DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for treating hair loss, baldness

I’m not scared of wounding myself at all as long as it’s not too deep.

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by Magneto_Amarendo[/postedby]
hey vraf,

if pilogics is safe in the meaning of patents and has nothing to worry about the competition, and the product will be out in a year, can you ask yoram when the first details will get public? i mean, setting up a website with basic information about the device, availability and so on. if yoram plans to start these steps within, let’s say the next 6 months, we could probably wait for it and don’t have to fire all these questions on you :slight_smile: it’s only hard for all of us if there is nothing out there to follow, and even have to treat this conversation like a secret… it’s like a phantom we are talking of :-)[/quote]

also: is the device aimed to rejuvenate existing hairs or to induce new hair at bald spots (like e.g. follica claims,by their wounding method, neogenesis)? or does rejuvenate AND induce follicle neogenesis as well?

  • Vraf, thanks for answering some of my questions. I do want to run one of these issues by you again worded differently because Roger_that has raised a similar issue and I would like you to see the issue he raised. Please open this link:

http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/forum_entry-id-125301-page-0-category-1-order-last_answer.html

  • Roger_that’s question comes from a different thread at this same site so our discussion is not being taken out of this site.

  • His question is similar to some of the issues I raised, which you said you can’t answer at this time. Could you please discuss with Yoram that some of us are concerned about the possibility that the Israeli regulators could prevent the treatment from being marketed if the treatment requires regulatory approval. I hope the treatment does not require regulatory approval because regulators can prevent a treatment from coming to market if a treatment that requires their approval in order to be marketed does not first get their approval.

  • But if a treatment is not very invasive or risky, regulatory agencies could ignore it for a long time. Even here in America where regulation is very tough, unapproved treatments sometimes get into the marketplace for years before regulators notice or care. Regulatory agencies have limited budgets and they can’t monitor and control everything.

  • Here’s a story about how it took the FDA decades to ban a drug that had been on the market for those decads:

  • Here’s another story about how there are thousands of treatments on the market that are unapproved. The FDA simply can’t keep up with all of it on it’s limited budget and manpower:
  • I agree that the number 1 issue is whether or not it works and if it’s safe, but I also hope they have a plan regards to the regulatory agency. Although I do understand that it could be marketed for years before a regulatory agency decided to start the process to remove it from the market.

*I read about a cellular-injection treatment called Isolagen to treat wrinkles. It was on the US market for 3 years before the FDA asked the company to consider doing FDA sanctioned clinical trials. The company agreed and took it off the market while the company processed clinical trials. The treatment is now back on the market. It’s called Laviv and it’s sold by Fibrocell. Like I said, they were marketing in the US for years as Isolagen until the FDA asked the company to do clinical trials. The FDA didn’t even order them to do the clinical trials, but if the company had declined the FDA’s request then the FDA would likely have considered ordering them to do the trials.

  • Also, if it will be available within a year is there any chance that some of us could get our hands on it sooner? If it is working for you then perhaps those of us who would be interested in trying it now could purchase it now or in the next few months. I’m sure some of us would be interested.

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by vraf[/postedby]
Hi Guys,

        Sorry or the delay with answers, I had to wait for Yoram answers.

Although Yoram gave answers to brunobald, he didn’t know it will be published and the restrictions about revealing the knowledge still exist.
You must understand guys that the Pilogics partnership did not want this story to be published till the product will be available for marketing.
They know that the word has already spread but they still want to keep most of the details in secret.
Therefore, I was asked, again, to be very restrict with the data and talk mostly on my personal experience.
Any issue, which will have the potential of revealing harmful data will receive no answer or be sent to Yoram for approval.

YOU ALL MUST TAKE MY ANSWERS IN LIMITS! I’M NOT PILOGICS REPRESENTATIVE NOR ANY OTHER FORMAL SPOKESMAN!
I was just given an approval to share some staff cause I want to give you hope and good filling as I, myself would have wanted to be treated like.

Please forgive my English, it’s not my mother language.
Please be patient with the speed of my posts since I’m making efforts to avoid English mistakes.

In the following, I will try, has much as I can, to tell you about my experience and some answers to your questions:

  1. I’m 43 YO, new in the bald staff. I believe, comparing to the Norwood scale, that I’m 3 vortex.
    Started using Rogaine 1.5 months before starting to use Piloxll.
    I quitted Rogaine 5 days before starting to use Piloxll.
  2. Before starting my trial, Yoram shaved 2 spots on my crown, marked them with under skin paint and pictured with a special microscopic camera. My hair was counted per stage (anagen etc.) and 4 days later I passed the same procedure. the trial started only after the second procedure.
  3. I’m using the Piloxll 3 times a day, 5 minutes on the crown and 5 minutes on the front. The protocol is only 5 minutes on all scalp 3 times a week. But… the more proven to be better.
  4. The device is very easy to use and can be used during lots of other activities like watching television.
  5. There are no side effects at all! Hundreds of trail users reported no side effects.
  6. The device is a very high-tech instrument. Since I’m in a trial, I have the latest prototype which has further functionalities like recording every treatment that I do and the feedbacks it receives from my scalp. This functionality will not be in market device. There are so many hidden technology in it so believe me, don’t try to replicate it, it’s a waste of time even trying to follow the patent will not help…
  7. Although I take picture of my scalp every few days, I’m not allowed to share them with you, yet. Maybe I will receive approval in the future, it’s in discussion. I can tell you that I see more thickness and even fuzzes in the front side which didn’t grow hair for years.

For some question you asked:

  1. Pilogics has nothing to do with Polica! Pilogics has an approved patent which its idea building blocks started many many years ago. In my opinion, they didn’t even know about them till they read about the comparison in the forums.
  2. “How many phases of studies are there in Israel?” – I’m not allowed to share this information.
  3. “Also, what phase study is the treatment in at this time?” - I’m not allowed to share this information.
  4. “And how much longer until it completes testing so we can purchase it?” -The current tests has nothing to do with marketing. The product will be out in a year. Maximum.
  5. “Also, is there a reason why he won’t sell the treatment now from a country that will allow him to do so?” - No one said that he is not allowed to sell right now. Selling is not pending only on regulation.
  6. “Why did they abandon Pillox 2, Pillox 3, and Pillox 4?” – They did not abandon, every product has a “Product developing evolution”.
  7. “Is he just now starting Pillox 5 and if he is do we have to wait years before it’s marketed and we can use it?” – In a year.

Sorry if I missed a question, you may keep posting questions and I promise to do my best to give you answers.[/quote]

Vraf thanx a lot for your answers. This is most exciting news to come for a long time.
I really believe in this product. The reason I believe in this product is because the people associated with it are credible people. I have two questions.

  1. The product that you are using now is it more advanced than the product that we saw the results from catalog from hairdressers?
  2. Can we buy the product now or do we have to wait? Some of us would have bought the product now if we could.
    Thanx for giving us hope again. If ti works the guy deserves a Nobel Prize.

Do you see vraf? Some people want to try it now. People’s lives are damaged by hair loss and so they want a way out of their awful situation.

also important: what about funding? could we accelerate things if we donate some money? there is often some talk about crowdfunding, also for hairloss topics. if this device is legit, this would be the right direction to donate. could pilogics need a kickstart with money to start producing and selling that device? or could we buy us more transparency with money, e.g. a group of backers which get early information and early access to the device? if yoram thinks that we could do something with money, he should let us know.

  • It’s not a good idea for you to promise $500 per bald person in exchange for information. You are making unnecessary offers to pay $500 each bald person for information even as the Israeli group is already being kind enough to share information.

  • There may be posters who would pay for the treatment now but please do not set any amount at $500 because vraf already stated that the treatment would be “very affordable” so perhaps it won’t cost that much.

*Sure we need to figure out if a few of us could try it but you should stop offering hundreds of thousands of dollars, millions of dollars, because you do not have that much money to pay, and you do not know anyone else would be willing to pay so much. Also, we first need to talk with vraf more to get a better idea of whether or not it works.

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by Magneto_Amarendo[/postedby]
also important: what about funding? could we accelerate things if we donate some money? there is often some talk about crowdfunding, also for hairloss topics. if this device is legit, this would be the right direction to donate. could pilogics need a kickstart with money to start producing and selling that device? or could we buy us more transparency with money, e.g. a group of backers which get early information and early access to the device? if yoram thinks that we could do something with money, he should let us know. there will come hundrets of thousand dollars together quicker as he can watch his bank account. i even think, a goal of 1 mio. would be reached so damn fast (e.g. 2000 baldies donate 500 bucks, and there we are). so money should really be no problem here, if there are already impressive (and proven) results with it. almost everybody would pay in advance. so what the f##k is stopping yoram to rule the hairloss world NOW? :-)[/quote]

lol

Of course we should also be discussing with vraf the possibility of a few of us getting the treatment soon to test for the whole site, but it’s too early to set an amount because we don’t know if the treatment works and we don’t know how much we can raise at this site. We have to keep this discussion within this site.

jarjar, keep cool. you’re overacting a lot here. my post about the crowdfunding won’t change anything. i wasn’t saying to pay for information only. it was about getting info and a prototype device a.s.a.p. maybe (before it hits the market) and only if there is provided some proof of concept and some results first.

let’s move on with the important questions and hope to get some news from vraf

Cool

vraf asked that we keep this discussion and the treatment confidential.

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by Magneto_Amarendo[/postedby]
jarjar, keep cool. you’re overacting a lot here. my post about the crowdfunding won’t change anything. i wasn’t saying to pay for information only. it was about getting info and a prototype device a.s.a.p. maybe (before it hits the market) and only if there is provided some proof of concept and some results first.
you’re talking about destroyed lives and put a lot of drama in your posts, as you would do anything for the device, but then are scared when it comes to donate a few bucks. ( no offense )

let’s move on with the important questions and hope to get some news from vraf[/quote]

man, i’ll keep it confidential and discrete. we all do. calm down. i also want this device to be real as anyone other.

so let’s wait for vraf with the next answers.

[quote] You should keep this discussion secret like we were advised to do. You should not say anything about this treatment, or this discussion, outside of this site.
[/quote]

Secret? This is a public forum that is crawled by any number of search engine bots. Nothing posted here is secret.

we mean: as confidential as it could be, in the world wide web. anyway: vraf has the permission of yoram already and questions which cannot be answered at this time will remain without an answer. so, it’s all ok here. we don’t reveal any secret details as long as yoram doesn’t allow to. i see no problem here at all. also, we cleared already that there is no patent trouble involved.

Cool bro. We are on the same team and we both want the same thing.

I did not ask this post to be confidential; nothing on the internet is confidential. I said that I will not be able to say everything that I know.

These are the questions I could give answers to without addressing Yoram. All other questions will be gathered into a list and sent to Yoram. I don’t want to annoy him multiple times so it will take some time to provide answers, if any.

  1. does the device wound the skin at all? ------ No
  2. does it hurt? ---- No
  3. is there a total redness afterwards or what? — No
  4. Do you think it would be easy to use for people with long or very curly hair? ---- Harder then then with short but possible.
  5. could help regrow hair on someone who has been bald on top for over 20 years. If you used the device 3 times a week for a year do they think it could help start to regrow hair? — I personally saw sample for one so I believe so.
  6. Also, if it will be available within a year is there any chance that some of us could get our hands on it sooner? — No
  7. The product that you are using now is it more advanced than the product that we saw the results from catalog from hairdressers? —Yes
  8. Can we buy the product now or do we have to wait? — Wait. Sorry.
  9. so what the f##k is stopping yoram to rule the hairloss world NOW? I don’t believe Yoram wants to rule the hairloss world, he is passionate to bring cure to baldness. That what drives him for decades.

It would appear that vraf does not care if this discussion stays confidential but there is no reason to take it outside of this site just the same.

Vraf is very clear that we can not get the treatment early. Since we can’t get the treatment early there is no point in doing any kind of global crowd-funding or Hairsite donations. It will become available when it becomes available.

We are going to have to wait.

But that is another good sign that this treatment is probably legit. Because if it weren’t legit they would probably be willing to start selling to people now before it is really time to start selling it. The fact that they are unwilling to release it early demonstrates that they’re serious about what they’re doing and that they want to make sure it’s effective before they release it to the public. It makes them seem professional and serious.

vraf, that’s great. no wounding at all.
i also had the thought that he must be a passionate researcher/doctor/developer or similar to bring this device out only if he gets good results first. for that reason we see, that he is trying to continuously improve the device (pilox5 version already). he’s focused more on quality than a big cashcow. this is a very good sign indeed.

one more question for your list: are there any chemicals involved which of we should worry about? is there any ingredient in it which could prevent the device from hitting the market in some countries?
as you already said, it could hit the market within a year maximum, i guess it shouldn’t be harmful at all.

one other question, which raises my personal interest: when did the pilox project start? how many years of development?

thx a lot

Thanks again for taking the time to respond and share. probably some of the best news to ever hit hairloss forums ever, and you’re breaking it.