Cole changed to 90% FUE within four
» months then I find that alarming, you cannot get any fully grown out
» results in 4 months.

Im also wondering where dr Cole got his info from regarding the “supposed” plucked scalp hairs being thinner than normal scalp hair. Im sure that Doctor Rassman or Doctor Bernstein would have heard about it and mentioned it in their analysis, but they have not heard of this yet.

It sound like to me that dr Cole is hiding something

57

» » » He has shown that plucked hairs often result in a finer hair
» diameter
» »
» » » with ACell treatment
» »
» » Might it be possible that if the plucked hairs are forming new
» follicles,
» » that those new follicles are behaving like the new follicles on the head
» of
» » a baby?
» ---------------
» roger_dead: “Highly doubtful. Just plucking a hair would not be enough to cause the
» genes in the cells to reset and revert almost to an embryonic or infantile
» state. To get that result, a bunch of genes would have to switched on,
» switched off, and modified, and that’s something that can’t happen from
» just the physical act of plucking. It happens at the chromosonal level.”

BTW - Chromosonal level?

roger_that, you shouldn’t use terms -neither in writing nor orally- 1) you neither understand 2) nor can’t write it correctly. :expressionless:

But I think, even so, I can’t see a reason for banning you from HairSite for that failure.

58

It has really helped to be around the forums going on 12 years now. I don’t quite understand the criticism of Dr. Woods. I don’t ever remember a doctor any doctor posting to the forums when they had a bht patient that failed to achieve growth. This includes the doctors that were doing mega sessions with bht. I know they were failures because I have had the opportunity to speak to those same patients. In fact one prominent doctor continues to use one of the same case’s that failed as a success case on his website. But you wouldn’t know that unless you knew the patient. As patients and prospective patients I think we can all understand sometimes things just don’t work out for whatever reason. It shouldn’t be held against anyone. It’s when the information is not revealed, that is the real problem. When only a few end up knowing the truth.

We know that some body hair and beard hair works very well. The ethical doctors were taking a very slow approach with bht and were just testing here and there to see what really worked well. They were not charging patients large sums of money for something that was still in its infancy.

What we see here is just a repeat of history. Of course we all hope it works as an endless donor supply would be the Holy Grail. But it’s still way too early, it needs more testing on a small scale with photographic evidence. Certainly not large 1500 hair sessions in which the results are unknown.

Kudos to those that are stepping forward and testing the procedures. Just like those that went for the mega bht sessions that failed, they are taking risks which benefits us all. They are the real heroes in all of this.

59

» It has really helped to be around the forums going on 12 years now. I don’t
» quite understand the criticism of Dr. Woods. I don’t ever remember a doctor
» any doctor posting to the forums when they had a bht patient that failed to
» achieve growth. This includes the doctors that were doing mega sessions
» with bht. I know they were failures because I have had the opportunity to
» speak to those same patients. In fact one prominent doctor continues to use
» one of the same case’s that failed as a success case on his website. But
» you wouldn’t know that unless you knew the patient. As patients and
» prospective patients I think we can all understand sometimes things just
» don’t work out for whatever reason. It shouldn’t be held against anyone.
» It’s when the information is not revealed, that is the real problem. When
» only a few end up knowing the truth.
»
» We know that some body hair and beard hair works very well. The ethical
» doctors were taking a very slow approach with bht and were just testing
» here and there to see what really worked well. They were not charging
» patients large sums of money for something that was still in its infancy.
»
» What we see here is just a repeat of history. Of course we all hope it
» works as an endless donor supply would be the Holy Grail. But it’s still
» way too early, it needs more testing on a small scale with photographic
» evidence. Certainly not large 1500 hair sessions in which the results are
» unknown.
»
» Kudos to those that are stepping forward and testing the procedures. Just
» like those that went for the mega bht sessions that failed, they are taking
» risks which benefits us all. They are the real heroes in all of this.

This should be the common standard, and i personally think that with this Acell findings a lot of surgeons are FORCED to investigate alternative methods :slight_smile:

Thats good for us but bad for lazy as_s surgeons who live in their " Fut till the end of days"-world

If i look back, i can say in the last 4 Years, there have been more breakthroughs in the field of HT and HM then ever before.

And yes we are less then 5 years away from a cure.

Or let me put it this way

“If anybody here thinks that there havent been any breakthroughs in the last 4 years, this person should clear their mind and speak up”

I bet nobody here will say anything cause its true.

And i bet even if some surgeons will test it themselves and see that this acell kind of thing works like a charm, they will bash and flame this just because they have to lower their PRICE TAGS due to other players.

The second where this autocloning has become the new standard, you will see an decrease in costs for ht in general.

But i dont wanna know how pissed all those FUT-Only docs are right now, awww man.

60

» » And I’m sick of hearing the lame excuse from people here that these
» » doctors aren’t going to find any slick bald
» volunteers who want to have
» » “patches” of hair on their heads.
»

2879_image616.jpg700×451 49.5 KB

» Source: http://talizi.ge/files/publication/viability_eng.pdf
»
» @Quato – As you can see, these Docs have to import such candidates from
» Transcaucasia!

wow, more of these excellent pics!!!

not a single serious pic!!!

hey silversurfer…how many accounts are allowed???:smiley: